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jugent
03-14-2005, 03:44 PM
I tried to make some inverted loopings but it is almost impossible, the plane dont respond to the elevator at all flying inverted.
Does this reflect how it is in real life?

I have not tried every plane.

jugent
03-14-2005, 03:44 PM
I tried to make some inverted loopings but it is almost impossible, the plane dont respond to the elevator at all flying inverted.
Does this reflect how it is in real life?

I have not tried every plane.

reverendkrv1972
03-14-2005, 04:28 PM
outside loop should be possible...still not pulled it off yet,seems to take a huge amount of sky.

good luck trying,give us a shout if you do http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Rev

LStarosta
03-14-2005, 04:44 PM
You can do it in almost any fuel injected aircraft. Just start off with a dive, gain somewhere around 600KMH IAS, flip onto yer belly and push on the **** stick like there aint no tomorrow.

FI_Willie
03-14-2005, 07:06 PM
Yep, takes a LOT of sky and a LOT of speed as I recall. Some planes do it better than others.

I suggest you start the loop from the top rather than the bottom.

At least that way you'll be headed uphill if it falls out on you.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

SlickStick
03-14-2005, 08:27 PM
Hop into the BI-1 and get her going up over 900km/h or so and she'll outside loop all by herself.

As a matter of fact, just trying not to outside loop at high speeds in that rocket is the real chore. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

TX-EcoDragon
03-15-2005, 02:22 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jugent:
I tried to make some inverted loopings but it is almost impossible . . .
Does this reflect how it is in real life? . . .QUOTE]

Not really, generally there is better negative elevator authority in the real world counterparts than what we have in this sim. You need an airframe good for -4 Gs and then you are more or less good to go.

Platypus_1.JaVA
03-15-2005, 09:37 AM
Good fighter pilots never pull negative G.

It is said that negative G is very VERY uncomfortable. All the blood going to your head, it not only feels wrong, it is very unhealty too. You really don't have any muscle's to counter the blood, flowing all to your head. If you pull positive G, you can tense some muscles in your body and legs to prevent the blood, going all to your feet.

Pulling -4G for a longer period to perform outside loops asks for a very strong pilot and there are also not alot of aircraft that can withstand this kind of force. You see it sometimes on airshows with specially designed aerobatic aircraft but, outside looping is never done with 'ordinary' aircraft. military or civil.

SeaNorris
03-15-2005, 09:38 AM
I dont know muh about this but can be done

womenfly
03-15-2005, 11:22 AM
<span class="ev_code_PINK">Outside loops are best preformed with an aircraft that has a symmetrical wing airfoil. Most fighters did not have this.

It would limit its load carrying ability €¦€¦ just to mention one of the reasons.</span> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

<span class="ev_code_PINK">So €¦.. outside loops are very challenging indeed!</span> http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

TX-EcoDragon
03-15-2005, 12:28 PM
"Good fighter pilots never pull negative G."

That's true Platypus_1.JaVA. . . they push to negative G ;-P

It isn't comfortable, but "good" fighter and aerobatic pilots will learn to push plenty of negative G if they want to be in top form. There are many instances where good control and comfort level in negative G will be a significant advantage over those less practiced and experienced in that aspect of flight. You may not want to set yourself up to use it, don't place yourself in situations where that's the best response, but if the need presents itself it can be a lifesaver. . . in particular if the pilot behind you feels that "Good fighter pilots never pull negative G." In full scale mock dogfights that I have done against a Navy fighter pilot I have tried an aerobatic rolling circle or roller just to be funny. . . that sure goofed him up when he was on my six ;-)

One of my signature moves in the sim works in a similar fashion. . . but is limited by the poor negative elevator response in an unrealistic way.



In the real world surely the figure is an aerobatic maneuver, but most of these fighters have a suffient elevator, -G load limit, airfoil and powerloading to complete these figures, the main problem is the potential for the speed to run away on the back side. I fly these in the PT-17 Stearman now and then and in that case there is a tendency to have no airspeed at the top (and the engine is off too, which doesn't help) and it will max out at 160 mph on the back side with all it's drag. . . on the inside figures the 51 for example will really ramp up when the nose is below the horizon. . . even at idle. . . so they are very different, but both extremems will do them. Now will somone intentionally do them in something like a 51? Probably not.

Having said all that, I don't think an outside loop serves much function in combat, and that wasn't what the initial question was about as far as I can tell. . . but I have done enough of it to know that anything can be handy at the right moment.


Oh and a semi-symmetrical airfoil will do a good enough job at the outside loop, the stresses on the airframe and pilot are usually going to the most limiting factors. . . you can expect to push -4G for a reasonable outside loop, and to do that safely in a fighter you want an aircraft good for at least -5G so that there is some room for error. . . in particular if the pilot fails to push enough and finds them selves racing towards Vne and the G limit on the aircraft. In a full power split S the P-51 will really spin the ASI. . .I know I won't be trying that in negative G in the Pony. :-D

womenfly
03-15-2005, 01:05 PM
<span class="ev_code_PINK">You are right TX-EcoDragon €¦€¦ one needs to be in constant physical shape and due constant aerobatic flight maneuvers to help ones body to sustain G-loads.</span>

With experience in a Pitts S1 doing outside loops in which the neg-G load duration is quick to say the least.

<span class="ev_code_PINK">One cannot imagine doing it in a Big Heavy Fighter!</span>

ClnlSandersLite
03-16-2005, 12:20 AM
I've read about somewhat desperate -g maneuvers to be used. Especially in some of the older aircraft. Modern stuff handles it better, but in the older stuff, it's a mixed bag.

I read about a maneuver once called "Stuffing it all in the corner". What you do is push forward stick and hard coordinated rudder in either direction. Supposedly, it was VERY apalling to even see, much less do. The idea is that if you're willing to take a bit (read: a lot) or punishment in order to escape more, your opponent will likely not follow (it hurts). Of course, it won't buy you too much. If however you're in a better diver, like a jug, you could extend that into a dive and run away. This won't really work in the game though as most people have no hesitation to abuse their virtual selves.

Something else you can use to your advantage is knowing which planes have engine cutout in -g's. In the game, it's most probably harder to restart your engine in midair than irl. Even if that where not an issue, you could get/maintain better airspeed if your engine is running and his isn't. Of course, doing this is defensive. You don't want to be in that situation anyways, but things aren't always perfect.