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XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 05:52 PM
Short test ->

109E7/Z, manual prop pitch control -> 2 secs @ 2800rpm -> CABOOOOOUSSSSSH.

Like I was afraid of, the patch 1.1 was the final minus K4's rudder and some other minor tuning.

In other words READ THE 1.1. BUG-LIST FOR FURTHER DEVELOPMENT REQUESTS.

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 05:52 PM
Short test ->

109E7/Z, manual prop pitch control -> 2 secs @ 2800rpm -> CABOOOOOUSSSSSH.

Like I was afraid of, the patch 1.1 was the final minus K4's rudder and some other minor tuning.

In other words READ THE 1.1. BUG-LIST FOR FURTHER DEVELOPMENT REQUESTS.

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 06:11 PM
i thought the older 109's had fixed props, i might be wrong /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 06:41 PM
Deathsledge wrote:
- i thought the older 109's had fixed props, i might
- be wrong

Emils had manual pitch at the beginning of war, but already in 1941 they all had been retrofitted with auto pitch controllers (or whatever that device is)

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 06:44 PM
2800rpm engine kaboom?

that's normal, as butch2k have already said elsewhere,

109E max rpm is 2500 for 30s... 2800 is over rev...

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XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 07:47 PM
The Bf109 Emil is an absolute dog at 2500 RPM. That may be the recommended engine speed in the manuals, but it is absolutely not competitive in the game (pre patches at least) where it matters.

Try this... run an offline mission using the plane, and put your plane on Auto. Then watch the RPM's. You'll see 2800 on Autopilot.

Then try actually flying it at 2500 and below.

Just an impartial observation, and it hardly matters as long as everybody has the same plane choices, but something is hosed if the plane was meant to fly at the lower RPM.

Again, that is how the plane performed before either patch, I'm waiting until the smoke clears before patching up. Flying FB right out of the box the Bf109E flew well offline only if you watched RPM's (kept it below 3000) and used a lot of prop control and throttle adjustments in battle.

Lots of fun, really, the plane was quite different from the others in the series, and the immersion was pretty good but frustrating if you screwed up. Not much of a fuel load either, 45 or 50 minutes and not much more, but again prop management was a big help in fuel mileage.

AK Duncan Doenitz

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 07:59 PM
Duncan_Doenitz wrote:
- The Bf109 Emil is an absolute dog at 2500 RPM. That
- may be the recommended engine speed in the manuals,
- but it is absolutely not competitive in the game
- (pre patches at least) where it matters.

I think the point people are trying to make is that it doesn't matter what RPM it can be pushed to, what matters is what the limit is.

Sure, you'll go faster and get more power at 2800RPM, but you're exceeding the limit of the engine and prop combination. Saying it's "an absolute dog at 2500 RPM" doesn't count for anything, you can't wish those mechanical limits away without consequences.

Many of the aircraft I fly have limits and restrictions placed on MP/RPM settings. It doesn't mean I'm physically unable to set those MP and RPM settings, it means that I shouldn't if I want my engine to continue running.

If the real aircraft was restricted to 2500 RPM at a given altitude, and someone's complaining that the engine will pop after X seconds when being run at 2800 RPM at that altitude, they really have no legs to stand on.

It's being run beyond approved limits, and as one of my instructors was fond of saying, do that and "You've just become a test pilot."

What's going to happen? Maybe we know, maybe we don't, but it's probably not going to be good.

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 08:03 PM
Tracks are still messed up. Totally messed up. In pre 1.11 track I was chasing someone else's plane and at least was firing in general direction of his a/c. In 1.11 the enemy plane simply vanished. He is not even there /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif 200MB of tracks down the drain...

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 08:13 PM
Yeah but we're not flying real planes.

At 2500 the Emil would be no match for its competitors, the I-16 and such. As I said, I hardly care. But the matchup in the game should be right.

I bet if performance tests (sorry, beyond my skills) were run flying at 2500 RPM they would fall way below the plane's actual specs and that has to mean something. And I would also guess that's why the Autopilot flies the plane at 2800 RPM. If I remember the tests run by others when FB first came out, the issues were about just how far you could throttle up the planes, 103% or whatever, not an RPM issue, but cutting back form 3000 or 2800 is a huge drop.

Now, if the other planes have their characteristics reduced in a similar manner, fine. Or if the Bf109 Emil was too hot prior to patching, well maybe it makes sense, but I don't recall that plane being singled out.

But I'm no expert of course, I just enjoy FB so I'll fly whatever is offered.

But I'll ask again, have you actually TRIED the plane at 2500? That's what counts, not just the specs. If the actual flight characteristics don't match, something is hosed.

AK Duncan Doenitz

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 08:24 PM
Patch must be pretty good if all we can nit pick about is the difference between 2500 and 2800 rpm of a airplane http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 08:26 PM
Tracks never transfer from version to version.

Erbriac wrote:
- Tracks are still messed up. Totally messed up. In
- pre 1.11 track I was chasing someone else's plane
- and at least was firing in general direction of his
- a/c. In 1.11 the enemy plane simply vanished. He is
- not even there /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif 200MB of tracks down the
- drain...
-
-



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XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 09:21 PM
Duncan_Doenitz wrote:

- Now, if the other planes have their characteristics
- reduced in a similar manner, fine. Or if the Bf109
- Emil was too hot prior to patching, well maybe it
- makes sense, but I don't recall that plane being
- singled out.


Prior to all the patching the E4 climbed like the K4. It was indeed too hot. It got toned down after 1.1b but it still IMHO held it's own in early war scenarios. Flew a VEF mission with Emils escorting He-111s and they were attacked by IL2s and I-153s and we managed to do pretty well against even the Tchiakas. I haven't tried it much in the 1.1 patch and haven't DLed the 1.11 yet but I'd bet that in early war servers if you stay on constant speed prop you'll do okay.

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 09:41 PM
Don't throw away patches.

Install FB on another drive or location - patch to previous version they worked ok on and play tracks and re-save them as NTRK's.

NTRKs will play on ANY patched version ok.



Mark

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 09:58 PM
109Es aren't very competitive with most mid/late war aircraft, hence the F,G, and K. Now if ya can't turn with an I16 that's correct, now if ya can't outrun or out climb an I16 sumthuns screwed.



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XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 12:23 AM
Using =RU=Youss's excellent IL2COMPARE program, I find that the 109G2 has almost exactly the same turn rate as the F2 and F4, but turns much faster than the G6.
The G2 also outturns the Yak1b at every speed.

That is incorrect modelling, the G2 should turn about the same as the G6, and should not be as manueverable as the F series. And... there is no way it should outturn the Yak1b.

Don't know if you can call that a bug, i'd say it's just a screwup. Hope it gets corrected in Patch # 1.2?

Budanova

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 12:32 AM
Correction: The Yak1b has a very small turn advantage (1/2 second?) over the 109G2 at all speeds with no flaps. With combat flaps, the 109G2 is very close in turn rate to the Yak1b at lower speeds,(under 250) and has a good advantage at higher speeds (where the controls should be getting stiff in a 109?)

In any case, the G2 is turning better than it should.

Budanova

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 12:42 AM
Recon_609IAP wrote:
- Patch must be pretty good if all we can nit pick
- about is the difference between 2500 and 2800 rpm of
- a airplane http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Well i have noticed that even with 1.11maybyright that i still cant get into the Pe-8's C/P.

I cant bleave no one has noticed this.

Any sugestions?

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 01:52 AM
The G-2 should be closer to to the F4 than what we have for a G6. The G2 might be a fraction too good in turns, but, the problem is the G6 is hosed in FB.

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 02:37 AM
Budanova wrote:
- Using =RU=Youss's excellent IL2COMPARE program, I
- find that the 109G2 has almost exactly the same turn
- rate as the F2 and F4, but turns much faster than
- the G6.
- The G2 also outturns the Yak1b at every speed.
-
- That is incorrect modelling, the G2 should turn
- about the same as the G6, and should not be as
- manueverable as the F series. And... there is no way
- it should outturn the Yak1b.
-
- Don't know if you can call that a bug, i'd say it's
- just a screwup. Hope it gets corrected in Patch #
- 1.2?
-
- Budanova
-
-


Where can I get the IL2 Compair program? I assume it works in FB?

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XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 03:22 AM
http://m0m.s22.xrea.com/images/bug_il-2_01.jpg


This is not repaired yet.

Does the manufacture team check the BUG reports perfectly?

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 03:26 AM
Well I have not had the chance to try out many planes since upgrading to the 1.11 patch. But what I did notice is that I lost all sound out the front of my plane. I have great sound if I look left or right. Also if a plane pulls up on my wing I can hear them better than my own engine. Does antone have a fix for this?

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XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 04:34 AM
pe-2 engines still too resistant to machine gun fire

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 04:55 AM
RAF_Bulldog wrote:
- Well I have not had the chance to try out many
- planes since upgrading to the 1.11 patch. But what I
- did notice is that I lost all sound out the front of
- my plane. I have great sound if I look left or
- right. Also if a plane pulls up on my wing I can
- hear them better than my own engine. Does antone
- have a fix for this?


I to had this, what worked for me was to toggle "reverse Stereo" in the hardware, sound, audio setup. Hope it works for you.

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 04:59 AM
Dynamic campaign still has all the errors I've pointed out in countless other threads.

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 05:13 AM
Salute Porta

My suggestion is that you test the I-16's.

My own personal seat of the pants impression is that they are too fast and climb too well.

I don't have the sources to confirm that right now, but I believe they can be found in:

"Soviet Combat Aircraft of the Second World War: Single-Engined Fighters"
by Yefim Gordon, Dmitri Khazanov

This book is readily available on Ebay and from publishers.


RAF74 Buzzsaw

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 09:07 AM
Panning in cockpit view on the G2, K4 (tested) and probably all other 109s in maximum FOV (Page Down) causes a clipping problem at the wing roots: you can see the ground through them.

Jet

Zayets
09-09-2003, 09:16 AM
JetStream100 wrote:
- Panning in cockpit view on the G2, K4 (tested) and
- probably all other 109s in maximum FOV (Page Down)
- causes a clipping problem at the wing roots: you can
- see the ground through them.
-
- Jet
-
-


This was present in the original IL2 as well. You can see it mostly in the FW series (that was the plane I was flying though). Dunno if is corrected now.

Zayets out

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XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 09:27 AM
No Text

Message Edited on 09/09/0301:39AM by xTHRUDx

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 09:53 AM
S! Buzz and all, these figures are from the above source;

I16 M-63 (type 24)

273mph (440km/h) at sea level
303mph (489km/h) at 15750ft (4800m)
Climb to 16400ft (5000m) at full throttle 5.2min
Ceiling of 35500ft (10800m)


I16 M-62 (type 18)

255mph (411km/h) at sea level
288mph (464km/h) at 14500ft (4400m)
Climb as above at take-off power.

hope this helps.

WTE_Mauler. S!

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 11:47 AM
According to Youss's IL2Compare:

i16-24 is better in climbing, top speed and turning than the Finnish Brewster. That is still incorrect in the patch. The Brewster was faster and slightly better climber, not better turner though. This is one issue that needs fixing.

Another is the ammo load in F-G series. Still too few 20mm rounds in the planes. Corrrect amount is 200.

G6 should indeed be closer to G2, but not by downgrading G2. G2 is as it should be but G6 was quite similar.

Further, if the development team has intentions for further FM/DM alternations, update the LaGG-series.

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 01:59 PM
The sound problems do not seem any better (maybe even worse in some respects) as before the patch other than the fact that I can now enable "hardware extensions" without bottoming out my frame reates.

Other than the very loud sounds coming from other aircraft that so many others have reported, I still experience changing sound conditions. For example, I'm hearing my guns fine and then all of a sudden I can barely hear them. Sometimes I don't hear the bullets hitting my plane, just see the bullet holes in my cockpit. At other times I hear them fine. Very inconsistent.

I keep trying all the possible settings (22K, 44K, no ext, ext) all of which have various sorts of sound problems.

===
-mark
Bo.Deenamah

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 02:25 PM
Hi guys

Instead of arguing that the G2 turns better than the G6 and so on /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif , it seem to me that two important bugs require more attention /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

1. Sound Bugs

snomhf wrote:
- The sound problems do not seem any better (maybe
- even worse in some respects) as before the patch
- other than the fact that I can now enable "hardware
- extensions" without bottoming out my frame reates.
-
- Other than the very loud sounds coming from other
- aircraft that so many others have reported, I still
- experience changing sound conditions. For example,
- I'm hearing my guns fine and then all of a sudden I
- can barely hear them. Sometimes I don't hear the
- bullets hitting my plane, just see the bullet holes
- in my cockpit. At other times I hear them fine.
- Very inconsistent.
-
- I keep trying all the possible settings (22K, 44K,
- no ext, ext) all of which have various sorts of
- sound problems.
-
2. Trak Bugs (important to all the people who love to make movies...myself included /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Mark are you sure that NTRK recorded in the Pre-patch version work into the Patched 1.11. (i don't want to throw away 300 Mb of cool memories /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )



Good flight to you !

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XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 02:46 PM
Hmmm maybe its only me but K4 rudder trimm seems not working .

Anyone else ?

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 03:16 PM
Hope you guys swatting bugs in the patch also spotted the bug
in the patches downloads. One file update is missing unless you
use the patch11_full.exe. You might think you are on latest
release when you are not.

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XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 05:40 PM
1. Can't hear the right engine of the Me-262 at all unless I look out over the right wing using views.

2. Damage model of the PE-2 too tough, engines can't be damaged by anything less than nuclear blast.

3. Me-262 does not gather speed well in a dive, takes forever to build speed pointed downwards, even full throttle.

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