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View Full Version : Any NON-Tank Rush Strategies?



Ghoullio
09-18-2010, 07:10 PM
So I have been over a lot of different forums for this game and the consensus is that a tank rush is the only way to beat your enemy.

Fine.

I'm figuring, however, that there are other and funner strategies out there that don't rely on storming your opponents base with a dozen Shermans 15 minutes into the game...

I used to play Magic the Gathering and the clowns who rely on the Tank Rush remind me of the guys who pay a ton of money for the better cards and copy someone else's deck off of a website. Yeah, you win and yeah, you feel cool and all, but you aren't original. I played this game to have fun and I know that there are people out there who agree with me on this.

So let's get this started. Do any of you abhor the tank rush? Do you like a long drawn out campaign of attrition or do you like a quick bloody end ASAP so you can PWN the next guy in line? If you had to rely on another unit besides the armored ones, which would you choose? Do you like to try different elements and different strategies when you play?

dan-1993uk
09-18-2010, 09:23 PM
well i put up defences first off anti tank and anti air then i build tanks and arty and a recon they often attack me and fail so i build up a full force of about 5 arty around 5 tank destroyers and remaining med tanks i use a recon to spot all of thier defences and bombard them out of the way then full charge and steam roller there base.

XxCrashdownxX
09-18-2010, 09:56 PM
After tonights ranked 1v1's I think im done playing them to be honest.Im in the low 20's on the leaderboard but thats probably gonna change soon.

I lost nearly every match due to tank rushes.I can beat the rush.It causes me to invest in tanks or anti tank, then by the time I counter attack I run into solid AA and AT defence.

Next my opponent hits me with arty that sits behind a wall of defences, so my opponent can sit behind the wall until the time runs out for the minor victory.

Nobody attacks anymore.People are playing all out defence and arty.I keep running into situations where I cant for the life of me see a way to break them and win.

Im stuck playing the same 5 or 6 players over and over cause so few people bought the game.They all are playing the same way because they seem to have no choice.

If a match finishes at less then 1000 points on the board then its a crap game in my opinion.

2v2 is the way to go from now on I think.

Ghoullio
09-18-2010, 11:43 PM
See, now THATS strategy right there. Not a bad idea. I never found a use for the feints...

k20a2_power
09-19-2010, 02:31 AM
i go with with 6+ tiger/king tigers, 1-2 armore AA, armored recon, and 1-2 armored assault guns.

that is the perfect group to assult with, every unit is needed for it to be effective so dont make a push untill yoou have them all. many people underestimate the usefullness of the assult gun as did i when i first started playiing ruse. its the perfect counter(when paired with recon) to dug in infantry and AT units that may be hidden in the woods and quickly kills them all from a safe distance making it safe to push foward with your tanks.

when you see your units are about to get into a battle the tanks should form the front line with the recon slightly behind them, then a bit further back the armored AA and armored assault guns. move your army foward trying to keep them in this formation as best as you can with the units close enough for all them to be under the umbrella of you mobile AA.

i much rather perfer using all armored units because an unarmored recon, assult gun, or mobile AA are all to easy a target to take out with arty if your not paying close attention and it forces you to waste ruses to keep them alive. if the entire battle force is armored you can endure an hour of arty fire without a single lose LOL.

btw i play as germany

GunnersMate07
09-19-2010, 06:50 AM
There are plenty of ways to win without big tank zerging armies. Hell big tank zerging armies are easy as hell to beat because you only need 1-2 counters (upgraded AT and fighter-bombers for good measure).

That being said, I dont see how you can really be effective at harrassment without at least 1-2 light tanks. I will often send just one light tank towards a flank or far off supply depot to get the enemy to react to it disproportionally (ie the light tank cost me 10, and he needs to either send more than 10 units worth of counters to stop my light tank on the flank, or build a 20 unit defensive building of some sort on the edge of the map that will be effectively wasted). Depending on the faction, the only other unit that can provide the same threat/speed to harrass flanks like this are some of the upgraded recons (ex: the upgraded british recon is better then generic medium tanks, and is super fast for armor).

But if its rushing you are looking for, there really is no other unit class that can do the same things tanks can except air of course. All the towed units are simply to slow to get into position. And even worse you will not get kills with towed units because a competent player will see them with recon and will move vulnerable units out of range way before your towed units plod along and become a threat. Tanks and certain armored recon can at least give chase.

Infantry though plays a huge role for me at least, especially in the opening minutes of the game. They are somewhat map specific (infantry suck on maps like frontline, which is an awful map regardless, but they thrive on maps with lots of cities like blitz or tank grave yard). Upgrade infantry early if there are many cities on the map (depending on your faction), and try to use the opening minutes to seed infantry all over the map to try and control every city/good chokepoint forest that you can. They will make it much more difficult for an opponent to safely navigate around the map, can aid on future assaults, and are pretty much invulnerable from anything except a larger infantry stack, or the opponent grabbing air recon. (If you use lots of infantry like this early, prepare to get a relatively early airport of your own to produce fighters and control the sky, thus protecting your infantry in cities).

GunnersMate07
09-19-2010, 07:16 AM
I should also add if its more variety in the game you are looking for, then definitely switch between all the different factions. Its amazing how differently they all play (and yet still seem balanced). A game as italians is completely different than a game as germans, and while the unit classes stay relatively the same, you will find that the build orders and opening strategies are night and day different.

Wartactics
09-19-2010, 08:19 AM
I'm no expert at this game and usually only play against the AI. I like to build about 3-4 bombers kind of early in the game if they have no air support and send them in to harrass depots and anything else exposed.

XxCrashdownxX
09-19-2010, 11:25 AM
The problem is that when someone has the lead, even if its 100 points on the the board, they want to accept the matches efforts as over...and sit behind a line until the time runs out.

Usually when im winning I just keep going and try to have some interesting battles of reaction, and countering.I think if I want to keep playing 1v1 I will have to just play as cheap as possible.I can build a wall around my base too.Ill score a few points and then retreat to it...waiting for the clock to win for me.

Some people I play dont do this.But I mostly play the same people over and over.

I still love this damn game despite the frustration though.I will keep trying to improve.I dont understand how im so high up on the LB if im having trouble with breaking through defences like that.

GunnersMate07
09-19-2010, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by XxCrashdownxX:
The problem is that when someone has the lead, even if its 100 points on the the board, they want to accept the matches efforts as over...and sit behind a line until the time runs out.

Usually when im winning I just keep going and try to have some interesting battles of reaction, and countering.I think if I want to keep playing 1v1 I will have to just play as cheap as possible.I can build a wall around my base too.Ill score a few points and then retreat to it...waiting for the clock to win for me.

Some people I play dont do this.But I mostly play the same people over and over.

I still love this damn game despite the frustration though.I will keep trying to improve.I dont understand how im so high up on the LB if im having trouble with breaking through defences like that.

The key against a player that wants to turtle behind defenses is simply lots and lots of artillery. I hate arty fests, but against a player that wants to turtle its really the only effective option.

That being said, a player who wants to sit back behind walls of defenses should be a guaranteed zero effort total victory. He is giving you full map control (and therefore you will be able to build whatever the hell you want because he is sitting back and giving you the majority of depots without a fight). Obviously do not attack him with ground forces, or AA if he has any AA to go with his bunkers/AT wall. You can always try a heavy bomber+recon attack on his actual base (just fly all your planes around the edges of the map, but be sure after they drop their bombs that you manually fly them back around again to avoid the AA).

But by far the easiest option is to spend everything you have on arty. Get some air recon so that you can easily arty any good arty targets (infantry + towed AT/AA guns). And definitely take down any defensive buildings. After a few minutes of heavy Arty pounding, you might be able to soften up a turtler to follow up with a ground/air assault. Or you can safely stay back and arty away till the timer runs out.

Arty fests are obviously boring affairs. But by turtling, your opponent will definitely be purchasing units/buildings that are best countered by arty. And as long as you keep a force that is more mobile and has armor (mobile AA, mobile AT, tanks, infantry in cities), and combine it with camo nets on all your vulnerable depots/forward buildings, you will be effectively invulnerable to his arty while you easily cruise to total victory.

And I should also add always look for targets of opportunity against a turtling opponent. When you realize that he has lots of towed AA/AT and defensive buildings, switch to resource booming mode and get up as many depots as you safely can, and depending on the map even an admin building or two if its not a resource rich map. At this point, you will want to focus on your faction's artillery options, but also an airfield for air recon, and fighter-bombers for targets of opportunity. I cannot count how many times I have gone against a turtler who tries to hunker down behind defensive fortifications, but then has 3 priests that are just outside of his AA umbrella. Queue quick fighter bomber strike combined with recon that all hit at once, +105 later. This quick multiple fighter bomber strike also works well against mobile AA if he has less then or equal to the number of fighter bombers you have (ie if you have 3 fighter bombers, and he has 3 mobile AA, have all 3 fighter bombers strike at once and individually target each AA while the planes are en route). If you time it right, you will not lose a single plane, he will lose all his ground-based AA and will rush to build many more, and if your planes are quick enough to rearm you can probably get another strike in on any tanks that are now in a forward position and undefended.

XxCrashdownxX
09-19-2010, 05:03 PM
Good post.The problem is I already know this stuff but still get beaten.

Im at the stage where I can barely compete in 1v1.Theres less then 2000 people playing.In my league I keep playing the same people, who are clearly getting better than me with each day.

Im thinking its gonna be something like Endwar, where the only people playing are the hardcore few.I play casually but its not fun to lose 4 out of every 5 matches.If you play call of duty for instance, you will always be able to get a few kills whether you are good or not.You get some fun out of every match.This game is about winning...or at least having a close match.If you cant spend hours honing your skills you will be squashed by the guy with the big bag of Doritos.

I lost 2 out of 3 matches just now...same guy each time.These matches were about tank rushing.I got about 200 points for the 2 losses, the win was by sitting behind my own wall of defences...which was a crappy win tbh.I really cant handle the stress levels the 1v1 brings out in me.I think ill just stick to single player and 2v2.Im gonna try 1 more 1v1 now and see if its a fun match. *crosses fingers*.

Anyway cheers for the help.

*update* Yeah I got tank/infantry rushed before I had my stuff ready.Time to stop playing ranked.

k20a2_power
09-20-2010, 01:37 AM
Originally posted by XxCrashdownxX:
Good post.The problem is I already know this stuff but still get beaten.

Im at the stage where I can barely compete in 1v1.Theres less then 2000 people playing.In my league I keep playing the same people, who are clearly getting better than me with each day.

Im thinking its gonna be something like Endwar, where the only people playing are the hardcore few.I play casually but its not fun to lose 4 out of every 5 matches.If you play call of duty for instance, you will always be able to get a few kills whether you are good or not.You get some fun out of every match.This game is about winning...or at least having a close match.If you cant spend hours honing your skills you will be squashed by the guy with the big bag of Doritos.

I lost 2 out of 3 matches just now...same guy each time.These matches were about tank rushing.I got about 200 points for the 2 losses, the win was by sitting behind my own wall of defences...which was a crappy win tbh.I really cant handle the stress levels the 1v1 brings out in me.I think ill just stick to single player and 2v2.Im gonna try 1 more 1v1 now and see if its a fun match. *crosses fingers*.

Anyway cheers for the help.

*update* Yeah I got tank/infantry rushed before I had my stuff ready.Time to stop playing ranked.

crashdown i dont know if you saw my earlier post but if not go take a look. first off what faction do you play as? keep in mind my advice comes to you from a german players view point.

i dont really agree that using arty is the best way to deal with a turtler as simple camo nets can shut down your whole arty strategy. and being you get 1 ruse a minute and camo nets last 4 minutes they can easily keep their entire base under camo for the whole match. then add into the fact that for arty to be effective and kill something quickly you are going to need alot of them or be prepaired to wait. meanwhile 1-2 armored assult guns are far cheaper and armored from enemy arty fire and such. they have a shorter range but quickly kill anything (unarmored)that does get within its reach. and simply having that assult gun with your tanks multiplies your armored divisions effectiveness because they will no longer be held up by anti tank or infantry thats in hiding.

assult guns > arty if you know how to use them right.

Axe99
09-20-2010, 03:26 AM
Aye, I've only played 9 1v1 ranked games so far, but when I have a 'turtler', I've been able to get around it, either using a mix of arty and a mixed stack of tanks (to deal with infantry), mobile AT (to deal with tanks), Arty (to deal with enemy AT) and mobile AA and Armoured recon (so I can see any hidden AT/infantry in forests). Another option that worked is a flanking attack with a smallish tank stack, under cover of RUSEs and a recon plane (to make sure there's nothing waiting for it)

GunnersMate07
09-20-2010, 10:34 AM
Assault guns are arty. They basically have all the same stats as arty with shorter range and slightly more armor. And camo net is easily countered with good recon.

ElderForest
09-20-2010, 02:13 PM
A couple of articles here that might be of interest on this subject:

http://www.sound-strategy.net/...ushing-shall-we.html (http://www.sound-strategy.net/tales-of-deception/2010/3/14/lets-talk-about-rushing-shall-we.html)

http://www.sound-strategy.net/...e-fight-to-them.html (http://www.sound-strategy.net/tales-of-deception/2010/3/14/being-more-aggressive-take-the-fight-to-them.html)

KILLER-ST
09-21-2010, 09:06 AM
I had 2 interesting 2v2 games last night the first was were the opposing team seemed to get aircraft up and running continual bombing runs right down the centre of the map. so both me and my team mate spent 60percent of the game deploying antiair guns artillery and rebuilding destroyed fortifications. the blitz finally decimated my team mate and me. the match was over fast and i didnt seem to have an answer to the bombardment full match was spent on defence not through choice. So an anti aircaft stratedgy is what i need if anyone can help.
The 2nd match lasted the full hour and was against a good alround player who used everything. i was down to 2 units of soldiers hidden in the woods at 1point waiting for the resources to get a few more men the Battle was really already lost but i didnt surrender i flew in a few parachutists under camoflage and captured his airfield hq and barracks in the last 2minits of the game. just for a few extra points unbelivable thing was he then surrendered even tho he was winning and had played the full match he gave me the win because i didnt surrender so it pays not to give up at the 1st sign of losing a match.

MAZIO89
09-21-2010, 10:01 AM
yea man i hate people like that, i was in a game a minute ago i was france against germany on stronghold (not my best map)it was a stalemate for bout 10 mins (which is bad for me i know) then he came at me with a armoured recon and bout 5 king tigers with bout 10 others tanks, i couldnt cope he took out somre defences and most of my tanks my anti-tanks in ambush couldnt do anything cos the recon, by this time he was quite ahead in points, so i got some guppy's and took out the recon then the tanks with help from anti. he then comes at me with planes so i lead them to my hidden anti-air, he was still bout 200 or so points ahead with bout 8 mins left but he surrendered it realy annoyed me. ive won a couple of games in last minute your right its not over till the last second. soz for long message lol