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View Full Version : A real pilot's opinion on force feedback in IL2



XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 10:18 AM
Originally posted on 09/29/03 05:10AM (server time: GMT 0)

I don't have one I'm not a pilot.

I have a theory that

1. IL2 is a step ahead of other sims and has the closest physics to a real plane of any of the current sims, so

2. The force feedback is easily the best yet too and helps you fly the plane bigtime. CFS3 isn't close.

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 10:18 AM
Originally posted on 09/29/03 05:10AM (server time: GMT 0)

I don't have one I'm not a pilot.

I have a theory that

1. IL2 is a step ahead of other sims and has the closest physics to a real plane of any of the current sims, so

2. The force feedback is easily the best yet too and helps you fly the plane bigtime. CFS3 isn't close.

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 10:51 AM
Your theory is correct.

I'd never join a club that would have ME as a member!!.

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 11:13 AM
What do you base your theory #1 on, considering that you are not a pilot?

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 11:51 AM
I responded in ORR first, but here it goes again, with a little more.

I can't comment on wether IL2/FB is ahead of others, becuase I don't have anything other that is reasonably current.

However, there are rights and wrongs about FF in IL-2, and there are some that are debatable since it's an attempt to simulate something that can otherwise not be achieved.

The rights:

You sense your airspeed from how stiff your stick feels. No centering at all on ground or other zero-airspeed situations. Very stiff at high speeds.

You can sense the buffeting when the stall is coming.


The wrongs:

In all planes I've flown (not that many) the trim is used to achieve 0 force needed for the current position of the stick. In sims, the trim is used to maintain the current AoA when the stick is centered. This is close to the same, save for the movement of the stick. This may be due to a problem with how FF is programmed, how FF sticks works, or is used to keep the same code for FF and non FF sticks.

With at least my current and previous stick, there is something like a FF deadzone near the center of the stick. Moving a the stick to the edge of that deadzone causes the stick to be kicked in the opposite direction. Ironically this makes it more difficult to fly a near perfectly trimmed plane than it is to fly one that's slightly off.

On some planes, the elevator is pulled down by gravity when it's standing still on the ground, pulling the stick fully forward with it. This is, of course, an extremely minor thing.


The debatable:

Programmed stick shaking is used to give you clues about things you cannot otherwise feel, for example the plane being kicked around in turbulence. In real world flying in turbulence, it's your plane that bounces all over the place, but you don't feel anything at all in the stick. Since you cannot have the program make your chair bounce around, the stick is shaken instead. I can't say if it's better or worse, or just feels different.

_
/Bjorn.

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 11:52 AM
When I played Mig Alley...I thought it was the best. When I played Fighter Ace...I thought it was the best. When I played CFS2...I thought it was the best. When I played CFS3, I thought the 1% planes made it better, but not the best. When I played Il2, I thought it might be the best...but I wondered too much. When I play FB, I think its the best... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 12:51 PM
If any of you guys are like me and love the control surface forces but hate the stick shake.

Got to FB root force feedback folder
make back up copy of all files

open each file with notepad .....EXCEPT THE SPRING FILE

Delete the contents and save

You should now have control surface forces only

none of that stick kickin and jumping when shootin, landin, and taxiing

usual disclaimers apply

works for me anyways

S~ Sly

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 01:24 PM
The feedback forces have been changed for FB, I'm certain.

In IL-2 There was considerable lightening of stick forces when going slow, and corresponding progressive firming up when travelling increasingly quickly. This was judged to be very accurate by a friend of mine who happens to be a Royal Navy Pilot of some 15 years and many thousands of hours experience on fixed wing Prop, Jets, and Helicopters

He concurred that certain types of buffeting are felt through the airframe rather than the stick, but given that we don't have FFB seats, through the stick is the next best thing. He felt the modelling of the stick forces to convey handling information to be very good.

I myself have had a few hours on fixed wing prop aircraft; Luscombe tail dragger, Cessna 172, Yak52, and agree that's pretty much how it feels.

Then we come to IL-2 FB......it's changed... There now seem to be only two basic settings in flight....light when your'e absolutely stalling or winging over...zero airspeed, or uniformly firm for all other conditions of flight irrespective of speed.

I prefered the settings in the original game.

"If I had all the money I've spent on drink....I'd spend it on drink!"

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 02:32 PM
I'm doing very good with Force Feedback. It helps me to prevent stalling coz you can feel the flutter before you stall. It also helped to notice bullet impacts in earlier versions when sound didn't appear.

Sorrily I think my joystic (Logitech Wingman Force 3D) isn't the best (axis make trouble).

Anyway, bying a ForceFeedback joysick was a good decision for FB.