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View Full Version : How many meters high to notice benefits of P47?



drose01
05-07-2005, 09:52 PM
How high do you have to be to feel the advantage of altitude of a P47 over, say, a Zero or earlier model 109s?

Are Ta 152s, P51s and other high flying specialists similar in their altitude parameters?

LuckyBoy1
05-07-2005, 10:09 PM
In this game or in real life?

BuzzU
05-07-2005, 10:13 PM
8000m and above, but it's kind of lonely up there.

Copperhead310th
05-07-2005, 10:14 PM
up high the Jug is KING!

only 1 plane in the entire sim that is even a problem for me up high and thats the TA-152.

as for how high do you need to be....

at least 20,000 to 25,000 feet.

and at 30,000 nothing can touch you.
period.

VW-IceFire
05-07-2005, 10:28 PM
I'd say above 7000m and better...by the time you're up there, the Jug is surpassing pretty much all others. I think by 9000 or 10000 meters the Jug is faster than the Mustang.

ImpStarDuece
05-07-2005, 10:31 PM
Against early 109s (up to G6, but not including G6/AS) the P-47 gains equality in speed at altitudes above 7000m. At 8000m there is usually only a 15-20 kph advantage. Climb and turn rate advantages don't really kick in until 7000-8000m or above.

If your up against a 109K4 (or a well flown G-10) the P-47 has no real speed or climb advantages. It turns slightly better at about 7000m or above 450kph, retains a little more energy in the thinner atmosphere, gains dive speed a little better, but is generally outclassed until 8000 where it has some VERY slight advantages in speed and rate of climb.

Against the 190 A serise the P-47 gains ascendency above 6000m, where it is generally faster, climbs better and turns inside the 190. Still, both are fairly well matched until you start pushing 7500m, where the P-47 is about 50 kph faster and can hold turns that will make the small winged 190 stall out.

The 190 D serise (long nose) is a different ball game. It will generally outrun the P-47 until 7500m, and there is little difference above that height for the P-47 to exploit. It will out turn the P-47 at almost all altitudes and speed regiemes, particularly if flaps are used (up to about 4-5 seconds in a 360 degree turn generally). I will also out accelerate the P-47, climbs better at all speeds and is generally a nusicance unless bounced. Even then you have to give it a lot of respect and make very few mistakes.

ImpStarDuece
05-07-2005, 10:42 PM
You can fly the P-47 at 5500m-6000m and be generally confident that you will come out about even with the enemy. If you are smart you can drag a 109 or 190 up 1000m or so to maximise your advantages.

Remember that when the P-47 first went into action with the 4th and 56th fighter groups in the ETO it had a 18,000 foot flight deck. Pilots were instructed not to fight below that altitude as the P-47 lost all the advantages it had over the smaller and genrally more nimble LW planes.

18,000 feet is about 5,300m. So if you want to see any advantages to the P-47 fly above this height. Also flying at this level will allow you to use the great structural strength and dive speed of the P-47 to escape a bad situation. In my personal tests the P-47 can survive dives and initiate pullouts that will destroy almost any other fighter. You can dive to roughly 800-900 indicated before the P-47 starts to shake itself to pieces. On the bounce I regularly fire at targets while at speeds of 750-800 kph.

Zacast
05-08-2005, 12:50 AM
Imp, I only recently started flying the Thunderbolt again but so far I've found that the only 109 that I can't outrun on the deck is that K4 or G-10. The G6s seem to get left in the dust for the most part but your advantage isn't very great.

ImpStarDuece
05-08-2005, 01:43 AM
Depends what Jug your in;

The D-10, which is the proper opponent for those mid to late 43 109s (G-6 early/late)maxes out at about 530-40 kph on the deck, with WEP and rads closed. It will do about 510-520 at 100% throttle.

A D-27 is about 30 kph faster at WEP on the deck and maybe 5-10 kph faster at 100%. Basically, a D-27 is level pegged with the 109G-10 at sealevel, falls slowly off until 7000m and then has a much higher critical altitude

The 109G-6s do about 520-525 with boost and 500-510 at 100% (add +5 Kph for the G-6late). The problem is that the 109 has superior acceleration from slow start, basically anywhere from 300 to 450kph. Because of its better aerodynamics and power to weight ratio the 109 will pull the Jug in until the speed starts to hit about 450-470kph, then the Jug will slowly pull away.

A G-6AS (which is more akin to a G-10) should have no problem catching a P-47, D-27 or otherwise. Their sea level 100% speeds are basically the same but the boost on the G-6 gives it a real advantage in acceleration and top speed. Its faster than the D-27 by maybe 20kph on the deck.