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AllorNothing117
06-16-2010, 10:27 AM
Hey guys! ^_^

Been Working my way through the A.I. plans inbetween some truely epic system link style games with Day http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ("You can be my wingman anyday, bull s*** you can be mine") http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif I've obliterated some Zero's KI84's Dora's and every 109 bar the K! It's doing my nut in! I only fly the P-38 J, the best plane ever made ^_^

Anyone got any tracks of a P-38J taking out a 109 K? I start on Quick mission builder with a hieght advantage (just the old style 1k) like all the others, 1v1 to begin with, if I can down a 109K consistantly 1v1 then I'll switch to team games but these guys are nasty! Any tips? I apretiate he's A.I. and can fly with no overheat, see outside the cockpit, "rocket climb" (coined that phrase of Dad ^_^) etc but that didn't bother me against the others, just this damn 109K! Any tips/tracks would be much apretiated http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thank you ^_^

DKoor
06-16-2010, 06:30 PM
I'm afraid you can't do much vs 109K... or at least you shouldn't manage that plane at all in 38J...
Simply it beats 38J quite a bit performance wise. Versus Ai it would be extremely painfull to go vs four ace ai only because you'd have to get your discipline up and endure it for at least 15-20 mins or so. That's A LOT of flying over the treetops, thus the discipline...

Anyhow if you are into these team games or you vs multiple Ai bandits you may check out my track, 4 ace 109G's vs solo 38J (realistic, blah, blah, blah...).

http://www.datafilehost.com/download-874c1ca1.html

Only problem is it was recoded under 4.09b1m and I unfortunately do not have NTRK version, so unless you have some kind of switcher between game versions I'm afraid you wont be able to watch my tactic.

But mark my words, you haven't missed ANYTHING, really.

Funny that I said it, but honestly my tactic versus Ai is always the same... one tact for multiple bandits and another tact for 1v1. That's pretty much it regardless of (fighter) plane types, so if you are really interested you may go ahead and d/l any of my 1 vs 4 QMB tracks.

M_Gunz
06-16-2010, 07:36 PM
Teamwork and a break should get the drop on him. See if he can outrun bullets.
It's the pilot(s), not the plane(s).

K_Freddie
06-18-2010, 12:06 PM
You must learn the art of taunting the AI !!
Make yourself a target and 'just' keep out of his firing arc.. as he passes turn on him like a vulture - one hit and the AI loses all sensibility.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

AllorNothing117
06-18-2010, 01:03 PM
K_Freddie that's making alot of sense http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I'll give it a go http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif So long as your turning ever so slightly your as good as invincible anyway! :P Thanks.

M_Gunz, no offense but that made no sense! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif Please eloborate? By break, do you mean head on? Because that is suicide against ACE AI

JtD
06-19-2010, 12:00 AM
That's really quite a job. I think it would help if the P-38 took less than 100% fuel, but then I don't think it would help enough.

The K-4 is a lot faster and also climbing a lot better than the 38J. The AI makes use of that, climbs above it and comes back down in classic B'n'Z. Of course one can try to be better at dodging than the AI is at shooting, but with the 30mm around small mistakes are usually the end of the story.

Two things I found working - one would be to fly slightly below it in the initial pass, make it go after you. There's a constellation where it will actually do a 180 turn in pursuit, which costs it so much E that the 38 can easily get close to its 6 and nail it. The better you get the timing, the more it will turn and the easier for you.
The other thing is long range gunnery. If you can manage to hit the opponent from half a mile away, you'll have plenty of firing opportunities. You'll need several hits before it shows some effect, but it will show effect. The 38 has plenty of ammo for the HMG, so fire away, so usually it works.

Ba5tard5word
06-19-2010, 12:42 AM
The AI for the 109's is just pure evil. If you get behind them they will just climb off into the sunset all day long, then when you get bored of not being able to catch up to them, they dive in on you and then you get on their butt and they climb away again...you can sit on their butt and hit the fast forward button and you can chase them all the way up into the stratosphere and you'll never catch up with them unless you're in a much faster plane.

With a zippy plane like the Spitfire or La-5 the 109's will still fly away from you if you are in a plane that can pretty much supposedly match their speed. You can try replicating this by flying a 109 and you'll never be able to climb away from equally fast opponents like the 109 AI can, even with complex engine mgmt off. Fw-190's kind of do the same thing where they just fly away from you and eventually get too fast to catch up to, but at least they have poor acceleration so if you're lucky you can pounce on them before they speed up.

M_Gunz
06-19-2010, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by AllorNothing117:
K_Freddie that's making alot of sense http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I'll give it a go http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif So long as your turning ever so slightly your as good as invincible anyway! :P Thanks.

M_Gunz, no offense but that made no sense! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif Please eloborate? By break, do you mean head on? Because that is suicide against ACE AI

A break as in hey man, gimmie a break! A break in luck, a break in events, he zigged while you zagged and that got you a break...
that kind if break.
AI stands of artificial idiot. They may fly tight but they're 'stoopid'. They can't predict or shoot deflection worth snot either.

I hope the old 'It's the pilot, not the plane.' quote makes sense though!

K_Freddie
06-19-2010, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
They can't predict or shoot deflection worth snot either.
Hopefully BOB will have some ...'imagination' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

AllorNothing117
06-19-2010, 05:28 PM
'It's the pilot, not the plane.'

Absolutly http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Too true ^_^ But in this case the plane is faster/climbs better and while I'm not as "stoopid" as A.I. they are very good at climbing away into the stratosphere.

No worries, I'll not be flying against K's any time soon, It's just a boaring stalemate, I chase him get bored, he dives, I dodge, get on his six, chase him, I get bored...

Blah blah blah. One tiny **** up at the "I dodge" stage and your dead anyways. The logical option is not to engage them in the first place http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Or surprise attack them, but that doesn't work against A.I.!

M_Gunz
06-19-2010, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by AllorNothing117:
Or surprise attack them, but that doesn't work against A.I.!

If you try to fly up his six within 250-200m and steady to shoot then no you won't.
If you can pop him from the side on a bounce or just an intersecting path from 300-400m then yes you can.
They can't shoot deflection worth snot and in the same measure they never seem to see it coming nor do
they jink from beyond 250m.

They have patterns. You can play the losing side of those if you want and you'll always be right about losing.
And we all know how important it is to always be right, don't we?
Personally I'd rather get the kill now and then. Well okay, at least most of the time as this is the AI and I have
gotten slower at my age. 10+ years ago I took it really bad to lose to an AI in any flight sim and the IL2 AI are
nothing revolutionary at all.

Don't engage in a fight you will lose is right, The logical option is not to engage them in the first place.
But you can surprise them and you should have at least one wingmate in such a match anyway because with two or
more humans you should be able to lead them into traps.

If what you're doing doesn't work then do something different. The AI will not adapt. You just might.

AllorNothing117
06-20-2010, 03:41 AM
Well thanks but I'd rather not get the stage where I know the AI absolutly inside and out. That'd take the fun out of IL2 quite alot. I'm not really into scrutenising their every move until I've wokred out exactly how they will behave, what I already know about how the AI behave ruins this sim for me anyway. Ignorance is Bliss ^_^

K_Freddie
06-21-2010, 10:50 AM
Another option is to make 2 enemy ME109K flights with 1 a/c each, and you, as wingman or with a wingman.

When the battle begins, order your wingman to attack (and not follow you around like a lost f-art).. you then act as his wingman depending on what happens.

AFAIR the K pattern changes with a few extra fighters floating around - could be more interesting. Increase the number of a/c as you improve. I used to play 16-vs-16 and boy!!, was it a mess, only survived about 50% of combats.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Billy_DeLyon
06-23-2010, 12:22 AM
Increase the number of a/c as you improve. I used to play 16-vs-16 and boy!!, was it a mess, only survived about 50% of combats.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Yes, this is a way to make fights with the AI a little less boring. Their routines seem less predictable with more aircraft around. Good practice for maintaining your SA too.

AllorNothing117
06-23-2010, 06:49 AM
Yes, this is a way to make fights with the AI a little less boring. Their routines seem less predictable with more aircraft around. Good practice for maintaining your SA too.

True http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I do it often, but what is A.C? SA is situational awarness right?

megalopsuche
06-23-2010, 07:52 AM
Originally posted by AllorNothing117:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">'It's the pilot, not the plane.'

Absolutly http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Too true ^_^ But in this case the plane is faster/climbs better and while I'm not as "stoopid" as A.I. they are very good at climbing away into the stratosphere. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not the plane, it's the AI and its imperviousness to overheats. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

mortoma
06-23-2010, 01:16 PM
I just made a QMB, 4 P-38J against 4 Bf-109K4, all 'ace' and we toasted them under my fearless leadership! All four K4s splashed into the waters off Okinawa and three P-38s still flying, headed home. And I barely overheated my engines to boot. It was so easy it was like finding a blade of grass on my lawn. I was not used to flying the J and at one point I did one of those 'flip-flop' stalls the in game P-38 is famous for. But I recovered and shot down my second K4 afterward.
NTRK at 11:00.......

mortoma
06-23-2010, 02:05 PM
In several more attempts ( about 6 missions ) we won every time except one, when two K4s survived untouched with one smoking and me and my 38s all destroyed. This last time all K4 dead, my plane and another 38 survived, I got one of 'em. Easy peasy!!