PDA

View Full Version : How good are your eyes...



McHilt
04-12-2009, 04:12 AM
assuming you play full switch mode:
what's your level of identifying planes that are way ahead of you?... not knowing you're dealing with friend or foe

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e35/Aukieboy/Guess.jpg

Ok fire away on this one.
(of course it's easier when playing as the a/c turns, but anyway give it a shot http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

It's nice to see that over the years you're getting good at spotting planes and know what you're dealing with. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

RPMcMurphy
04-12-2009, 04:20 AM
I want to say its a P-40, or an La-7, and somhting says B5-N, but I would go in for a better look before firing. No doubt, need to get closer.

And then agin, I am fubar on beer right now.

DuxCorvan
04-12-2009, 04:24 AM
That's obviously a Lavochkin. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Sana_HvJ
04-12-2009, 04:35 AM
the left one looks like a La to me ... La-7 to be precise because i don't see the air intake above the engine.
the right one however looks more like a in-line engined fighter but i can't quite match the tail with the rest of the ac ... looks like a 109F+ / La-5+ crossover

good thing RL doesn't come in pixel resolution :P

DKoor
04-12-2009, 04:36 AM
109s. Curvy fuselage, tail.

Uufflakke
04-12-2009, 04:37 AM
I just happened to see this German saying in another thread:

"When identifying aircraft rely on the following.
If it is painted in camouflage - it is British.
If it is unpainted - it is American.
If it is invisible, then it is one of ours! (I.E. Luftwaffe.)"

Oh, but to answer your question: I think it is a Messie 109.

arthursmedley
04-12-2009, 04:38 AM
Looks like two 109's to me. Then again, my eyes ain't what they used to be.

They used to be my ears http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

knightflyte
04-12-2009, 05:03 AM
I'm thinking 109 too. The rear elevator stabiliser seems to ride high like the 109s.

The cockpit of the right one seems to be late model 109. Seems to be a 'taper' going forward to the nose.

I can clearly make out the 109s intake just above and forward of the wing. (okay.... kidding about the last part)


La something being chased by a 109.

Jure_502
04-12-2009, 05:03 AM
I'm 98% sure that's a pair of 109.

Erkki_M
04-12-2009, 05:43 AM
A pair of 109s. I'm not 100% sure but probably 2 Bf109G10s or G14s in winter camo.

Insuber
04-12-2009, 05:45 AM
I'd say 109 too, but it seems too easy. I'd add then the Ki-61 Hien. We have one important piece of info missing here: which year and theater ? I'm sure a real pilot would know it ...

Happy easter to all ...

Ins

Feathered_IV
04-12-2009, 06:29 AM
I'd say 109 too. You can ID friend/foe also by their movements. In online play you can often tell what is what by the way they fly in a given area. For example, a friendly in your own territory acts a lot differently to an inbound hostile. You can often spot the difference when they are still a dot, just by the way they fly.

zunzun
04-12-2009, 06:39 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
109s. Curvy fuselage, tail.

I agree that

Schutze_S
04-12-2009, 06:40 AM
The one on the right could be a YAK-3 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Choctaw111
04-12-2009, 06:49 AM
Which is why I do an ID pass before shooting unless I've seen the gunfire from it first. You can always tell by the gunfire.

Sana_HvJ
04-12-2009, 06:51 AM
Originally posted by Schutze_S:
The one on the right could be a YAK-3 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>yak3
http://sites.estvideo.net/airshow-hague/airshow/histoires/profil2.jpeg

i disagree, notice that in profile the fu****e of the yak3 has a almost straight upper line from the prop to the tail with the canopy sticking out of it.

but on that right ac the opper fu****e line above the engine slopes down towards the prop and the tail section starts at the same hight as the canopy and then dropps towards the fin - much like the Bf-109

bf109f
http://www.jg54greenhearts.com/Bf109F_Left_Hans-Ekkehard%20Bob%20Yellow-1%209207_thm.jpg

*sorry for the messed up text alignment, can't figure it out right now*[/list]

danjama
04-12-2009, 07:14 AM
The one on the right is definitely a 109, the one on the left is a bit harder, but looks similar to a 109 as well. So i will say a pair of 109's.

na85
04-12-2009, 07:29 AM
The one on the right is definitely a 109.

At first I thought the other one was as well, but based on their geometry and a couple of other things, I want to say it's a yak.

K_Freddie
04-12-2009, 07:47 AM
I haven't got my glasses with me but the right one looks like a FW190A (stubby nose and fuselage angle from Pit to Tail), then I assume he's chasing one of your mates in a yak or LA - the large tail section.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Edt: Have my 'goggles' now... FW190 following a ME109

VW-IceFire
04-12-2009, 07:56 AM
Both look like 109s to me.

Airmail109
04-12-2009, 08:01 AM
Left = P-39

Right = BF-109

alphalvr
04-12-2009, 08:02 AM
i lack experience and only play with a handful of fighters and i can see some 109`ness in the 2nd one(close)

the 1st 1 is much to far away (for me) and its sat still, moving might be a tiny whiney bit easier

but to be honest i cant even be certain the `nearest one` aint my wingman tbh, so ill have to go `wep` stage 2 for a sec http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

ppontius
04-12-2009, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
Left = P-39

Right = BF-109
Looking at the shapeI thought the same.
Altough the left fighter seems to have a yellow band around fuselage?
But I stay with P-39 and Bf109.

slipBall
04-12-2009, 09:05 AM
Boy those Lerche's are a pretty sight http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

crucislancer
04-12-2009, 09:11 AM
Both are 109s, to my lousy eyes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

mortoma
04-12-2009, 09:20 AM
Icons are my eyes. One of the reasons I play mostly offline is because I can have icons all the time. In a game like this, even with the highest resolution and the best graphics card you simply can't identify an aircraft as well as you could in real life. At the simulated speeds you fly in a W.W.II sim, identifying an enemy needs to be done as far away as possible.
Flying online I've had many situations come up where I got my butt handed to me because of identification issues. Because there were no icons to equalize the problem.

In real world flying I could tell a Piper Warrior from an older Cherokee ( wings are different ) from two miles away but in either MSFS or X-plane fugeddaboudit. Maybe I could distinguish between the two at a simulated 1/4 mile or so. And that's a liberal estimation.

alphalvr
04-12-2009, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by ppontius:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:
Left = P-39

Right = BF-109
Looking at the shapeI thought the same.
Altough the left fighter seems to have a yellow band around fuselage?
But I stay with P-39 and Bf109. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i too saw the yellow band making me think `nazi` but, with with the small number of planes im familiar with, and then the even smaller number of skins, it cud still be my wingman having gotten to close to to a tree and is carrying the remnants of a bird nest egg on his fuselage http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Airmail109
04-12-2009, 10:05 AM
http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Holloman2005/Highlights/P39.jpg

Anyway in this scenario I'd whack that BF-109 at the rear from up close, hopefully giving me a chance to ID the aircraft in front more easily.

DKoor
04-12-2009, 10:29 AM
Maybe so but I never ever saw an American Cobra & LA-5/7 on the same maphttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.
Also I doubt that you will find many Soviet Cobras with yellow bands, if any.
Personally I never ever saw such P-39 VVS camo, for a good reason if I may addhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif.

Airmail109
04-12-2009, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
Maybe so but I never ever saw an American Cobra & LA-5/7 on the same maphttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.
Also I doubt that you will find many Soviet Cobras with yellow bands, if any.
Personally I never ever saw such VVS camo, for a good reason if I may addhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif.

Quite a few of the servers allow custom skins. The guy could have easily forgotten to switch to a Russian skin or didn't want to.

I used to select comedy skins quite often even on the full switch servers.

DKoor
04-12-2009, 10:44 AM
You are right.

However one can't but to notice an utmost importance of the correct camos... this case really underpins it.
For instance, I could easily go after #1craft in order to shot it down.
Now when I close a bit I will realize that it is friendly.... but, in the process friendly Cobra will start to wonder who I am if he didn't made a positive identification yet and will start to pay attn to me... and in the meanwhile 109 will maneuver on our tails.

Such things happen all the time online, not quite smart idea to emphasize it with wrong camohttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

TS_Sancho
04-12-2009, 11:24 AM
The one on the right is a positive ID for a 109, the one on the left you cant tell but would have been able too a half second earlier and will be able too if he rolls at that distance. Knowing whats flying at the time helps.

rnzoli
04-12-2009, 12:39 PM
I also use more than just a screenshot to identify... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The right one seems to be a 109 of course, but I would watch them for a while to see, whether the first one is another 109 or not. The next few seconds will tell, because the 2nd plane is in firing position soon, just needs to pull the lead.

WHen the first turns, it will also show a different planform, and it might just give away 100% certainty.

My guess: 2 AI 109s, playing their usual boom and zoom games on poor commie La-5s http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

McHilt
04-12-2009, 12:45 PM
Allright guys, good to hear all the reactions on this one. The answer is:

a pair of 109's.


We have one important piece of info missing here: which year and theater ? I'm sure a real pilot would know it ...

I indeed forgot to mention that...

It was a DF set up with La-5Fns / P-39N-1s on VVS side and Bf-109G2/6s / FW-190A5/6s for Blue... '43 Kursk theater

Stiletto-
04-12-2009, 12:58 PM
I think people are forgetting how much the LOD's change the farther a plane is away from you, if you have seen a modelers thread somewhere, they become very blocky and the parts are no longer that acurate. That could explain how the further aicraft to the left looks like its cabin is more forward like a P-39.

Also at that distance the canopy can blend into the body if the body is a greyish color scheme. If you look close enough, as previously stated.. It definatley has the yellow band on the tail. It looks to be aft of the iron cross because you can see enough of the yellow uniterupted, you would see less yellow if the cross was over the band. The rest of the skin is of green and grey hue, and besides the canopy looking a little odd, the rest of the body and silhouette look like a 109.

With the colors identifyable as a green and grey camoflouge and a yellow band behind where the cross would go, it is most likely a G-6 late if default skins are on. Second would be the regular G-6 and then the G-2.

As the models can get kind of "mushy" that far out, it is better to identify them by colors if you know skin downloads are off.


The one on the right side looks like a 109 as well, if we take into account that the model LOD might be more blocky.. The nose still look round, the tail is rounded, and most importantly, the arch and length to the look more like a 109 than anything else. Even if an LOD gets worse, you know the length of the wings and their angle relative to the aircrafts body is not going to change as the model gets simpler.

The Camoflouge is more perplexing though. It seems to be an overall green hue with possible grey wings. Notice the complete lack of yellow, being the tail fin, the band forward of the tail, wing tips or nose area. This looks to be more of late model 109 if it's a default paintscheme. But why would someone choose an early G Model and someone else takes a much later model?

I doubt the K-14 version is on this server, other than that I think if a default skin it could be a G6/AS though doubtful. If the Cross is covering up the yellow band enough, it looks most like a G-2 though I think you would see more yellow in the picture.

It is somewhat perplexing if it is a default skin.

Stiletto-
04-12-2009, 01:00 PM
Doh.. I swear I didn't see you post the anser McHilt.. I was anaylizing the picture for twenty minutes!

Stiletto-
04-12-2009, 01:50 PM
Just for fun I took a G-6 and a G-2 from screenshots up close at full LOD and shrunk them down and put them next to the real screenshot. obviously the angles aren't going to be exact and photoshop really blends in the pixels when you shrink objects that much. You can see the shapes of the planes easier on the in-game models because their is less filtering and blending, though I am wondering what they would look like with 16X FSAA on.

It also appears that the game washes out the color alot more as they appear more grey with less lights and darks as well.

http://webpages.charter.net/scottomatic/identify_1.jpg

McHilt
04-12-2009, 01:54 PM
Yo Stiletto, nice analysis...
None of the skins were default. I can tell as I created this 16 vs 16 mission as an offline practice kind of thing with lots of aces/vets involved... I try to make it into a mix of different a/c so it's getting hard to distinguish one from another during such pandemonium.
It's good practice... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Greets to all!

Uufflakke
04-12-2009, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by Stiletto-:
It also appears that the game washes out the color alot more as they appear more grey with less lights and darks as well.


Well, then Oleg did a great job. From further away everything looks more greyish with less light dark contrast in real life.
Atmospheric perspective as they call it.

AllorNothing117
04-12-2009, 04:02 PM
I'm saying 109 on the right, 109 or La7 on the left. I don't think anyone could say for certain, I'll wait till I get home on the 21inch LCD http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I;m on the 15 inch lap top right now...

AllorNothing117
04-12-2009, 04:04 PM
I think in a game situation you just need to know friend or foe. So probs be able to tell on the right one in a few more seconds gasme time that the right one was enemy, and then cos I fly against AI, the left one is to far to be wingman so that would have to be a friendly.

TinyTim
04-12-2009, 05:01 PM
Either a 109 chasing something (like a P-39), or two 109s.

109 possibly a standard cammo G2.

na85
04-12-2009, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by AllorNothing117:
I think in a game situation you just need to know friend or foe. So probs be able to tell on the right one in a few more seconds gasme time that the right one was enemy, and then cos I fly against AI, the left one is to far to be wingman so that would have to be a friendly.

S~

I don't think it's enough to just know friend vs foe.

Imagine you're in an La-5 and you spot something passing you off your wing, high and to the side. It rolls and dives in towards your rear hemisphere. From the little yellow parts on it, you surmise that it is German and therefore hostile. He has an energy advantage and is coming in quite fast.

You decide to perform a break turn to try to evade his guns.

Case 1: It's a 109. His poor elevator authority at high speed means he'll miss and/or not even try to follow your turn, and perform a zoom climb with intent to come back down on you again. That's okay because it buys you a little breathing room. You roll wings-level and extend for separation.

Case 2: It's a 190. His extremely good high speed maneuverability means he can likely match your turn for a short period of time and as a result you just set yourself up to get shot at.