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albertwesker22
05-21-2010, 01:10 PM
The boss fights in AC 2 were extremely dull. I know the point is to assassinate them unseen, but fights with Vieri and Borgia(which are mandatory) could have been made more exciting.

The last fight with Borgia bored me to tears. All I did was counter, counter, counter, with the occasional counter here and there.

In AC 3 they should put epic battles in there. Give them unique moves that set them apart from standard gaurds. They would need to reveamp the combat system for that though. That would be a good thing because barely nothing had changed from first game.

What do you think could be improved to boss fights, and the combat system in general.

Ross_Auditore
05-21-2010, 01:20 PM
I can see were your coming from. I patrially agree with the 'dull' part. I personally hope your requests for AC3 comes true. The would be legendary.

Assasins Creed: Bloodlines looks very promising (AC2.5)

El_Sjietah
05-21-2010, 01:54 PM
Yeh, the Borgia fight was a real snoozefest. All I did was equip the hidden blades and whack away. Having bosses that only differ from regular enemies by their gazillion HP is so 1995.

Murcuseo
05-21-2010, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by El_Sjietah:
Having bosses that only differ from regular enemies by their gazillion HP is so 1995.

Thats why I stopped playing WoW... not that they were the same as regular enemies but it was the same fight mechanics but with a new name, model and animation.

Six_Gun
05-21-2010, 02:37 PM
I found it funny and ridiculous that while grabbing Rodrigo and kneeing him and knocking him down in the end hand to hand battle after wearing him down, he was still intent on rattling on about his take on things.

There basically ARE no boss battles in AC2. There's so much potential for it too. How about at least at the end where you have to take out the 9 lieutenants they had made it more interesting. Like the battle pit you get trapped in where guys are on the roof slinging arrows and others jump down to attack. They could have used archers with flaming arrows and those archers could have at least dodged a bit when you throw knives at them.

It would have been interesting if they had incorporated fire propagation into that one. Like trying to climb up the scaffolding before it becomes engulfed in fire. As is you aren't even forced to fight on the roof ledges. You can go up and trigger each wave and easily take them on one at a time from below, then take the archers out from below with knives while they just stand there defenseless.

For the other lieutenants they could have made the escape more difficult with a scripted blocking of entrances and your weapon gets knocked down or something of that sort. How about a mission where you obtain a full suit of Brute armor to go into disguise but get caught, then have to take on a whole squad of them unarmed without armor in their training ground, where they are stripped of armor too and faster, more agile and less fatigued because of it.

The Brute in disguise mission would be just an alternate attempt at getting into the Pallazo you fly Davinci's machine into. I didn't like that they merely had an uneventful mission where you just look for a way in. It seemed a bit odd that Ezio after all he'd accomplished sneaking into places, would trust Leonardo's prototype glider on a potentially suicidal mission before trying another method more familiar to him.

One of the battles that was a real let down for me was the one where the 2nd Orsy brother is said to have escaped to the mountains. I was expecting an epic chase that actually went into the mountain map instead of an easy chase where you can grab a horse and get to him before he even gets to his guards at the lighthouse.

JohnConnor2012
05-21-2010, 07:41 PM
Didn#'t even do that - just jumped on 2nd bro' before he could leg it. Cut scene cut in then, despite swarms of guards who didn't quite get there in time...

More generally, what I found most tiresome about the bosses (e.g. Rodrigo Borgia, Aldo Moro) was the **number** of times you had to 'kill' them and how cut scenes tended to dominate such action in an attempt to add novelty. Kind of amusing the pope turned out to be more atheistic than some assassin sent to kill him though.

Six_Gun
05-22-2010, 02:04 AM
LOL, try jumping on that 2nd Orsy before he takes off when you're P4 is getting less than 15 FPS and see how well you do with it.

Yeah, they obviously fell in love with their flawed story with all the cutscenes and rehashing through fighting main characters more than once.

It seems they even saw fit to degrade the Pope to the level of their own kind, the Templars. What can I say, it's a very French game.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Meleth1977
05-22-2010, 02:32 AM
Originally posted by JohnConnor2012:
More generally, what I found most tiresome about the bosses (e.g. Rodrigo Borgia, Aldo Moro) was the **number** of times you had to 'kill' them and how cut scenes tended to dominate such action in an attempt to add novelty. Kind of amusing the pope turned out to be more atheistic than some assassin sent to kill him though.

I agree...how many times didn't we have to "kill" him?! And then only to see him scamper away?! I was so annoyed, I just spent a good time hacking him to death and the dude can then just jump up and scamper without Ezio being able to follow... Many times did I say "Ezio! You moron!"

Abeonis
05-22-2010, 05:37 AM
Originally posted by albertwesker22:
The last fight with Borgia bored me to tears. All I did was counter, counter, counter, with the occasional counter here and there.


The problem is, the combat system in AC somewhat precludes the possibility of anything more then that. Granted, the developers can make the boss fights harder by increasing HP, or restricting counter times or whatever, but it's not going to be Tomb Raider style boss fights, ever.

albertwesker22
05-22-2010, 06:15 AM
[/QUOTE] I agree...how many times didn't we have to "kill" him?! And then only to see him scamper away?! I was so annoyed, I just spent a good time hacking him to death and the dude can then just jump up and scamper without Ezio being able to follow... Many times did I say "Ezio! You moron!"[/QUOTE]

Thats hardly a defence. The current combat system has to go, its as simple as that. It may be fun when you effortlessly masacre an army with a broom but when the last fight of the game was no different than fighting a normal gaurd with much more health, you can't help feel the Anti-Climax(from a strictly gameplay perspective).

Murcuseo
05-22-2010, 06:45 AM
Originally posted by albertwesker22:

Thats hardly a defence. The current combat system has to go, its as simple as that. It may be fun when you effortlessly masacre an army with a broom but when the last fight of the game was no different than fighting a normal gaurd with much more health, you can't help feel the Anti-Climax(from a strictly gameplay perspective).

Its not quite 'as simple as that.', the current system just needs to be reworked to make it more engaging, not completely discarded. The most annoying thing about the combat with guards was having to wait while they shuffled about and took turns, if you remove that and add the defensive breaks back in it will put you in the position of not wanting to be in a battle with a dozen guards cause you know you'll get slaughtered. Being vulnerable after blocking and getting floored is obviously another thing.

Also, if a particular body part gets struck you should see the effect it has rather than just being this super human entity that can get hacked with a sword and just bleed a little...

For example: If you get struck hard enough on your main-hand shoulder when you're weilding a sword you should swap the weapon to the other hand and cradle your main hand, which then weakens you to attacks on the main hand side. Therefor you have to think more defensively and make sure to reposition yourself to guard it. Also, you may not fight as good with your off hand so again that weakens you're offence and defense!

End bosses should have counter kills and really punishing heavy attacks that cause massive damage... and of course defensive breaks but even more so they should be clever and adapt to your fighting style. I feel there should be some kind of adrenaline system with bosses aswell, the more they succeed in breaking your defences the higher the adrenaline should be, thus he fights harder to defeat you and vice versa... if you're kicking his butt he should gradually get weaker and weaker but still have the odd burst of adrenaline to counter you.

My 2 cents...

PlagueDoctor357
05-22-2010, 07:35 AM
They do try to go for realism in an unrealistic game.

I enjoy it.

Hell I barely fought him I just liked listening to the story line.

I mean, this isn't a hey this human is stronger than the other so let's give him a ton of HP and special moves.

He was a pope and probably not much of a fighter.

Mitro-Blade
05-22-2010, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by Robson19822009:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by albertwesker22:

Thats hardly a defence. The current combat system has to go, its as simple as that. It may be fun when you effortlessly masacre an army with a broom but when the last fight of the game was no different than fighting a normal gaurd with much more health, you can't help feel the Anti-Climax(from a strictly gameplay perspective).

Its not quite 'as simple as that.', the current system just needs to be reworked to make it more engaging, not completely discarded. The most annoying thing about the combat with guards was having to wait while they shuffled about and took turns, if you remove that and add the defensive breaks back in it will put you in the position of not wanting to be in a battle with a dozen guards cause you know you'll get slaughtered. Being vulnerable after blocking and getting floored is obviously another thing.

Also, if a particular body part gets struck you should see the effect it has rather than just being this super human entity that can get hacked with a sword and just bleed a little...

For example: If you get struck hard enough on your main-hand shoulder when you're weilding a sword you should swap the weapon to the other hand and cradle your main hand, which then weakens you to attacks on the main hand side. Therefor you have to think more defensively and make sure to reposition yourself to guard it. Also, you may not fight as good with your off hand so again that weakens you're offence and defense!

End bosses should have counter kills and really punishing heavy attacks that cause massive damage... and of course defensive breaks but even more so they should be clever and adapt to your fighting style. I feel there should be some kind of adrenaline system with bosses aswell, the more they succeed in breaking your defences the higher the adrenaline should be, thus he fights harder to defeat you and vice versa... if you're kicking his butt he should gradually get weaker and weaker but still have the odd burst of adrenaline to counter you.

My 2 cents... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with you, if the combat system is done something like this, it will make the player want to escape, rather than fighting (Which i was really dissapointed with in AC2).
Today i was replaying MGS4, and in the final boss battle it was done into a kind of fighting game, and that was very well done. Maybe if the devs did something like that in the boss battles, that would be awesome.

Marios725
05-29-2010, 05:12 AM
i think that a boss combat system would indeed please the AC fans. they can make it something like GOW were u must press some buttons to finish off a boss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...r7Gw&feature=channel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc7MzAAr7Gw&feature=channel)

Six_Gun
05-29-2010, 04:25 PM
Dude, you have to stop shamelessly trying to plug your video in every one of your posts, or at least make a sig to link to it. As is it's as if you're trying to interrupt every topic you discuss with it.

Murcuseo
05-29-2010, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by Six_Gun:
Dude, you have to stop shamelessly trying to plug your video in every one of your posts, or at least make a sig to link to it. As is it's as if you're trying to interrupt every topic you discuss with it.

El_Sjietah just commented on this in the Soulless Civilians in AC2 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/2841022468/p/2) thread lol


Originally posted by El_Sjietah:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Six_Gun:

What did that video have to do with any of this topic though?

I'm pretty sure it's his signature http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He could do with putting some kind of divider above it lol