PDA

View Full Version : June 19, 1944



R_Target
06-19-2010, 08:10 PM
On this date 66 years ago was the largest carrier battle in history, the Battle of the Philippine Sea, subsequently referred to by U.S. pilots as the "Great Marianas Turkey Shoot."

In the twelve hour air battle on June 19th, U.S. forces claimed app. 375 Japanese aircraft destroyed against Japanese air-to-air losses of about 275.

Contrails from the battle viewed from the U.S. fleet.

http://i46.tinypic.com/35a0wg2.jpg

ytareh
06-21-2010, 01:32 PM
375 vs275 hardly a turkey shoot .I always thought the ratio was massively higher in the US's favour ...

Mr_Zooly
06-21-2010, 02:20 PM
this is more like it:
The Japanese tried to land more planes at Guam or Rota from air forces elsewhere, but many were shot down by the Americans before they could land. In all, the Japanese had launched 373 planes from its carriers and only 130 returned nearly a two-thirds rate of loss. Only 102 were serviceable to any degree. Only 29 Americans planes were destroyed.

VonTonar
06-21-2010, 02:27 PM
What Zooly said

" Losses on the U.S. side on the first day were only 23, and on the second 100, most of them resulting from the night landings."

horseback
06-21-2010, 02:37 PM
The Marianas Turkey Shoot took place during the invasion of Saipan, not the Philippines, which took place in early October that year.

ytareh, the original poster meant that although the US Naval forces initially claimed as many as 375 kills, actual Japanese losses were approximately 275 to 300, including the aircraft claimed over the island of Saipan that day.

There were several carrier air groups involved, and a substantial portion of the US pilots were still relatively new to aerial combat. The intelligence officers on those separate carrier groups had to piece together the reports of the pilots, the reports of the radar plots and the claims of the various ships' gun crews before they could boil things down to something approximating a realistic total (and it still took post war Japanese records to get anything like the real figures).

A few of those US losses were the result of chasing Japanese divebombers and torpedo planes into the flak zones supposedly set aside for the surface ships' AAA fire.

cheers

horseback

M_Gunz
06-21-2010, 03:46 PM
Don't the IIRC 1000+ Kamikazes in one day vs US carriers and fleet count as bigger or do there have to be carriers on both sides?

R_Target
06-21-2010, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by horseback:
The Marianas Turkey Shoot took place during the invasion of Saipan, not the Philippines, which took place in early October that year.

Philippine Sea, not Battle of the Philippines. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Between the Marianas and the Philippines. Leyte Gulf used to be called Second Philippine Sea.


ytareh, the original poster meant that although the US Naval forces initially claimed as many as 375 kills, actual Japanese losses were approximately 275 to 300, including the aircraft claimed over the island of Saipan that day.

Correct-a-mundo.


There were several carrier air groups involved, and a substantial portion of the US pilots were still relatively new to aerial combat.

About half the fighter squadrons saw their first action on June 19th IIRC.

horseback
06-21-2010, 04:26 PM
Well, hardly anybody calls it anything but the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot; it would hardly do to allow it to be confused with the Battle of Leyte Gulf.

After all, McCampbell got only seven kills in the Turkey Shoot.

He got nine in the opening acts at Leyte Gulf.

cheers

horseback

M_Gunz
06-21-2010, 08:06 PM
That's one awfully big sea... (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/Philippine_Sea_location.jpg)

Philippines to Saipan is a long, long way.

horseback
06-23-2010, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
That's one awfully big sea... (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/Philippine_Sea_location.jpg)

Philippines to Saipan is a long, long way. About 32 years ago, my fast frigate made the trip from Subic Bay to Guam in about three days, doing a steady 15 knots...

cheers

horseback

Xiolablu3
06-23-2010, 01:50 PM
WHat the OP means is 375 claimed destroyed by the US Navy pilots, 275 actually destroyed.

not 375 vs 275