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Chivas
08-09-2005, 09:55 PM
Some nice screenies

http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=11738#11738

RedDeth
08-09-2005, 11:03 PM
Lift your head for a more, over-the-nose view

Lean out the window while taxiing

Keep your eyes fixed on the target

The industry's best padlocking system

The industry's most natural g-force movements



look over the nose and lean out to side.

OLEG TAKE NOTE. your about to get passed.

i might buy this over olegs BOB for these reasons

LeadSpitter_
08-10-2005, 12:59 AM
No offence to rowans I in fact think shockwave makes some great products but this title looks so cfs2ish, game play fms aircraft movement, the only 3 things i can say look slightly better are cockpits, to the old sturmo models explosions and real engine sounds.

But then ac like the ki100 ki84 ki61 me262 bf110 b25 i185 look so superior to rowans pits. But rowans is definatly better in the hurrican spit emils stuka dept then we have.

Rowans seems to be a disapointment, with me being a mostly online player only.

But then again thats rowans vs fb aep pf, bob looks like it will surpass both in visual quality for sure. I also read an article olegs bob will support the 6dof track ir. Include propwash effects like xplane 8.0. Its up to them if they will finally get rid of the il2 engines horrid synth sounds.

I will probally pick rowans bobs II up anyways becuase all wwii prop sims I enjoy alot.

Chivas
08-10-2005, 01:27 AM
Yep Shockwaves BOB supports vector track ir and so will Olegs BOB.

It won't be near the quality of Olegs version but it should provide atleast $50 worth of entertainment until Oleg's version comes out.

BlakJakOfSpades
08-10-2005, 02:28 AM
Looks good, but i'm almost certain i couldn't stand it for more than a few test runs after IL-2. Honestly playing cfs3 i couldn't focus on the things it did better, only the things it didn't have that IL-2 did.

Daiichidoku
08-10-2005, 09:52 AM
hope Jiri will let HL support it

stubby
08-10-2005, 10:00 AM
i'm pretty pumped about this game. Can't wait to unleash my Tir3 Pro w/ 6DOF. I've read about the BOBII dynamic campaign system - looks awesome. Never played the original but man it will be a blast to fly across the Channel and try to beat RAF radar and the Observer Corps! I saw a screen shot of the ingame map for the British coast - awesome.

Atomic_Marten
08-10-2005, 10:05 AM
I don't really like it. The canopy wireframes are mostly too thin.

LEXX_Luthor
08-10-2005, 10:21 AM
stubby::
I've read about the BOBII dynamic campaign system - looks awesome. Never played the original but man it will be a blast to fly across the Channel and try to beat RAF radar and the Observer Corps! I saw a screen shot of the ingame map for the British coast - awesome.
It does look like we are getting a good campaign system.

There is one sink hole I heard about -- you can't fly as just a lowly "pilot" but have to Plan the campaign strategery and jump into the cockpit each mission. Or, you can Choose not to fly at all, and just play General. If the other side has AI strategery, so should the player side, allowing one to just play pilot (or gunner) following orders and doing his/her best and see what happens to the larger campaign.

crazyivan1970
08-10-2005, 10:38 AM
Fanboys stuff aside... i looked at those screenies and still can`t see why everyone is drooling over it. It looks sooo 2002. Beats me... Looks like a good game for offliners http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LEXX_Luthor
08-10-2005, 10:49 AM
crazyivan::
It looks sooo 2002.
Try StrikeFighters. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif That's where I am spending most of my time now. I guess I "downgraded" my simming Status when measured in terms of pop culture Fancy Grafix, but I found B-47s and Yak-25s, which is what I have been looking to find, so in a way I "upgraded."

J_Weaver
08-10-2005, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
... Looks like a good game for offliners http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Exactly! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Maybe for the first time in a long time us offliners will have an immersive campaign system. To me gameplay is more important that nifty graphics. But I'm definately gonna read a few reviews before I buy it.

ICDP
08-10-2005, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Fanboys stuff aside... i looked at those screenies and still can`t see why everyone is drooling over it. It looks sooo 2002. Beats me... Looks like a good game for offliners http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

It looks every bit as good as PF, which is also based on a 5 year old sim engine. The couds are far FAR FAR FAR superior looking to that worthless eye candy in PF and the AI cannot see through them.

Don't knock a game for using an "older" engine when your beloved PF does exactly the same thing. Look at the New Guinea, Singapore and Guadalcanal maps for some of the worst graphics in recent sim history. The devs really done their research on these maps http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Remember how piss poor awfull PF was when it was released (can you say 60% complete ROFL). The Pacific theater in the IL2 series is simply put "a joke". Ships (if the historical ones actually existed) don't use evasive manouevers, they just sail straight agead during attack. Half the planeset is missing, the maps are woefully inadequate for a Pacific theatre sim and the entire series dynamic campaign system is the WORST in sim history. The so called AI radio commands are totally useless as the AI totally ignore them 80% of the time and even the most basic of commands are missing.

You and other fanboys of this series constantly claim how historically detailed this sim is. In fact it still hasn't even got basic markings correct for most airforces and some of the most important AC types of the war have been totally ignored.

I enjoy PF (merged) but the overall sim is NOT the be all and end all of WWII air combat sims. It is simply the only one with decent overall quality available. I am confident that BoBII WoV will change that because the original sim had the best campaign in recent sim history.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but to continually berate BoBII WoV for using an updated graphics system when PF can be accused of EXACTLY THE SAME THING is biased in the extreme.

P.S. the fact that it "looks like a good game for offliners" will please 90-95% of buyers then wont it. How many sales did the entire IL2 series make? How many of them play online http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Chivas
08-10-2005, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
hope Jiri will let HL support it

There is no multiplayer at this time. It may be done in the future but I wouldn't hold my breath over it.

Chivas
08-10-2005, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Fanboys stuff aside... i looked at those screenies and still can`t see why everyone is drooling over it. It looks sooo 2002. Beats me... Looks like a good game for offliners http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I agree that the ground terrain was very poor in the original, and there have been very few screenshots of the ground terrain to see if its has been improved.

The aircraft, clouds, water, ground explosions, cockpits, and weather have definitly improved.


If the sound, FM, and DM have been improved this sim may be more than worth the $50 dollars for a little off-line play.

Hopefully they will have or improve a single pilot campaign.

Sharkey888
08-10-2005, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by ICDP:
You and other fanboys of this series constantly claim how historically detailed this sim is. In fact it still hasn't even got basic markings correct for most airforces and some of the most important AC types of the war have been totally ignored.


Wow someone with honesty!! While I really enjoy all of IL2, you can see the expertise that was used for the Eastern Front gets really watered down as the sim has moved West and to the Pacific Front!

I hope Oleg and Company do use "Western sources" for BOB and beyond and not all the old Soviet propaganda/misinformation sources for Western aircraft etc.

Some "Western" input might help in the immersion dept. also!

crazyivan1970
08-10-2005, 11:14 AM
ICDP, i said all fanboys stuff aside. And no, this BOB doesn`t look as good as PF, whether you like or not. Actually, depence on hardware. They could be easily equilized on average systems. I can provide you as many screenshots as you want that will be superior to what i saw on their site... and without photoshop http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

As far campaign system goes... it maybe good indeed... but as far as DM/FM and all other things...don`t hold your breath http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif How do i know it? I spoke to few beta testers... they all saying same thing... campaign - thumbs up...everything else... just average. Sorry for ruining your party http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

msalama
08-10-2005, 11:23 AM
but as far as DM/FM and all other things...don`t hold your breath

Yeah? Well, if that's true then I'll just pass on it. Aw rats http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

LEXX_Luthor
08-10-2005, 11:31 AM
mmm, crazyivan lemme Explain.

I am taking a good downgrade hit in going StrikeFighters, including in flight modeling, and just as Oleg's New FM came out too. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif However, as my interest is Cold War turns Hot strategic bombing/recce/interception, the StrikeFighters flight modeling only needs to give me reasonable...

Max Speed at various altitudes
Operational ceiling
Fuel consumption/combat radius
Climb rates
Accelerations

These FM characteristics are easy to adjust, not so the "dogfight" turning behavior and stalling, where StrikeFighters is weak and hideously complex for me to understand, and where I have no interest. But that's for tactical dogfighting. If Oleg would do a 1950-1970 jet sim, then...

For strategic bombing/interception, you need The Night, and Night environment modelling Grafix is one of Oleg's weakest Grafix spots and with some configuration is StrikeFighters crushingly superior strong spot even over The LOMACs!!

Basically, for my use of StrikeFighters, I only need the <span class="ev_code_yellow">flight model of a Submarine</span>. I did not fail to notice that the FB/PF dogfighter community enjoyed the Silent Hunter 3 long range missile armed strategic interception simulation. Most fun, I am making and populating my own Terrain of the Soviet far north.
http://www.boardy.de/images/smilies/ylflower.gif

Chivas
08-10-2005, 11:31 AM
That is bad news Ivan. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Atomic_Marten
08-10-2005, 11:32 AM
Guys don't be so pesimistic. Now just how many times we got an opportunity to play good ww2 airwar tactic/sim game?(accent on tactic http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif)

LEXX_Luthor
08-10-2005, 11:51 AM
Does anybody here know if Rowan's original BoB included any night ops, and was the night modelled? I mean, did anybody ever see a night sky? BoB could be extended to a 1942-1945 bombing of Germany campaign -- one where you can play Luftwaffe too just like in 1940 BoB, and hopefully with night operations -- but maybe day only. I am thinking that BoB will have no night modelled.

** never mind, I forgot they have a B-17 sim too. Now, they need a Lancaster/Mossie sim.

LEXX_Luthor
08-10-2005, 12:08 PM
Since we are on The Topic, here is an amazing read about WW2 German air defences, mostly AA and searchlights how they cooperated with fighters including Wild Sau (or refused to cooperate, at times). Its one of those PDF files, and a very long one. It took several days to read it through, but its worth it. After the beginning, it starts with WW1 with some fascinating stuff I never knew about. I skipped some of the inter-war theoretical stuff. That was kinda slow, but then it heats up fast in the late 1930s. Ground based search and gun laying radars too. Don't settle waiting for a Patch, read this now.

~ http://www.blackvault.com/documents/ADA380153.pdf


I forgot the simmer who posted this link here a week or two ago, but again Thanks~

ICDP
08-10-2005, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
ICDP, i said all fanboys stuff aside. And no, this BOB doesn`t look as good as PF, whether you like or not. Actually, depence on hardware. They could be easily equilized on average systems. I can provide you as many screenshots as you want that will be superior to what i saw on their site... and without photoshop http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

As far campaign system goes... it maybe good indeed... but as far as DM/FM and all other things...don`t hold your breath http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif How do i know it? I spoke to few beta testers... they all saying same thing... campaign - thumbs up...everything else... just average. Sorry for ruining your party http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Those shots aren't photoshoped, if you can find a shot from PF with realistic looking cloud layers and formations then show it to us. I still fly BoB on occasion and if the new FM and DM are even remotely improved they will be good enough. Go and try a slat equiped single engined fighter in PF for a laugh at a poor FM.

If the DM on BoBII is not as good as in PF then it must be totally worthless since the DM in PF leaves a lot to be desired... Fw190 & P47 cough cough! Also if it is the same beta testers that tested PF then maybe they should have held the release back, we all know how the wrong the testers for PF got it!!!

PF (only after patching) is a great sim for onliners and the FM and DM while good needs a lot of tweaking. For offline flyers it is barely adequate even after installing many of the third party campaign addons/updates.

blazer-glory
08-10-2005, 12:25 PM
Well I'll be buying both. My pants are moistening just looking at those screenies!!! Hell,Im still trying to get hold of a copy of Jane's WWII fighters!!

Capt_Haddock
08-10-2005, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
ICDP, i said all fanboys stuff aside. And no, this BOB doesn`t look as good as PF, whether you like or not. Actually, depence on hardware. They could be easily equilized on average systems. I can provide you as many screenshots as you want that will be superior to what i saw on their site... and without photoshop http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

As far campaign system goes... it maybe good indeed... but as far as DM/FM and all other things...don`t hold your breath http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif How do i know it? I spoke to few beta testers... they all saying same thing... campaign - thumbs up...everything else... just average. Sorry for ruining your party http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

There's no need for all this "my sim is better than yours"...

You know what? If anyone has the slightest interest in WWII flight sims they should buy any decent sim coming out to support the genre and show the publishers that there's still money to be made in this business.

It€s just 50 euros! Absolutely nothing! And if anything the competition will only help Oleg making a better BoB. We all win by buying Shockwave's game.

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh3.jpg

KGr.HH-Sunburst
08-10-2005, 01:30 PM
i dont see anything wrong with the graphics, the ground detail looks just as good or better then PF's.
common are some of you saying that FB's layered invisible forests are looking good eh? the water looks just as good.
the clouds are looking better then PF's new clouds
and the color variation and light effects are way better IMO
anyway i dont care for fancy shaders and stuff

the pits are on average better then FB/PF's with a few exceptions like the gladiator bf110 etc
and if this sim has a good campaign and better AI as FB/PF's (which is what most players will look for) and we all agree that FB/PF's offline campaing isnt stunning right?
then this BoBII could be a winner if the FM/DM is just half as good im more then happy to buy it and entertain myself till Olegs BoB comes out...whenever that is

ICDP
08-10-2005, 01:37 PM
Well said Haddock and Sunburst. The way some posters are behaving over this new sim is perplexing. The "my sim is better than yours" brigade need to grow up, especially since the new sim hasn't even been released yet.

The FM's, DMs and AI were very good to outstanding on the first BoB. The atmosphereic campaign is WAY beyond antything the entire IL2 series can do. They have been imrpoved quite a bit by the DBG mod/updates and this new version looks improved again. It can only be good for us that Shockwave are even supporting our dying genre.

Popey109
08-10-2005, 01:42 PM
Rowans BOB was great...I paid $14.95 for it a couple years ago, added the BDG patch\update and was good to go!...so why would I spend $40.00 US on what is the same game? for what? 6dof...I will wait for Olegs BOB http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Atomic_Marten
08-10-2005, 01:47 PM
I will buy Rowan's BoB_2. Be sure. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif In spite that I have some doubts with that sim of my own... will see if I'm right or wrong.


Capt_Haddock wrote:
If anyone has the slightest interest in WWII flight sims they should buy any decent sim coming out to support the genre and show the publishers that there's still money to be made in this business.

It€s just 50 euros! Absolutely nothing! And if anything the competition will only help Oleg making a better BoB. We all win by buying Shockwave's game.

No one here can say a word against this good points.

ICDP
08-10-2005, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by Popey109:
Rowans BOB was great...I paid $14.95 for it a couple years ago, added the BDG patch\update and was good to go!...so why would I spend $40.00 US on what is the same game? for what? 6dof...I will wait for Olegs BOB http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Updated FM's AI behaviour and graphics are a few of the reasons.

Popey109
08-10-2005, 01:57 PM
I'd of paid $14.95 for the BDG update to bring my copy to BOBII standards. but to ask me for $40.00 more for what I already have is a bit much...I do hope Oleg takes note of some of the better features of BOBII like the campaign http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

nealn
08-10-2005, 01:57 PM
Well saidd Capt_Haddock,

I agree completely withh you, sunburst and ICDP. As I have said before, I spend most of my time playing AEP-PF offline and love it. But any new WW2 aviation sim can only help the community. I will likely buy BOB2, and if it motivates Oleg to do an even better job on his BOB then great! I will buy that too!

Neal

Retrofish
08-10-2005, 02:16 PM
I will get BoBII simply because it is possible to slide back the canopy of the Hurricane.

http://www.shockwaveproductions.com/bob/screenshots/403.jpg

...and because I like both apples and oranges. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Chivas
08-10-2005, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by KGr.HH-Sunburst:
i dont see anything wrong with the graphics, the ground detail looks just as good or better then PF's.
common are some of you saying that FB's layered invisible forests are looking good eh? the water looks just as good.
the clouds are looking better then PF's new clouds
and the color variation and light effects are way better IMO
anyway i dont care for fancy shaders and stuff

the pits are on average better then FB/PF's with a few exceptions like the gladiator bf110 etc
and if this sim has a good campaign and better AI as FB/PF's (which is what most players will look for) and we all agree that FB/PF's offline campaing isnt stunning right?
then this BoBII could be a winner if the FM/DM is just half as good im more then happy to buy it and entertain myself till Olegs BoB comes out...whenever that is

The original cities and forests were brutal blocks in Rowans BOB. There have been no screenshots so far that has shown whether or not it has changed. I hear that the block forests were rounded somewhat to improve them and haven't heard anything about towns and cities yet.

To say these block forest and towns are on par with Oleg's is nonsense. Hopefully we will see some screenshots in the near future showing shockwaves BOB new forests and towns, but I'm not expecting to much. Olegs forest look great except when flying below tree top level. I'm sure he will improve on this in his next sim.

The water has improved greatly but I doubt it will rival Oleg's version, especially with water=3.

The clouds, aircraft, and cockpits look great. We will have to wait and see how they look and feel when its released.

crazyivan1970
08-10-2005, 03:27 PM
Nowhere in this thread i suggested not to buy it. All i said that i don`t see tramendoes graphics and i got "You fanboys" out of it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Buy it, enjoy it. No MP...no $$ from me, that`s all. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I`ll post screenies later, no worries ICDP.

HelSqnProtos
08-10-2005, 03:49 PM
Well its great to have competition, but as CrazyIvan stated, this game MAY have a great campaign system, but in all other important areas it falls far short of FB+AEP+PF. The fact that there is no multiplayer further disqualifies shockwaves product from the big leagues. Olegs B.O.B will undoubtedly wipe the floor with this version. However, I am sure that there is room for both to survive.

For me, my money is on C.I and Oleg for as long as they turn out product.

ICDP
08-10-2005, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
Well its great to have competition, but as CrazyIvan stated, this game MAY have a great campaign system, but in all other important areas it falls far short of FB+AEP+PF. The fact that there is no multiplayer further disqualifies shockwaves product from the big leagues. Olegs B.O.B will undoubtedly wipe the floor with this version. However, I am sure that there is room for both to survive.

For me, my money is on C.I and Oleg for as long as they turn out product.

You are really showing your ignorance here, if you believe that multiplayer is what defines a big league sim developer you are very sadly mistaken. FS2004 is currently the most popular sim available, it sells far more than the IL2 series could ever hope to. The multiplayer in FS2004 is a simple afterthought but it doesn't detract from its popularity in the slightest.

Other game genres can easily make a profit by producing games aimed mainly at multiplayer, sims do not fall into this category. Flightsims already have a very VERY small niche market, and the online only crowd are a VERY small minority of a small minority.

Luckily for us offliners ALL mainstream developers of flightsims, 1C Maddox games included DO NOT only cater for you and Crazy Ivans ideals. If Maddox or any other mainstream flightsim developer catered to suit the online minority they would make A MASSIVE LOSS FINANCIALY.

Any flightsim developer would accept the lost sales from onliners compared to the total dissinterest from the majority of potential buyers. Oleg himself stated that the number of people who play the IL2 series online is only around 5% (and that is very being generous). On any given night around 4-600 people are playing PF on Hyperlobby, combine that with other online clients it would amount to no more than 800 at best. It doesn't take a genius to work out that given the small potential sales of for an online only sim it is a wise choice to concentrate on offline as a priority.

Franky if the 1C games BoB has a campaign system that hasn't DRAMATICALY improved over the current TOTAL FLOP they will be alienating the VAST majority of their customers. We already have to endure one of the most worthless poorly implemented dynamic campaigns and AI radio comms ever included in any sim. I dare anyone to try to claim the current offline dynamic campagins are even remotely comparible to the best out there. For one of the most total and massive theatres of war ever the Eastorn front according to this sim is very barren.

The fact is that a good offline experience is a must for any flightsim. The amount of sales lost due to NOT including offline gameplay as a priority is hard to ignore.

HelSqnProtos
08-10-2005, 06:25 PM
S~!

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaa the offliners crying again on an online forum. You can try to bash the multiplayer scene all you like, but IT is what drives the innovation. Anyway I am not really too interested in an offliners opinion on the matter.

As for FB+AEP+PF's campaign system, well I don't even have to respond. I just need to point out -- correctly might I add that, this is by far the most realistic, immersive and difficult WWII sim available. Nothing else comes close to the level of realism that we currently enjoy. I mean I don't know of anyone in the flight sim community who would disagree with that. You want offline campaigns?? Make your own, plenty of people have. Many are available for sale. Maybe if your really nice to CrazyIvan he may even give you some links??? lol

Fact of the matter is, that the dev team has limited resources. What they accomplish is truly amazing. Jeez just think about it. The guys are in Russia for Christ's sake. Would I like more, sure, who wouldn't. But I learned very early on in life that you "have to dance with the one who brought you" As for me and C.I being fanboys. I don't know of anyone who could call ME a fanboy, lord knows I biotchh enough when I see things wrong, but your really being unfair to CrazyIvan. Thats just bullchips. He has done more for the flight sim community then you or I or 100 others will ever do. If it wasn't for him you wouldn't have half the things we now have.

So show some respect.

And before you jump all up and down, with foam at the mouth, yes we are buds. There is an ancient Greek saying, many many thousands of years old. "Dikse mou ton filo sou na sou po pios eisai" Loosely translated it goes like this. "Show me your friend and I will show you, who YOU are" I am quite happy to be judged by that saying, cause CrazyIvan and his posse are all class.

As a parting comment I will leave you with something I got from one of the russian forums. IF TRUE. It appears that Oleg in his never ceasing wisdom, shall be seperating the offline and online communities. According to my translation program, there will be two versions of the game. One for offliners and one for onliners. All I can say is hail Oleg the Mighty! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif Long may you reign!!

Just the thought of not having to listen to the constant whine from the offliners about campaigns ect...is enough to make me weep for joy. Trying to compare Rowans B.O.B to 1C's version of B.O.B is like going from a biplane to a jet. Or havent' you seen some of the screenshots yet??? pffft

LEXX_Luthor
08-10-2005, 06:52 PM
Be careful, Online War (not Dogfight) is a form of Dynamic Campaign, and could make use of AI pilots to fill out the ranks. We are not so different after all. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Lets back up a little...

13th Hsqn Protos ::
As for teamkilling, I readily admit to doing it. The first was to an AFJ player and I forget who the other was. Each time they tried to steal a squadmates clear kill. I let them know that was not nice D)

Spit v 109 server..how cool is it
~> http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_top...=127;t=002049#000000 (http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=127;t=002049#000000 )

"Teamkilling" is a great example of how Online gamer behavior is the weak point of Online dogfight fps shooters -- even those with the most "realistic" FM and Fancy Grafix. This is why Multiplay will always be confined to a small Niche market, unless, maybe, as Oleg posted at sukhoi.ru, he may eventually be going Pay-to-Play for his BoB Online War, which may (or may not) solve some of the gamer behavioral problems that are crippling multiplay.

J_Weaver
08-10-2005, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
Just the thought of not having to listen to the constant whine from the offliners about campaigns ect...is enough to make me weep for joy. Trying to compare Rowans B.O.B to 1C's version of B.O.B is like going from a biplane to a jet. Or havent' you seen some of the screenshots yet??? pffft

Dude, what are you smoking? Oh, I'm sorry,I forgot, the onliners don't whine. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Its obvious, that the offline majority has been forgotten in the IL2 series. PF turned out to be an utter joke, and nearly useless to the casual offline player. I'd like to know how many casual gamers and history buffs with an interest in the PTO bought PF and said WTF is this?

No arguement though that Oleg's BoB will likely blow Rowan's BoB out of the water. But what do you expect? Rowan's BoB is due to be out in less than a month an Oleg's BoB is a couple of years down the road.

LEXX_Luthor
08-10-2005, 07:24 PM
Its obvious, that the offline majority has been forgotten in the IL2 series.
3rd Party campaign maker Lowengren has not forgotten us. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The "casual" Offline simmers will eventually look for something beyond the campaign that comes in the Box. Oleg's system has allowed the development of 3rd Party campaign modding, and this has played some role in Saving the FB/PF. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Such 3rd Party campaign development may not be possible in some other Offline sims -- I dunno, it seems to work well for StrikeFighters, not sure about Shockwave even if we get 3rd Party aircraft mods useful in other theaters.

HelSqnProtos
08-10-2005, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Be careful, Online War (not Dogfight) is a form of Dynamic Campaign, and could make use of AI pilots to fill out the ranks. We are not so different after all. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

There is a world of difference between 1 live pilot and a minimum of 8-10. To say otherwize is to decieve the reader.



"Teamkilling" is a great example of how Online gamer behavior is the weak point of Online dogfight fps shooters -- even those with the most "realistic" FM and Fancy Grafix. This is why Multiplay will always be confined to a small Niche market, unless, maybe, as Oleg posted at sukhoi.ru, he may eventually be going Pay-to-Play for his BoB Online War, which may (or may not) solve some of the gamer behavioral problems that are crippling multiplay.

It never ceases to amaze me how pathetic you are. I mean you take a post from I don't know how many months ago from another forum and totally out of context and present it as what? evidence?

YOU don't play online as I recall, so please for the love of god stfu. Your in no position to assess online play at all. Its people like you killing this community, its also the reason oleg doensn't post here anymore. BE SURE.

I mean do you have nothing better to do. What do you have like an 9000 post count?? Get a life kid. Guys like Ivan, and Hungter, Steve V and many others, have been here for years and don't have those kind of counts.

As for what Oleg will or won't do, the sooner he seperates me from the likes of you the better. My lord, the offliners are telling the onliners whats wrong with their game. lovely http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Regarding an online war by Oleg thats pay to play. I will tell you and all the other readers this. Personally I will not piss and moan about it. I will make my voice known through direct email. If he wants to go ahead anyway, I will do what you all SHOULD do. Since your so unhappy that is. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

I just won't play, its that simple, don't like what you have, find something better, or make it better or anything you like. Just don't sit in the forum and whine about it for 9000 posts.

There are those that bark and those that bite, you and your ilk are all bark. Don't like the campaign? Make a new one and give it as a gift to the community. Put up or shut up.

LEXX_Luthor
08-10-2005, 07:30 PM
HelSqnProtos::

What do you have like an 9000 post count??

One reason is I have made many posts helping Newbies here. I have never seen you make a post -- start a thread -- without demanding from Oleg something for your internet dogfighter Squad. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Try it. Post help for the Newbies, and you too can get 9000 post counts.

Atomic_Marten
08-10-2005, 07:42 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VW-IceFire
08-10-2005, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
HelSqnProtos:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
What do you have like an 9000 post count??

One reason is I have made many posts helping Newbies here. I have never seen you make a post -- start a thread -- without demanding from Oleg something for your internet dogfighter Squad. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Try it. Post help for the Newbies, and you too can get 9000 post counts. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Your post to kill ratio must be impressive too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

We need to make sure there are people like you (or sometimes me) in that we help new people into the game and into the genre. They need our help and we need to make sure we give it to them in the best and nicest way possible.

I still want to write a guide to everything that I think is relevant about the series.

J_Weaver
08-10-2005, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
There are those that bark and those that bite, you and your ilk are all bark. Don't like the campaign? Make a new one and give it as a gift to the community. Put up or shut up.

Since when is a devloper supposed to deliver a half finshed product? When you buy a car you expectto be able to drive it off the lot, not have to go home and put it together.

Online and offline play are too very differnt worlds. However, I don't think that one is more or less important than the other. There is no need to be nasty just because some people prefer a different type of game play.

HelSqnProtos
08-10-2005, 09:16 PM
Nothing nasty about calling a spade a spade. Fact is I don't see many onliners in here telling the offliners how to play, whats wrong with offline, ect..... But lord only knows the offliners are only too happy to tell us our business.

I am perfectly happy to stay on my side of the pond, provided the offliners stay on theirs. Its when they get into the multiplay and how THEY think it should be that you will see reprisals. Again I would add that talk is cheap. I think players and pilots should do.

This forum is one of the worst places to do. I wouldn't have even posted in this thread except my bro C.I got called a fanboy and a bunch of other ****.

C.I has really done a GREAT DEAL for this community. Its just that it is not well known. C.I rock -- Be sure.

HelSqnProtos
08-10-2005, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
HelSqnProtos:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
What do you have like an 9000 post count??

One reason is I have made many posts helping Newbies here. I have never seen you make a post -- start a thread -- without demanding from Oleg something for your internet dogfighter Squad. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Try it. Post help for the Newbies, and you too can get 9000 post counts. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Riiiiiiiight. Thats what it is, your the what is it again 17 year old paragon of virtue that leads all the others into PF nirvana? Get over yourself kid. You post on anything anwhere anytime, just cause you like to see your own text.

Its for that reason alone I call you pathetic. Get on with life. 9000 posts anywhere at your age is ******ed. Go grab a girl's @ss or something.

Old_Canuck
08-10-2005, 09:22 PM
....the offliners crying again on an online forum. ....

This forum is for onliners only? Could someone please tell us (of the silent majority) where to find the offliner forum so we don't keep posting in the wrong place?

LEXX_Luthor
08-10-2005, 09:29 PM
When Online shooter gamers cripple the simulation of air combat, we tell it like it is. We may continue our discussion of Teamkill and computer gamer behavior, although this should be in a thread of its own.

13th Hsqn Protos ::
As for teamkilling, I readily admit to doing it. The first was to an AFJ player and I forget who the other was. Each time they tried to steal a squadmates clear kill. I let them know that was not nice D)

Spit v 109 server..how cool is it
~> http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_top...=127;t=002049#000000 (http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=127;t=002049#000000 )

Old_Canuck
08-10-2005, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by Chivas:
Some nice screenies

http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=11738#11738

Those ARE nice screenies by the way. For the price of these "niche market" sims, I don't see anything wrong with supporting a decent effort of this nature. Nonetheless, I'll be waiting to read the inevitable reports from those I've learned to trust in this forum over the years before I get my wallet out ;-)

LEXX_Luthor
08-10-2005, 09:44 PM
The Grafix look fine. More interesting is the programming behind the Grafix. They seemed to have have radically ramped up the long distance rendering of air combat battle effects (smoke, fires, stuff) -- Shockwave may be studying our endless Whinnage here. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Not to worry, by 2006/2007 Oleg's BoB will probably stomp anything else out there, especially with the new features in Mission Editor and Polish/France addon pacs. Jet Thunder is looking great too, with an All New and original planeset to match. Since Oleg forced Microsoft Corporation out of the combat flight sim market, we will see the Re-Birth of the combat flight sim genre.

J_Weaver
08-10-2005, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
Nothing nasty about calling a spade a spade. Fact is I don't see many onliners in here telling the offliners how to play, whats wrong with offline, ect..... But lord only knows the offliners are only too happy to tell us our business.



I agree, everyone should keep to what they know. I don't know much so I usually just keep quiet. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Anyway, if anyone decideds not to buy Rowan's BoB because of the lack of multi-play then thats their choice. However, I plan to get it ( After reading a few reviews) because it looks like its gonna be a lot of fun for us offliners. Even if the DM's and FM's aren't the best. If nothing else it will tide me over until Oleg's BoB.

HelSqnProtos
08-10-2005, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
When Online shooter gamers cripple the simulation of air combat, we tell it like it is. We may continue our discussion of Teamkill and computer gamer behavior, although this should be in a thread of its own.

You must smoke a lot of crack kid http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Now you the offliner is gonna tell the competitive onliners how to play. Love that. 17 going on 40. Get over yourself punk and like I said, get out and try girls.

And who is "we" you always refer to yourself in the plural 3rd person. Got news for you little boy, your nobody. Don't step in the online pond, cause its mean over here. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Well I had enough of little boys in their diapers, going to fly. I leave the fate of the "simulation" to the 9000+ posters. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

LeadSpitter_
08-10-2005, 10:42 PM
I suggest you people buy it yourselfs im sure it will be worth a couple bucks, most of us here been playing these flight sims for so long and we should always support the new ones if you enjoy them. The more wwii flight sims the better I think so dont listen to moderators, they are pure oleg fanboys and think he is there real friend cause a couple emails http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So support other companies making wwii flightsims so they continue to be made, and force competition of developers on historical accuracy.

LEXX_Luthor
08-10-2005, 10:45 PM
Excellent creative post Protos. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

We have a Deal!

msalama
08-10-2005, 11:43 PM
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaa the offliners crying again on an online forum.

"Online forum" sez who? Also, when it comes to whining it's the onliners who usually do it...

Old_Canuck
08-11-2005, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
When Online shooter gamers cripple the simulation of air combat, we tell it like it is. We may continue our discussion of Teamkill and computer gamer behavior, although this should be in a thread of its own.

You must smoke a lot of crack kid http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Now you the offliner is gonna tell the competitive onliners how to play. Love that. 17 going on 40. Get over yourself punk and like I said, get out and try girls.

And who is "we" you always refer to yourself in the plural 3rd person. Got news for you little boy, your nobody. Don't step in the online pond, cause its mean over here. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Well I had enough of little boys in their diapers, going to fly. I leave the fate of the "simulation" to the 9000+ posters. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've met a lot of nice people online ... and you're not one of them.

stubby
08-11-2005, 06:11 AM
Originally posted by J_Weaver:
No arguement though that Oleg's BoB will likely blow Rowan's BoB out of the water. But what do you expect? Rowan's BoB is due to be out in less than a month an Oleg's BoB is a couple of years down the road.

Depends. Il2 though great from a clinical, institutional stand point, has zero soul, no character and very little immersion. Sound in Il2 is terrible and that is one key element that can kill the immersion factor. BOBII is supposed to have excellent sound. Anyway, Il2 lacks all those intangible things that made EAW or Red Baron truly great. I've never played Rowan's BOB but I've heard nothing but good things about the original in terms of having those elements that breath life into a flight sim.

It will serve 1c well to take note on games like BOBII, EAW, Red Baron and even Falcon 4 AF in terms of what breaths like and immersion into game. Pretty graphics, believable FMs/DMs are crucial and essential to the core goodness of a game but to take it to the next level, all the bells and whistles that make a person actually believe he's part of an epic conflict can not be ignored or you'll just be left with a half empty game. If not for DCG or other 3rd party systems, Il2 would have long been erased from my hd. 3rd party stuff (DCG and BadC) really saved Il2's ***. A good game shouldn't require other people to do the work that should have been done by the developer from the get go.

stubby
08-11-2005, 06:15 AM
Originally posted by msalama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Waaaaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaa the offliners crying again on an online forum.

"Online forum" sez who? Also, when it comes to whining it's the onliners who usually do it... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

msalama - spot on brotha. all the cryin' comes from various onliners that have their butts handed to them in a HL df server and then come here to piss and moan about how their favorite plane has been porked and how their rival planes have been uberized due to Russian bias http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The reality is that the ones that cry and get their panties in a bunch over stupid **** like rivets and undermodeled cannons make up .005 % of the overall community.

SeaFireLIV
08-11-2005, 06:19 AM
Looks pretty good to me, and I`m an ardent offline fan. The graphics look like they`ll do the job - that`s all I need. For me it`s gameplay. I`m also not that hung up on FMs (although after playing FB for so long I might think differently after trying BOBII).

I will check it out.

Atomic_Marten
08-11-2005, 06:19 AM
Holy cow...

These forums are for both offliners and onliners. There are no difference between the value of these two groups.

Destroyer110
08-11-2005, 06:46 AM
.. another BOB sim .. that will probably fall by the way side, unlike IL2 ,which is a classic.

I'll buy all WWII air sims (because I'm a rich oil sh1te who can afford 'em) but I only follow classic games.

Rowans original was great for along while but had too many bugs. This looks alot better but no different than other BOB sims. Same old plyable planes ... nothing new except better graphics ... yawn!

Where's the flyable defiant? or battle? or hampden? etc etc etc ... and where are the WOT-IFS, like cannon armed defiant fighter? or cannon armed HE-111's? or Whirlwind with workable engines? or Amercian P-40s? Or Heinkel fighter instead of 109? or 109 with long range tanks .. (I've mentioned this list before)

Fancy graphics won't wet my pants.

Deedsundone
08-11-2005, 07:40 AM
Pss,Shockwave...Red Baron 3D http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Those screenshots look nice,but not jawdropping though.I will probably buy it.
Reading a book about fighterpilots in BOB so you get that little itch to fly that scenario.
BTW,isn´t the sight on the Ju 87 a bit small?
Maybe it´s the same in PF,was a long time a since I flew one.

Sharkey888
08-11-2005, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
S~!

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaa the offliners crying again on an online forum.


Since when has this been an "online forum"?!

Sharkey888
08-11-2005, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by Destroyer110:

Where's the flyable defiant? or battle? or hampden? etc etc etc


And Devastator and Avenger and Kate.....oops, wrong game!!

LEXX_Luthor
08-11-2005, 04:55 PM
Offliners::
Since when has this been an "online forum"?!
Pwotos is just yanking your chain, in quite creative yet traditional computer gamer webboard posting behavior, although much cleaned up (previous bans, etc...), so Enjoy it. Protos reminds me of cwojackson -- remember him? -- who was a strict Offliner who used much the same posting behavior but insulted Online players here. As soon as we began to talk *about* cwo among ourselves, instead of us trying to engage him in discussion, he vanished back to Shockwave webboard.

Was thinking:: Yes, you do tell Online gamers how to play -- server boots, server bans, etc... If you don't, or can't, control gamer behavior, less people join.

SeaFireLIV
08-11-2005, 06:32 PM
I`m sure HelSqnProtos has been smartly and effectively put in his place. I guess it never dawned on him that there are people who can play both off and online quite intensively, thereby becoming overall wiser than those who do just one type.

cwojackson
08-11-2005, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Offliners:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Since when has this been an "online forum"?!
Protos reminds me of cwojackson -- remember him? -- who was a strict Offliner who used much the same posting behavior but insulted Online players here. As soon as we began to talk *about* cwo among ourselves, instead of us trying to engage him in discussion, he vanished back to Shockwave webboard.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! Selective memory I see. Fitting for this place.

LEXX_Luthor
08-11-2005, 08:54 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Wellcome back to Forgotten Board

dog-of-war
08-12-2005, 02:43 PM
will there be a campaign editor does anyone know

Atomic_Marten
08-12-2005, 03:39 PM
I think yes... in one or the other way. Maybe soemone knows exactly...

Chivas
08-12-2005, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by dog-of-war:
will there be a campaign editor does anyone know

There is no mission editor.

LEXX_Luthor
08-12-2005, 06:54 PM
They hope to make a Misson Editor later. I hope so too.

StrikeFighters had no Mission Editor, but it got a 3rd Party Mission Editor (thanks kreelin http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif ) -- this could be a possibility for Shockwave BoB.