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freakvollder
07-16-2009, 12:11 PM
How do you use the Focke Wulf 190A in a combat area? Which settings do you use (throttle, manual ore auto PP, WEP on ore off, radiator, altitude and so on...) when you searching for opponents?

Regards

SILVERFISH1992
07-16-2009, 12:16 PM
Stay at 5000 meters and have the power at 100% and prop pitch at 90% and radiater closed.

When you attack use the WEP and and attack from the side or the front.

I could help you more if I knew what plane you were fighting against.

Wildnoob
07-16-2009, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by freakvollder:
How do you use the Focke Wulf 190A in a combat area? Which settings do you use (throttle, manual ore auto PP, WEP on ore off, radiator, altitude and so on...) when you searching for opponents?

Regards

I gonna pronunciate me, but only in the eastern front, as normally don't fly with the LW in the west because didn't devolped some satisfatory tactics, even my n00b ones.

well, the first thing is not enter in turning engaments.

most times I take off, enter in enemy territory at already 7000 meters and in online servers, keep making some circles to spot the tracers of the furbals below when are in a figther sweep. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

them for go down, I cut the trottle and full open the radiator, keep making some spiral turns to not get excessive speed, though when I'm getting more close to the ground, close the radiator, apply full trottle and engage the boost to attack my victim with at least 700 km/h of airspeed. just fire one time, if hit the enemy or not at same momment I pull the aicraft nose as deep as I can and trim the elevators to not get drag from them. climb until have about 330 km/h, after that I level up fast, trim the plane to gain speed fast, and when are at about 450 km/h repeat the procedure. do that until reach more them 6000 meters, at 6500 I are teorically safety from below pursuiters, level up and head for home, as they have engines are not their friends at this level, despite that the A models don't have very good high altitude performance, they are still superior to most VVS front line figthers in such condition.

this alone, of course, when in group I maintein a high cover fligth to "rescue" the attacker one if enemy planes try bring problems.

though is logic that there are a lot of factors in terms of combat tactics you can use, just wait for the answers from the real pilot's here, this is just a extremely superficial example of mine.

but normally against the VVS, is wat I do with the FW-190.

never turn as evasive maneuver, try run, and if you are caugth at very lower level, try run away, you won't manage to outrun a LA-5FN for example, but may have some time for a high altitude section came down to clear you from disangage to high altitude.

by the way, early in the war, against the early LA-5, Yak-7, P-39, P-40 and many others, you can outrun them even on deck, just close the radiator, add full power and trimmed the aicraft that with some distance you gonna manage to outrun your enemies.

key words for use the FW-190 in combat are have advantage in both the airspeed and altitude.

when you master it, and by the way, a very easy plane to fly, you can bring massive destruction to your enemies. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Choctaw111
07-16-2009, 12:55 PM
When I flew for Blue, the setting for the 190A were: Throttle 95% with boost, Prop Pitch 90, and rads 6. You could run it for the entire mission on these settings without overheating. If you needed extra temporary speed, close the rads and give it full throttle with boost.

Manu-6S
07-16-2009, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by SILVERFISH1992:
Stay at 5000 meters and have the power at 100% and prop pitch at 90% and radiater closed.

When you attack use the WEP and and attack from the side or the front.

I could help you more if I knew what plane you were fighting against.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

I disagree.

SILVERFISH1992
07-16-2009, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by Manu-6S:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SILVERFISH1992:
Stay at 5000 meters and have the power at 100% and prop pitch at 90% and radiater closed.

When you attack use the WEP and and attack from the side or the front.

I could help you more if I knew what plane you were fighting against.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

I disagree. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats how I do it.

Manu-6S
07-16-2009, 01:06 PM
1) Lone hunter

Stay high as Wildnoob says, but not above 6400m; so you can avoid trailing smokes.

Trailing smokes => SA for the enemy.

Stay in enemy territory, spiral to keep your SA and wait for a climbing enemy guy (slow and unaware). Keep your Radiator open and your throttle at 80%... you need you engine if you have to extend (full power, Radiator close)

WAIT, don't go on him until you are in a good position for the attack: then dive on him at full speed (6 o'clock, high or low, never at the same level), fire at 150m and climb at 45°, rebuild your SA and start again.

Go for unaware pilots if you are alone.

DON'T GO WITH HEADONS... you are in advantage, you don't need to give your enemy the opportunity to fire at you.

2) Squad tactics
Use Drag n' Bag tactics like you do in any faster plane.

JtD
07-16-2009, 01:10 PM
I usually fly it 105% power, wep on, rads open and manual pitch 100% on the A-4 and F-8. It's because usually I'm either fighting or climbing as hard as I can. Once I'm happy with my altitude, I go back to lower throttle settings like 60-90%, rads closed and no wep. If I have to run I give it all it has.

waffen-79
07-16-2009, 01:28 PM
You guys are going to high, do you all fly in HL online? are the missions coops?

for me 3800 - 4500 is more than enough, online dogfight maps, cockpit always on, SoV, Spits vs 109

What you do? short answer: BNZ

Throttle: 95%
Prop Pitch: 90%
Metanol: always on (as it only engages past 100%throttle)

Constantly rolling to scan the ground, softly left to right, you get the idea.

if you see a contact or a furball, your first move:

1.Is to Position yourself past the said contact

2.Dive always in direction to your base, friendlies, flak, etc.

Don't try to force a lead or lag manouver from the enemy's six, the armament of the 190 favours snapshots, so go for it.


regards

Freiwillige
07-16-2009, 02:25 PM
One key advancement was the kommandogerät (command-device), a mechanical-hydraulic unit that automatically adjusted engine fuel flow, propeller pitch, supercharger setting, mixture and ignition timing in response to a single throttle lever, dramatically simplifying engine control.[1] This could be considered a pioneering step towards the use of computerised "engine management" systems, as in modern automobile and truck engines.

Never go manual PP, Oleg modeled this correctly and you are not gonna out perform the Kommandogerat!

Wildnoob
07-16-2009, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by Manu-6S:
Stay high as Wildnoob says, but not above 6400m; so you can avoid trailing smokes.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

thank you very much for had mention this Manu-6S!

never imaginate, going to apply for my tactics. altough to tell the truth, I exagereted a little, in most times I go at maximum 6500 meters, but anyway still never considerate the contrails factor, really thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

equal and up to 6000 meters you already have the edge, the difference until 7000 is not so drastic and not having the contrails to make the enemy spot you so easly, so it's something that really wrote to be done.

K_Freddie
07-16-2009, 02:40 PM
As this is about Hunting AND/OR Engine management.. here goes nothing.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

What I do a lot online is...

Stay low at around 50m, so your prop wash doesn't kick up a sandstorm. The FW is fast when it's low and it's very safe 'on the deck'. Throttle 90%, Prop-Pitch auto, Radiators wide open - this will keep your engine just below temp overload.

Why this tactic is so sucessfull:-

- The FW is faster than most planes in low level flight.
- Your camo hides you from all except the expert eye. Don't fly low over water.
- Your all round view enables you to fly at this height with no stress. You see a diving bogey miles away.
- Most opponents are reluctant to go low, because they're scared of getting bounced, and most do http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
- Online you'll get a lot of stukas or bomb laden Red planes trying to sneak in low. These are easily spotted and are your cannon fodder. The amount of times I've sneaked under the above escort (~500-1000m) and nailed a 'low bomber', then 'just dissapeared' without the higher escort seeing a thing... I've stopped counting.


When I see a furball.. Throttle 100%
- I build my speed up and keep it up, flying low ( again at ~50m ) on the perimeter of the furball
- Most furballs will eventually come low, or someone will try to go low and escape. I would then beam in and take them out, or if it's a comrade been chased, suddenly relieve his persuer of a few crucial aircraft parts - They don't like this.

When I see at most 3 planes at around 1000m max height...
- As usual low, and get myself into position directly under them.
- Always doing a visual sweep as you might have an opponent who thinks like you on your tail, I'd go into a steady constant speed climb, and hit the last of the group.
- Fire a single burst (max 1 second) flip over and dive for the dirt.

It's not important to get the first kill (if you do that's OK), but it's more important, when there's a group, to damage as many aircraft as possible before they can turn on you. The FW is good at this, and it literally puts damaged planes out of the fight, allowing you to concentrate on the good ones.

In a general DF, you have plenty ammo - 1 seconds worth of spraying burst can hurt your opponent bad... use the ammo - It has a major 'negative' psychological effect on your opponent when they see lot's of blue tracers whizzing by. I do this many times just to rattle them. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

These tactics are borne from flying on ADW, where there is a death-kick (around 5 minutes). This type of server changes your tactics to something close to what is was like in WW2, as you do not want to be kicked, so do anything to 'stay alive'. Warning - Stress levels can be very high http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Manu-6S
07-16-2009, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by waffen-79:
You guys are going to high, do you all fly in HL online? are the missions coops?

for me 3800 - 4500 is more than enough, online dogfight maps, cockpit always on, SoV, Spits vs 109


I'm not really a fan of that server, I left it when I found that the quality of the pilots was low (but maybe now it's better, I can't know, I have problem with admins).

I could fly at 4km killing the Spit's guys who constantly were following the other extending 190s at 1km... pure DnB... and boring too.

BUT

You could find some very good guys... how to recognize them? They were flying Spit at least at 6km and I can assure you that that plane is unbeatable at that altitude: I made some good fight against some users of this forum (tomtheyak and fatcat99 above all), guys who have all my respect as pilots.

So IMO (I repeat, I fly there no more, I can't know exactly) you can say that 4km is enough since you can't find very good pilots. After all you need only a P51 or a P47 to be a killer in that server (my last missions were in a P51 IIRC). In those missionsets a P51 is untouchable if not by D9 (do they use still the '45 version?) or ta152H (limited, newbie die in in and they finish in 5 minutes... the only time I fled on that server I fought agaisnt a P51 at 13Km http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif )

Manu-6S
07-16-2009, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by Wildnoob:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Manu-6S:
Stay high as Wildnoob says, but not above 6400m; so you can avoid trailing smokes.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

thank you very much for had mention this Manu-6S!

never imaginate, going to apply for my tactics. altough to tell the truth, I exagereted a little, in most times I go at maximum 6500 meters, but anyway still never considerate the contrails factor, really thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

equal and up to 6000 meters you already have the edge, the difference until 7000 is not so drastic and not having the contrails to make the enemy spot you so easly, so it's something that really wrote to be done. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In SEOW BoB (the one with 30 Red vs 50 Blue) it's everyday a battle between 109Es and SpitIs for altitude.. engagement always at 6500, but then furball between 7500m and 5000m.

The only vision of a trailing smoke above you is a scaring thing... usually it's a mistake of the pilots above but sometimes you can use it as psicological weapon.

Think about it, 16 109 as escort at 6000m and one guy see a white trail at 3 o'clock... achtung and all the 109s are alarmed.

The Spits are so deadly at that altitude that 109 are diving away most of the time (because of the fuel issue too - we start missions at 50% of fuel, 7 minutes of fight over England)...

K_Freddie
07-16-2009, 03:11 PM
Ah yes.. flying high.

As we're not forced to stay high with the 8th tactical bombing formations (man!! I'd love this - it would add a whole new dimension to the game)

If you want to go high, the A6 is pretty good, but I've 'cut my teeth' on the A9, as it's a leeetle lovely 'booger'.

The A9 is as good as any plane right up to 7000m. It's a struggle to fly it at these alts, but it still can still outturn both the P51 and P47.. These a/c outshine the A9 as you go higher.
When up high you fly the A9 like a P51 keeping you speed up.. and it's a killer.
No elevator 'pulling', but use roll to turn and you're the 'top guy'. As soon as you lose the ad, put it into a dive and turn out at 5000m... and it's then your turn again.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Manu-6S
07-16-2009, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by K_Freddie:
Ah yes.. flying high.

As we're not forced to stay high with the 8th tactical bombing formations (man!! I'd love this - it would add a whole new dimension to the game)

If you want to go high, the A6 is pretty good, but I've 'cut my teeth' on the A9, as it's a leeetle lovely 'booger'.

The A9 is as good as any plane right up to 7000m. It's a struggle to fly it at these alts, but it still can still outturn both the P51 and P47.. These a/c outshine the A9 as you go higher.
When up high you fly the A9 like a P51 keeping you speed up.. and it's a killer.
No elevator 'pulling', but use roll to turn and you're the 'top guy'. As soon as you lose the ad, put it into a dive and turn out at 5000m... and it's then your turn again.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Do you mean Anton9? Not Dora9?

Anyway in good server you find bombers formation at 6000m (my squad is used to do it) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Wildnoob
07-16-2009, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by K_Freddie:
These tactics are borne from flying on ADW, where there is a death-kick (around 5 minutes). This type of server changes your tactics to something close to what is was like in WW2, as you do not want to be kicked, so do anything to 'stay alive'. Warning - Stress levels can be very high http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6650/99999999999999999999999c.jpg

just love the ones like that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

K_Freddie
07-16-2009, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by Manu-6S:
Do you mean Anton9? Not Dora9?

A9 as he was asking about the A-series.
I could have suggested the Doras, but left it..
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Wildnoob... that's not from ADW is it ??, as the last time I was on ADW (was along time ago), it's a free for all, you or your side plan your own tactics. Do anything (except cheat of course) to achieve the objectives.
What this does - in order to win it 'forces same side' international teamwork and the side that can do this efficiently wins.

Manu-6S
07-16-2009, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by Wildnoob:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K_Freddie:
These tactics are borne from flying on ADW, where there is a death-kick (around 5 minutes). This type of server changes your tactics to something close to what is was like in WW2, as you do not want to be kicked, so do anything to 'stay alive'. Warning - Stress levels can be very high http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6650/99999999999999999999999c.jpg

just love the ones like that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OMG!!!
IL2 == Quake3

I guess the winner are La7 and Spit25lbs...

Manu-6S
07-16-2009, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by K_Freddie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Manu-6S:
Do you mean Anton9? Not Dora9?

A9 as he was asking about the A-series.
I could have suggested the Doras, but left it..
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will try to outturn a P51 at that altitude, I knew that a A9 can't outturn a B17... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
In reality I've never tried to outturn anything in a A9 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

K_Freddie
07-16-2009, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by Manu-6S:
I will try to outturn a P51 at that altitude, I knew that a A9 can't outturn a B17... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
In reality I've never tried to outturn anything in a A9 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Instead of turning horizontal at this altitude, do the egg shaped ellipse turn by diving down and then coming up again.
If he goes higher, you just run away and turn around at few seconds later.. teasing until he(she) gets impatient.
Always set yourself up for a fleeting bypass burst... makes them very edgy as all it takes is a single 20mm hit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Wildnoob
07-16-2009, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by K_Freddie:
Wildnoob... that's not from ADW is it ??,

nahhh, that's just a obvios EXTREME HL arcade server.

Wildnoob
07-16-2009, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by Manu-6S:
I guess the winner are La7 and Spit25lbs...

incredible, the Spit 25 lbs was not avaliable last time I fly on it, just the MKVIII.

altough the LA-7, I-85 and Ki-84 and similary models are among the biggest stars of it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

K_Freddie
07-16-2009, 03:40 PM
Phew.. I thought one of the best server/online RT wars was 'scraping the barrel'.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Manu-6S
07-16-2009, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by K_Freddie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Manu-6S:
I will try to outturn a P51 at that altitude, I knew that a A9 can't outturn a B17... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
In reality I've never tried to outturn anything in a A9 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Instead of turning horizontal at this altitude, do the egg shaped ellipse turn by diving down and then coming up again.
If he goes higher, you just run away and turn around at few seconds later.. teasing until he(she) gets impatient.
Always set yourself up for a fleeting bypass burst... makes them very edgy as all it takes is a single 20mm hit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah Ok! A set of High and Low Yoyo http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
I agree, the problem is only if the guy in the P51 is not a patient one http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Wildnoob
07-16-2009, 03:45 PM
http://rapidshare.com/files/25.../Filme_0022.wmv.html

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif me broken the rules of that server, but please, don't tell to anyone.

K_Freddie
07-16-2009, 03:49 PM
I'm rather intrigued about the one condition..


No shooting planes with wings off or dead pilot

Can I shove an ice-cream into my forehead, or am I missing something really ingenious here ???
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

K_Freddie
07-16-2009, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by Wildnoob:
http://rapidshare.com/files/25.../Filme_0022.wmv.html

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif me broken the rules of that server, but please, don't tell to anyone.
Link doesn't work..

K_Freddie
07-16-2009, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by Manu-6S:
I agree, the problem is only if the guy in the P51 is not a patient one http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
99.999999999999% 'snap' with enough 'teasing and taunting'.. easy 'come and get me' target http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif
It's like fishing...

Manu-6S
07-16-2009, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by K_Freddie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Manu-6S:
I agree, the problem is only if the guy in the P51 is not a patient one http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
99.999% 'snap' with enough 'teasing and taunting'.. easy 'come and get me' target http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My fault, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Originally posted by Manu-6S:
I agree, the problem is only if the guy in the P51 is a patient one http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
fixed

Wildnoob
07-16-2009, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by K_Freddie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wildnoob:
http://rapidshare.com/files/25.../Filme_0022.wmv.html

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif me broken the rules of that server, but please, don't tell to anyone.
Link doesn't work.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

oh, sorry for had make you loose your time with something of mine mister Freddie. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

in a summary, me, in a P-51, targeting by deflection angle a I-85 (and missing it even with the K-14 gunsigth) coming from more them a 700 km/h dive from 6000 meters of altitude. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

but know, I think act in too radical way.

maybe sounds, sorry for the term, don't want to offend anyone, absolutely ridiculous for me, altough should respect all opinions. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

PS: but damm, can't understand how could people like of make imposition of real combat tactics to arcade ones like that, but wheatever...

K_Freddie
07-16-2009, 04:01 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
I've had a bottle + 1/2, and what you've said doesn't make sense to me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.. but I still understand what I'm saying/typing/banging this keyboard.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif
How much have you had ?
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Wildnoob
07-16-2009, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by K_Freddie:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
I've had a bottle + 1/2, and what you've said doesn't make sense to me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.. but I still understand what I'm saying/typing/banging this keyboard.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif
How much have you had ?
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

me?

ahhh, I don't need drink, have naturally all the effects of alchool and far much more. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Wildnoob
07-16-2009, 04:06 PM
that's how things should be done mister Freddie, you are the most sturdy living being ever. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

K_Freddie
07-16-2009, 04:07 PM
Talking about that... Don't you find that you 'fly' your best after a 'few' bottles/glasses http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
I do manage to pull off these really great 'stunts' while i'm 'driving' under the influence - there you go freakvollder, get a few bottles stocked up next to your PC... makes you invincible in a FW190 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

K_Freddie
07-16-2009, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by Wildnoob:
me?
ahhh, I don't need drink, have naturally all the effects of alchool and far much more. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://growabrain.typepad.com/growabrain/images/marijuana.jpg
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Wildnoob
07-16-2009, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by K_Freddie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wildnoob:
me?
ahhh, I don't need drink, have naturally all the effects of alchool and far much more. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://growabrain.typepad.com/growabrain/images/marijuana.jpg
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

I are feeling so much pain in my stomach and almost fell out of the chair, both for couldn't stop of laugth. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

K_Freddie
07-16-2009, 04:15 PM
Now you're telling me... pass it around http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Been there.. done that.... priorities change.. you know .. kids, school...etc

robtek1957
07-17-2009, 02:58 AM
@Freiwillige
quote:
".....Never go manual PP, Oleg modeled this correctly and you are not gonna out perform the Kommandogerat!"
That is afaik plain wrong!
With manual PP the 190 is much faster then with the KG!
As a rule of thumb i use 100%PP up to 400 km/h
and then 80% with good success, if one has spare time one can aways use intermediate steps.
Further i found that one can use wep + 103%throttle + cooling flaps open for indefinite time.

Gammelpreusse
07-17-2009, 04:27 AM
Originally posted by K_Freddie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wildnoob:
me?
ahhh, I don't need drink, have naturally all the effects of alchool and far much more. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://growabrain.typepad.com/growabrain/images/marijuana.jpg
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dammit, now I am jealous http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

ROXunreal
07-17-2009, 09:00 AM
I take off at full power + WEP without flaps providing the runway is long enough. Go to 400kmh then do a mini zoom climb at a bit less than 45° until I get down to about 260-270, level out, and repeat until I get to the altitude I want, usually 3500-4500 meters, depending on how high others in the server fly, I want to be at least 1500m above most of them.

While climbing I use 100% prop pitch for mini zoom climbs and 85-90% for picking up speed at level flight. I turn off WEP at about 1000m and at about 1500 meters I open radiator and lower throttle to 100%, and continue to climb the way I described until I get to my altitude. For level cruising I use 85-90% pitch and around 95% throttle, radiator open.

Now for hunting, I prefer attacking bombers from almost directly above or from their 2 or 10 o clock high. Fighters I prefer to approach from 5-6-7 and not directly from above as it makes them evade easier. When I start diving I lower prop pitch to 80% and adjust my throttle so I don't overspeed, radiator is fully open. Open fire at about 250 meters, pull up, close radiator, 110 throttle, WEP, PP to 100% and climb at a 45-60° angle. Now depending on the presence of other enemies I either continue to climb until I get down to 270kmh or I level out before at 350kmh if there are other threats around to have enough speed to evade.

I fly with open radiator and throttle not above 100% all the time except when zoom climbing or chasing someone or running away. When someone faster is chasing me I find the best option is turning around and going head on, for all the discouraging of head on attacks I find they suit me just fine in the 190 and even if I don't shoot or hit the target it's the best way to get some distance from them than just continuing running away from a faster airplane. The thing with headon attacks is to fire earlier, I fire at even 700-600 meters distance from the enemy. The swarm of tracer smoke confuses them about my location for a bit and/or scares them and makes them evade, either way we're talking about running away so even if they evade or I don't kill them it's good and will give me distance.

With closer enemies on your 6 it's hard, usually wobble all around and most average guys have a real hard time hitting me, then when they get really close, like 150-200meters drop throttle and deploy combat or takeoff flaps and do a roll or two, makes them overshoot or pull up. You get a chance to shoot but hell I usually don't manage to hit anything as my speed is too low and they usually pull up after overshooting, but at least some more time to get into my territory or to my base. Also the roll rate of the 190 is the holy grail of your protection and can be used to successfully run away if you watch the enemy plane closely and roll opposite of him all the time.

DKoor
07-17-2009, 09:06 AM
Hunt with 190A is exactly the same as with all other aircraft I fly.
The difference is only in technical nature (engine management).
I try to stay over 500kph at all times... that way I have better SA I always have a time for reaction.
BOOST engaged after boogies are spotted followed usually by shallow dive, prop pitch on auto all the time.

Come in fast riddle the target and fly away.
Attack pattern in all planes I fly.

Manu-6S
07-17-2009, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
Hunt with 190A is exactly the same as with all other aircraft I fly.

Come in fast riddle the target and fly away.
Attack pattern in all planes I fly.

+1

Wildnoob
07-17-2009, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
Hunt with 190A is exactly the same as with all other aircraft I fly.

Come in fast riddle the target and fly away.
Attack pattern in all planes I fly.

+2 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Trefle
07-17-2009, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
Hunt with 190A is exactly the same as with all other aircraft I fly.

Come in fast riddle the target and fly away.
Attack pattern in all planes I fly.

+3 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

freakvollder
07-18-2009, 01:57 AM
Oh wow! So many reply s – THANK YOU


I could help you more if I knew what plane you were fighting against.
fore Example a P51 ore a Spit IX ore a Tempest http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif - In the early war scenarios the FW190 is superior to the Enemy planes but I fly most on 44/45 maps on the western front.


key words for use the FW-190 in combat are have advantage in both the airspeed and altitude. I have read this in conclusion with the P51 on simHQ http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif – flying styles seem to be really close


Methanol: always on (as it only engages past 100%throttle)
You are sure? I think this is true for an 109?!?


Never go manual PP, Oleg modelled this correctly and you are not gonna out perform the Kommandogerat!
the Komandogerät is very goodhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


I take off at full power + WEP without flaps providing the runway is long enough. Go to 400kmh then do a mini zoom climb at a bit less than 45° until I get down to about 260-270, level out, and repeat until I get to the altitude I want, usually 3500-4500 meters, depending on how high others in the server fly, I want to be at least 1500m above most of them.

While climbing I use 100% prop pitch for mini zoom climbs and 85-90% for picking up speed at level flight. I turn off WEP at about 1000m and at about 1500 meters I open radiator and lower throttle to 100%, and continue to climb the way I described until I get to my altitude. For level cruising I use 85-90% pitch and around 95% throttle, radiator open.

Now for hunting, I prefer attacking bombers from almost directly above or from their 2 or 10 o clock high. Fighters I prefer to approach from 5-6-7 and not directly from above as it makes them evade easier. When I start diving I lower prop pitch to 80% and adjust my throttle so I don't overspeed, radiator is fully open. Open fire at about 250 meters, pull up, close radiator, 110 throttle, WEP, PP to 100% and climb at a 45-60° angle. Now depending on the presence of other enemies I either continue to climb until I get down to 270kmh or I level out before at 350kmh if there are other threats around to have enough speed to evade.

I fly with open radiator and throttle not above 100% all the time except when zoom climbing or chasing someone or running away. When someone faster is chasing me I find the best option is turning around and going head on, for all the discouraging of head on attacks I find they suit me just fine in the 190 and even if I don't shoot or hit the target it's the best way to get some distance from them than just continuing running away from a faster airplane. The thing with headon attacks is to fire earlier, I fire at even 700-600 meters distance from the enemy. The swarm of tracer smoke confuses them about my location for a bit and/or scares them and makes them evade, either way we're talking about running away so even if they evade or I don't kill them it's good and will give me distance.

With closer enemies on your 6 it's hard, usually wobble all around and most average guys have a real hard time hitting me, then when they get really close, like 150-200meters drop throttle and deploy combat or takeoff flaps and do a roll or two, makes them overshoot or pull up. You get a chance to shoot but hell I usually don't manage to hit anything as my speed is too low and they usually pull up after overshooting, but at least some more time to get into my territory or to my base. Also the roll rate of the 190 is the holy grail of your protection and can be used to successfully run away if you watch the enemy plane closely and roll opposite of him all the time.
very nice explanation of your tactics http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


hunt with 190A is exactly the same as with all other aircraft I fly.
The difference is only in technical nature (engine management).
I try to stay over 500kph at all times... that way I have better SA I always have a time for reaction.
BOOST engaged after boogies are spotted followed usually by shallow dive, prop pitch on auto all the time.

Come in fast riddle the target and fly away.
Attack pattern in all planes I fly.
How is it poseble to stay at 500+km/h in a combat area? How do you do it Dkoor?

When I fly the 190 I go high say 6000+ meters (not above 7000m) and reduce the throttle to 60-80% Radiator open AUTO PP and WEP off. So the engine can cool down and I am ready for fighting with a cool engine but my speed is something less than at full power. What do you think about this?

DKoor
07-18-2009, 02:51 AM
When I join a server I check the briefing to see where the hot spots are. So... when I see protect grid AD6/7 and attack vehicles & tanks in grid AB12/1, I know exactly where to go.
It is utterly important that I do that for two reasons.

1-I don't fly around like a fly without head, chances of being bounced while seeking combat area is very high
2-many times I actually dictate when and how do I enter the fight... (most of my kills are on unsuspecting enemy aircraft).
That's why I can be so fast in combat area... I climb to height and when entering the combat zone I try to enter it with combat speed too.
Altitude is chosen depending on the nature of a fight (early war, later war, eastern/western front etc.)...

IMHO this is essential. If I don't dictate the fight I'm screwed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . I can't stress enough how good it is to enter combat zone fast; not only I get to pick my target but also if someone is bouncing me he effectively wont make it if my SA is good - all I have to do is to roll dive and head to friendly lines in shallow dive at +700kph http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . FW-190's are biatches to catch http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif .

Manu-6S
07-18-2009, 04:55 AM
Originally posted by freakvollder:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">key words for use the FW-190 in combat are have advantage in both the airspeed and altitude. I have read this in conclusion with the P51 on simHQ http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif – flying styles seem to be really close </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not that the flying styles are similar...
Warbirds are ALL energy planes (don't be confused with turning fighters and energy fighters).
If you have more energy than your enemy then you are in tactical advantage.

Energy is directly proportional to speed (cinetic energy) and altitude (potential energy).

This rule is valid for any warbirds... WW1 planes too.

Kettenhunde
07-18-2009, 07:22 AM
Try using displacement rolls to neutralize an opponent’s turn advantage. Correctly executed you should retain your energy and still get angles on a target.

Know your V-speeds and fly the plane by them.

All the best,

Crumpp

BillSwagger
07-18-2009, 07:57 AM
This probably works in most planes too.
I climb to 5000- 6000M before i level off and cruise, but usually i'll get up to 6500 or even 7000M, and do a shallow dive to 6000M.

That usually gets me moving quickly, and at that altitude you will maintain your speed pretty well, only using 90% throttle.

Once i see an enemy worth attacking, i pour on the throttle and position myself for an attack.

Many times i will meet my attacker while i'm lower in altitude but higher in speed, which can be misleading so this can cause him to make a mistake early in the fight that puts me in an advantage right away.

Sillius_Sodus
07-18-2009, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by robtek1957:
@Freiwillige
quote:
".....Never go manual PP, Oleg modeled this correctly and you are not gonna out perform the Kommandogerat!"
That is afaik plain wrong!
With manual PP the 190 is much faster then with the KG!
As a rule of thumb i use 100%PP up to 400 km/h
and then 80% with good success, if one has spare time one can aways use intermediate steps.
Further i found that one can use wep + 103%throttle + cooling flaps open for indefinite time.

I also find it more effective to use manual pp with the 190A series. RPM's seem a little low with auto pitch, which makes the Anton slower than I like.

That said, you have to be much more careful since it is pretty easy to overspeed the engine with manual pp, and if you do that, it will quit in short order.

TS_Sancho
07-18-2009, 01:08 PM
Some excellent advice in the last few posts, the only thing I disagree with is using manuel PP over the Kommandogerat. The gain in acceleration and climb are minimal at best and are only helpfull in the slow end of the flight envelope where you should never be in combat in the first place. Leave it in auto, its one less thing to worry about as the designers intended.

As already stated...

Take your time, know the map and mission

Speed and altitude allow you to dictate the fight no matter what your opposition is flying

learn how and when to use the displacement roll (you'll never get stumped by a fast breaking spit again)

Learn high speed deflection shooting, the best kills are the ones where the other guy never saw you coming.

The best pilots dont turn with their opponents down to the deck, they kill you when your not looking and fly away

Billswagger has a very good point about trading some alt for speed and meeting your opponent slightly below. Its a nice trick for fooling your opponent into misjudging your energy state. People tend to freak out less about the opponent below them than above (e.g. they will stay offensive on the merge allowing you to exploit your superior energy state as oppposed to bugging out for the deck where if you follow you will lose your advantage and find yourself co-e)

robtek1957
07-18-2009, 02:20 PM
I can´t repeat it often enough:
max speed with 190a is only possible in manual pp!!!!

DKoor
07-18-2009, 03:19 PM
It is true that from 0kph up to IAS 400kph FW-190A6 has same acceleration on auto settings than on 100% prop pitch (where it IMHO really matters).

After it hits around 400kph it will have better acceleration on manual (100%).

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/DKoor/il2/a6_acceleration.gif

Tested from the runway start (0kph).
Draw your own conclusions http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

Trefle
07-18-2009, 04:00 PM
With the Fw-190 , i use "prop pitch" for climbing only , don't know if it is placebo effect or just psychological , but i feel it climbs better .

I also use it in landing approaches , cut the throttle and put 100% pp to decelerate quicker

Viper2005_
07-18-2009, 05:09 PM
Get fast.

Stay fast.

Attack in straight lines; make your coarse positioning turns a couple of km from the action.

Remember that you've got a lot of ammunition, and there's no point in bringing it home.

JtD
07-18-2009, 11:24 PM
I find you gain a lot from 100% manual prop pitch in the A-4 and F-8. These two need no particular prop pitch management, as there are no problems with overrevving or overheating the engine, but will fly a lot faster and climb considerable better. On the other ones I never really found it worth it, though there are some minor gains.

freakvollder
07-20-2009, 12:07 PM
http://acompletewasteofspace.c...le=viewtopic&t=13743 (http://acompletewasteofspace.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=13743)
In this post on “a complete waste off space – focke wulf 190 consortium” the people say that manual PP has an effect on speed and acceleration in the 190A.
BUT: I think that flying with AUTO PP has following pros:

1.the fuel efficiency is much better – you can fly for a longer time
2.with low RPM (and radiator open) the engine is cool and you can have more power output when you need it – surly you have a slower airspeed too
3.manual PP has no advantage under 400km/h IAS – that means that climbing should be the same as with Manual PP


Originally posted by Trefle:
With the Fw-190 , i use "prop pitch" for climbing only , don't know if it is placebo effect or just psychological , but i feel it climbs better .

I also use it in landing approaches , cut the throttle and put 100% pp to decelerate quicker
I think also I don`t know if it is a placebo http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif how climbs the 190A quickest? Who know it?




Originally posted by DKoor:
When I join a server I check the briefing to see where the hot spots are. So... when I see protect grid AD6/7 and attack vehicles & tanks in grid AB12/1, I know exactly where to go.
It is utterly important that I do that for two reasons.

1-I don't fly around like a fly without head, chances of being bounced while seeking combat area is very high
2-many times I actually dictate when and how do I enter the fight... (most of my kills are on unsuspecting enemy aircraft).
That's why I can be so fast in combat area... I climb to height and when entering the combat zone I try to enter it with combat speed too.
Altitude is chosen depending on the nature of a fight (early war, later war, eastern/western front etc.)...

IMHO this is essential. If I don't dictate the fight I'm screwed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . I can't stress enough how good it is to enter combat zone fast; not only I get to pick my target but also if someone is bouncing me he effectively wont make it if my SA is good - all I have to do is to roll dive and head to friendly lines in shallow dive at +700kph http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . FW-190's are biatches to catch http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif .

Oh that is a very useful tip, thank you. What is you combat speed you normally enter a combat zone, 500km/h+ ?



Originally posted by Manu-6S:
Warbirds are ALL energy planes (don't be confused with turning fighters and energy fighters).

this is very true http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



Originally posted by Kettenhunde:
Try using displacement rolls to neutralize an opponent’s turn advantage. Correctly executed you should retain your energy and still get angles on a target.

Know your V-speeds and fly the plane by them.

All the best,

Crumpp

What is a displacement roll? can you ore someone explain it to me. How can I use this manoeuvre effectively in the Focke Wulf?




Originally posted by BillSwagger:
This probably works in most planes too.
I climb to 5000- 6000M before i level off and cruise, but usually i'll get up to 6500 or even 7000M, and do a shallow dive to 6000M.

That usually gets me moving quickly, and at that altitude you will maintain your speed pretty well, only using 90% throttle.

Once i see an enemy worth attacking, i pour on the throttle and position myself for an attack.

Many times i will meet my attacker while i'm lower in altitude but higher in speed, which can be misleading so this can cause him to make a mistake early in the fight that puts me in an advantage right away.

Yeah that is a very funny thing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I have read somewhere that; - low and fast is better than high and slow - is this true fore some cases?

K_Freddie
07-20-2009, 12:17 PM
freakvollder: You may have noticed that people on these forums will argue until they're blue in the face.. and even then will continue stomping their feet.

The fact remains that there are no set rules of air combat, except to win by any means possible.

Flying by the book makes you predictable and 'dead'. Using you imagination makes you an unpredictable and difficult opponent, no matter what plane you fly.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Edt: If you want a great online war go here ADW (http://www.adw.alkar.net/en/)
If you join read the rules carefully. Joining up is the most difficult part, but it's very simple http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

It's 'Full real' stuff and very exciting ADW Escape ntrk (5.7MB - V4.08) (http://www.vanjast.com/IL2Movies/ADWEscape.zip)

This type of thing teaches you 'combat flying' more than HL could ever do.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

DKoor
07-20-2009, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by freakvollder:
http://acompletewasteofspace.c...le=viewtopic&t=13743 (http://acompletewasteofspace.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=13743)
In this post on “a complete waste off space – focke wulf 190 consortium” the people say that manual PP has an effect on speed and acceleration in the 190A.
BUT: I think that flying with AUTO PP has following pros:

1.the fuel efficiency is much better – you can fly for a longer time
2.with low RPM (and radiator open) the engine is cool and you can have more power output when you need it – surly you have a slower airspeed too
3.manual PP has no advantage under 400km/h IAS – that means that climbing should be the same as with Manual PP

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/DKoor/il2/fw190a6_climb.png

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/DKoor/il2/fw190a6_overheat.png

I just tested it in Device Link.

It seems that for climb there are only pros with manual (100% prop pitch).
Y axis represents values of your variometer gauge, those values are noticeable higher on 100% pp.

Note however, that acceleration in level speed up to 400kph is same on 100% or auto.

Second chart represents engine heat.
It is of little importance tho.

BTW best climbing speed in FW-190 is 266kph IAS.

Flight_boy1990
07-20-2009, 01:58 PM
Well,the first thing while you fly the FW-190 is that this aircraft is for team playing,which means that if you want to fly it right,you need a wingman.
It's not like the BF-109,which can take care of itself.
When flying with team in '44 and '45 servers,the best tacics with the FW-190 are:

-Stay high and fast.The speed is energy,the energy is altitude,the altitude is live,and vise-verca.

-Usually the '44 or '45 maps are Western front maps.Which means that it's full of allied astronaults who're pretty high,so the best tactic is "drag and bang".There one of the 190's is playing the pray,the other is the predator and waits away (while climbing) for the P-51,for exemple,to loose it's altitude/energy and then jumps on it and tares it apart.

-Of course BnZ is always the best tactic.

-If the area is dangerous,pick a target,jump on it and make a pass or two,and then dive shallow for the deck and run towards the nearest friendly airfield and full power,where you can climb again and go in.This is the so called "hit-and-run" tactic.

Now some general and offensive solo FW-190 Anton tactics:

-Stay always high.Not above 6900,or you'll start showing condenz and anyone will see you.

-Never fly the FW-190 at auto propeller pitch.I always fly with WEP-On+Prop.pitch at 100%,and radiator opened.

-The FW-190 best climbing speed is above 300 km/h.

-Best FW-190 A altitudes are between 3000 and 6500 m.

-Use BnZ,D&B,H&R ractics.Do not even think for Turn and Burn.

-The minimal safe speed at which you can do sharp turns or stuff like rolling scissors in the FW-190 is 400-450 km/h.

-Remember that in hot situations in FW-190 A,you can always outturn:
*A P-51
*A P-38
*A P-47
*A Tempest (but it's a bit hard in the FW-190 A-8,easier in A-9;and the easiest in D-9)

-Remember that you can always make a Spitfire to stall with high or low speed rolling scissor (this demands a lot of practic).This is again for emergency situations.

The most important thing is if you need the maximum of your plane abilities is to close the radiator.This will help you in various situations,like diving,gaining speed;doing sharp maneuvers and turn fighting.
If you have to turn fight in a 190,always do it to the left (the same for each axis plane),because of the torque.Just engage combat flaps and close the radiator.
The enemy is not stupid,and the allied a/c enemies will always turn to the right.But you must not play on their rules,so start turning left.This may turn into small rolling scissor on the firt pass.All you need to do is stay still,leave the enemy to try to turn on your six in the scissors,you just try to stay as slow as possible (deploy full flaps and gear) and he will just stall or overshoot.Then just continue the left turn untill you achieve your goal.
This way i managed to shoot down loads of airplanes (mostly of US or UK origin http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif ).

freakvollder
07-21-2009, 11:28 AM
Thank you Dkoor and thank you Flight_boy1990 for posting this interesting statements! This helps me a lot!

~S~

Trefle
07-21-2009, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:
-Never fly the FW-190 at auto propeller pitch.I always fly with WEP-On+Prop.pitch at 100%,and radiator opened.


really ? that is strange to me , i don't mean to contradict you cause you posted some very good advices , but i'm not sure this particular one is good for new people looking to fly 190's , first time i hear someone uses 100% pitch all the time .

Radiator opened adds some drag , not a great idea if you want to retain your energy the best during high speed encounters against US birds for instance , also radiator open means about 20km/h less for your top speed in level flight , better have your radiator closed and auto-pitch in combat , you will be faster on the long run as long as you keep your speed up .

100% pitch with Antons is needed for slightly better acceleration at lower speed and slightly better climbrate , it can also help to reach top speed quicker as well , but it's not necessary

Also flying always with 100% pitch , not only makes the engine overheat really faster , but unless you are climbing or trying to accelerate at low speed , it adds little benefits really . Also with 100% pitch , you will not sustain your high speed as well as with auto-pitch during shallow dives or conventional dives , auto-pitch will get you to maintain higher speeds longer than 100% prop pitch in a dive (even if your rpm is lower ) cause 100%pp acts as a brake when you exceed optmimum rpm during a dive , well this is what i experienced anyway

Kettenhunde
07-21-2009, 12:53 PM
Do you have some way to measure load factor in your game?

na85
07-21-2009, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by Kettenhunde:
Do you have some way to measure load factor in your game?

Not in real-time, that I know of.

Flight_boy1990
07-21-2009, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by Trefle:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:
-Never fly the FW-190 at auto propeller pitch.I always fly with WEP-On+Prop.pitch at 100%,and radiator opened.


really ? that is strange to me , i don't mean to contradict you cause you posted some very good advices , but i'm not sure this particular one is good for new people looking to fly 190's , first time i hear someone uses 100% pitch all the time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well i misexplained a bit.I mean when you're not in some situation,and don't need the maximum of your airplane abilities,then you fly with radiator opened.
Anyone in my squadron flies the FW-190 the same way as i said in your quote.Because online you need to take off,get as high as possible and run to the objective in matter of minutes.Of course when we achieve our needed altitude we're letting the engine to get some air and cool down,but still we fly at 100% prop.pitch all the time.Mainly because when you go really high,like between 6-7 km,because of the altitude,you're overcoming the overheating of the engine because the air temperature is very low (yes this is simulated ingame)+the FW-190 A engine can hold up pretty longer than the DB-60* when overheating (5+ minutes,compared to the 3 min max,for the DB engine ingame).
But when we attack in BnZ,of course we/i close the radiators and are doing one attack for one minute one after the other,because after the dive and climb,we are cooling down the engine for this one minute,and then when my turn comes,i attack.

About the auto propeller pitch on the FW-190's ingame,it is not fully finished conception for simulating the "Komandorat" (or what was it in german),and it's not giving you the max of your engine abilities.

deepo_HP
07-21-2009, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:
the FW-190 A engine can hold up pretty longer than the DB-60* when overheating (5+ minutes,compared to the 3 min max,for the DB engine ingame). imo, the 605-a's endurance in overheat is the same as bmw's - some (am and d) even longer, the 605-dc up to 6:30

Kettenhunde
07-22-2009, 02:45 AM
Not in real-time, that I know of.


That makes it very hard to fight the FW190.

Kettenhunde
07-22-2009, 02:58 AM
The FW-190 best climbing speed is above 300 km/h.


I don't know what method you used to arrive at this number. If it is accurate your FM's L/Dmax or thrust production is off somewhat which will affect everything else.

All the best,

Crumpp

All the best,

Crumpp

GH_Klingstroem
07-22-2009, 03:36 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:
-Remember that in hot situations in FW-190 A,you can always outturn:
*A P-51
*A P-38
*A P-47
*A Tempest (but it's a bit hard in the FW-190 A-8,easier in A-9;and the easiest in D-9)
QUOTE

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Now thats funny!

Gammelpreusse
07-22-2009, 04:46 AM
Originally posted by Kettenhunde:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The FW-190 best climbing speed is above 300 km/h.


I don't know what method you used to arrive at this number. If it is accurate your FM's L/Dmax or thrust production is off somewhat which will affect everything else.

All the best,

Crumpp

All the best,

Crumpp </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ketten, why don't you install the sim and give it a go, if only to see what all the fuss is about? I recon that would give you a much better basis to dive into the discussion popping up again and again, given your regular presence in such debates

Kettenhunde
07-22-2009, 06:00 AM
Ketten, why don't you install the sim and give it a go, if only to see what all the fuss is about?

I post to get the word out about the restoration.

BTW, when are you joining? If you join I will try to reload IL2 and fly it with you.

How is that?

All the best,

Crumpp

Flight_boy1990
07-22-2009, 06:37 AM
Originally posted by GH_Klingstroem:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:
-Remember that in hot situations in FW-190 A,you can always outturn:
*A P-51
*A P-38
*A P-47
*A Tempest (but it's a bit hard in the FW-190 A-8,easier in A-9;and the easiest in D-9)


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Now thats funny! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm,i met you a couple of times...I was the Dora-9 that jumped on you at 6.5 km one year ago,you broke left but i managed to pierce your wing...But the gong saved you.
Also again maybe one year ago,i was the A-9 that attacked you at 10 000m,on some winter map,i think it was Houffalize map.I shotdown on my own you and your wingman...You thought me of a P-51. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
I won't deny that you filed me with holes too...Once there was a flight of 4 P-51s from your squadron (forgot what was your tag),you were in it too.I got separated from my flight and was flying at 10 000 m in A-9,then decended at 5000.Then you and your flight jumped on me,and started doing boom and zoom attacks.You managed to rip off my whole left elevator,and also pierced my right wing and right wing tank.But my flight found me and covered me,so i managed to escape,and made it somehow to the base.
I miss the days when i was seeing you fly online.Fighting with you as a P-51 oponent was always interesting...
Now it's boring since i haven't met any dedicated P-51 flyer online from a long time (maybe my last encounter with you).
So knowing you,and you knowing me...I know that you can outturn a FW-190 in a P-51,and you should know me that i can outturn the planes you quoted,if i'm in a Focke-Wulf. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

PS:If i remember correctly,our meetings were mostly happening at the Czech dedicated or Wings Over Europe.

Gammelpreusse
07-22-2009, 07:40 AM
Originally posted by Kettenhunde:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Ketten, why don't you install the sim and give it a go, if only to see what all the fuss is about?

I post to get the word out about the restoration.

BTW, when are you joining? If you join I will try to reload IL2 and fly it with you.

How is that?

All the best,


Crumpp </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

End of the month, when money comes in again. Was the plan from the start =)

And I'll make sure to remind you of that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

K_Freddie
07-22-2009, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GH_Klingstroem:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:
-Remember that in hot situations in FW-190 A,you can always outturn:
*A P-51
*A P-38
*A P-47
*A Tempest (but it's a bit hard in the FW-190 A-8,easier in A-9;and the easiest in D-9)


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Now thats funny! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm,i met you a couple of times...I was the Dora-9 that jumped on you at 6.5 km one year ago,you broke left but i managed to pierce your wing...But the gong saved you.
Also again maybe one year ago,i was the A-9 that attacked you at 10 000m,on some winter map,i think it was Houffalize map.I shotdown on my own you and your wingman...You thought me of a P-51. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
I won't deny that you filed me with holes too...Once there was a flight of 4 P-51s from your squadron (forgot what was your tag),you were in it too.I got separated from my flight and was flying at 10 000 m in A-9,then decended at 5000.Then you and your flight jumped on me,and started doing boom and zoom attacks.You managed to rip off my whole left elevator,and also pierced my right wing and right wing tank.But my flight found me and covered me,so i managed to escape,and made it somehow to the base.
I miss the days when i was seeing you fly online.Fighting with you as a P-51 oponent was always interesting...
Now it's boring since i haven't met any dedicated P-51 flyer online from a long time (maybe my last encounter with you).
So knowing you,and you knowing me...I know that you can outturn a FW-190 in a P-51,and you should know me that i can outturn the planes you quoted,if i'm in a Focke-Wulf. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

PS:If i remember correctly,our meetings were mostly happening at the Czech dedicated or Wings Over Europe. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's about it really.. 1-vs-1.. a FW190 is the winner 90% of the time. 4-vs-1(FW190) the FW gets away alive http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
and this has nothing to do with the DM or FM... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Flight_boy1990
07-23-2009, 04:16 AM
Of course.It's not the plane that is important,important is the monkey that pulls the cords in the canopy. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

DKoor
07-23-2009, 04:38 AM
You guys ever flew a P-51D online?

Kettenhunde
07-23-2009, 04:59 AM
And I'll make sure to remind you of that

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif I will dig out my CD and reload it.

FatCat_99
07-23-2009, 05:57 AM
Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:

-Remember that in hot situations in FW-190 A,you can always outturn:
*A P-51
*A P-38
*A P-47
*A Tempest (but it's a bit hard in the FW-190 A-8,easier in A-9;and the easiest in D-9)


Well, as I'll have more time now maybe you should show me how you do it, especially in A8 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I'll make dogfight mission with these planes and we can try it tomorrow, tonight I might be busy with videos.

BTW I'm talkin' here only about Antons, Dora is something completely different.

FC

DKoor
07-23-2009, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by FatCat_99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:

-Remember that in hot situations in FW-190 A,you can always outturn:
*A P-51
*A P-38
*A P-47
*A Tempest (but it's a bit hard in the FW-190 A-8,easier in A-9;and the easiest in D-9)


Well, as I'll have more time now maybe you should show me how you do it, especially in A8 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I'll make dogfight mission with these planes and we can try it tomorrow, tonight I might be busy with videos.

BTW I'm talkin' here only about Antons, Dora is something completely different.

FC </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You feel sadistic, aren't you FC? http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/DKoor/smileys/demon2.gif

Jaws2002
07-23-2009, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:
-Remember that in hot situations in FW-190 A,you can always outturn:
*A P-51
*A P-38
*A P-47
*A Tempest (but it's a bit hard in the FW-190 A-8,easier in A-9;and the easiest in D-9)



From the list you put above here, any one of this planes can outturn another one under the right conditions.

A decent p-38 driver will outturn any A model 190. When it comes to pure turning contest the p-38 wins hands down.
But as a general rule anyone of those allied planes you posted above can easily outurn the FW-190A under the right conditions.

Gaston444
07-23-2009, 11:06 AM
It seems to me reading this, that the tactics for the FW-190A in this game are the opposite of what they were in real-life, as narrated on AH's "Aircraft and vehicles" Forum by an actual FW-190A-8 ace; upon seeing P-51Ds, downthrottle for lower speed, pop the flaps for low speed turning, and use turn-fighting at low speed exclusively.

At worse, forcing a series of head-to-heads was to the 190A's advantage... At best, the opponent could be lured into low-speed turning battles... (A few Russian types and the Spitfire IX could compete with the FW-190A at this, if sometimes barely, depending on specific variants...)

The Japanese were so impressed by the low-speed maneuverability of the 190A-5 they imported, that it could be (if marginally so, given the available time-frame)the inspiration for ALL 5000+ Nakajima-produced Model 52 Zeroes having been built with a re-designed 8" shorter tail of different pitch attitude, with completely different tail surfaces. (See my article on this discovery, with photos and new profile drawings, in the August 2009 issue of "Model Aircraft Monthly".)

This Western 190A-8 Ace also described using the widest of three types of ailerons to "catch" the low-speed stall, and that the A-8 was the best low-speed turn fighter of all FW-190A variants, especially with the broad wood prop...

Although the 190A could generate high Gs at high level speeds, it did not do so in a predictable linear fashion, and so tended to "black out" the pilot in an abrupt pitch-up. It also tended to "mush" forward as it blacked-out the pilot. It did this either by a rapid deceleration, that resulted in a comparatively poor high level speed turn rate, or it simply "gave out" in an abrupt stall, especially in right turns. At very high dive speeds the differences between aircraft types tended to narrow down, so its pitch-vs-trajectory authority performed closer to other aircraft types, but was usually inferior, dramatically so in pull-outs: Seemingly "hanging" nose-up in mid-air, while still going down, making a "perfect target"; see Russian evaluation below.

See the "tendency to black-out the pilot" here: http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/3950/pag20pl.jpg

See also Russian opinion of the actual FW-190A;

http://www.ww2f.com/russia-war...iences-fw-190-a.html (http://www.ww2f.com/russia-war/21828-russian-combat-experiences-fw-190-a.html)

Quote; "The FW-190 is more maneuverable in horizontal flight (than the Me-109)"

"The FW-190 does not like vertical combat"

"The FW-190 will inevitably offer turning combat at minimum speed"


The 190A could also more than compete in sustained turns with most of the Spitfire variants at low speeds:

http://img30.imageshack.us/img.../jjohnsononfw190.jpg (http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/4716/jjohnsononfw190.jpg)

Remember that the FW-190A-8 did better in low-speed sustained turn rate than this earlier variant, if maybe not by making a smaller actual radius.

Hopefully a more realistic FW-190A simulation will one day emerge...

Gaston

P.S. Note that US Navy tests of a fully dismantled F-3, ballasted as an A-5, were contested as to their roll rate findings by the UK's Farnborough test establishment during wartime. Aileron performance was crucial to low speed turn rate, so much of these tests are not valid. This particular aircraft never worked properly after being re-assembled. Farnborough's own turn test comparisons are often vague and misleading...

G.

SILVERFISH1992
07-23-2009, 11:14 AM
Hey, welcome to the Forum. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Gammelpreusse
07-23-2009, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by Gaston444:
It seems to me reading this, that the tactics for the FW-190A in this game are the opposite of what they were in real-life, as narrated on AH's "Aircraft and vehicles" Forum by an actual FW-190A-8 ace; upon seeing P-51Ds, downthrottle for lower speed, pop the flaps for low speed turning, and use turn-fighting at low speed exclusively.

At worse, forcing a series of head-to-heads was to the 190A's advantage... At best, the opponent could be lured into low-speed turning battles... (A few Russian types and the Spitfire IX could compete with the FW-190A at this, if sometimes barely, depending on specific variants...)

The Japanese were so impressed by the low-speed maneuverability of the 190A-5 they imported, that it could be (if marginally so, given the available time-frame)the inspiration for ALL 5000+ Nakajima-produced Model 52 Zeroes having been built with a re-designed 8" shorter tail of different pitch attitude, with completely different tail surfaces. (See my article on this discovery, with photos and new profile drawings, in the August 2009 issue of "Model Aircraft Monthly".)

This Western 190A-8 Ace also described using the widest of three types of ailerons to "catch" the low-speed stall, and that the A-8 was the best low-speed turn fighter of all FW-190A variants, especially with the broad wood prop...

Although the 190A could generate high Gs at high level speeds, it did not do so in a predictable linear fashion, and so tended to "black out" the pilot in an abrupt pitch-up. It also tended to "mush" forward as it blacked-out the pilot. It did this either by a rapid deceleration, that resulted in a comparatively poor high level speed turn rate, or it simply "gave out" in an abrupt stall, especially in right turns. At very high dive speeds the differences between aircraft types tended to narrow down, so its pitch-vs-trajectory authority performed closer to other aircraft types, but was usually inferior, dramatically so in pull-outs: Seemingly "hanging" nose-up in mid-air, while still going down, making a "perfect target"; see Russian evaluation below.

See the "tendency to black-out the pilot" here: http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/3950/pag20pl.jpg

See also Russian opinion of the actual FW-190A;

http://www.ww2f.com/russia-war...iences-fw-190-a.html (http://www.ww2f.com/russia-war/21828-russian-combat-experiences-fw-190-a.html)

Quote; "The FW-190 is more maneuverable in horizontal flight (than the Me-109)"

"The FW-190 does not like vertical combat"

"The FW-190 will inevitably offer turning combat at minimum speed"


The 190A could also more than compete in sustained turns with most of the Spitfire variants at low speeds:

http://img30.imageshack.us/img.../jjohnsononfw190.jpg (http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/4716/jjohnsononfw190.jpg)

Remember that the FW-190A-8 did better in low-speed sustained turn rate than this earlier variant, if maybe not by making a smaller actual radius.

Hopefully a more realistic FW-190A simulation will one day emerge...

Gaston

P.S. Note that US Navy tests of a fully dismantled F-3, ballasted as an A-5, were contested as to their roll rate findings by the UK's Farnborough test establishment during wartime. Aileron performance was crucial to low speed turn rate, so much of these tests are not valid. This particular aircraft never worked properly after being re-assembled. Farnborough's own turn test comparisons are often vague and misleading...

G.

Now that's a form of forum addiction I've rarely seen before.

Heliopause
07-23-2009, 11:32 AM
And keep the speed up in a dive so they won't catch you... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFr13YYX2go) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Gammelpreusse
07-23-2009, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by Heliopause:
And keep the speed up in a dive so they won't catch you... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFr13YYX2go) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

*lol*

Kettenhunde
07-23-2009, 12:26 PM
The 190A could also more than compete in sustained turns with most of the Spitfire variants at low speeds:

Nice post. It has been awhile since I have seen those reports.

IIRC, the FW-190G series used in the P47 evaluation was captured out of Sicily after being abandoned in need of repair.

You can do the math and see the FW-190 can sustain a high load factor than most Spitfire variants at speed. In that sense, I agree the FW190 could sustained level turn with a Spitfire and have a higher turn rate than the Spitfire. Your Johnson anecdote illustrates this well. It does not prove that the FW-190 had superior sustained level turn rate throughout the envelope. In that fight, Johnson realizes that the turn rate of the FW-190 will overtake him and we seen no proof the fight reaches speeds the Spitfire is superior.

The math most certainly tells us on the lift line or at the Spitfires V-speeds, it is physically impossible for the FW-190 to have a higher turn rate.

I have several of the initial encounter reports from the RAF with the FW-190. I think much of crisis of confidence over the Spitfire Mk V in Fighter Command was psychological as was the renewed confidence when the Spitfire Mk IX came out. It was not the airplanes, it was the men.

Why? Fighter aircraft performance just does not work that way. Performance differences have to be very large to be noticeable, on the order of 10%-30% depending on the characteristic. Differences that large just did not exist between the FW-190 and Spitfire.

I think people confuse the term maneuverability with sustained level turn too. They are not the same thing.

The "blacking out" while interesting does not say much about the FW-190 as a fighter that is usable either. In fact it says more about the pilot than the airplane. Human Physiology tells us that a semi reclined position like the FW-190's cockpit is more resistant to G-lock than sitting upright in a chair like the P-47. If the P47 is outturning the FW-190, it is pulling a higher load factor.

The math will also tell you that the FW-190A8 was the best turning Anton. The A8 was considered a hot aircraft in the FW-190 equipped Jadgeschwaders to the point there was resistance to the first Dora’s that arrived to replace it.

The math also backs up the fact the FW-190 was fully capable of taking on it design contemporaries on an equal footing. We agree on that!

All the best,

Crumpp

Trefle
07-23-2009, 12:55 PM
IMHO there are very few chances any Fw-190 Anton could sustain low speed turns with Sptifires or Yaks , or Lavochkins for that matters , unless you put total noobs in the Spits or Yaks

When in the report , they say the 190 turn better than 109 , either the guy has drunk too much , or he was talking about high speed turns, cause we have the figures of turn time between 109 and 190 and there is no way any 190A will outturn any 109F/G/K at LOW speed really , no chance whatsoever unless you put Mg-151 pods on that 109

Just look at the weight of the 190 aircraft (power to weight ratio .. average acceleration at low speed .. poor climbrate v Spits .. ) , the fact that Antons bleed lots of speed during low speed manoeuvers and have high stall speed ... the fact that it sucks in the vertical at low to medium speed (i am not talking about high speed zooms where the 190 is excellent obviously ) , the fact that it's turning time at 1000m (including A8 ) is minimum 5 seconds (talking about large differences .. ) more than a Spitfire VIII ...

really , one can come up with all the bits of reports with unclear sentences and statements where it is not specified at which speed and altitude the Spit was outturned , where it is not specified which pilot did it and how many hours of training he had in his plane , and reports that contradict dozens of German pilots interviews an combat reports where it is absolutely clear they had to engage with speed/altitude or break off/dive , not to mention the official doctrine of the era where it was clearly specified that 190 were aircraft to be kept fast in order to show their best manoeuverability at higher speeds .

Either someone just reinvented the wheel just now , or maybe everything i read since a couple of years now were fake propaganda books .

If anything , if you manage to be succesful within the IL-2 game at low speed fighting in the 190 against turn and burn planes , it means your opponents needs an awful lot more training than yourself to say the least , and it also means you could do much better by using the same strategy with another type of aircraft that was designed to be effective at this particular low speed dogfighting at low altitude .

Exceptions to the rules always happened (see M.H Ostermann outturning I-16's in his 109 F2 ) , especially since in real life , the skills of the pilots made a larger difference (very few or barely any WWII pilots would fly his airplane to the physical limits all the time like we do in the sim .. ) , and you never know in which state the engine or the pilot that was outturned was in , if he was suprised at the last moment or not etc.. . I also see no mention of the distinction between low speed "instantaneous turn" or "sustained turn" , there is quite a difference .. often with a good instantaneous turn you will manage to get a firing solution , that doesn't mean you outturned him

You can read an interview on the lend-lease webste where a Soviet pilot talk about mock dogfight between P-39 and Yaks , Yaks was the better turner , but in his P-39 , he said he outturned them everytime because he was more skilled/experienced with his plane . Does that make the P-39 a good aircraft to dogfight near stall speed ? perhaps .. Is it smart to adopt this strategy with the P-39 if you have the choice, knowing that a slight mistake and you're in a flat spin close to the ground ? i don't think so .

Why would someone refuse to use the advantages of his aircraft and do not fly it on its strengths ?

Are the strengths of the 190A , low speed acceleration , tight turnrate at low speed , low stall speed , good climbrate and ability to keep energy during vertical or horizontal manoeuvers at low speed ? I doubt but i respect people's opinion or desire to get a "challenge"

DKoor
07-23-2009, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by Trefle:
IMHO there are very few chances any Fw-190 Anton could sustain low speed turns with Sptifires or Yaks , or Lavochkins for that matters , unless you put total noobs in the Spits or Yaks +1

Ha... online I've seen people in 109's who turn with Spitfires.. and those Spitfires that reverse their turns vs Bf-109's. And got shot down by 109's in more or less horizontal mix-it-up.
Reversing the turn in a better turning plane is no.1 thing that you don't do...
TBH I don't know who were worse "pilots", those aces in 109's who get their arses involved in turnfest with Spits in the first place or noobs in Spitfires who actually lose that combat http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/DKoor/smileys/shrug.gif .

Now... that also goes for 190 (instead of 109) just 190 is worse than 109 and it takes great skill actually to lose a turning combat vs 190 in a Spitfire, Yak, P-39 whatever.
A school example of anti talent, it goes beyond being a noob.

Flight_boy1990
07-23-2009, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by Trefle:
IMHO there are very few chances any Fw-190 Anton could sustain low speed turns with Sptifires or Yaks , or Lavochkins for that matters , unless you put total noobs in the Spits or Yaks

FW-190 have chances to fight pretty well in maneuverable combat against Spitfires.Like mix from diving+rolling scissors+short tight turns.
And again,depending on the monkeys who fly them,the 190 can outturn some Spitfires.
But turn fghting with Lavochkin or Yak,while you are in 190 is pure sickness. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Flight_boy1990
07-23-2009, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by FatCat_99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:

-Remember that in hot situations in FW-190 A,you can always outturn:
*A P-51
*A P-38
*A P-47
*A Tempest (but it's a bit hard in the FW-190 A-8,easier in A-9;and the easiest in D-9)


Well, as I'll have more time now maybe you should show me how you do it, especially in A8 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I'll make dogfight mission with these planes and we can try it tomorrow, tonight I might be busy with videos. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure,tell me the hour for tomorrow.
But my duel rules are:
Spawn 500m from each other,headon no shooting.3 Rounds,25% fuel.That's the classic Il-2 duel.
I'll fly the A-9,you take the P-38 L.I'll be happy to show you what the A-9 can do.

But i cannot see what this will prove in here,when you lose. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Originally posted by Jaws2002:
From the list you put above here, any one of this planes can outturn another one under the right conditions.
Of course,that's why i said that it depends on the pilot and not on the airplane.Those airplanes,when compared with the 190 are almost equal from performance point of view.

Viper2005_
07-23-2009, 05:38 PM
Winning duels hasn't got a lot to do with real combat - SA doesn't factor because you both know it's strictly 1v1.



-Remember that in hot situations in FW-190 A,you can always outturn:
*A P-51
*A P-38
*A P-47
*A Tempest (but it's a bit hard in the FW-190 A-8,easier in A-9;and the easiest in D-9)

This really depends upon speed and altitude, even if you're approximately co-E.

It also strongly depends upon which model you're facing.

P-47D late vs A8 isn't fun, even at relatively low level. Good luck trying it on at 7 or 8 km...

Mustang IIIs are death at most altitudes (the Mustang III is just a P-51B in RAF service, though Oleg has only modelled them at +25 psi).

I somehow suspect that you can't really out turn a Tempest either; it's much easier to push the 190 to the limit and then accurately hold on to the limit, so you'll generally win the argument, but I think that the Tempest's capability is probably superior provided that it's clean and flown by somebody capable of accurately holding the limit.

Of course, in a really hot situation, you're probably not co-E...

IME, if you get slow then the P-51 will give a good account of itself against the A9 provided that you use flaps and don't get caught in a rolling fight. It's not a good idea of course, because the 190 only has to get lucky once.

I've flown these matchups from both sides.

As for the P-38, there don't seem to be as many really dedicated P-38 pilots as there were a few patches ago. IME the P-38 has always been pretty deadly in the right hands, although quite how those pilots manage to do well in it has always eluded me...

na85
07-23-2009, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by Viper2005_:

As for the P-38, there don't seem to be as many really dedicated P-38 pilots as there were a few patches ago. IME the P-38 has always been pretty deadly in the right hands, although quite how those pilots manage to do well in it has always eluded me...

+1

I have a lot of respect for the flying skills of people who do well in the P-38. There are a couple of guys out there who can really make it shine.

Myself, I've found that the P-38 vs 190A matchup is surprisingly well balanced. With two pilots of equal skill I would say the 190 has a small advantage, except maybe down on the deck where the 190 does not have the luxury of escaping in a high speed dive.

I've downed many P38s in an Anton using vertical tactics and the 190's roll rate, but just today I downed a 190 in a low speed turning contest while flying a P38 on spits/109s.

Flight_boy1990
07-23-2009, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by na85:
but just today I downed a 190 in a low speed turning contest while flying a P38 on spits/109s.
You missed to say that he was turning right.

na85
07-23-2009, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by na85:
but just today I downed a 190 in a low speed turning contest while flying a P38 on spits/109s.
You missed to say that he was turning right. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't even know what you're talking about.

He was turning many different ways.

Flight_boy1990
07-23-2009, 09:44 PM
He paniced,which leads me that he was not a good 190 flyer.
Anyway,a good FW-190 pilot will always turnfight to the left,or use the fast roll for the rolling scissors in such situation.

na85
07-23-2009, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:
He paniced,which leads me that he was not a good 190 flyer.
Anyway,a good FW-190 pilot will always turnfight to the left,or use the fast roll for the rolling scissors in such situation.

How do you know he panicked? Were you there? Maybe he tried going left. Maybe he tried many kinds of scissors.

Also rolling scissors does not require good aileron roll rates. Flat scissors requires that. Rolling scissors favor aircraft with better sustained climb.

Go away little boy. Stop trying to peddle your agenda.

Flight_boy1990
07-23-2009, 09:57 PM
Well,you're right...I wasn't there.
But i know that if i was that 190,you was about to be the one who would 've been shotdown with the flat-rolling-spiral whatever you call it,scissors. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

I can proove it to you.

na85
07-23-2009, 09:59 PM
I'm really not interested in ego-stroking, thanks.

My point was simply to illustrate that the 38 can and has shot down 190's in low speed turning contests online. So if you could stfu that'd be great. kthxbye.

Flight_boy1990
07-23-2009, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by na85:

Go away little boy...So if you could stfu that'd be great. kthxbye.

You know you sound like a racist.
BTW the P-38 had/is/will be shooting down Focke Wulfs.

Anyway,i forgot that when you're arguing with somebody,now is very modern to call him "boy" or "baby" in order to look like you're more mature.
FYI a younger than you,doesn't mean uneducated.
Now something dedicated to you:
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm63/GringoBG/idontlikep-38.jpg

Peace out. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Kettenhunde
07-23-2009, 10:38 PM
Airplanes achieve best performance at a specific V-speed. That is how pilots fly them and fight them.

The Spitfires series V-speeds occur at a much slower velocity than the FW-190's series. If the FW190 tries to fly the Spitfires V-speeds, he will most likely lose the fight and vice versa.

Because of this fact, the Spitfire always has the option to go slower and win the sustained level turning fight. What the sustained performance of the FW-190 can do is force the Spitfire pilot to slow down. The FW-190 can then use his faster speed to take the vertical from him.

All the best,

Crumpp

Gaston444
07-24-2009, 02:44 AM
The math doesn't tell the whole story, Crumpp.

An overlooked factor could be the pilot lingo called "hanging on the prop". Because the aircraft is tracted from the front, the center of gravity is behind the thrust point and allows, on some aircrafts more than others, to "tilt" the thrust axis off-center to the "real" trajectory. Thus "hanging on the prop"...

The thrust axis being slightly tilted to the trajectory, it encounters a slanted, thus slower, relative airflow, perhaps increasing the available acceleration at comparatively little cost in drag.

I also think changes in low-speed turn performance is not strictly linear with weight. At high speeds, it could be another story, which is why the FW-190A performs in line with the expected large turn radiuses at high speeds, despite light and pitch-responsive elevators even at these speeds. In the FW-190A at high speeds, the pitch is heavy or light(depending on trim), but pulling too hard at high speeds easily creates a sudden pitch-up/wing-drop or a mush, much more so than other types... See how the exact same principle applies vertically, with the difference that usually no flick-stall on one wing occurs, owing to the symmetry of wingloads during a dive pull-out:

E. Brown.: "The FW-190A is extremely vulnerable during dive pull-outs, and care has to be taken not to kill speed with excessive sinking."

Read the part in the Russian evaluation about the aircraft's high speed handling;

"However, the FW-190 is never able to come out of a dive below 300 or 250 meters (930 ft or 795 ft). Coming out of a dive, made from 1,500 meters (4,650 ft) and at an angle of 40 to 45 degrees, the FW-190 falls an extra 200 meters (620 ft)."

Note that this actually means falling an extra 620ft AFTER the nose is LEVEL or UP!: This is while coming OUT of the 45° dive!

As for sustained low speed turn rates, the climbing ability of an aircraft will not predict how well it will keep its speed in a slow speed turn. The Merlin P-51, for instance, does not have a great climb rate, but it has a tremendous ability to sustain speed in turns, so much so that even though it is one of the worst-turning aircraft at most medium speeds, it can complete its larger turning circle faster, "out-turning" a smaller radius. It does need however to wiggle its nose or use flaps to gain lead from the "cold" lag side(outside of the turn)... One pilot reported turning with a Me-109G for fifteen minutes(same direction!), and stalling six times every time he tried to gain lead...

This was from the Mike Williams site where about 1200 P-47 and P-51 combat reports are compiled. Having read them all, many surprising conclusions jumped out at me;

-The Me-109G generally cannot compete with the P-47 in turns, but is more equal to the right.

German tests of a captured needle-prop P-47D Razorback confirm this: In "On Special Mission: KG 200", they state flat-out; "The P-47D out-turns the Me-109G."

I would quibble for some exceptions in lower speed or climbing turns to the right, but these circumstances seem rare in combat...

-The FW-190A easily competes with the P-47D in turns (no surprises here!), and this parity increases to a clear 190A superiority as the summer of 1944 turns into the Fall. Late A-8s with wide-blade props were still rare then, and the later bubbletop P-47D therefore seems not to be as good a dogfighter as the Razorback version.

-No clear admission of the P-51 being out-turned by the 190A, but the P-51 often "loses" it near the ground, except at high speeds where the 190A's poor turns simply cannot compete without reversals...

-The Me-109G can often compete with the P-51 in turns, and late '44s models can actually catch up to the P-51 in turns with better acceleration. Generally speaking, many prolonged P-51/109G battles are an interminable affair that can last an incredible fifteen minutes in ONE turn direction, with the Mustang having a lot of trouble "closing the deal" because of its slightly larger but faster turn radius. This requires a severe last-second lead angle, often achieved with a risky deployment of flaps at low speeds.

The Mustang usually wins near the ground, where the 109G can no longer compensate for its lack of turn acceleration by spiralling downward... While spiralling down the 109G can out-turn it, but being below this matters little... A witness to Oseau's end; "The P-51s forced him into a turning dogfight. Each turn became tighter, and the Bf 109(G6AS!) slowed down, more so than his adversaries... Oseau was probably shot down near the ground." Jagdwaffe.Defending the Reich. Page 202.

Leo Schuhmacher of II./JG 1 reacted to this combat as follows; "Several times I had said to Oseau that the FW-190 was better than the Bf 109, but being an old 109 pilot, he preferred it."

As for quickly ending turning contests with the 109, no such extended fights for the P-47, since the 109 gives up the turning contest within 90 seconds (or about 3 X 360° turns in the same direction at most).

Here's the link to the P-47 encounter reports;

http://www.wwiiaircraftperform...counter-reports.html (http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/p-47-encounter-reports.html)


Gaston

P.S. The "known" turn times that reveal higher turn times for the FW-190A than for the Me-109G can only have been made at high speeds, or by captured machines with unfamiliar pilots.

Gunther Rall himself said he could barely out-turn the FW-190A-3 with a Me-109F! The A-8 was better than the A-3 at low speed turning combat, and the Me-109G was much worse than the F!

The idear that the Me-109G or the P-51D can out-turn at low speed and altitude, in level turns, the FW-190A-8, even one with four cannons and a narrow-blade prop, is a bit fanciful. Now add the broad wood blade prop, and the resulting account from an actual 190A-8 ace is a full reversal from a tailing P-51D in two 360°s at low speed near the ground. That's the same ace who downthrottled, slowed down, and popped the flaps when he saw the ennemy...

G.

Kettenhunde
07-24-2009, 03:23 AM
The math doesn't tell the whole story, Crumpp.

I have not found an instant where it does not yet.

In our members section, there are some very good performance analyses of the FW-190 vs contemporary opponents. I think you would enjoy them.

You are correct in that there is a difference power on and power off in any aircraft performance. Using forces required it is not hard to predict performance in any aircraft.

The Focke Wulf was fully capable of meeting its design contemporaries on equal footing. It was an air superiority fighter by design.

Like any aircraft, it was designed to sustain performance at specific V-speeds and to be fought at these speeds.

For example, the Merlin powered Spitfires achieved best rate of climb at ~158mph EAS while the FW-190 achieved it at 25 mph faster at ~185mph IAS.

Flying outside of those speeds means your aircraft will not achieve maximum performance and my earlier comments apply.

All the best,

Crumpp

DKoor
07-24-2009, 05:17 AM
Problem with these field reports (not saying they are wrong mind you) is that they are just too much generic.

Me-109G? P-47? ...
Difference between Me-109G and another Me-109G is just like when we compare a P-38 and a P-47. Huge gaps in performance and handling. One should also add particular specimen performance in equation on top of everything... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

FatCat_99
07-24-2009, 05:28 AM
Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FatCat_99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:

-Remember that in hot situations in FW-190 A,you can always outturn:
*A P-51
*A P-38
*A P-47
*A Tempest (but it's a bit hard in the FW-190 A-8,easier in A-9;and the easiest in D-9)


Well, as I'll have more time now maybe you should show me how you do it, especially in A8 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I'll make dogfight mission with these planes and we can try it tomorrow, tonight I might be busy with videos. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure,tell me the hour for tomorrow.
But my duel rules are:
Spawn 500m from each other,headon no shooting.3 Rounds,25% fuel.That's the classic Il-2 duel.
I'll fly the A-9,you take the P-38 L.I'll be happy to show you what the A-9 can do.

But i cannot see what this will prove in here,when you lose. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Spawn 500m from each other ??? I have never saw competition duel map with such close spawn. 5000m is closer to what is used in competitions.

Do you mean P-38L_Late or P-38L, if what you want to fight is P-38L than you made not so brave but wise choice. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Anyway, I'll make map with all FW's available and selection of allied planes. Air start at 1000m. I'll be in HL after 22.00CET and you will be able to show me what you can do in FW.

If you are really as good as you claim I'll make a video in your honor and put it on YouTube http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Jaws2002
07-24-2009, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:
Well,you're right...I wasn't there.
But i know that if i was that 190,you was about to be the one who would 've been shotdown with the flat-rolling-spiral whatever you call it,scissors. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

I can proove it to you.


Look Gringo. Flying the FW-190 and getting kills, is not something to write home about anymore. The FW-190 stoped being an exclusive bird in this game three four years ago. Five -six years ago there were very few people flying it and those deserve a salute. Nothing interesting any more about flying FW-190. It was changed/improved enough to make flying FW-190 a boring experience.

So if you think that, if you can fly and kill in A9, makes you someone to bow down to or something, you should go out more. Fly other planes from time to time and you'll understsand that killing in FW-190 is not as big a deal as you think it is.

The most boring people on this forum (and in most aircombat simulations) are those that fly a single plane and always think that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.

DKoor
07-24-2009, 10:18 AM
Just saying...

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/DKoor/il2/a9_p38l_acceleration.png

...in kph IAS.

P-38L represents 'vanilla' P-38L.
Difference between P-38L_LATE and FW-190A9 acceleration cannot be charted http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif .
So good luck dogfighting a P-38L_LATE in FW-190A9 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif .

PS. when FW-190A9 carries 50% fuel as represented on the chart that means it carries something in region of 197 liters of fuel, while P-38L on 25% carries 285 liters of fuel. So for full 'fair' dogfight P-38L should actually be loaded with some 85 liters less.

Long story short P-38L should be actually loaded with 18% fuel from full amount in order to match FW-190A9's fuel quantity in liters.
Even that is few liters of fuel more than A9 on 50% fuel.
That should be kept on mind too.

JtD
07-24-2009, 11:16 AM
I don't really think acceleration is all. In a turnfight between the 190 and the P38, much depends on the altitude. It's easy to underestimate the -38, but it's also easy to overestimate.

I'd like to know the outcome, track included, please!

DKoor
07-24-2009, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by JtD:
I don't really think acceleration is all. In a turnfight between the 190 and the P38, much depends on the altitude. It's easy to underestimate the -38, but it's also easy to overestimate. Good points. Acceleration isn't everything that is true... but when combined with other factors picture is quite clear.

I'll try my best to paint the whole picture now http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif .

If flat horizontal turn is concerned, I believe that 38 is superior providing they have same amount of load in kg (i.e. not situations where FW with 250kg load fights a 38 with 600kg load).
I said believe because I never really had a chance to test it, so I'm speaking from personal limited experience only. Doesn't count much, I know.

About RoC, 38 is without doubt superior.

From 0-10000m alt FW is superior in speed roughly on some 35% altitudes while 38 holds superiority at about 65% of altitudes.

38 is superior in acceleration.

FW has superiority in high speed agility.

FW has superior dive speed endurance.

Not sure about which fighter dives faster, but judging solely by acceleration and weight, it might be 38.


I'd like to know the outcome, track included, please! I second that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif.

BillSwagger
07-24-2009, 01:49 PM
38s and FWs this week.

as for fuel load, how long could fly a P-38 on 25%, vs 190A9 with 50%.

If they carried the same fuel load which plane is more efficient with that fuel load??

I know weight is a big concern in a dog fight, but so is having gas to run your engine(s).

I just wondered and many times i can get away with only taking a quarter tank, and in a P-47 that will last me over 30 minutes with full power engaged.

Its when i eat a couple rounds, and some fuel leaks, then i really notice a difference in flight time.

DKoor
07-24-2009, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by BillSwagger:
If they carried the same fuel load which plane is more efficient with that fuel load?? It is not hard for me to check... but what do you want - combat settings all the way, then see which one holds out longer in the air, or cruising settings?
Can check with with only a few liters error http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif. That means result will be in +-2-3 minutes region tops. Quite accurate.

I tell you, from what I saw (limited mind you) they both just "eat" fuel on combat settings. Very thirsty.

BillSwagger
07-24-2009, 02:09 PM
combat settings would say a lot more than cruising.
I could probably extend a quater tank for an hour or two if i had to.

Also, i noticed in FMB you can set fuel load to other numbers, like 20 or 30 instead of the 25% increments. Do you have any idea if the mission recognizes those integers, or does it revert to the nearest 25% increment.


BTW, altitude will be a factor, so just make it a medium number like 4000M.

DKoor
07-24-2009, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by BillSwagger:
combat settings would say a lot more than cruising.
I could probably extend a quater tank for an hour or two if i had to.

Also, i noticed in FMB you can set fuel load to other numbers, like 20 or 30 instead of the 25% increments. Do you have any idea if the mission recognizes those integers, or does it revert to the nearest 25% increment. Game recognizes exact fuel % number.
You can set 1% fuel for that matter, it will be recognized.



BTW, altitude will be a factor, so just make it a medium number like 4000M. Ok.

antred
07-24-2009, 03:24 PM
I definitely want to see the outcome of this one. Fingers crossed for whoever pilots the P-38! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DKoor
07-24-2009, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by antred:
I definitely want to see the outcome of this one. Fingers crossed for whoever pilots the P-38! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif It was a no-go... I was at HL for the time, so I actually served as a target drone for FatCat since FlyBoy didn't showed up.
Seriously we had a good time, it was a real eye opener to me to see just how rusty my dogfight skills are http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .
FatCat clearly out edged me in dogfighting skills so the results in terms of some conclusive answers to which fighter out turns which and other important matters are simply unreliable at best.

Flight_boy1990
07-24-2009, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by FatCat_99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FatCat_99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:

-Remember that in hot situations in FW-190 A,you can always outturn:
*A P-51
*A P-38
*A P-47
*A Tempest (but it's a bit hard in the FW-190 A-8,easier in A-9;and the easiest in D-9)


Well, as I'll have more time now maybe you should show me how you do it, especially in A8 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I'll make dogfight mission with these planes and we can try it tomorrow, tonight I might be busy with videos. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure,tell me the hour for tomorrow.
But my duel rules are:
Spawn 500m from each other,headon no shooting.3 Rounds,25% fuel.That's the classic Il-2 duel.
I'll fly the A-9,you take the P-38 L.I'll be happy to show you what the A-9 can do.

But i cannot see what this will prove in here,when you lose. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Spawn 500m from each other ??? I have never saw competition duel map with such close spawn. 5000m is closer to what is used in competitions.

Do you mean P-38L_Late or P-38L, if what you want to fight is P-38L than you made not so brave but wise choice. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Anyway, I'll make map with all FW's available and selection of allied planes. Air start at 1000m. I'll be in HL after 22.00CET and you will be able to show me what you can do in FW.

If you are really as good as you claim I'll make a video in your honor and put it on YouTube http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

5000 m is the closest one???
Let's make them 100 000 km,so you can climb to 20 000 meters in your L_Late and boom and zoom me,ok?

For your information,a fight between a FW-190 A-9 and a P-38L is fair.
And when the fight starts on 500m from each other,then you'll see who's the best one,because we're trying to show which plane have better maneuver handling and not which one can do boom and zoom better at 8000 meters.
And why you don't let me host the mission,eh http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ?
Don't worry i have a good connection speed.

Anyway,don't think me for so dumb to go on such a duel dude.
Since you call me on duel,i'll host and make the map on my rules,otherwise->beat the road.

JtD
07-24-2009, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by antred:
I definitely want to see the outcome of this one. Fingers crossed for whoever pilots the P-38! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif It was a no-go... I was at HL for the time, so I actually served as a target drone for FatCat since FlyBoy didn't showed up.
Seriously we had a good time, it was a real eye opener to me to see just how rusty my dogfight skills are http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .
FatCat clearly out edged me in dogfighting skills so the results in terms of some conclusive answers to which fighter out turns which and other important matters are simply unreliable at best. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Too bad!

DKoor
07-25-2009, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BillSwagger:
combat settings would say a lot more than cruising.
I could probably extend a quater tank for an hour or two if i had to.

Also, i noticed in FMB you can set fuel load to other numbers, like 20 or 30 instead of the 25% increments. Do you have any idea if the mission recognizes those integers, or does it revert to the nearest 25% increment. Game recognizes exact fuel % number.
You can set 1% fuel for that matter, it will be recognized.



BTW, altitude will be a factor, so just make it a medium number like 4000M. Ok. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Here it is;
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/DKoor/il2/fuel_cons_38ll_a9.png
As it says, results after 10 minutes of flight.
It was convenient for me to make it at SL, I can check on other alts but I think it wouldn't be so much different.

Flight_boy1990
07-25-2009, 01:10 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
It was a no-go... I was at HL for the time, so I actually served as a target drone for FatCat since FlyBoy didn't showed up.


Was i supposed to show up somewhere?
I thought that it was for today.
If we'll meet at the HL,atleast write down your HL nicks here.
Mine is clear...

JtD
07-25-2009, 01:36 AM
I think planes should have same endurance, not same fuel load. So roughly 1.5 times the kg for the P-38 or roughly 1.5 times the % for the Fw.

DKoor
07-25-2009, 02:37 AM
Originally posted by JtD:
I think planes should have same endurance, not same fuel load. So roughly 1.5 times the kg for the P-38 or roughly 1.5 times the % for the Fw. That is a very good idea.
Say optimize fighter for dogfight... 10mins of flight time under full combat settings should be enough per one dogfight.
FW-190A9 should be loaded with 94 liters of fuel, while at the same time P-38LL should be loaded with 168 liters.
That is enough for 10 mins and 10 sec of flight under full combat settings, give it or take a second or two.

P-38L_LATE on full fuel load carries 1164 liters of fuel and its counterpart FW-190A9 on full fuel load carries 393 liters of fuel, those figures represent;
FW-190A9 - 24% fuel (94 liters)
P-38L_LATE - 15% fuel (174 liters)

Closest % numbers selected.

DKoor
07-25-2009, 02:56 AM
Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FatCat_99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FatCat_99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:

-Remember that in hot situations in FW-190 A,you can always outturn:
*A P-51
*A P-38
*A P-47
*A Tempest (but it's a bit hard in the FW-190 A-8,easier in A-9;and the easiest in D-9)


Well, as I'll have more time now maybe you should show me how you do it, especially in A8 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I'll make dogfight mission with these planes and we can try it tomorrow, tonight I might be busy with videos. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure,tell me the hour for tomorrow.
But my duel rules are:
Spawn 500m from each other,headon no shooting.3 Rounds,25% fuel.That's the classic Il-2 duel.
I'll fly the A-9,you take the P-38 L.I'll be happy to show you what the A-9 can do.

But i cannot see what this will prove in here,when you lose. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Spawn 500m from each other ??? I have never saw competition duel map with such close spawn. 5000m is closer to what is used in competitions.

Do you mean P-38L_Late or P-38L, if what you want to fight is P-38L than you made not so brave but wise choice. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Anyway, I'll make map with all FW's available and selection of allied planes. Air start at 1000m. I'll be in HL after 22.00CET and you will be able to show me what you can do in FW.

If you are really as good as you claim I'll make a video in your honor and put it on YouTube http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

5000 m is the closest one???
Let's make them 100 000 km,so you can climb to 20 000 meters in your L_Late and boom and zoom me,ok?

For your information,a fight between a FW-190 A-9 and a P-38L is fair.
And when the fight starts on 500m from each other,then you'll see who's the best one,because we're trying to show which plane have better maneuver handling and not which one can do boom and zoom better at 8000 meters.
And why you don't let me host the mission,eh http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ?
Don't worry i have a good connection speed.

Anyway,don't think me for so dumb to go on such a duel dude.
Since you call me on duel,i'll host and make the map on my rules,otherwise->beat the road. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I wont speak in FatCat's name, it's just you got that wrong...

Usual duel, dogfight or 1v1 practice or whatever you wanna call it is done so that the players have decent distance at start (to be able to prepare and also for machines to RPM up the engines).
There is no climbing, descending, turning or anything else but a flat straight flight head on at full throttle.
After the two aircraft merge, wingtip by wingtip, they are free to do whatever they want.

Here is http://www.esl.eu/eu/il2/downl...ter[order_1]=created (http://www.esl.eu/eu/il2/download/search/?filter%5Bnode%5D=5555&filter%5Bcategory%5D=replay&filter%5Bage%5D=12months&filter%5Border_1%5D=created) link with tracks 1vs1 and the basic rules can be seen by observing some of those tracks.

Personally I think that those are quite fair rules.


Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
It was a no-go... I was at HL for the time, so I actually served as a target drone for FatCat since FlyBoy didn't showed up.


Was i supposed to show up somewhere?
I thought that it was for today.
If we'll meet at the HL,atleast write down your HL nicks here.
Mine is clear... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>No I don't know if you were supposed to show up... I suppose not.
Who cares anyway http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.
I only said that since you weren't there and FatCat noticed me available in roster he asked me to practice a bit.
Nothing more and nothing less. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

BTW both me and FatCat have same HL names as here.

Flight_boy1990
07-25-2009, 03:08 AM
Oh ok,whatever you say DKoor.
I'll be tonight in the lobby in 20:00 GMT,i won't be staying all night to wait for you,FatCat.

BillSwagger
07-25-2009, 03:13 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
Here it is;
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/DKoor/il2/fuel_cons_38ll_a9.png
As it says, results after 10 minutes of flight.
It was convenient for me to make it at SL, I can check on other alts but I think it wouldn't be so much different.


i'm in the middle of something similar.

I'm comparing fuel burn rates at various throttle settings and prop pitch.
To save time, i'm using a 1 percent fuel load with all subjects.
I know that the weight and fuel amount is different for each plane, but i think using a percentage is good for tracking overall range or time in the air.

So far, it seems that some planes get much better fuel economy from prop pitch than others. The biggest (obvious) factor is throttling down, but I'm very surprised to see the endurance of some planes when only using 70 percent throttle.

The test is limited to how many planes i test, cause i could test them all, but I will probably only test the ones i regularly see above 4000M, where range/flight time is a concern.

FatCat_99
07-25-2009, 03:19 AM
Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:
5000 m is the closest one???
Let's make them 100 000 km,so you can climb to 20 000 meters in your L_Late and boom and zoom me,ok?

5000m is actually close, with both planes approaching each other headon you can hardly get to top speed. And in duels it is common practice that planes don't climb before first pass, they make one cold pass at the same alt they started. So it is hardly a matter of somebody B'n'Z you.


For your information,a fight between a FW-190 A-9 and a P-38L is fair.

Depend on what is your definition of fair and your flying skills in FW. A9 is best Anton and L is worst P38. If it is me who has to fly A9 I wouldn't call that a fair fight, I would call it "clubbing the baby seals", but it doesn't matter, I just want to see your flying so let it be L vs A9.


And when the fight starts on 500m from each other,then you'll see who's the best one,because we're trying to show which plane have better maneuver handling and not which one can do boom and zoom better at 8000 meters.

Already explained this but if you want 500m than let it be.


And why you don't let me host the mission,eh http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ?
Don't worry i have a good connection speed.

What is the difference, you are in Bulgaria me in Croatia, ping will be so low that it doesn't make any difference, DM is calculated on clients computers anyway.


Anyway,don't think me for so dumb to go on such a duel dude.
Since you call me on duel,i'll host and make the map on my rules,otherwise->beat the road.

Why dumb,do you want to try it on my rules with you flying P38L http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

OK Gringo, your rules, your map, you hosting, whatever you want http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif What can I do, can't be angry at you, those beautiful chicks from your graduation pictures are saving your a$$. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

BTW my HL nick is same as my nick here and it is the only nick I use in HL. I use some variations of my nick in other forums but it is always related to FatCat, for example I'm FC at AAA, FatCat in Warclouds or FC99 in some forums.

It's really not that hard to spot me.

FC99

Flight_boy1990
07-25-2009, 03:44 AM
Ah FC...You're bad!Very bad!!!
Why you didn't told me that it was you in the first place??? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Well atleast you already know that sometimes i'm a bit aggressive. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif
Ok since i know that it's you,you're hosting,you make the maps,etc.

FatCat_99
07-25-2009, 06:43 AM
Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:
Ah FC...You're bad!Very bad!!!
Why you didn't told me that it was you in the first place??? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I thought you know http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Now you can understand why I thought that Tero's comment about Avia was funny. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


Well atleast you already know that sometimes i'm a bit aggressive. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif
Ok since i know that it's you,you're hosting,you make the maps,etc.

We must agree about time, if 22.00CET is too late for you maybe we can do it earlier, I can be in HL between 18.30 and 20.00 CET today.

I have a map with bases at 500 and 5000m apart and we can try both scenarios if you want.

FC

Flight_boy1990
07-25-2009, 07:18 AM
I see,i see... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Well,let's meet in the HL at 22:00 CET (21:00 GMT),i've just found out that i'll be back home late today.

Flight_boy1990
07-25-2009, 04:47 PM
Hello everyone,
here is the record file from my point of view:
Download. (http://rapidshare.com/files/260036689/Duel.ntrk.html)
The result is 8:7 for FC.
Anyone watch and juge my performance,i'm open to critics.
I just saw that the A-9 is simply not capable of taking on an experienced P-47,so please stay tuned,soon there will be a duel between me in Dora and FC in P-47.
In my opinion i flew the Anthon-9 to the limits against the P-47+some small minor issue with my right rudder...

Well i wish you a nice watching and comment!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Flight_boy1990
07-25-2009, 11:32 PM
Well,well...
So many here wanted me and FC to duel,and now noone's going to comment anything?!

I'll keep that in future.

JtD
07-26-2009, 01:20 AM
Nice fights the two of you, but why on earth with externals off...I'd lose contact after the first pass.

I think the P-398L vs. A-8 setup was most interesting. The two of you also held a small turning contest with these and the Fw did somewhat better. Try against P-38J next time.

I figure Fatcat spends more time in the 47 than in the 51? No reason to not kill something in the 51 you can kill in the 47, or is there? At least it should not be as different as night and day. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Gringo seems to be very familiar with the 190, do you fly any other plane?

And finally, how did DKoor get in there? It said it was a server with 2 slots?

hirosangels
07-26-2009, 02:06 AM
Interesting. I got around to the hour mark, will watch the rest later.

Its helping me realize SA, when I went cockpit mode, I kept loosing the 9-38. It's also giving me a good gauge on IL-2 dogfighting.


The P-38 just flies in circles around the 190, but Grigo seemed to handle the FW to get into firing range.

I noticed fat cat kept doing this drift thing kind of like cars do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsiOkwICz-I


I'm sure gringo was also doing it, but since the frame of reference was his 190, I couldn't tell.


And I've seen the AI do on occasion. I thought it was at first a special ability of the P-38 (twin engine or twin boom) or the Zero, but I saw that drift done on the p-51 also?



Is that maneuver plane specific? And a special application of trim? Or is it flying / manipulating stall like the Sukhoi jet fighter does in airshows?

Could someone enlighten me on how to 'drift' a a/c ?

Thanks.

FatCat_99
07-26-2009, 03:29 AM
Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:
So many here wanted me and FC to duel,and now noone's going to comment anything?!

Give people some time, it's not that it was soccer World cup final and that half of the world eagerly waiting results. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Most important thing to say is that it's nice to fly and fight with you when you behave maturely and politely. But that's what we all knew, it's only you who have to understand that only this kind of behavior will get you friends and respect.

Remember,"give respect,get respect", that's how life works.

Your flying is not bad at all, not as good as you think it is but better than I thought it will be. You have potentials and I saw some nice moves which are usually done only by good pilots.


Originally posted by JtD:
I think the P-398L vs. A-8 setup was most interesting. The two of you also held a small turning contest with these and the Fw did somewhat better. Try against P-38J next time.

That probably is closest one, personally I would rather be in A8 in that matchup but that's mostly because I'm more familiar with FW than with P38L which I never fly, if I fly P38 it is J or L_Late. Anyway this one can go to both sides depending on situation and pilots.



I figure Fatcat spends more time in the 47 than in the 51? No reason to not kill something in the 51 you can kill in the 47, or is there? At least it should not be as different as night and day. Smile

I fly P51 once in a blue moon, in fact that was first time this year that I flew P51D. That one was my biggest disappointment, I was fighting the plane whole fight.

Plane simply didn't like what I was doing to it, in a type of fight we had P51D should win every fight against A9 but I was not able to find it's sweet spot.

Using energy approach would be sure winner but I wanted to win with brute force and it didn't work. Experienced P51 pilots can give Dora run for the money and i was not able walk over A9 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

P47D_Late is monster with 25% fuel, I was able to watch movie on TV and fight that one, but you are right, that's the only plane out of those I flew in match which I fly on semi-regular basis. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif


And finally, how did DKoor get in there? It said it was a server with 2 slots?

I left more slots open in game than I declared in HL, sometimes friends need me so that's the way to let them in without disturbance from unwanted.

Next time if you want to jump in just join the game no matter what HL says.

FC

Flight_boy1990
07-26-2009, 05:24 AM
Originally posted by JtD:
Gringo seems to be very familiar with the 190, do you fly any other plane?
Thank you. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Yes,the Bf-109 sometimes...And for fun the Zero.
But still my main choice is the FW-190.


Originally posted by hirosangels:
I noticed fat cat kept doing this drift thing kind of like cars do...I'm sure gringo was also doing it, but since the frame of reference was his 190, I couldn't tell.And I've seen the AI do on occasion. I thought it was at first a special ability of the P-38 (twin engine or twin boom) or the Zero, but I saw that drift done on the p-51 also?
...
Could someone enlighten me on how to 'drift' a a/c ?
Can you specify exact ingame track time of when you saw this "drift"?
Sorry i just can't understand what you mean by drift.

I must correct myself about the A-9 vs a well flown P-47.
If the A-9 is above the P-47,1vs1,the A-9 can win,but not if it's below it.
But i bet the things will stay different way if the fight is 2vs2 or 4vs4.

Anyway,my skills are not that good at the moment...Before i used to fly a lot,and now i can fly only once per week/week and a half,and with my squad.So i haven't practised my "Lone Wolf" tactic soon.And on top of that,i had this irritating rudder problem.It consisted in when you apply full power,and press the right rudder of the joystick,it firstly kicked left before going right...You know in high AoA or low speed maneuver,one such move can cost you a nasty stall...This also affected pretty much my scissor maneuver.So i could effectively use only my left rudder for quick low speed moves,and my leaning maneuvers were also affected by this.
So i hope i'll fix it before my next encounter with FC. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Anyway,now it's party and i'm going to party on the beaches and will be very happy to show my boom and zoom tactics on the chicks... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

DKoor
07-26-2009, 06:56 AM
I just watched the track.
Here is my quick overview.

FatCat flew allied planes while FlightBoy flew FW-190's.

P-38L(_LATE?) vs A9
P-38L_LATE started these first four fights with advantage because he spawned on the A9's tail.
Too close bases, red spawns on blue's tail. The only thing that can be concluded is that A9 was lucky and skilled enough to end these fights with a draw.

1 - P-38 starts with clean position advantage, end was predictable. 1:0.
2 - In spite of advantage start and good fight later on, P-38 made a mistake and FW-190 seized the chance and use it to win. 1:1.
3 - Much like the first fight, P-38 starts with advantage, end was predictable due to mathematically clean flying on P-38's part. 2:1
4 - This one was more even fight, FW-190 smartly forced head on which is on of the strongest points when you fly a FW. It should always be used. Smart move. 2:2.

Planeset change. Vanilla P-38L vs FW-190A8.
After changing the bases, fights are now equal regarding energy for both sides since they are faced head on. Goes for the rest of all duels.

5 - P-38 traditionally open with good energy flying however A8 can match it in vital points and uses it to deliver a distance blow on P-38's tail. P-38 also made a small stall mistake from which he recovered fast but wasn't enough to evade good A8's aim. 2:3.
6 - P-38 enters with altitude advantage again, but after a prolonged turnfest A8 skillfully comes on top. 2:4.
7 - P-38 uses advantage in its advantage. Pure energy kill. 3:4.

Planeset change. P-51D vs FW-190A9.
Quick conclusion; P-51D should avoid fighting a FW-190A9 on lower alts if it doesn't have an advantage. It doesn't have to be great advantage.

8 - Pretty much equal energy, turnfight, A9 gives up and tries to force more clean fight, unfortunately that didn't end up good. P-51D seized the chance and came on top. 4:4.
9 - Equal energy at opening, A9 comes on top after a few maneuvers. 4:5.
10 - This one was quite interesting fight that show some things. Providing players used their fighters in best manner possible conclusion is that A9 is superior in turnfight at lower altitudes. Good decision on A9's part not to give up on turnfight. 4:6.
11 - This one is quite similar with the previous fight, just the P-51D actually started this one with a slight altitude advantage, therefore presumably had small energy advantage ( also judging by fighter's speed). Was able to capitalize that advantage. 5:6.

Planeset change. P-47D_LATE vs FW-190A9.
If anything can be concluded with these duels that is one thing. FW-190A9 should never fight a P-47D_LATE unless it has considerable energy advantage.

12 - A9 did good, but had no chance vs clean P-47's flying. 6:6.
13 - Same as previous fight. 7:6.
14 - After more or less equal opening, P-47 started to build advantage, ended up on FW's tail, then I joined the game and of course players couldn't really fight... later on they lost sight on each other so fight ended in draw.
Sorry guys http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif .
15 - Predictable result after few maneuvers, P-47 came on top. 8:6.
16 - The 16th fight was best of this whole planeset duels... merciless mix-it-up style of fight, where P-47 had slight upper hand and managed to capitalize that. 9:6.

Overall result was 9:6 in FatCat's favor, but would likely be different with another planeset.
As much as players make a difference, planes they fly also make a great difference especially in case of experienced players which these two certainly are.

DKoor
07-26-2009, 07:30 AM
Originally posted by JtD:
I think the P-38L vs. A-8 setup was most interesting. The two of you also held a small turning contest with these and the Fw did somewhat better. Try against P-38J next time. Result could swing in P-38's favor.
P-38J can come out on top over FW-190A5/6... and P-38J is quite better plane than P-38L (better climb, better speed, better turn, everything except dive flaps), while FW-190A5/6 is quite more suited for dogfight than FW-190A8 but A8 is faster...

FatCat_99
07-26-2009, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:

P-38L(_LATE?) vs A9
P-38L_LATE started these first four fights with advantage because he spawned on the A9's tail.
Too close bases, red spawns on blue's tail. The only thing that can be concluded is that A9 was lucky and skilled enough to end these fights with a draw.

Bases were actually positioned side by side with red base 500m north from blue base but it seems that game doesn't like bases so close and due to bases interference blue was spawned at wrong place.
Red plane was P38L, not L_Late.

DKoor
07-26-2009, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by FatCat_99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:

P-38L(_LATE?) vs A9
P-38L_LATE started these first four fights with advantage because he spawned on the A9's tail.
Too close bases, red spawns on blue's tail. The only thing that can be concluded is that A9 was lucky and skilled enough to end these fights with a draw.

Bases were actually positioned side by side with red base 500m north from blue base but it seems that game doesn't like bases so close and due to bases interference blue was spawned at wrong place.
Red plane was P38L, not L_Late. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Thanks for correction http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif.
Could it possibly be that user must manually orientate bases to face each other... maybe that would work?

I'll try it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif.

hirosangels
07-27-2009, 05:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hirosangels:
I noticed fat cat kept doing this drift thing kind of like cars do...I'm sure gringo was also doing it, but since the frame of reference was his 190, I couldn't tell.And I've seen the AI do on occasion. I thought it was at first a special ability of the P-38 (twin engine or twin boom) or the Zero, but I saw that drift done on the p-51 also?
...
Could someone enlighten me on how to 'drift' a a/c ?
Can you specify exact ingame track time of when you saw this "drift"?
Sorry i just can't understand what you mean by drift.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Flightboy

Ok here are some places where I noticed it happens


P-38

1:40


1:50 to 1:53


2:32

2:56 - 3:00


around 3:12

and around 3:25


3:54-3:58



p-51

56:31

56:34

57:15

57:53-58

59:30



Thanks