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WirMussen
09-28-2005, 02:44 PM
To: BdU
From: Herr Kaleun Flick
Date: 13th September 1939
Time: 11:49am


returning from 1st patrol (BE31) submerged for hydrophone sweep, picked up multiple contacts on hydrophone, upon moving to investigate it becomes clears its a convoy, an unreported convoy, infact the largest convoy i have ever seen!

Convoy:

2 V&W Destroyer
1 Tribal Destroyer
1 Flower Corvette

2 Small Merchant
3 Coastal Merchant
4 C2 Cargo
1 T2 Tanker
1 T3 Tanker
3 Troop Transport

position AM52, course east, speed 4kts
weather is all clear, wind speed=11mps
torpedos left: 8, bow=6 stern=2 external=0

as you can see by my position im heading into the irish sea, and shallow water. so i cannot pursue the convoy for too long, im positioned rear of the centre of the convoy infront of rear escort (i was detected and decided to hide under a C2 cargo).
my usual rule for engaging a convoy is to pick off the largest 2-3 ships and slip away, but there is just too many large ships here for me to just slip away.

this is were i need some advise, of the 8 torpedos i have left all i can think of doing is taking out the propellers of the ships i want to destroy, but there is 9 ships i want to take out, and i dont believe the weather will improve any time soon http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif please tell me which exact ships to target and how to go about the attack.

im too defensive for these attacks, it goes against my style of play http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif


PS. i sould really like to get some screenies of this attack, hopefully they will be good enough to share. whats the best (free) programme for taking multiple screenies?

PPS. can i make 2 saves in one mission?

Kaleun1961
09-28-2005, 02:50 PM
Considering your position near the coast and therefore the possibility of air support coming out to assist the convoy, [yes, in spite of the weather, I don't trust the computer when it comes to cheating this way]I would advise a more conservative attack, targetting the most valuable ships and trying to make sure they sink with the first attack. There is no way to guarantee that you will be able to pick off the cripples afterward.

Try this screen shot utility, it is great, recommended to my by Chrystine:

http://fly.to/matthias-holzer

Make a folder for your screenshots, put the programme in that folder and then just print the "Print Screen " button on your keyboard; all the screen shots will go into that folder.

Kaleun1961
09-28-2005, 02:52 PM
Sorry, the link does not work. Try searching for the programme by title, FSScreen 1.1 or try searching in this forum for screenshots, and maybe the thread with the download address will still be there.

Kaleun1961
09-28-2005, 02:53 PM
Another way of getting screenshots is by pressing Shift + F11. The screenshots will go directly into your game folder. If you take a lot of them, your game folder will quickly grow large.

WirMussen
09-28-2005, 03:07 PM
by conservative, do you mean break off and intercept from a perfect position?

iv got pretty good at imobilising ships but it takes 1 torpedo to do that (magnetic under-keel shot from rear) then another to finish it off, so theres 4 ships destroyed (out of the 8 i want to destroy)...but then theres the escorts...the airsupport...the duds...the pressure of being a kaleun.

im pissed off at the BdU for not giving me fair warning, i wasted 2 torpedos destroying a coastal merchant just hours before detecting convoy.

thanks for the programme, il get straight on it. i just want a programme to take pictures in .jpeg, im fed up with editing them.

Chrystine
09-28-2005, 03:19 PM
*

Hi WirMussen,

Interesting situation.

My suggestion is to hit the largest ships you can in sequence ranked by target-size and relative-certainty of getting a good hit.
Alluring as the opportunity is, don€t get pulled into over-extending yourself being overly-brash (€˜greedy€).
If you can kill the two tankers €" take any other target offering itself to a near-certain kill shot, as a gift €" regardless of it€s type or size.

The Escort Company, while not huge, is significant (IMO).
Plenty enough to find & fix your position if things go south, and are likely to be tenacious.

I€ll have to say too, tho€ in saying so €" I€m generally pretty €˜cautious€ myself in dealing with Escorted Convoy€s.
I take what I can and don€t tempt the fates (or the Escorts).

I€m not sure €" but attempt(s) to target the propellers in those water conditions (winds 11 mps), might be an undue risk of wasting some torps.
If it were me, I€d aim for engine rooms & fuel bunkers.

( All the above written before I saw Kaleun€s already said the same more or less €" if I understood correctly ). http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

€œ whats the best (free) programme for taking multiple screenies?€

As Kaleun€s said €" I do like FSScreen and for my own reasons still choose it over all others: I€m not sure I€d necessarily call it €˜the best€ universally anymore tho€.

If you€d like to try it: <span class="ev_code_pink">FSScreen.zip</span> (http://idealhorizons.intuity.net/FSScreen.zip)

Another €" and the one I€m actually more inclined to generally think overall €˜the best€ for what this is €" is Snapshooter.

If you€d like to try this one: <span class="ev_code_pink">Snapshooter.zip / ca. 1.6MB</span> (http://idealhorizons.intuity.net/snpsh211.zip).

€œPPS. can i make 2 saves in one mission?€

You can make many saves in a Mission. Exceeding 30 isn€t advised, things start slowing down notably the more saves you have.

Best, & BOL!
~ C.

EDIT & Added Note: €œi just want a programme to take pictures in .jpeg, im fed up with editing them.€

Go with the Snapshooter then.
FSScreen saves only in *.bmp format.

Cheers!

*

WirMussen
09-28-2005, 03:41 PM
thanks Chrystine, snapshooter is excellent.

the advise seems to be not to take any risks, but after looking at the map i only have 8-20km of shallow water, i think il cheat a little and make a save cause i have a feeling this will be good for experience, especially if i mess it up.

im gonna move out to a flanking column of the convoy using a ship for cover and start firing torpedoes into the centre ships.

thanks for the advise, here goes...

Chrystine
09-28-2005, 04:11 PM
*

My pleasure €¦

Best of luck and good hunting!

~ C.

P.S. Don€t forget to share the €˜photos!€ http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

*

Gunnersman
09-28-2005, 06:25 PM
ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK! Are you nuts man?! Thats the whole point of the U-boat! You have a perfect target of opportunity and it is YOUR DUTY, Herr Kaleun, to sink those ships!

Just make sure and attack at NIGHT. You dont have to do a surface attack either. Do an "End Run". Get out in front of the convoy. When you see them, dive (You only need about 15m of depth to operate. You will have plenty of room). Let the escort(s) pass (They are still inexpirienced at this time frame).

Get inside the main body of the convoy so you can get as close as you can to your target of choice. LET THE FISH FLY! I usually use two torps per ship, for the big ships. Sit back and watch the fireworks.

Slip out of the back of the convoy. Do it all over again until 1) day break or 2) you run out of torpedoes.

I could never let a target of opportunity pass like that. Besides....IT'S WAR....Right Chrystine! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

WirMussen
09-29-2005, 08:13 AM
well, i did attacked the convoy last night but went to bed before reporting back to yas. basically it didnt go too well, i realoded the game and attempted to intercept the convoy again, my main problem is that im behind the convoy, its mid-day and i have limited time.
i moved as close to the starboard escort to try and slip past behind it, i was detected but managed to lose the escort when he turned and placed me in his blind spot. this left the whole starboard side of the convoy for me to stage my attack, launched 4 torpedos at 4 targets (T2, T3 and 2 troops transports, bad idea in hindsight). i then sat in the command room and listened out for impacts, i heard 1 clearly, then realised i should be taking screenies. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b158/WirMussen/ScreenShot35.jpg
final 3 torpedoes, all were under-keel shots so as not to hit the smaller ships. 1st torpedo (out of shot) hit a troop transport. the 4th, on the left, missed the stern of the T3 by metres, then passed under the small merchant. the centrte and right torpedoes both hit the T2 (luckily).
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b158/WirMussen/ScreenShot39.jpg
the T2 was left dead in the water by the convoy.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b158/WirMussen/ScreenShot80.jpg
i returned 3hrs later to finish the T2 off, with my special attack, THE FLYING TORPEDO.

(my three remaining torpedoes were used to sink a DD, and 2 more shots missed the T2 (they were zig-zagging)).

Chrystine
09-29-2005, 10:16 AM
*

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Weigh it all!

When a Kapitan or Commander asks for such advice, he has already made known he has the Will to €œATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK!€ €" so that is not the question.

Of course it is one€s duty always to seize the initiative when possible, to create, identify and otherwise exploit an opportunity to strike €" true for all in war, regardless of rank.
But it is the Commander in the A.O. who has sized up the elements for that: the tactical situation, the target environment, the status of his command, condition of his men & arms, armaments at-hand, etc. €" and s/he is a useless conduit and inevitable waste of all the above if not fully-aware of the extant limitations to what is possible.

If the thing can be done, do it.
If it can be done with acceptable risk €" do it.
If it cannot be done €" don€t try.
If it may be do-able, but only with unacceptable risk €" don€t try.

Quite frankly €" we can€t afford the loss of the boat, this Kapitan (Willing & eager to attack!) nor the crew.
It is likewise his duty to return with all of the above.
If this €˜opportunity€ were understood to be unique of it€s kind in the war, the evaluation of what constitutes €˜acceptable risk€ would be modified. Likewise if the boat, Kapitan and crew were more easily expendable.

Of course it€s ones duty to throw ones javelin. It is not ones duty to throw it away and to be killed for the effort.

A loaded tube a'rest on the bottom in a destroyed sub is forfeit, and advantage to the enemy.

€œThats the whole point of the U-boat!€

& advising how to negate that purpose is helpful only to the enemy. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Any advice offered in good-faith is valuable.
Given what WirMussen said and then asked, giving benefit of doubt to the Kapitan€s intelligence and lack of cataracts, prudence should counsel offering conservative encouragement to aggression.

Even a Wolf-pack€s rendition of the Charge of the Light Brigade will almost certainly end sharing similar fate with Lord Cardigan€s Hussars.
The more so attempted by a lone U-boat.

i.e. What is visible and instantaneously-reasoned is not synonymous with, nor proof of, the possible.

€œI could never let a target of opportunity pass like that. Besides....IT'S WAR....Right Chrystine! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif €œ

Right you are! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
With such limited arms (the small number of our boats in this war), it is not enough to strike at the enemy: one should be sure to strike the enemy.
Then come home so enabled to do it again, and again!.

..But it is only €œa target of opportunity€ if it is possible€¦ http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


To WirMussen €"

Excellent!
To my view you did exactly right and did it well€¦
A good attack!

Nice shots, too! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Best,
~ C.

*

Kaleun1961
09-29-2005, 10:31 AM
In consideration of my advice as to target conservatively compared to the outcome, it would seem the conservative approach would have been more effective and efficient. Without this being critical of Wir Mussen's bold attack [to which I offer congratulations considering the odds] I state that having targetted four ships with four torpedoes, to knock one out of the convoy, which further required one more torpedo to finish, was ultimately a waste of torpedoes. It took five torpedoes to kill one ship; do the math.

Had he aimed four torpedoes at the two most valuable ships, carefully timed to detonate simultaneously, the tonnage sunk would most likely have been higher. What may have happened, based on my analysis of the photos, is that upon the first torpedo impacts, the other ships began evasive maneuvers. This is why I don't fire at many ships at once.

Congratulations on this bold attack are still in order. Faced with a negative position, our Kaleun still managed to sink a valuable target from this convoy. No doubt he has learned some valuable lessons which will be applied in future battles.

Wir Mussen, prost!

The_Silent_O
09-29-2005, 10:46 AM
TOP SECRET - HEAD OF STATE EYES ONLY
ENIGMA DECRYPT
BLETCHLY PARK
141400OCT39

BEGIN DECRYPT
////////////////////////////////////////////////
Date: 2 October 1939
From: Herr Minister Speer
To: GrossAdmiral Doenitz
Subject: New Camoflage Scheme for TI and TII torpedos

1) Following Recent patrol report from Kaleun Flick (U-**), Der Furher has directed the UnterZeeBoatWaffe to paint all torpedos with fisheyes near the charge, large fins on the midbody, and tail like pattern near rudders.

2) This new camoflage pattern will be known as "Fliegenfische" and it is hoped that the english shipmasters will not notice the torpedo skimming above the water at 1 to 2 meters, but instead think it is a strange variety of a fish species known to "fliegen" above water.

signed,
Speer
ReichMinister of Armaments

PS - There is no need to feed these "fleigenfische" while on patrol
///////////////////////////////////////////////
END OF DECRYPT



I realize I'm taking liberties with facts and timelines here. Just a bit of humor

WirMussen
09-29-2005, 10:48 AM
thanks guys,
the biggest mistake i made (as stated) was engaging 4 targets, i was just hoping they would all be hindered/immobalised(sp?). and being detected moving in to fire didnt help. and i only had steam torpedoes, which i dont like.
it was valuable experience, but that is the only time i have been let down the BdU, normally i would been informed and waiting in ambush, not playing catch up from behind. so usually the odds are in my favour, but this made a nice change and a difficult challenge for Herr Flick.

il probably replay the scenario once or twice so im not caught completely off-guard in future.

once again, thanks.

EDIT: lol Silent_O, when that torpedo came out of the water i was worried it mite clear the T2 because it was so low in the water

Kaleun1961
09-29-2005, 10:55 AM
You can use your F6 key and go to the weapon officer's map to determine the running times of your torpedoes. With careful firing, you can plan it so your torpedoes, running to distant and near targets can impact approximately simultaneously.

I hit two battleships and a cruiser within seconds of each other, with 4 steam torps and 1 electric torp, using this method. It is eminently satisfying to hear a quick succession of explosions, within seconds of each other, and to know that you hit all the targets before they even realized they were under attack.

WirMussen
09-29-2005, 11:08 AM
i do that occassionally, mainly at night and by changing the speed of each torpedo, but i dont like staggering my steam torpedos too much.

iv never come across a task force http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

but this engagement does make me wish this game was and mmorpg, or had an online campaign at least

Chrystine
09-29-2005, 11:20 AM
*

Kaleun€s Post above: 12:31 pm.

Hear-hear!
Well said.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ..Hilarious Otto!
In more ways than one!
It is only too easy to hear Speer saying such €" in (Hogan€s Heroes) earnestness€¦ http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

€œ..that is the only time i have been let down [by] the BdU, normally i would been informed and waiting in ambush, not playing catch up from behind.€

If you were able and failed to report your contact with the Convoy €" it might rather be thought you let Bdu down. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Bdu is stuck ashore and can only pass-along the contact reports received from the boats at-sea (or aircraft; or SIGNIT).
It is often difficult or altogether unreasonable to even attempt surfacing solely to report a convoy contact: if you€re already on the surface and are in contact €" don€t forget to send Bdu the intelligence.
It is no-less vital to the war effort than what your array of torpedoes may achieve while you€re present.
Remember that regardless of where you may encounter any convoy €" at some point, Someone has to be the first boat to see and report it.

Best,
~ C.

*

Kaleun1961
09-29-2005, 11:40 AM
What bothers me about the game is its seemingly arbitrary manner in which you are allowed to report those convoys. I can clearly see and count the ships, but when I order the radioman to send the report and check it using the M key, I find that no report has been sent, in spite of the "contact report sent" message.

There also seems to be some time limit when you do get off such a report and when you are allowed to send an update. I also wonder why I can receive radio messages while at periscope depth but cannot send messages while at periscope depth. Can't the antenna be extended while at scope depth? If I can receive, why can't I send?

The_Silent_O
09-29-2005, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by Kaleun1961:
What bothers me about the game is its seemingly arbitrary manner in which you are allowed to report those convoys. I can clearly see and count the ships, but when I order the radioman to send the report and check it using the M key, I find that no report has been sent, in spite of the "contact report sent" message.

There also seems to be some time limit when you do get off such a report and when you are allowed to send an update. I also wonder why I can receive radio messages while at periscope depth but cannot send messages while at periscope depth. Can't the antenna be extended while at scope depth? If I can receive, why can't I send?

I believe the answer is that it takes much more power to send a transmission than to receive one.

Are there Any HAM or military radio operators out there that can confirm this?

Kaleun1961
09-29-2005, 11:55 AM
Good idea! My buddy is a very professional ham radio operator, and former police officer. He should know, for sure.

Chrystine
09-29-2005, 12:39 PM
*

€œI can clearly see and count the ships, but when I order the radioman to send the report and check it using the M key, I find that no report has been sent, in spite of the "contact report sent" message.€

How is the weather in those instances?
Those WW II vintage radio sets had a pretty fastidious relationship with the elements, I think.
It€s not too-taxing to the imagination I think €" that we might encounter instances where a message has indeed been sent €" and just as assuredly, lost into the atmosphere without ever being received.

Not to say Ubi did or didn€t model this in SH III€¦
But €"

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Best,
~ C.

*

paulhager
09-29-2005, 01:59 PM
I guess you've concluded that trying to get 1 kill per torp is non-optimal. I almost always fire spreads of two at the best targets: usually a couple of tankers. This almost always yields a kill or a ship dead in the water that I can pick off later.

I have fired single FaTs at targets and gotten kills. Best was 4 FaTs + 1 additional coup de grace for 4 tankers. The FaTs tend to be more forgiving in that a miss can turn into a hit.

WirMussen
09-29-2005, 02:12 PM
i am slowly beginning to use 2 torps per ship, but i want to get more accurate and better at aiming for fuel hold, anyone good at that or is it mainly luck?

Gunnersman
09-29-2005, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by Chrystine:
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Weigh it all!

When a Kapitan or Commander asks for such advice, he has already made known he has the Will to €œATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK!€ €" so that is not the question.


Oops!
I did not weigh it all. I just read where he said, "heading back from a patrol....shallow water....and I am usually conservative in these types of attacks...."

I stand corrected.

That being said.....
In any case.....

ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK!!!!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Kaleun1961
09-29-2005, 03:03 PM
In the context of Wir Mussen's situation [near hostile shores, approaching shallow water]I advised firing two torpedoes at the most valuable ships. If I am far out at sea adn i am confident that I would be able to re-establish contact with the convoy, I fire one torpedo per ship, but I do not fire four torpedoes at the same time. If I do so, it is likely that after the first hit, the convoy begins to evade and my remaining toredoes have a good chance of missing.

After hitting the first two ships, and provided the escorts are not breathing down my neck, I wait until the convoy settles down to its new course and fire again. If I am in my favourite position, inside the convoy, I am so close that evasive actions by the convoy are not of much use to them.

Most of my kills are made with one torpedo, fired at 90 degrees into a vulnerable spot, like engines, fuel or ammo stores. In this manner I have sunk large cargo ships with one torpedo. Oddly, it is sometimes smaller ships like a C2 that can be tough as compared to that large cargo ship.

WirMussen
09-29-2005, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by Kaleun1961:

Most of my kills are made with one torpedo, fired at 90 degrees into a vulnerable spot, like engines, fuel or ammo stores. In this manner I have sunk large cargo ships with one torpedo.

how do u aim that shot, i use auto-TDC and have tried hovering the periscope sight over the section of the ship i would like to hit without locking on. one time i tried that the torp completely missed (actually turned wrong direction after firing).

Kaleun1961
09-29-2005, 03:12 PM
Do you have the merchant vulnerability mod? it shows you where all the hit zones are and labels them in different colours. The hit spots only indicate if you are close to 90 degrees to the target. If they are not lighting up, then you are at the incorrect angle, or not close enough. I believe you have to be under 1000 metres.

With auto targetting all you have to do is click on the zone you wish to hit and the Weapons Officer does the rest. It's good training for leading up to manual targetting, which I, to my chagrin, have not done yet, but am very close to doing so.