PDA

View Full Version : GW how many torpedos for a small merchant?



Danelov
08-23-2006, 02:40 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gifToday I have started a new career with GW, 2th Flotilla with a VIIB and my first target was a big merchant hit and sink without problems with only one torpedo.Then, a hour after a small merchant was sighted and intercepted.Weather is very bad and not posibilities of work with the cannon. Torpedo attack ,OK, first hit ,and the guy is there reducing speed and sailing with 2 knts, second hit, stop, third hit ,not vissible results, the guy is like a battleship, still there....
Umm, fourth hit , still there ,certainly a little under in the water but not signs of possible sinking condition.
Five hit and ....no, still there ....,SAVE the game and now I am here to ask the Kaleuns about that...
There are some type of patch or corrective for this version 1.1a? Something special to correct?
Five torpedos and still nothing with a small merchant of maybe 2500 t is a lot and not very realistic.
I remember the post of yesterday about the 100.000 tons for patrol and http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif ,like so y need thousand of torpedos with ships like this one.

Some idea?
Thanks

Shahed_Kazi
08-23-2006, 02:45 PM
I don't target small merchants anymore, but IIRC those and medium tankers cause some issues in GW sometimes.

Btw do you know if the 7th Flotilla has the IX in 1941 ?

Danelov
08-23-2006, 02:54 PM
Maybe this one is a "Q" ship,or was build by the same yard like the super-tug finded by Poweredbyboy.
I know the british yard are quite good but to this point, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Donnenwetter!!!, the perspectives are quite problematic for D¶nitz submarines with this type of enemies.A urgent trade must be make with the japanese for some "Long Lance" torpedos.

hueywolf123
08-23-2006, 03:49 PM
Ok, the only real solution is to target manually and aim at the vunerable spots. Also, before firing go to the TDC screen and change settings on the selected tube.
A small merchant, at close distance = fast speed, impact detonation, 2m depth. Only use magnetic if the little ones are zig-zagging.
You can use impact on biggies too, but on all, make sure you identify them correctly and you are in perfect firing position (T-bone).
Always use your TDC and the more you manually target, the better you get
Good luck kaluen, good shooting http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

kac4all
08-23-2006, 04:00 PM
How long have you waited before you loaded the last 2 torps? I see 2 or maybe 3 at the most...

I usually let them sink slowly....

As to the 100K club mention... yeah, if you wanna hit that, you have to skip small merchants.... Hell, you have to skip large merchants too, just aim for c3s or t3s.

Danelov
08-23-2006, 06:26 PM
The aiming of the five torpedos was OK , all in green absolut no duds, doors open before the launch.The problem is the effect of the explosive charge.
But dont worry ,I have desinstalled the thing.

Too buggy for me GW ,that´s strictely my opinion.I know a lot of commanders like this add-on, but for me he need a serious great tunning to come really a subtitute of the so calley "Vanille".

IN DETAIL

-Five torpedos to sink a small merchant of 2320 t.
-Three torpedos to sunk a tramp steamer of 2050 tons.
-The caricature of the cannon is grotesque , the shells of the cannon cannot destroy A WOOD KISTE in the decks of the cargo.
-The sound is far of that,the sound of GW is like a atomic submarine,
silence,calm,relaxed ;from all books and publications we know that very good , is a noise ambience with 24 hours with the background of the diesels.
-The messages are quite funny, U-19 reporting"No fuel problems,6 Torpedos", http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif a IIB with 6 torpedos?
-Etc

Of course, they are positive things.The install is OK and programme running smoth with particules a 100 %; not problem for me of this side.Graphics,the map,the sound of the ports ,the traffic,etc,are all good details, but the problem, the most important thing, the efficience of the weapons in his damage parameters , here is the point. I understand the idea to make SHIII more realistic,"exigent", we can say difficult to the experimented players.But the way is not deforming the historical reality of the efficience of this historical limited weapons.
They are others ways to aproach this reality:

-Mechanics problems with the diesel
-Intruments destroyed after depth charges
-Periscope out of service, destroyed or freeze.
-Running short of food and supplies
-Running short of Compressed air
-Unable to submerge
-Sicks sailors
-Etc

Good hunting

StgShultz
08-23-2006, 06:45 PM
Not just the GW add-on. I have struck it a couple of times in rough weather with the plain vanilla setup.
Chalk it up to having a bad day.

hueywolf123
08-23-2006, 07:04 PM
Well maybe it is buggy, maybe it isn't. I haven't had half of these problems.Some days it takes four to sink a small merchant, other days I can take out a C2 with one shot.
A lot depends upon the weather, rough weather will alter the course of a fish, hitting for impact at an angle? It will glance off, magnetic triggers sometimes detonate before the target and the list goes on. No you will not hear the diesels 24hrs per day, not if you are submerged.I only hear them on the surface, under I can hear a very faint whirring, and a faint sloosh-sloosh sound from the props. Having been on a diesel electric boat once - this is exactly what you hear.
If you have so many problems, did you uninstall completely? I mean, the folder in the my documents file also? This is easily missed, and when you reinstall it puts all the bugs back in.
Post this question in the community help forum, someone may have an answer

3.JG51_Molders
08-23-2006, 08:03 PM
You have encountered one of the random "C" ships, yes "Cork" ships with important cork for the war effort http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Shahed_Kazi
08-23-2006, 08:40 PM
GW is waaay better, waaay more realistic than vanilla. No way I'm going back to vanilla, ever. Bugs yeah, but then again the stock game is full of bugs too. No mines, no traffic, lame escorts, lame convoys, that's my faint memory of vanilla. BTW the term vanilla is not derogatory, it's just a term to denote that the original of something, the first, whatever. Although yeah I wish that I could sink ships every single time with 1 torp, like in vanilla, but then again I had the same problem in the beginning with GW. But after some help from this forum and some practice, I'm now averaging 1. something torps per kill. I usually got 12 kills with 14 torps, sometimes even 14, even 15, considering the deck gun kill. According to most the deck gun damage is more realistic, but yes I'd like to see it blow up boxes on the ships too. Some small details need tweaking, but all in all, an awesome mod for me.

Now I got the IXC, fully upgraded to 42 standard, cost 16000 renown, but now I'm looking forward to my first 150k patrol with GW. I now have enough torps to paste the freaking Atlantic floor with destroyers. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

... ohh did I mention I one SHOTTED !!! 2 DDs and a Black Swan which were escorting the first convoy I met tonight ?

Yes folks ALL with GW !!!

My new qualification,l for which I am ardently slaving is "Zestorer JAGER !!!". No wait !! "ONE SHOT Zestorer Jager" It's payback time you punks !!!!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Shahed_Kazi
08-23-2006, 09:43 PM
Ohh I found this about the deck gun posted by someone at subsim.com:

"I found this at uboat.net, U-596 did some deck gun practice on 20th and 21st August 1943.

Date - U-boat - Commander - Name of ship - Tons - Nationality
20 Aug, 1943 - U-596 - Victor-Wilhelm Nonn - El Sayeda - 68 - Egyptian
21 Aug, 1943 - U-596 - Victor-Wilhelm Nonn - Panikos - 21 - British
21 Aug, 1943 - U-596 - Victor-Wilhelm Nonn - Namaz - 50 - British
21 Aug, 1943 - U-596 - Victor-Wilhelm Nonn - Lily - 132 - Palestinian

..... The Panikos was sunk with 25 rounds from the deck gun, the Namaz with 13 rounds and the Lily with 8 rounds."

That kind of settles the deck gun issue more or less, exceot that sometimes it should give critical hits.

Danelov
08-24-2006, 12:14 AM
Several well know Commanders had used the cannon to score kills, Topp with the U-552 in american waters,Brandi with U-617 in the Mediterranean,Korth with the U-93 in the Atlantic to destroy one frigorific ship(a relat well described by Harald Busch),Hardegen with the U-123 in "Paukenshlag",Schudhart with the U-29 or Luth with the U-181 near Lourenco Marquez ,etc.
And the 88 or 105 had certainly not spitting snow balls in this situation.
Yes, the "Vanilla" had limitations but there are thing not necessary to change .
Traffic? Yes, "Vanilla" had not traffic in the port, but for me that´s "cosmetic". Already Wilhelmshaven was not the 8th and Brodway.
Mines??
Certainly , you have a lot in "Vanilla" , I have scaped destruction by miracle near Gibraltar of a extense field and I was obliged to pass under, glueded to the bottom of the sea.I find planes are quite more active in "Vanilla" also, enemy I mean , no Germans. In three patrols I have never see a British plane , and all patrols were very near of Scottland coast,Scapa Flow and the Firth of Forth.Not in the middle of the Atlantic.
In "Vanilla" certainly you have a minimum of three or more "Aircraft spotted" in this area and bonjour "Hurricanes" and "Sunderlands".
In "Vanilla" in 1943 I can assure you,like in the real thing,the PBYs,Avengers and Sunderland dont drop cacahuetes.You are continuelly down to scape this terrible steel rain.And the aiming of this flyers, also like in the reality of 1943,is quite good.And the convoys of 1940-1941 are only a sweet souvenir in 1943.

Coming back to the damage profiles. The are few logic to sink a big cargo of 5750 tons with only a torpedo and a miserable small merchant or tramp of 2200 tons needed three to five.
Yes, I have also waited 20 minutes. Is true, one of this "Battleship" tramps had sink after this time but that costed me three torpedos for that.Usually ,and I speak of historical fates, one ship of this type after one such hit exploded and break in two very quickly, sometimes in seconds.
Two torpedos for sink a V&W destroyer in GW.
The most part of the DDs sunken by U-Boots were destroyed by one torpedo. Yes ,that was routine to launch two for safety(Maybe one is a dud). Possible yes,latter in 1943, if you have launched a acoustic first.Then with engine room destroyed launched a second one.
Certainly no all merchants ships are equals and some type were very hard to sink. The "Liberty" were good builded and I can very well unterstand two hits for this type of target ,or two for a tanker of "San Demetrio class", that 's historical accurate.As rule for the U-Boot commanders two torpedos were the normal for a target between 8000-10.000 t,like the ships of PQ-17,HX-229-SC122 or "Pedestal" convoys.
About the dificulty and comparing
"Vanilla" "GW" , the work is the same, the aiming device , the TDC,the aproaching,the angles, and the planning is not different. The hits are always there.No duds or premature detonated torpedos if you have done the right things.
The problem is the results of the hits.
That´s the point and my main critic.

Shahed_Kazi
08-24-2006, 05:38 AM
Ok Dan, here's what the problem is:

If you need 2 fish to kill a DD, you are not aiming right.

Like I said earlier I had the same problem, if you do a search on threads by me, you'll see I started posting on this forum because I could not kill anything in GW.

Like I said earlier as well, after some advice and practice, I'm now killing everything with ONE fish, from BB to DD, everything. Try a custom mission and position yorself at a perfect 90 degree angle with a DD, use an impact torp and aim for the engine room at 400m. It will be dead in one shot.

But again I'd liek to imporve the power of the deck gun and increse the perfect angel for hit from 80-110 to 70-120. In GW as it is now you need to be 80-110 degree perpendicular to achieve a critical hit.

Danelov
08-24-2006, 07:54 AM
"Ok Dan, here's what the problem is:

If you need 2 fish to kill a DD, you are not aiming right.

Like I said earlier I had the same problem, if you do a search on threads by me, you'll see I started posting on this forum because I could not kill anything in GW".

No Shahed_Kazi , the point is not there.The aiming is good, the impacts are there and the sinkings too.The three patrols were not like the records 86.700 t of Hessler submarine ,but that was between 18.500 t and 22.300 t including three destroyers and a armed trawler(destroyed also with torpedo)in the packet.

But I mean to say, I have waited of this add-on a aproach more realistic of the game,specially in the damages caused by my submarine and the damages caused IN MY SUBMARINE.

We know this second one, is one of the most weakest point of"Vanilla" and GW had nothing done to change that.

I have never encountered in my patrols after been depth charged something like "Chlorgas"!!!!!. And that was the first mortal enemy of the crews and a usually terrible dangerous situation finded in all WW submarines.
The funny thing, the much more old "Aces of Depth " had this realistic situation in his damaged parameters.
Also never experimented a fire in the command room or others, another normal consequence of depth charges.
The gestion of the colissions or the danger of ramming are also very weak.
I had a few colission submerged with the hulls of tankers and cargos , a not scratch in the paint of my submarine.
That´s very irrealistic , minimum the consequences was the destruction of the periscopes and a crushed conning tower.And the ramming , many times utilised by DD, Corvettes,and another escorts, and more rarely by tankers and cargos make nothing in your U-Boot.A soft push, a big noise ,the annnoce"Be rammed" and everybody happy..., the real consequences were in general terrible , with the U-Boots cut in two and sinking in seconds.

And the most contractidory and humoristic I have read in this forum of people trying "TO RAMMING A TARGET WITH THE U-BOOT".
That´s like to stop a no brakes truck with a motorcycle...

Personally I play the game ,trying to think like a U-Boot commander, if I find a target of 500 t , I engage and I destroy this one , that´s my job and my assigment as commander and the fixed objetive by the submarines of the Kriegsmarine in WWII to win the Battle of the Atlantic.Each kill count , you dont had the choice to wait other targets than maybe you dont find anymore.The not engagement of a target with a intact U-Boot was certainly a reason to be Court Martialled and loss the command.If I find a stragler or a solitary ship ,wondefull,but the main objetive IS TO CUT THE ENEMY LINES and that, that mean convoy.Remember "DAS BOOT" ,Willenbrok ,the commander of the U-96 after several weeks of sailing and find nothing had no dudes to engage his first target, a destroyer.Coming back to the old "Aces of Deep" , they were things good in this programme not presents in SHIII. The message of the Watchman ,"smoke over the horizont Herr Kaleun" was really very accurate and historical was so the first contact by U-Boots with the enemy.Also I find there too much targets in the world SHIII; in the reality the U-Boot sailed weeks and weeks and sometimes had never finded a target before returning to port,short of fuel.That was another way for GW to aproach the reality: the search of the enemy.
OK ,many commanders in SHIII are involved a a sort of competence, trying to go for "Science Fiction" 100.000 and 200.000 tons and ignoring targets for get the big ones.But for me, that is not the "sens" of this game, sorry,that´s make the whole thing still more unrealistic.

VOILA what I have waited of a Add-on like GW, a more realistic aproach of the damages of the enemy and my submarine and not a degrading of the performances of the weapons to make the game more challenger.A more realistic aproach to the WWII Kriegsmarine submarine warfare in the Battle of the Atlantic.

Danelov
08-24-2006, 04:28 PM
I have installed again the GW to try again and see, maybe my three first patrols were bad days or a fixation of my part.I have a long experience with many Naval Sims like the first "Silent Service" for DOS, the series "Silent Hunter I, II", "Aces of Depth",""Burning Steel" series,etc and sometimes the things dont work the first time.

No, the thing is chhonic with this toy torpedos and artillery by GW .Yes, German torpedos were not so good but also not so bad.And the head certainly had a little explosive and not candys.Today for sink another V & W destroyer I have need:

-A first torpedo hit in the boilers section of the DD
-A second one in the opossite site under the bridge.

Surface and engage with the dummy cannon , a systematic destruction of all 4.5 in turrets first for safety, then ,funnel , flotaison line, stern section, rudder and propeller , depth charges throwlers( a only such hit here is enough to make exploded a real destroyer in thousand of pieces).Then continued, bridge,flotaison line other side . After 95 shells of 88mm ,360 shells of 20mm ,50 minutes at 20 or so miles of the Firth of Forth the ship start to sink slowly.Like all my other three patrols in the british coast, the RAF or Coastal Command was in hollydays. Any sign of planes.
OK ,continued.Two days after a big cargo , some 5300 t. First torpedo hit where usually are the the boilers and under the funnel. The ship loss a little speed but continued without problem. Second torpedo hit in the stern section .OK the cargo stopped. Surface ,engines stopped and at 600 m wait with my U-Boot stern tube aiming the target.Crew in deck to drink a Dortmunder Union.I wait to see ,maybe he sink. 20 minutes , no apparent signs of inminent sink condition. A little down by the stern but nothing catastrophic. Ok he need a third hit. OK ,aiming at 600 m a G7e also in the stern section but opossite side. Another nice hit and we seating again to wait. 25 minutes this time and the situation stationary ,nothing had changed. OK ,the stern tube was reloaded. Fourth torpedo ,also some 20m at the right of the first impact. Fourth hit , and the crew take another Dortmunder Union , dont worry about planes because there are not in the British Islands for GW.After 18 minutes, ALLELUJAHHH!!! ,he start to sink slowly by the stern.I suposse , a standard cargo,not armoured of 5200 t need four torpedos, a battleship class Revenge must need maybe at minimum of 20 with this criterium.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gifSorry ,but enough, definitively NO!! with this add-on for me.

Carotio
08-25-2006, 04:00 AM
Originally posted by Danelov:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gifSorry ,but enough, definitively NO!! with this add-on for me.

You could also get my GW add on = GW-UA
Read about it on my site, download it from my site or UBRS!

Smaller merchants and tankers are easier to sink. Bigger merchants still hard, unless fuel tank is hit!

Cpt.Thorne
08-25-2006, 04:51 AM
Hi
Just filling in here. Noty a GW user but very aware of the sinking stuff in GW.
AFAIK TGW uses the NYGM 1.3 sinking modelling. I am a heavy NYGM user and really happy about it. Also I am aware that new GW version will have its own modelling of ships sinking. And the new NYGM 2.01 and the coming 2.2 will have even improved sinking modelling from NYGM 1.3.

Back to the topic. In this modelling of ships sinking you are not to use the "gamey" tactics (not blaming you but the vanilla version of SHIII) of just draining down the health point of the ship to sink it. This mening that in the vanilla version you could sin a ship with deck gun by just firing into its bridge or smnoke stack and drain the health points this way and wait for it to explode split and sink in 5 seconds. Very realistic? In the NYGM modelling the ships are divided into compartments and you need to "sink" the ship by flooding it. There is a "G" spot in all the ship so if you aim well you might get the total disaster explosino on the ship and make it explode into small pieces split and sink. But the general idea is that you need to get your shots into different compartmens of the ship flooding them and sinking it. No healthpoints are involved in this system. And to make this more clear if you use the auto aiming with the triangle thingy locked you´ll hit the sam compartment over and over again. This isn´t going to do it.As the first impact is already slowly flooding the compartment.

Here some tricks I do to sink those ships. Well as a realism buff I am happy to make it clear ships might take more than one shot to kill. Also my strategies vary depending on the weather and target. Calm weather: To all ships I tend to aim behind the bridge area cloe to the stern cargo area. If hit there most ships get their prop shafts damaged or engine damaged and in the best scenario also loose their rudder. This brings them to a halt (good tactics especially against convoys) Also as the heavier parts of the ship are in the stern section (Engine/boiler/bridge area) they might sink stern first with only one shot...but this might take between 15min to 24hrs+ so patience is a virtue. Against convoys in good weather I tend to attack this way mark down the hits and leave the area or if undetected reaload and attack some more. then leave the area and come and pick up the stragglers when there is no worry about escorts. Second shot I usually try to hit right in front of the bridge or then to the lage cargo compartments amidship/bow section. This usually floods the crippled ship enough to sink it and maybe if possible surface and quicken the job by shooting some shell all along the hull below waterline.

In heavy seas: (4-7m depth setting depending on the target) Tankers and transports and other fast merchant ships (liberty etc.): (3-4m depth setting) First shot to the very front of the bow section these ships when hit accelerate and try to shake you off but when in heavy seas and having a gaping hole right in the front of the ships really makes them take in water and they might sink as fast as IXD dives to periscope dept at slow speeds http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif but it looks like crashdiving as the stern flu´ngs into the air and the ship plummets under. If this doeasn`t work I take the second shot into the staer to stop it and let those waves swallow the ship being flooded from both ends.

Heavy Seas: Slow small and large ships: If talking about small merchant, tramp steamer (coastal merchant) I aim the shots behind the bridge to stop them and see them plummet stern first as the nature usually crashes the waves over the ship and flood the other compartments too after it starts to settle by the stern. Against med-large cargo (C2-3) I Aim my shots either to the midsection to flood one of the larger cargo holds and if tihs doesn´t work then to the stern.

How do I do it: No threat from escorts. I tend to aim one shot per ship and then come back for the coup de grace. If there is a meium to high threat from escort I make my TDC calculations the shoot firts shot and switch tube and with the same calculations just aim the crosshair to another sections and shoot another shot. I try to avoid computer calculated spread shots if possible but if the threat lefev is very high and there isn´t time to have periscope up for longer than on aim then pick a spread between 2-4 degrees (this also depending on the distance of the target) and aim for the center. You should then score stern and bow hit if calculations are correct.

With the new NYGM mod in latewar actionsI am almost always forced to take shots outside of the convoys (+2000m) then I just choose spread of 4 torps and aim for the general area of the convoy setting magnetic pistols at around 7m. Usually atleast 2 hits are scored for later picking. This ofcourse as I play in WaW and outside WaW always use the Dead is Dead tactics so I am trying to rather survive the war then be a top aces with gazillion tons/patrol.

Hope this helps!
Cpt.Thorne

Shahed_Kazi
08-25-2006, 07:04 AM
Thanks Thorne. That was an excellent and extremely helpful post. I took some pointers from that. I've got a load of screens to post as they say a picture is a worth a thousand words. Hopefully I get to post them today.

Just one more thing, for now.

Last night U-126, Type IXC, attacked the Caribbean ports. Saw a tanker, inbetween Port of Spain and Curacao. Set intercept course but got bounced by a Clemson about 2 kms from me and closing fast, guns ablaze. Obviously saw me first as I was totally target fixated, and did'nt even hear the sighting, just the sheels whizzing by.

I was on 0 degree intercept course to the large tanker, range +-3560meters. My speed 21 knots, flat sea, 0 wind. I aimed Tube 1, T1 fish; 9 meters deep, impact pistol, medium speed. I aimed dead center of the tanker without changing course. Fire 1 !!!

Set tube 5 to magnetic, depth -+3meters, flood tube 5 !!! aimed at a 30 degree angle to the bow, and ahead by 100 meters, of the Clemson who was now a kilometer away, Fire 5 !!!, crash dive !!!

Into the dive, stabilised at 45 meters, running silent from 20 meters, damage repaired, hull integrity 97%. Turned into the path of the Clemson as it passed, Tube 5 had missed. Pinging and changing course, all depth charges missed. New speed 1 knot, change course, kept him within earshot and started sneaking away. No more pings, he lost us. As we were continuing on new intercept course to the tanker, I got the Torpedo treffer ! (sp?) message. 1 hour later, estimating the position of the tanker, we surfaced to periscope and saw it about 300 meters dead ahead. Blow ballast, surface the boat. Watch on deck.

Came on deck and admired the beauty of a large tanker split into two large pieces through the center, lying there in the clam warm water of the banana sea.... 5 seconds of admiration is enough. Flank speed ! new course 180 ! hoping for some aircraft to arrive to their doom (but none ever came). http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

U-126 had killed the tanker with a single torpedo from 3.5 kilometers away. Evaded the enemy and was back on it's mission to disrupt and destory traffic in the Caribbean.

Shahed_Kazi
08-25-2006, 10:11 AM
I have scanned through my screenshots and have found so many one shot kills with GW1.1, that I really did'nt know which images to post so I have selected a random 17 images. Hope this helps to clarify the point I was making i.e 1 shot kills are common in GW1.1., provided you hit the right place, at the right angle.

Destroyer killed with one shot to the engine room
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/SH3/17.jpg

12 ships with 14 torpedoes, sub TYPE VIIB
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/SH3/16.jpg

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/SH3/15.jpg

14! ships with 14 torpedoes, sub VIIB
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/SH3/14.jpg

Large Cargo one shot.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/SH3/13.jpg


http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/SH3/12.jpg

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/SH3/11.jpg

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/SH3/10.jpg

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/SH3/9.jpg

Large merchant one shot.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/SH3/8.jpg

This screen was taken for the moon. If I remember correctly this ship went down with approix 60 shells from the deck gun.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/SH3/7.jpg

9 ships with 14 fish, perfectly reasonable.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/SH3/6.jpg

Shahed_Kazi
08-25-2006, 10:19 AM
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/SH3/5.jpg

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/SH3/4.jpg

Intercept
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/SH3/2.jpg

half an hour later, one shot result.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/SH3/3.jpg

Battleship sunk with one shot to the engine room. One of 4 sunk by me in this career, all sunk with one shot.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/ShahedK/SH3/1.jpg

One shot kills are possible, even the norm, for some in GW1.1. The key is the angle (between 80-100 from bow, ideally) and the location of torpedo impact on the target (differs from target to target, Larcge cargo: Engines, Large tanker: keel impact dead center etc..). This coupled with the advice on flooding by Thorne should make for some good kills !

I'd like to contact the makers of GW, with some suggestions by Dan and myself for the next version. Anyone know if they have a forum or email ?

Cpt.Thorne
08-25-2006, 01:02 PM
TGW Website
http://www.users.on.net/~jscones/TGW/ (http://www.users.on.net/%7Ejscones/TGW/)
TGW official thread in subsim
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=94544
Thread about the latest release of GW=GWX
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=97303

NYGM website
http://www.wolvesatwar.org/nygm/
NYGM official thread
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=90285

For the subsim mod forum you need to sign in to subsim forum (free) and I can highly recommend that as it seems to be THE forum for the modmakers to discuss the mods and related topic and it always has the latest new about these too exellent super mods. From the official websites you get the precise info on the mod and whats going on. Like said I am a NYGM user but knowing that GW uses NYGM 1.03 damage models I was able to discuss the matter about it too. Contacting the dev teams it is easiest way to PM them via the subsim forum for:
GW- Kpt.Lehmann
NYGM- Der Teddy Bar
Hope this help.
CT

Shahed_Kazi
08-25-2006, 01:29 PM
That is really helpful Thorne. Thanks a million. I'll be registering soon and contacting them about some suggestions. Dan I'd encourage you to do the same. Thoirse ois there a reason why you use NYGM rather than GW ? What you feel is better about NYGM ? Never used it myself so am curious.

Cpt.Thorne
08-25-2006, 01:54 PM
Reasons I use NYGM over TGW
1.I am a realism buff. TGW is aiming for realism and gameplay to work hand in hand. NYGM is purely for realism and "lacks" some gameplay aspects TGW has in it.

2.TGW has loads and loads of eyecandy which is truly beautiful! But knowing my rig it might slow the computer down too much to enjoy fully.

3.I am heavily involved in WaW www.wolvesatwar.org (http://www.wolvesatwar.org) and WaW aims for realism/roleplay aspect to make SHIII a whole new experience (If there would be no WaW I might have stopped playing SHIII some time ago) thus it was decided to work it hand in hand with the NYGM mod. NYGM mod is playtested heavily amongst some of the Kaleuns in WaW too just to make it great for everyone before releasing new versions etc. v2.2 coming out soon.

I thought about dual installation to play both mods but my RL is quite busy and I am only managing to play my WaW patrols and little extra from time to time.

Cheers
Thorne

Shahed_Kazi
08-25-2006, 02:16 PM
Cool. Thanks for the link to WaW. Extremely impressive.

Danelov
08-25-2006, 02:36 PM
Hi, thanks Capt Thorne and Shahed-Kazi for the comments and notes, but that confirme again strongly my negative to utilise GW. Any Battleship was sunk by one torpedo,in WWII.The sole near examples was the Italian Cavour in Taranto by the Swordfishs of the "Illustrious" and had not sinked, but only put out of combat, and the IJN "Kongo" by US Sealion,previously heavy damaged in the Battle of Leyte.HMS Repulse had taked five Japanese torpedos and several bombs, the HMS "Prince of Wales" six torpedos and also several bombs, the "Bismarck" , one torpedo by the HMS "Victorious" air group, another by the HMS "Ark Royal" air group, three by "HMS Dorsetshire" and hundert of shells of 406,381,356mm and medium caliber.The "Royal Oak" had take three hits by U-47, the "Barham" three by U-331,the "Scharnhorst" a minimu of 11 confirmed torpedos ,the "Musashi" need 19 torpedos and 17 250, 450 kg bombs to sink, the "Yamato" 15 torpedos and also more of 20 bombs impacts,also all Battleships at Pear Harbour the 07-12-41 atacked by the Nagumo carriers were sunken with between 2 to 5 torpedos each,etc.

"This mening that in the vanilla version you could sin a ship with deck gun by just firing into its bridge or smnoke stack and drain the health points this way and wait for it to explode split and sink in 5 seconds. Very realistic?"

Never finded this type of situation in my SHIII standard, a minimum of 20 to 40 88mm shells for a small cargo and that is historical accurate.
With GW I need to go a 50m of the target to obtain some results with the 88mm , is that realistic? Is realistic one shell of 88mm fired a 200m incapable of destroy a wood box?

GENTLEMENS: the Roumanian staff creators of SHIII are not debutants of afficionados in the field of the submarine Naval Warfare.Behind there, are thousand of hours in investigation in pages of books and publications of naval technologie.This people know very good the ballistic,torpedo technic,bombs effect,physic of the corps,atmosferic factors,etc.Of course ,is impossible to think in all and nothing forget, for that we have the patches,but caution here,there a lot of patches and programmes but few really well done and right documented.For aficcionados is OK , but for people, modesty apart ,like me, knowing about the Naval history ,his technologie, with years of reading and investigation in the theme of the Battle of The Atlantic and the U-Boots in WWII, dont work the "Walt Disney" patches or programmes.
About this patches or programmes I have finded only a few of real utility :

-A modification of the torpedo T2 with the right range
-U-Boat instruments patch
-Flag high definitions textures
-Gramophone songs
-SH3 Commander

This last yes, is brillant and really well done.
Congratulation to his creator and many thanks.

I have installed and tested several others but there were FOR ME uselless and wrong documented and fair irrealistic.After respective test like GW fast desintalled.

For me personally , the so called "Vanilla" ,the standard SHIII with his respetive patch 1.4b and the mentioned SH3 is far , but really far,much more realistic as GW.
Only we need maybe a patch 1.5b for improved the damaged in the U-Boot ,ramming effect, chlor gas, fire aboard after depth charges,messages of the Watchers ,as luxus traffic in the port,etc.But the fundamental is there.A torpedo in the boiler of a destroyer and enough to see the ship sink in 10-15 minutes,like in the reality ,and not like GW with two torpedos, 95 or more shells of 88mm, 360 of 20mm and 50 minutes at 20 miles of the Firth of Forth without any air presence of the RAF or Coastal Command.

The point, be realistic and respect the history.
That's all. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Cpt.Thorne
08-25-2006, 02:40 PM
Shahed_Kazi
If you have any additional questions about WaW you can post to the recruits thread in the radio room or PM me. One thing about WaW is that we are happy recruit new kaleuns but we are hoping them to give it a long haul instead of one patrol and quit thing. That´s why we have training flotille and missions to do there before being assigned to Front Uboote this is done to "weed out" the play and quit members as lots of time and effort is being put into WaW by the BdU and BdU staff and all the Flottille Kommandants. You can also see in the radio room for 2.flottille actions and how patrols work etc. My second persona there is the Commander of U39. But like said to play in WaW you need to use NYGM as we aim for everyone having same kind of settings to make it an even experience for everyone there.

Danelov
There are so many mods out there for grabs that I respect your views on this. In NYGM 2,01 I have never seen a DD to need 2 torps to sink but to tell you the truth I have never aimed to sink one. Only to shoot towards them to gain some time to avoid straight attack by them. It is great to have all these mods so everyon can choose from what they like and play the game that way. Good luck to all Kaluns in which ever seas they fight the Battle of the Atlantic from 1.4b-TGW-NYGM. Happy hunting and good luck!

Heil Ubootwaffe!
CT

Shahed_Kazi
08-25-2006, 11:04 PM
I'll have a closer look at WaW, though at the moment I'm having way too much fun with the career.

Seems we've come full circle with the discussion, so I'll post my concluding thoughts, with all due respect.

First the main issue was that it takes too many torps to kill a ship, that resolved, evidence provided, the issue then becomes that it takes far too few. In fact the real issue is one of subjectivity, like and dislike.

That's funny. Well anyway as far as realism is concerned, it's a no brainer.

SH3 is the Hollywood version with the massive secondary explosions, one shot kills from almost every angle, magnetic or impact no matter. 200k patrols *10 per career, no traffic, bare essentials marketeed by the publishers to make the game run on the average Joe's pc , who earns about 1500 bucks a month. A true commercial product in many, many ways.

GW is by far much more realistic in every single way. Not even a single thing more realistic about SH3 over GW with the possible exception of the deck gun barrage. Which was intentionally toned down to curb the guns abalze wiping out destoryers in the Thames charge by the overzealous 14 year olds of the Ubootwaffe.

Even if a professor in Naval history specialising in Ubootwaffe in WW2, considers SH3 more realistic than GW, then those credentials must have been bought on the internet for USD 100 from some dubious vendor.

SH3 more realistic than SH3 GW. That is just false, I''m not even going to argue the facts there. It's the difference between black or white, night or day. There is no argument, not contest at all. No discussion, even.

I don't think I can contribute in a constructive manner any further to this discussion, so I'll take my suggestions to the GW developers, and bow out right here. Hope I have helped in some way ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Happy hunting and Salute ! Thanks for the flood tips once again.

AVGWarhawk
08-26-2006, 06:34 AM
IMHO, I believe the GW (free download!) is the most realistic Mod to date. At first I was using 2-3 torpedos to sink small merchants. I was using 100 rounds of 8.8 to sink small merchants. All of this I find credible and realistic. This was the first day of using the Mod. Day 2, I approached a large cargo, I sent 3 torps, 2 hit. The cargo slowed but was still chugging along. I sent a 4th, hit dead center and I heard "she is going down!" Therefore, I conclude that 1 torp placed just right will send the ships down. As far as the 8.8 cannon, yes I can sink ships with it after many rounds and I suspect, realistically it was the same in the war. Yes,you punch holes in the hull and start fires but the engines were not shut down and the last guy off turns out the lights...the crew were in fear for their lives. They abandoned ship as quickly as possible, so if the ship is still chugging along and is becoming a run away ghost ship, I would suspect that is how it was. Remember that these ships had water tight bulk heads and blasting a large hole with a 8.8 shell would not sink the ship, the doors were shut to prevent sinking. What I have done is send in 1 torpedo to begin the sinking, surface and have gunnery practice until the ship sinks. Usually about 50 rounds does the trick! So to sum it up and reiterate what some in this thread have already stated, use manual targeting so as to hit every part of the ship, do not depend on the cannon to blast everything out of the water with two shots. The cannon is not your main weapon for sinking ships, it is more of a defense when surfaced and a useful tool for sinking smaller ships. As far as the slow sinking of ships, I believe it to be very realistic. Yes, a lot of ships went under in 1 minute and I believe you will find it here with this mod. Using 2-3 torps will finally sink ships and you will find it here in this mod as well. It makes it more the challenge than anything. Read Iron Coffin by Herbert Werner, this is a first hand account of how it really was. Thus far, the game plays like the book! But like anything else, someone will not like the mod because you cannot blast everything in sight with one hit. If that is what you want, reinstall the original game and enjoy the arcade experience. If you are looking for some bit of realism, I highly recommend this mod. For what I got and a great price(FREE), you cannot beat it!

Danelov
08-26-2006, 06:42 AM
OK , we close this circle.
I think you have not understand the difference in my point of view.

My vission of the game is the more near realistic aproach in a simulated way of this big conflict , the Battle of Atlantic and the activities of the Germans submarines in WWII.And in that, standard SHIII with 1.4b is the winner in relation with GW.

-For you is the efficience or sink the most elevated number of ships with minimum of torpedos,accepting the abstraction and negation complete of the historical reality with particulars and tricks builded by a particular programme,fine working for you, but very fair of the reality .

For you SHIII with GW or without is a game in all full sens.A "Contest" or "Competition" to gain points in the figure of tons despite that´s can be real or not.

For me is something more as a simulator(like FS2004)intented to present the Battle of the Atlantic with his terrible reality and the engament of thousand mans, fallen in service to his respective countries.

Voilá , game for boys or aproach of the reality , there is the choice.

" Even if a professor in Naval history specialising in Ubootwaffe in WW2, considers SH3 more realistic than GW, then those credentials must have been bought on the internet for USD 100 from some dubious vendor".

No coments about this weak argument ,dont merite mention and I dont like to entry in this game and start a discussion after that. We are here to enjoy and apreciated SHIII.

"Flying Tiger" AVGwarhawk read before my previous commentaries in this post.

SHIII is there for us and everybody can apreciated him after his feelings and personality.

AVGWarhawk
08-26-2006, 02:26 PM
Danelov,


"-For you is the efficience or sink the most elevated number of ships with minimum of torpedos,accepting the abstraction and negation complete of the historical reality with particulars and tricks builded by a particular programme,fine working for you, but very fair of the reality"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just what the heck does this jibberish mean? This fragmented sentence with no meaning at all would lead me to believe you did not understand the point. SH3 out of the box is arcade at best. If you mean sinking the most number of ships and joining the 100K club in a arcade like fashion, blasting everything with one shot...not what I want at all!!!!!!!!!!!!! U-boats did not singly score 100K in a 8 week mission! The GW is more realistic than the out of the box game. So no comment about a weak argument? Of course not, what you have written has made no sense at all. Furthermore, my post did not single you out, it was simple point of fact for all to read who have contributed to this thread. As stated in the first sentence of my post IMHO...In my humble opinion...respect it as I respected your and the others.

Furthermore, if you vision of the game is "a near realistic approach in a simulated way"(gee what other way is there?) then you start making and creating files and stop blasting those that have handed this time consuming effort for free. Constructive critique is always appreciated. It is a real shame that you believe this is some personal attack on you. Why don't you re-read my post and find your name somehow attached to the post. Let me know what you find.

Danelov
08-26-2006, 03:27 PM
This is your opinion ,respect mine.I have nobody insulted or something like this with this post; from the first day I have been very clear about that , I have write my point of view.Yout think that about certain programme , wonderfull ,I thing something other, very simple...No wars or conflicts from that.Each live a different world ...

"Constructive critique is always appreciated".

There are multiple mentions about that in this post from the beginn.For that I have write you
"read before my previous commentaries in this post".I mean the content from the first day and all the development of this story.

About the add-on making , I dont have time ,I am actually very busy with the add-ons for FS2004 and CFS2,and also for free.

All OK

AVGWarhawk
08-26-2006, 06:22 PM
OK, we agree we have differing opinions on GW. My simple point is that I believe this to be the best of all mods put together. Sure, I have discovered bugs as you did. Small merchants do not go down as one would think in the real world. Upgrading your boat at very first mission does not allow you your sunk vessels credited to you when mission complete. These two need to be addressed. I do not find fault with anything else concerning the mod. Just as this game was crawling with bugs out of the box, this mod needs some tweeks as well. I believe these fixes are forthcoming with an updated version. Until then, I choose to sail on with this mod.

Danelov
08-26-2006, 07:46 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifYes, I wait also this update, that was a great news by yesterday night.

AVGWarhawk
08-27-2006, 05:06 AM
Danelov,

Then we agree on the two bugs...small merchants will not go down, career start no credit for sinking ships bug...I believe we need to throw in the fact that the 8.8 cannon should be a bit more effective. Now, all we need to do is get a hold of the developers and advise corrections needed! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif