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View Full Version : Poll: Pedal owners, do you coordinate your turns with your rudder?



rnzoli
06-13-2006, 02:29 AM

rnzoli
06-13-2006, 02:29 AM

DmdSeeker
06-13-2006, 02:50 AM
I do use rudder; but I've never had to use rudders in this or any other sim as much as my very little real life flight experience would indicate.

tagTaken2
06-13-2006, 02:55 AM
I spent a long time so focused on the ball (pre 4.04!) that I'd get killed during my beautifully coordinated turns.

Then I read somewhere that bad flying helped some pilots live longer, and stopped trying. Do it a lot out of habit, but rudder is for aim correction now.

wintergoose
06-13-2006, 03:18 AM
Yes I always use a combination of rudder and other sterings spesial in fighting turns.

In underways flight I use only rudder to corect and also in aiming I use rudder but not the pedals only the rudder trim witch i have on a potmeter in my controlls

Jasko76
06-13-2006, 03:49 AM
When just flying around, making slow turn, then very little. In combat - always. Especially when following a bogey through a turn. And when aiming ofcourse. So much so that I'm utterly incompetent if not using the pedals.

WOLFMondo
06-13-2006, 03:54 AM
Rudder for me is massivly important in all manouvers. I don't know how anyone can play it without rudder input.

Crash_Moses
06-13-2006, 06:03 AM
Yup, and trim too.

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-13-2006, 06:08 AM
Coordinated turns greatly enhance the control and stability through turns. I use it all the time. Besides the improved control, it just feels better. Not quite right....but better.


TB

x6BL_Brando
06-13-2006, 06:53 AM
Absolutely! Use of the rudder is essential to co-ordinated flight, especially in turns. Not much deflection is required, but keeping the nose level in the turn, while banked, is definitely attainable with good rudder control.
As someone said, it just becomes instinctual.

There's been a discussion amongst bikers recently, about the direction of the front wheel (relative to the centre-line of the machine) during fast cornering. A lot of testing with on-board cameras has shown that the fastest times are attained when the wheel is slightly offset - towards the outside of the corner! Interestingly, the guys that had put in the fastest times and been shown to use this method all admitted that they had no idea that they did it! It's a minute offset, something like a couple of degrees, but it actually counters a tendency for the wheel to fall in towards the inside of a high-speed bend.

My point is that it's all part of the same issue - once experienced in flying (or riding) 'by the seat of your pants' all these things become coordinated. It's harder in the sim because there's no feedback through the pedals, but I submit that using all the control surfaces together is the better way to fly. Easier too, once mastered.

B.

SeaFireLIV
06-13-2006, 07:08 AM
Yes, I use rudder in turns, especially in combat. Often opposite rudder if combat. I even use trim at the same time if I can. Kinda amazing how complex this kind of thing gets without a guy realising it. Best way to learn.

OD_79
06-13-2006, 08:20 AM
Second nature to me being a glider pilot, if anything I probably over do it as a result sometimes! Wouldn't fly without my CH Pro pedals anymore.

OD

raaaid
06-15-2006, 07:16 AM
i just use the pedals for shooting

big mistake using the pedals turning imho, you get closer to the stall limit, no using the pedals at all that stall limit allows you to pull the stick farther turning harder

slipBall
06-15-2006, 07:47 AM
Same here, although I do on occasion use pedels for crabing the aircraft. For decending without speed increase, I use oposite rudder to turn direction

x6BL_Brando
06-15-2006, 07:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">big mistake using the pedals turning imho, you get closer to the stall limit, no using the pedals at all that stall limit allows you to pull the stick farther turning harder </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't agree. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
It's one-track thinking and as such, limiting. Angle of attack (i.e. the pos. of the nose in relation to direction of flight) is not limited to the vertical plane. Thus merely pulling the stick back harder is not necessarily the sensible manouevre. It's much more about smooth, coordinated use of all the control surfaces in combination. Think of G-force on the pilot in a tightening turn.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">i just use the pedals for shooting
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What about getting away? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The people (or AI) who just pull back the stick are the easiest targets. What about hammerheads, immelmans, stall turns, sideslip turns, snap rolls and other manouevres that definitely require rudder input?

Only shooting. You don't know what you're missing sir! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

B.

TomJeffJones
06-15-2006, 09:17 AM
Ok I have another question for you pedal owners...before you had the pedals, - how was your experience ruddering in IL2 -- I can't afford a pair of pedals at the moment, nor do i have a throttle -- just my CH combatstick with the z-axis wheel linked to elevator trim.

I make do in single player with my rudder on the keyboard - its still linked to the default keys,

z and x for full left and right -

, and . for incremental adjustment left and right -

in turns I'll usually click the rudder a couple of increments in whatever direction is appropriate, - and i use the full rudder keys for side-slips and sloppy hammerheads, but i'm wondering what i'm missing by not owning a pair of pedals, or at least having the rudder on a pentiometer -

rnzoli
06-15-2006, 09:34 AM
wow, that's a bold attemp to hijack this thread http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

but welcome to the forum and in these threads you may find the information you are looking for

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/733...331066663#7331066663 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/7331066663/r/7331066663#7331066663)

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/829...291086143#8291086143 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/8291086143/r/8291086143#8291086143)

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/193.../193102701#193102701 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/193102701/r/193102701#193102701)

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/775.../775107325#775107325 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/775107325/r/775107325#775107325)


... and many more. Use the "Find" function to find them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-15-2006, 11:41 AM
To address those who've stated they only use it for gunnery. I'm certainly no expert, but anyone who has been in a scissor-fight with an experienced opponent knows that prudent use of rudder while scissoring usually means the difference in getting strikes on the bad guy or avoiding the bad guy getting strikes on you. A 'proper' scissor isn't merely rolling and pulling the stick, switching direction and doing it again. There has to be a bit of anticipation as to when your opponent is going to fire and kicking the rudder enough to evade and vice-versa.

Most guys that don't use consistent rudder input are predisposed to hitting the 'refly' key more than they should. It's THAT important. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


TB

Akronnick
06-15-2006, 02:53 PM
You know they put that rudder on the back of the plane for a reason, doesn't make much sense to me not to use it. Plus, I paid about a hundred bucks for those pedals, so why wouldn't I use them

domenlovrec
06-15-2006, 03:34 PM
I don't see how could rudder improve turning. But i use it when i go for a little spin. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Crash_Moses
06-15-2006, 03:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by domenlovrec:
I don't see how could rudder improve turning. But i use it when i go for a little spin. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It helps maintain your speed. When you turn your airplane it wants to keep going in the same direction thus slowing you down. Using the rudder helps your prop "pull" the plane around the corner (in simple terms).

Unless you're being a smart alec. In which case... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

slipBall
06-15-2006, 03:53 PM
I think alot of pedal rudder use is done naturaly, without much thought.