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View Full Version : Is the realism of the plane Flight Models important to you?



PE_Tihi
10-05-2007, 11:08 AM
Some people would like to have the plane flight models as accurate as it goes, some don't pay that much attention to the matter. Planes can be as they like, they say; they 'll obtain the scores with any planes, anyway.

What is your opinion on this matter?

triad773
10-05-2007, 11:20 AM
Being that playing IL-2 offers me the opportunity to learn more about certain elements of history, my pref is that the FM is as accurate as possible so I can be familiar with what the original gents had to contend with.

For instance there is the pref of accurate gun damage. If I wanted to just play a game and gain little else than a high score, then who'd care? Might as well be an arcade game. But no- I enjoy some of the challenges involved in doing it as accurately as possible.

Chivas
10-05-2007, 11:34 AM
The FM's became irrelavent as soon as aircraft with no combat flaps, were able to put flaps on a slider in the Hotas options. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

buzzsaw1939
10-05-2007, 12:26 PM
Ya!.. lets do away with reality, that,ll stop them cheaters! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

gdfo
10-05-2007, 04:51 PM
The issue is a good one. Of course most voted for the most realistic flight model.

But, who is to determine what that is?

Whether or not a plane had combat flaps or not is matter that each of us has to deal with in our own conscience.

Any game will have the possiblity of 'exploits' that does not excuse anyone. All forms of human activity can and will involve cheating. No one except the cheater or the exploiter can really stop doing something that is inherently wrong. If that were not so there would be no crime in the world.

You can attempt to prevent crime and cheating but you cannot stop a really determined individual from doing it. Banks still get robbed no matter how many hidden cameras they use.

From what I understand, Oleg is no longer working on IL-2. Too bad for I would have liked to seen some changes in it.

Also how real can you make the flight models?
Then you will always have the issue of rigs and equiptment. Do you see any 'no trk IR' servers?

Freelancer-1
10-06-2007, 02:04 AM
For me me it's not the actual flight models that are important.

It's the flight models relative to the other planes.

For example:

If plane 'A' could out turn plane 'B' or plane 'C' could out run plane 'D' at twenty five hundred meters in real life then it should be that way in the game.

So as long as the relative differences are correct then a few details in the FMs don't really matter so much. It is, after all, a computer simulation and will never approach what it's like in RL anyway.

VVS-Manuc
10-06-2007, 04:31 AM
Not important at all. I just want to shot down ,outturn and outrun everythin

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2007, 07:14 AM
The sim is old

I don't mind saying, PE_Tihi, that I detect a strong agenda with you

You are on a mission to prove that things are wrong

We ALL know it isn't perfect. We have for years. You are NOT opening our eyes. The sim is flawed, and it was when it was new.

They built on that flawed sim. The sim was outside of it's intended envelope years ago

If you or anyone else has forgotten it, the entire sim, 1946 included, has been nothing more or les than an enjoyable test-bed for future projects. Yes, the commercial products we paid for

We all knew it, or did at one time and then chose to forget. How do I know? Oleg posted it, years ago! It isn't news

There's no conspiracy to mis-represent, there's no shady dealings, there's no desire to deceive

It's a game type called a simulation, not a doctorial thesis on simulated flight. Although I, you, Oleg, and everyone else wants it to be perfect, does anyone really think that a PC is capable of that goal? Even now?

You are making threads about realism, how a plane's CG is wrong, how you've seen the FM data, etc

I strongly suspect your motivations

DKoor
10-06-2007, 07:17 AM
Option 1.
As much as possible to do it.
Without prejudice.
With open mind.
You guys get the picture http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Snodrvr
10-06-2007, 09:09 AM
I like realism to an extent, I think the Flight and damage models for the planes should be reasonably accurate.

However, I don't think that everything should have to be accurate down to the last rivet. It wouldn't spoil the game experience for me if a plane's cockpit wasn't 100% accurate, so long as it had the basic flight instruments neccesary for flight.

norman888
10-06-2007, 09:54 AM
While "realism" in a "simulation" is great, I'd rather have 200 relatively realistic planes to fly than 2 that are supposedly 100% realistic.

This speaks to the flawed way where crucial aircraft have been left unflyable in IL2 because of a lack of flight data or a port-side cockpit photo etc. We are trying to play a game here-this is not some kind of historical archive!

Lets face it, the servicing, type of fuel and pilot of an aircraft are larger variables to the abilities of an airplane than the airplanes themselves!!

LEXX_Luthor
10-07-2007, 07:28 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Yes, but there are more important aspects

As Offline player, I most need the AI to be programmed to fly combat in believable ways, depending on AI skill level, and in almost all combat flight The Sims, the AI does not offer believable combat no matter how "realistic" and/or how "accurate" the flight models are for the Player Plane. I'd say the AI and flight models together are important.

For Online play, at least for people who don't trust each other, the ONLY thing that matters seems to be "cheat free" gameplay, and flight models have Zero importance. Oleg's FB 1.0 to 3.xy Old FM with the artificial trim delay is the best example that I know of disabling flight models to save Online play from itself. For people who get to know others Online where cheating is not an issue, then flight models can become far more important for "hardcore" gameplay immersion and tactics, especially if there are no under-programmed AI (AI piloted level heavy bombers are a working exception).

Interestingly, the AI can "fill out the ranks" of an Online War so -- in theory -- even one (1) person could play an Online War with/against purely AI players. So we see, in the extreme limit, there should be really no difference between Online and Offline play -- except where "cheating" is an issue. Its by examining the extreme limits do we find clues. Trends are set at the margins. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Skoshi Tiger
10-07-2007, 08:37 PM
I haven't played online yet, but it seams to me that these so called "cheats" have just explored their aircraft and are using what they've found to their advantage.

Isn't that what what the successful pilots do/did in real life?

Isn't "vulching" just getting your self into favourable position and taking advantage of an enemy at their most vunerable time. Heck, if thats cheating then neally all of the real life aces are "cheats".

One of the weakness of the game is that kills are awarded to the person that gets in the final shots on a plane. In real life overclaiming was rife and even the aces themselves knew that! But until they can work out how to allot partial kills this is always going to be a problem.

Maybe they need to have a Hit/Miss ratio so kills aren't the only way of recognising ability.

sailorman.jim
10-10-2007, 05:33 AM
I agree with Freelancer1. It is the FM in relation to other planes that is important. As was said elsewhere, it is not possible in any Sim to be 100% accurate,

Some time ago, I had the opportunity to fly the A-10 simulator at Davis-Monthan AFB in Tucson, AZ. This was a multi-million-dollar USAF setup and it was not totally accurate, For example, I could not loop a loaded plane, it would run out of energy at the top of the loop and fall into an inverted flat spin. I could never recover from that, either. But the NCOIC told me that REAL A-10 drivers could do both. That might be one of the reasons I was not permitted into a real A-10. Heh Heh http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

BrotherVoodoo
10-10-2007, 02:01 PM
Reply
I prefer a realistic FM. Like our MS friends say "as real as it gets"

XyZspineZyX
10-10-2007, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Yes, but there are more important aspects

As Offline player, I most need the AI to be programmed to fly combat in believable ways, depending on AI skill level

I would not say "more important", but rather "every bit as important". But in general I agree

Stew278
10-10-2007, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
For me me it's not the actual flight models that are important.

It's the flight models relative to the other planes.

So as long as the relative differences are correct then a few details in the FMs don't really matter so much. It is, after all, a computer simulation and will never approach what it's like in RL anyway.

+1

BadA1m
10-10-2007, 07:03 PM
Wow, a thread were most of the respondents more or less, relatively speaking, sort of aggree! Me too.

Giantiguana20
10-11-2007, 01:08 PM
I want accurate flight models, because as long as people are focusing on being accurate you don't get the best plane in the game scenario. As soon as you start balancing planes against each other, personal biases on performance become a factor. You can't compare the planes for performance specs, because then you also end up comparing the pilots, because to get a comparison, you have to fly em. Most of the time historical comparisons are used, and lets be fair, early war German pilots were way better than most of the pilots they were up against, and some of the Japanese planes didn't even have radios!! I say use the data, improvise where you have to, then look at the results and see how your plane matches up with history.

furyan65
10-11-2007, 07:58 PM
Very important to me. I love perving at them! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif
Detail deatil and more detail dam thee!
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z150/Rehab_010/thunderboltR22.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z150/Rehab_010/Hellcatfiring50s.jpg