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View Full Version : You would have sold a ton more games without starforce



jpinard
03-12-2006, 06:29 PM
UBIsoft - You're fooling yourselves of you think utilizing StarForce somehow got you game sales. People would much rather just not play a game using this protection... than buy it. It saddens me how many people I know ~90% refused to buy Silent Hunter 3 because they knew it has Star-Force protection. I'm not one of those people, but it makes me fell very "alone" knowing how many of my friends WATN the game but will not buy it (or any other SF protected title) on principle.

After Star-Force published torrent sites on their forum in an attempt to prod people to pirate Gal Civ 2 (since Gal Civ 2 refuses to use Star-Force), I see UBIsoft as having a major business problem continuing to use this copy protection scheme.

Maybe the downfall in pc gaming wasn't pc gamers after all... but the use of overly-invasive questionable copy protection? I'm going to be pissed as hell if Silent Hunter 3's add-on fails because of a boycott against Star-Force. That's not fair to the developers, and it's not fair to the pc gaming industry.

<edited for typos>

blue_76
03-12-2006, 09:46 PM
copy protection is always beaten.. its just a matter of time. i haven't had any problems with starforce, but judging from so many complaints from so many people, this was a bad move by ubisoft. anyway, this has been a topic of much debate and no result.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

wnt2rd
03-12-2006, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by jpinard:
UBIsoft - You're fooling yourselves of you think utilizing StarForce somehow got you game sales. People would much rather just not play a game using this protection... than buy it. It saddens me how many people I know ~90% refused to buy Silent Hunter 3 because they knew it has Star-Force protection. I'm not one of those people, but it makes me fell very "alone" knowing how many of my friends WATN the game but will not buy it (or any other SF protected title) on principle.

After Star-Force published torrent sites on their forum in an attempt to prod people to pirate Gal Civ 2 (since Gal Civ 2 refuses to use Star-Force), I see UBIsoft as having a major business problem continuing to use this copy protection scheme.

Maybe the downfall in pc gaming wasn't pc gamers after all... but the use of overly-invasive questionable copy protection? I'm going to be pissed as hell if Silent Hunter 3's add-on fails because of a boycott against Star-Force. That's not fair to the developers, and it's not fair to the pc gaming industry.

<edited for typos>

Looks like somebody needs a girlfriend.

jpinard
03-13-2006, 06:22 PM
I'm married thank you, and if you don't care that excellent games may not be made - that's kind of sad. Especially if something could be done about it.

nstutt
03-14-2006, 07:11 AM
If there werent pirates we wouldnt need things like Starforce. Ubisoft are simply protecting their investment. I dont see anything wrong with it and it hasnt affected the operation of my system at all.

I personally think that the only people who really care about Starforce are the people who want everything for nothing. Tough titties to them. Start paying for your games.

Kaleun1961
03-14-2006, 12:33 PM
That's like saying we should let the police into our homes anytime they like, as we have nothing to hide. Star Force has hobbled some people's PC's, and being lucky enough not to be one of them allows you to be smug about it. Ubisoft have trampled over consumer's rights in their efforts to protect their investment. American law allows you to make a backup copy of your game media. Star Force removes that right. How do you feel about a gaming company riding over your legal rights?

I'm also unaffected by Star Force's crippling of some optical drives, but I am peeved that I cannot make by legal backup copy of the game. I do have a legitimately purchased copy of the game, but I have been forced to become a criminal in order to protect my purchase. Never again will I buy a game that has so intrusive a copy protection scheme as this.

Hoatee
03-14-2006, 12:56 PM
I've had no problems with Starforce as of yet.

Not having Starforce is no guarantee that a ton more games would have been sold. People being honest would, however, sell a ton more games.

vozzek6969
03-14-2006, 01:38 PM
Whoa, whoa, whoa...

What's Starforce do to the optical drives? What does it do to system performance? Curious... I keep seeing posts about how much people hate it, but I don't know why.

nstutt
03-14-2006, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by Kaleun1961:
American law allows you to make a backup copy of your game media. Star Force removes that right. How do you feel about a gaming company riding over your legal rights?

I'm also unaffected by Star Force's crippling of some optical drives, but I am peeved that I cannot make by legal backup copy of the game. I do have a legitimately purchased copy of the game, but I have been forced to become a criminal in order to protect my purchase. Never again will I buy a game that has so intrusive a copy protection scheme as this.

I've heard this argument before. Why on earth would you want to make a backup of the game if not to sell it as a pirate copy? Ive similarly got an original game disk. I know if anything ever happens to my game I can reinstall it from that disk. I can back up any section of the game into another folder such as gamesaves etc. I dont need anymore than that. What I cant do is copy the game and give it to my mates to play. But then I wouldnt want to do that would I becuase I'm not a pirate. I can't see any reason for wanting to 'backup my game' unless this is another term for 'copy it and give it to my mates to play'.

Kaleun1961
03-14-2006, 03:39 PM
You seem to think that the only reason to copy a disc is to pirate it. Not true. As the game currently is, you must have your DVD in the drive to play the game. If that disc gets scratched, cracked or otherwise rendered defective, you are then unable to play the game. What are you to do then? Go out and pay for another one? If you are able to make and play from a backup copy, no problem. Anyhow, it is no longer a problem for me as my original is safely in storage.

jpinard
03-14-2006, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by nstutt:
If there werent pirates we wouldnt need things like Starforce. Ubisoft are simply protecting their investment. I dont see anything wrong with it and it hasnt affected the operation of my system at all.

I personally think that the only people who really care about Starforce are the people who want everything for nothing. Tough titties to them. Start paying for your games.

You know what? I would have had the same attitude as you a few years ago. THe problem I have is the way Starforce goes aruond strong-arming people.

And Mstutt - I do buy all my games. I've been purcahsing all my games for 15 years. In fact it's rarer that I ever even sell my older games. I am one of those perfect supporters that does everything in his power to get games sold. You missed the point in that I have a ton of people I know who I desparately wanted to buy SH3 to help support the developers... but they refused because of starforce. SH3 is one of my favorite games EVER, and I wanted to see it expand beyond just an expansion pack, but into a Task Force 1942 type of game as well.

The Romanians who made SH3 are some of the most talented people I've ever seen, and it breaks my heart to konw how many sales were lost due to StarForce. And I think people who are into military sims are NOT into pirating software. We're not your 16-year-old-kiddie crowd. We know the ramifications of pirating and we protect our hobby. If this was an brain-dead fps? Yea, Starforce it. But for a simulation that's already in a tough market?... bad idea.

HeibgesU999
03-14-2006, 07:03 PM
Unforutantely, regardless of the copy-protection, I don't think a subsim will ever sell a ton of copies.

Dissapointed
03-16-2006, 06:16 AM
Firstly, I understand the descision to use the StarForce copy protection was the descision of the publishers and not the developers.

Unfortunately, I am one of those users who has decided against purchasing SH3 because of the use of StarForce.

I am also going to miss out on another game that I would love to own, X3. They also use StarForce.

I am now looking into buying Rome:Total War Gold edition (the DVD version). I am desperately hoping that it does not use StarForce. *desperately holging my thumbs*

I HATE THIS!!!!

The good news is that when SH3 is able to be purchased without StarForce, I will buy it.

I just can't accept being punished for the sins of others, and the recent revelations (true or not) of the IDE stepdown problem just scares me too much to take the chance (and that is just one of the things I have read about).

My AoD deserves a dignified retirement after so may years. My map is so well used I have had to laminate the pieces together!

bweiss
03-16-2006, 06:38 AM
I am now looking into buying Rome:Total War Gold edition (the DVD version). I am desperately hoping that it does not use StarForce. *desperately holging my thumbs*


RTW and the Barbarian Invasion expansion pack do not use Starforce so far as I know. At least the original release of RTW which I purchased, and more recently the BI expansion original release did not contain it. Both purchased in the US. Interestingly though, Starforce is included with Call of Duty 2 (COD2), US release. However to my knowledge it had none of the problems, or far less problems than that encountered within the SH3 community, being seemingly unobtrusive with the install of COD2. But then I never encountered a technical problem with it on SH3 as many have reported.

vozzek6969
03-16-2006, 07:27 AM
Again, what problems are people encountering with Starforce? What's so bad about it???

(New to this...)

mw2000
03-16-2006, 11:42 AM
I have Rome Total War Gold Edition and here in the UK the copy protection is Safedisc. It does not matter to me if the game uses Safedisc, Securom or Starforce protection as I manage to back up all my originals anyway.

Its about time they closed Bit Torrents sites and make people pay to play computer games instead of downloading them.

vozzek6969
03-16-2006, 11:58 AM
Forget it. I guess no one will ever answer my questions... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

trident42
03-16-2006, 12:01 PM
Unfortuanately for the laws in the US about being able to legitimately make a copy of your games. Game developers HAVE to incorperate more stringent protection into their games as pirates get evermore resourceful. It is thought that 2 Billion pounds are lost to pirates every year in the UK. All Ubisoft games contatin Starforce i believe now, and i have read that it has reduced piracy within their games dramatcally. I myself have had no trouble with the program, but i must agree that some work needs to be done to resolve these issues.

trident42
03-16-2006, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by vozzek6969:
Forget it. I guess no one will ever answer my questions... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

It has been reported that Starforce causes DVD problems, slowing burn speeds and causing other hardware failures, even causing the DVD to "disappear" i have read. But i don't know the reasons why, but there is a lot of people reporting these problems and are convinced that they are starforce related.

ATTACK_HAMSTER
03-16-2006, 12:27 PM
Starforce ! I used to thing "blah, blah, *whine* blah" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

But then for some reason silent hunter would not load. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif I would put the cd in, then nothing but a whirl of the cd player ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

It could sometimes take me 20 mins to just get in the game http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif at this point i researched this problem and i found out that SF was prolly to blame.

So i just dowloaded a no cd crack and viola no more problems i know this ain't legit but i say p1ss off i have bought the game i wanna play it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

The point of this post is don't go "ohh look another starforce whinner" because i did the same until i encountered a problem.

With a little help we can all help each other around it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

But if you don't own a legit copy you can just go hump yourself you pirate git http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

vozzek6969
03-16-2006, 12:28 PM
Ah, thanks Trident.

What's weird is that since installing SH3 my DVD/RW drive has been acting a little strange. It won't autorun stuff anymore. This has happened with two other games I tried to install, and one of them was IL-2. Had to remove and re-install the game to get the Ace Expansion Pack working.

I can't say with certainty that Starforce "did" something to my drive, but it did kinda just start happening...

bweiss
03-16-2006, 08:31 PM
vozzek6969 wrote:

Forget it. I guess no one will ever answer my questions...

Awww we was juss funnin. Harnest!

Well see, I myself never encountered a problem with it, on SH3 or on other games. But to find out all the scoop you'd have to search Starforce, (including all the witty synonyms that have been coined for their name to express a particular opinion), to wit one might well then find themselves reading a third of the forums thread count over the course of the game. I stopped keeping track when the theory came out they killed Kennedy.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

jpinard
03-16-2006, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by vozzek6969:
Ah, thanks Trident.

What's weird is that since installing SH3 my DVD/RW drive has been acting a little strange. It won't autorun stuff anymore. This has happened with two other games I tried to install, and one of them was IL-2. Had to remove and re-install the game to get the Ace Expansion Pack working.

I can't say with certainty that Starforce "did" something to my drive, but it did kinda just start happening...

One of the big problems with StarForce is the closed door discussions they have about technical issues. They have a forum, but you can't post problem for resolution there. They had a campaign "Prove Starforce killed your drive and get $10,000". Well there's 2 huge problems with that. Number 1, is you have to pay your own way to Moscow. Number 2 is no matter what kind of evidence you may have, once your drive is dead... its dead. I mean there's no way to prove it unless it can be replicated on seprarate systems. But who has the money to keep buying identical drives to try and replicate a kill? And the problem isn't so much hardware dieing as it is, that hardware ceases to function properly.

Many of the people at Starforce are arrogant and ignorant - claiming people are the problem, not them. I also know some of their employees are most probably former hackers and piraters. That makes me very uncomfortable. What's more disgusting to me is you can walk tdown the straeets of Leningrad and Moscow and buy any game you can imagine for a dollar. I find it ironic a nation that peddles stolen wares is also trying to force the world to use it's protection schemes.

It's just so unfair to developers and honest users.

Acunnon
03-16-2006, 10:50 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Tempestate
03-17-2006, 07:09 AM
Well try this on for another newer type of copy protection that means keeping extra hardware on your computer

http://www.steelbeasts.com/index.php

This game comes with a usb dongle for protection!! However this allows you to backup the CD.
Where does that leave you? Well if your dongle breaks down you are up for a third the price of the game to replace it. Thats about $30 american

However its a military grade simulator so I can live with that.

jpinard
03-18-2006, 02:38 AM
Originally posted by Tempestate:
Well try this on for another newer type of copy protection that means keeping extra hardware on your computer

http://www.steelbeasts.com/index.php

This game comes with a usb dongle for protection!! However this allows you to backup the CD.
Where does that leave you? Well if your dongle breaks down you are up for a third the price of the game to replace it. Thats about $30 american

However its a military grade simulator so I can live with that.

Yea I saw that. The retail consumer release won't require a dongle. I think that's primaryily to control what countries it's distributed to... though when I worked on Nascar Racing 2003 we all had to use a dongle too.

Treesqueak
03-18-2006, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by Tempestate:
Well try this on for another newer type of copy protection that means keeping extra hardware on your computer

http://www.steelbeasts.com/index.php

This game comes with a usb dongle for protection!! However this allows you to backup the CD.
Where does that leave you? Well if your dongle breaks down you are up for a third the price of the game to replace it. Thats about $30 american

However its a military grade simulator so I can live with that.

$125! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif That's one I'll pass on.

Mike http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

Backdraft57
03-18-2006, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by Kaleun1961:
That's like saying we should let the police into our homes anytime they like, as we have nothing to hide. Star Force has hobbled some people's PC's, and being lucky enough not to be one of them allows you to be smug about it. Ubisoft have trampled over consumer's rights in their efforts to protect their investment. American law allows you to make a backup copy of your game media. Star Force removes that right. How do you feel about a gaming company riding over your legal rights?

I'm also unaffected by Star Force's crippling of some optical drives, but I am peeved that I cannot make by legal backup copy of the game. I do have a legitimately purchased copy of the game, but I have been forced to become a criminal in order to protect my purchase. Never again will I buy a game that has so intrusive a copy protection scheme as this.

Amen Brother! I 2nd your post.

ahclem
03-18-2006, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by vozzek6969:
Forget it. I guess no one will ever answer my questions... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Google "Starforce" go to the second link shown.

Hoatee
03-20-2006, 04:16 AM
Dongles can be emulated.

Pirschjaeger
03-20-2006, 04:47 AM
If Starforce is really for copy protection it´s more of a joke. Starforce is the reason I used a copy.

I bought an original cd of SH3. Installing it was not a problem but I remember I couldn´t patch it because of the protection thing. In the end, I had to use a copy and then install the patches.

Way-t-go Ubi. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Josef_Schwejk
03-20-2006, 09:23 AM
Yeah stareforce is a JOKE!!!

Everyone says "Starforce games you can't copy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif , Starforce games you can't crack http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif !" and so on.All wrong.Starforce is NOTHING better in protection than older systems.

And now everyone says "There is only a cracked 1.0 of SH3!" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

BBBBBBBEEEEEEEEPPPPPPPPPPP! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif


Wrong.Latest cracked version is 1.4b!

Starforce helps you nothing UBISOFTYS.

It will only be a thing that sucks for a regular user, wich don't wanna SELL copys, and only wants them to have a scratch free safe playing disk PLUS his original disk wich stays undamadged, and makes it NOTHING harder for pirates.

Even better for the Fu*king copy selling pirates, because poeple buy this copys now, and don't do it by themselfs, wich no money gets maked with the copy's!

You make it just harder for you UBI'S.But you sure already know that................ http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif