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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 05:32 PM
I actually replied to the P-51 thread with this, and thought maybe it would make for a nice conversation on it's own. Probably been done before, but what the heck let's do it again. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
If I was going to class a "Icon" of WWII as a plane, personally I think it would be several planes and definately the P-51 would be one of them. Having said that, I will list what I consider "Icons", there are too many to put one out as the best IMO.
These are in no order.....
1) P-47
2) Spitfire
3) BF-109
4) FW 190
5) P-51
6) P-38
7) Hellcat
8) Yak series
9) B-17
10) B-24
11) Lancaster
12) Hurricane
13) Corsair
14) Zero
15) P-40
16) B-29
17) Ju-87
18) IL-2
IMO all of these plane contibuted greatly to their countries and each I think are true "icons" from WWII. Planes we all dream of flying in real life. Always wondering what is was like to fly it.
~S!
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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 05:32 PM
I actually replied to the P-51 thread with this, and thought maybe it would make for a nice conversation on it's own. Probably been done before, but what the heck let's do it again. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
If I was going to class a "Icon" of WWII as a plane, personally I think it would be several planes and definately the P-51 would be one of them. Having said that, I will list what I consider "Icons", there are too many to put one out as the best IMO.
These are in no order.....
1) P-47
2) Spitfire
3) BF-109
4) FW 190
5) P-51
6) P-38
7) Hellcat
8) Yak series
9) B-17
10) B-24
11) Lancaster
12) Hurricane
13) Corsair
14) Zero
15) P-40
16) B-29
17) Ju-87
18) IL-2
IMO all of these plane contibuted greatly to their countries and each I think are true "icons" from WWII. Planes we all dream of flying in real life. Always wondering what is was like to fly it.
~S!
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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 05:45 PM
Would your list have been the same before you got IL2? I didn't really know the Russian planes that well. After all, it is the forgotten battle.

The rest of the list looks good.

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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 05:55 PM
I'd say the Lavochkins deserve a spot among those, after all, the highest scoring ace on the Allied side flew them.

XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 07:36 PM
Buzz,
Before I got IL2 and FB I had very little knowledge of the Russian planes, but after reading what little information I have been able to get my hands on I have a lot of respect for their a/c.
The reason I ommitted the La's was due to the Yaks having a far wider spreading contribution due to their constant evolution and capabilities. While IMO the La's were superb dogfighters and definately fine a/c overall, they just did not fill the roles the Yaks did. But like I said that is IMO and these kind of things everybody has a different answer. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
~S!
Eagle
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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 07:54 PM
Alot of politics involved between the La's and Yaks. I think the La's were more effective for the Russians, but they couldn't get enough of them made.

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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 08:00 PM
I would add the G4M series Betty and the SBD Dauntless to the list.


Blutarski

XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 08:25 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- Would your list have been the same before you got
- IL2? I didn't really know the Russian planes that
- well. After all, it is the forgotten battle.


Agreed. These are all going to be biased as well. Before IL-2, the Migs were the only Soviet planes I was aware of. For me I would have to say:

P-51
B-17
F4
Zero
109
etc...



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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 08:42 PM
Icon : An object of particular admiration, especially as a representative symbol of something.

Well, probably the most iconic aircraft of the 20th century, let alone WW2,....Supermarine Spitfire.

A shortlist might also include:

Bf109
Avro Lancaster
Boeing B17
P51 Mustang

The plane that stirs emotions in more people than any other is the Spitfire though.

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ShadowHawk__
07-17-2003, 08:52 PM
Most recognizable would probably be the B-17 or the P-51, or just about any American aircraft of the era. On the eastern front I'd say the Stuka would probably be the most well known. I also knew nothing about Russian planes before FB, and I'm glad I could learn about that part of the air war.

-Death From Above

[Edit: The spitfire should probably be included in my first sentence.]

Message Edited on 07/17/0301:54PM by ShadowHawk__

XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 08:59 PM
You forgot the Hawker Typhoon, the Germans certainly remember that one from Normandy 1944.

So much so that they objected to the new Eurofighter being assigned that name.

You could say the same thing about the name "Stuka" from the British perspective, as well./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 09:25 PM
1) B 17
2) Ju 87
3) P 51
4) 109
5) Ju 52
6) Zero
7) Fieseler Storch (i´m serious!)


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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 10:08 PM
Actually, the C-47 may be considered the most important ac of the war. Without it Overlord would have been much more difficult if not impossible, there would have been no air supply of encircled troops in the Ardenne and no flying "over the hump". Look at the vast numbers of these planes made, surely they must at least be on the list!

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Sneak home and pray you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 11:07 PM
PF_Talus wrote:
- Actually, the C-47 may be considered the most
- important ac of the war. Without it Overlord would
- have been much more difficult if not impossible,
- there would have been no air supply of encircled
- troops in the Ardenne and no flying "over the hump".
- Look at the vast numbers of these planes made,
- surely they must at least be on the list!

Excellent point, a very important plane indeed! I will add it to my list accordingly. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 11:14 PM
Heya Eagle!
Now try to start the same thread on russian forums and see the resoults /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Regards,
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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 11:22 PM
FW 190
Corsair
P38 Lightning

For there Beauty Charm & Elagance in the sky!

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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 11:28 PM
Mosquito I would suggest and from the Russian point of view Pe2 if it hasn't been said before.

XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 11:32 PM
I can`t believe no one said IL2...

Regards,
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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 11:36 PM
crazyivan1970 wrote:
- I can`t believe no one said IL2...

Ivan,
It's on my original list #17 I believe. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif hehe


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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 11:37 PM
#17 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif ... it`s the same as not menioning it...it should be in the first 5 IMO.

Regards,
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XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 11:43 PM
Oh well it's #18 my mistake, but like I said they are in no real order, I personally can't pick one of those planes as #1 in my book, they were all great! And I even forgot the C-47 and Mossie, oops. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 12:09 AM
well a distinct computer game bias there .. all single seat fighters or big heavies http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

I would include the Mossie and the Lightning in that list for starters.

then some medium bombers .. the Mitchell the he111 the wellington and the beaufighter.

Also the plane that most symbolised WWII to GI's is probably the Dakota !!!!

Finally no flying boats are mentioned .. no PBY or Sunderland. Flying boats are probably the most evocative image of that whole era.

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 01:26 AM
This is an "Icon" list only. Not the best, biggest or baddest necessarily.

European Theatre:

Spitfire
ME-109
He-111
P-38
P-51
B-17
ME-262
Ju-87 Stuka
V-1 & 2

Pacific Theatre:

F4F Hellcat
P-38
P-40
Zero
F4U Corsair
B-25 (30 Seconds Over Tokio)
The image of any kamakazie plane

When most people think of WW2 I think these are the 'planes' they seem to remember most.


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Message Edited on 07/17/03 05:27PM by rexcarrs

Message Edited on 07/17/0305:28PM by rexcarrs

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 01:50 AM
Shorter list when it comes to quicker discussions amongst those that arent as informed as most of us on the lobby here are would be

Spitfire
Lancaster
Mustang
Corsair
Me-109
Fw-190
Stuka
Yak
B-17
B-29
Me 262 only becuase it was operational since 44

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 02:00 AM
If I was to narrow down to 4, in this order, I would say:
Spitfire, Bf109, FW-190, IL-2/P-47
Okay that's five, no wonder why I'm almost failing math /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 02:02 AM
I agree with initial post list, although in different order http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif B17 first.

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 02:14 AM
an ICON of ww2 would be the most well known recognized plane anywhere in the world. the russian planes are really only known by russians. and some eastern euro block countries. go to japan go to south america go to canada usa australia even germany spain etc. now ask what is the most famous ICONIC planes of ww2? you wont find transport planes or russian planes on that list. you will find 3 planes. the P-51, the Spitfire, and the ME109. some may argue for the corsair and zero as the two most well known in the pacific campaign as secondaries. but thats it. were talking ICON. as in who was the king of rock and roll. obviosly there was only one. Elvis Presley. im not an elvis fan but i know this. THAT is the meaning of icon. even if your not a fan of something you know whats most known. WHO was the best crooner? Frank Sinatra. again im not a fan but i know. thats the basic idea. your list is growing so large youve just about named all the main planes of the entire war. im not arguing ...im just sayin...

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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 02:15 AM
p.s. i didnt even includ my two favorite planes in the top three or even top five... my favs are the jug and the butcher bird. but they certainly arent as well known as the stang and the 109

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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 02:32 AM
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</img.>
It won the war, don't ya know....

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Message Edited on 07/17/0309:39PM by ElAurens

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 02:40 AM
BF 109

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 05:20 AM
If I had to narrow it to 3 I would say 109, Spit, and P-51...... They are by far the most recognizable ...even people who dont know what they are looking at have seen these planes....

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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 05:48 AM
for me my top 2 are
Spitfire
109

the 190 isnt really known by people the averge person tends to only know of the 109, as for spitfire that is a name that stands out it served from the very start to the very end in frountline service also like the 109 in most frounts of the war even in the pacfic, also looks good one of the reasons y it overshadowed the hurricane :P, also NZs top ace flew a spitfire IX with about 27.5 kills.
They also remained pretty even in performance of each other, aprt from that g6 which was outclassed in almost everything.

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Message Edited on 07/18/0305:51PM by HellToupee

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 06:18 AM
If i would have to name three, i would go for:

- Spitfire
- B17
- P51 Mustang

Also in that order. Fourth would be the 109. Im not talking the most important to the war, just the ones symbolising the war. Well, just like RedDeth said.

Kinda funny though, the theater with most casualties is the one noone cares and knows about: the eastern airwar. So many pilots died there, it's really staggering. Take the IL2 for example, over 36.000 were built of those and probably only a minority of those made it through the war. Everybody only hears about the heroics of the Battle of Britain and what the B17 pilots had to put up with. And in the meanwhile Germans and Russians were slaughtering eachother in the east.

It's really great that someone made a sim of it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif .

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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 07:23 AM
Symbolising the war?

I think the Stuka on the german side.

B-17 on the allied side.



Don't ask me why, but first that came to mind were bombers. I guess because of the amount of terror they both caused to civilian population and military. This is what the majority of non-aircraft-educated people would probably recognize IMO.


I cannot believe there's been so very few people mentioning the Me-262.



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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 09:36 AM
commie1 wrote:
- You forgot the Hawker Typhoon, the Germans certainly
- remember that one from Normandy 1944.
-
- So much so that they objected to the new Eurofighter
- being assigned that name.
-
- You could say the same thing about the name "Stuka"
- from the British perspective, as well./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-

Did the germans honestly suggest the new eurofighter be called "Stuka"? ;p

Sorry I couldn't resist!

Zayets
07-18-2003, 09:51 AM
There's no doubt and the winner is:
DC3/C47 - the plane who won the war.

Zayets out

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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 09:52 AM
For a normal "Otto" here in Germany (you may say "Fritz",too), who has no special knowledge about planes,
the list would perhaps look like this (he does not know anything about exact names):

- Messerschmitt
- Stuka
- Spitfire
- Fliegende Festung (B17, of course)
- Rosinenbomber (is it the B-24?)
- Mustang

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 09:54 AM
this is not a what plane won the war thread. its a ICON of ww2 thread.... everyone KNOWS the mustang won the war.

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Zayets
07-18-2003, 09:57 AM
RedDeth wrote:
- this is not a what plane won the war thread. its a
- ICON of ww2 thread.... everyone KNOWS the mustang
- won the war.

And?What's the problem?Oh , nevermind , just lurking around looking for updates.
Zayets out



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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 10:02 AM
From the British perspective I'd like to add both the Fairey Swordfish and the Gloster Gladiator to this list of aerial icons. Neither were exactly state of the art (!) but what they were used for was truly stirring, not to mention vital to the Allied war effort at the time. Another addition to my list would be the Westland Lysander, a high-winged monoplane used extensively to assist the French Resistance, and which must definitely have been seen as an icon by the people on the ground in Occupied France! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Iconic too, for the crews of the Arctic convoys on the Murmansk run, must have been the one-life fighters (Seahawks & so on) that were catapulted off from the vulnerable merchantmen at the first sight of a Kondor. I reckon the pilots were also "icons", with just the marginal hope of being picked up by a friendly ship when the fuel went or they got shot down into the freezing sea. No glamour there; no sexy nose-art and probably no wingman either! I've met a few old sailors from that era of the Russian convoys. They would probably have looked a bit blank at the mention of "icons" - but they had fond memories of these planes and the brave men who flew them. So they, mostly Hurricane variants, go on the list too.

It's all about perspective - as a schoolboy in the Fifties neither me or my mates knew about the sacrifices of our Russian allies, let alone the the planes they flew! We could have spotted a Sabre or a Mig-15 though, and we venerated the Spits and Hurri's, the Lanc's and the Fort's. Anything that could be bought from Airfix, or Revell, had a good chance of iconic status /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I also enjoy flying a sim about the Russo-German struggle. It illuminates a side of the war that was truly forgotten by most of the "free" West as the Cold War developed and Russia became the great enemy. Better late than never, it's a great tribute to the men and women aviators of the Soviet air service and the planes they flew, I love it.

Brando




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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 10:03 AM
Allies: B-17 or other big bombers.

Axis: Stuka. Saying "it dives ans sounds like this: weeeeeeeeee" will make ANYONE know what plane you are talking about, even if they have no idea what a 109 etc looks like.

fluke39
07-18-2003, 10:08 AM
IMO Red deth,bearcat, and EPP Gibbs have it the closest.
I think to truly get the icons of WWII you have to ask the average person - or think back to before you youself were an expert and knew only a few of your own countries planes let alone other countries.
there would also be a major difference between countries( as crazy ivan states) - as for years and years hardly anyone would have included any russian planes (from western countries) and if tthey don't play IL2 probably still don't!. IMO the main plane that probably stands out- and is an icon around the world as oppoed to just it's country is the spitfire - as in many minds it 'held back the tide' when only england stood against the nazis.- which helped it stand out anyway - enough jabbering my list would look similar to some others

Spitfire
Me109
P51

(possible inclusions of lancaster - from brit p.o.v.)


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XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 11:28 AM
Rheinmetall wrote:
- - Rosinenbomber (is it the B-24?)
No, it's the C47 or DC3

What about B29? It ended the war

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 11:43 AM
I would say from my biased point of view
B-239
Me-109 (especially G-models)
Ju-87
P-51

the plane is as good as is the pilot /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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