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jugent
07-29-2005, 01:42 AM
There are only a few complains about over-modelled axis aircrafts.
I have never seen examples like "The zero€s damage-model is to hard"
"The FW 190:s guns are to accurate"
There are a lot of posts about the opposite.
Are the axis pilot a bunch of whiners and the allied pilots keep their "stiff upper lip"?

AnaK774
07-29-2005, 02:04 AM
Maybe they haven't been on underdog side until now?

Pirschjaeger
07-29-2005, 02:21 AM
First time fishing?

Study x_crash_x, he's the real expert in here. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Fritz

triggerhappyfin
07-29-2005, 08:18 AM
Basicly its the statement of Oleg about historic accuracy thats causing it all.

Add the fact ppl read it with their minds set already and w different expectations..voila the soup is ready http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

JG7_Rall
07-29-2005, 08:23 AM
I've always seen a lot more allied complains on these boards, even though right now they're pretty much equal between the 38 and 109 whinning. However, it's always the allies who talk about how much the "luftwhiners" whine http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif go figure


Btw, the 51 and 38 at Oshkosh really deepened my love for these planes -- and also made me think that a lot of things are off in this game. But I wont talk, because after all, it's 60-some years later and I was only a spectator on the ground

Stigler_9_JG52
07-29-2005, 10:21 AM
Players who complain from a position of "balance" are all wet and should be ignored.

The ONLY question is, "Is it accurate? Is it correct?"

It's up to scenario design and server planesets to do the "game balance". There was no fairness in aircraft design. Certain planes outperform others and should enjoy those advantages during play.

carguy_
07-29-2005, 10:31 AM
Allied fanatics forget that LW was outnumbered 5:1 in most engagements and 14:1 overall.

German pilot flew till he die or ran out of fuel whereas allied pilots went on vacation.

LStarosta
07-29-2005, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by carguy_:
Allied fanatics forget that LW was outnumbered 5:1 in most engagements and 14:1 overall.

German pilot flew till he die or ran out of fuel whereas allied pilots went on vacation.

Considering the health benefits Hitler gave to concentration camp... guests, what do you expect he gave to the Luftwaffe?

Cajun76
07-29-2005, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by carguy_:
Allied fanatics forget that LW was outnumbered 5:1 in most engagements and 14:1 overall.

German pilot flew till he die or ran out of fuel whereas allied pilots went on vacation.


Gotta save that gem! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Taylortony
07-29-2005, 12:45 PM
Yup...jugent,dont read to much into it,

The forum is full of Instant whiners, just add water and stir....................

arcadeace
07-29-2005, 12:45 PM
I never participate in threads discussing sim a/c accuracy. For some reason most people aren't really talking about planes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Pirschjaeger
07-29-2005, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by LStarosta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by carguy_:
Allied fanatics forget that LW was outnumbered 5:1 in most engagements and 14:1 overall.

German pilot flew till he die or ran out of fuel whereas allied pilots went on vacation.

Considering the health benefits Hitler gave to concentration camp... guests, what do you expect he gave to the Luftwaffe? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do or die, or in many cases, do or you and your family dies.

Fritz

Pirschjaeger
07-29-2005, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by Arcadeace:
I never participate in threads discussing sim a/c accuracy. For some reason most people aren't really talking about planes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

This is exactly what I noticed. They use a certain FM to start it but before it can go anywhere objectively, it turns into name-calling and prejudices. I think there's more whining about the other whiner than about the sim or the FM's.

Does this mean IL-2 has run it's course? Have we really run out of things to discuss? I think we need a major change, such as BoB. Remember before the releases of FB, AEP, and PF? We had regular updates and therefor something to talk about. No there are no updates about BoB and people seem to be splitting hairs and trying to find mistakes.

I thought about this a lot lately and started posting pictures and ads. I have a few more ideas after these threads have finished but "something new" is hard to find.

It would be nice if others took the time and made the effort as well. We all have our treasure troves of information and photos. The constant whining and fishing leads to no where good.

Fritz

arcadeace
07-29-2005, 09:41 PM
You€re right Fritz. Actually, I believe in Godwin and just hope to make a sweet time of it when everyone is reduced to Hitler http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Atomic_Marten
07-29-2005, 09:51 PM
You nice?

http://free-vk.t-com.hr/domagoj/smileys/afro.gif

Pirschjaeger
07-29-2005, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by Arcadeace:
You€re right Fritz. Actually, I believe in Godwin and just hope to make a sweet time of it when everyone is reduced to Hitler http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

You know, since I started posting my quote, no one has called me a "Nazi". Must be a bit of teeth grinding going on though. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Fritz

Atomic_Marten
07-29-2005, 10:02 PM
No one ever called me a nazi in over a year (and 2,5k of posts) here on UBI forums.

Maybe I am doing something wrong then..? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

arcadeace
07-29-2005, 10:06 PM
Yeah but you know Fritz, why would anyone call you a Nazi? You're a Pinko http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Pirschjaeger
07-29-2005, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by Arcadeace:
Yeah but you know Fritz, why would anyone call you a Nazi? You're a Pinko http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

I predict "Godwin's Law II"

Fritz

arcadeace
07-29-2005, 10:12 PM
LoL...

Atomic_Marten
07-29-2005, 10:22 PM
http://free-vk.t-com.hr/domagoj/smileys/hitler.gif

BSS_CUDA
07-29-2005, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by carguy_:
Allied fanatics forget that LW was outnumbered 5:1 in most engagements and 14:1 overall.

German pilot flew till he die or ran out of fuel whereas allied pilots went on vacation.

hrm some selective memory there huh, uhm those numbers may be correct but only from very late 44 or early 45, I'd need to verify, up until that time the LW enjoyed numerical superiority over the continent. and usually easily outnumbered allied aircraft 10 or more to 1

jugent
07-30-2005, 03:13 AM
Well stiegler you say

Players who complain from a position of "balance" are all wet and should be ignored.

The ONLY question is, "Is it accurate? Is it correct?"

There are many questions that will loose its meaning if answered yes or no.

NorrisMcWhirter
07-30-2005, 03:40 AM
As paraphrased in another thread but with no diplomatic spin this time:

Oleg stated in the past that 'American whiners whine the most'

And that's including what he sees in his inbox never mind what appears on the forum.

Possibilities?
a. They simply like whining.
b. They've a lot to whine about.
c. a and b.
d. none of the above.

Ta,
Norris

LeadSpitter_
07-30-2005, 10:05 AM
Just take a look at the replies in here and what they fly 13 axis replies 3 allied. Every patch the majority will fly the easiest plane to do well in.

FB 1.0 i153, hurricane, 109g2 109k4, lagg3
1.2 Yak3 LA7 lagg3 109g2 lagg3 p39
2.01-2.04 zeke spit k84 i185 lagg3 p40 109g2 b239.
3.0 p-51 corsair spit ki84 190A lagg3 ki43 109g2
3.04 spitfire 190a lagg3 109k4
4.01 p38 190A-D 109F thru k

and next patch will be different, the thing is we all admit which planes are pure ufos in a patch, this patch blues refuse to but whined to death about the others, same with this patch all whines for just the p-38 late thats it, hopefully oleg notices.

Put it this way can you name one plane in this game that matches their data charts in the basics of flight?

SL 1000-3000-6000-10000m level flight speeds with IAS/TAS chart? Or compressibility, combat turn, accelaration, full combat load takeoff lenght, dive accelaration, climb, roll, breakup speed etc, stall characteristics and stall speed. mixture setting, rpms and manifold pressure, correct power and proppitch for best performance.

This is a fun game and without a doubt the best currently out and all but theres always something majorly botched up if its not climb, combat turns, trim weapons effectiveness, damage models, anti gravity planes. Has been since the original il2 sturmovik and thats what 4.01 seems exactly like to me.

fordfan25
07-30-2005, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by carguy_:
Allied fanatics forget that LW was outnumbered 5:1 in most engagements and 14:1 overall.

German pilot flew till he die or ran out of fuel whereas allied pilots went on vacation.

yea. that aoutomaticly means german fighters were far better http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

LeadSpitter_
07-30-2005, 10:48 AM
Was the h75 and b239 superior to the russian aircraft in finland? More experienced pilots is why they did so well in extremely outdated ac, not better performing ac.

LStarosta
07-30-2005, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by BSS_CUDA:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by carguy_:
Allied fanatics forget that LW was outnumbered 5:1 in most engagements and 14:1 overall.

German pilot flew till he die or ran out of fuel whereas allied pilots went on vacation.

hrm some selective memory there huh, uhm those numbers may be correct but only from very late 44 or early 45, I'd need to verify, up until that time the LW enjoyed numerical superiority over the continent. and usually easily outnumbered allied aircraft 10 or more to 1 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I remember reading some chronicles of a Polish RAF pilot during the war, and more often than not, up until '44, the case was usually one Spit squad up against a wing of Focke Wulfs. Go figure. Generally said, when Jerry showed up, he showed up in numbers. But that is when he decided to show up. Many pilots were frustrated with the fact that it often took suicidal bombers to draw the LW up.

Pirschjaeger
07-30-2005, 11:04 AM
Until close to the end, LW pilots had much more experience. What can you expect?

If a ball team has 5 years experience and they play against a team with 1 years experience, chances are the players on the 5 year team with have better skill. Logical?

If all had trained the same and had equal experience, it would have been only the planes that made the difference.

Fritz

Pirschjaeger
07-30-2005, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by LStarosta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BSS_CUDA:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by carguy_:
Allied fanatics forget that LW was outnumbered 5:1 in most engagements and 14:1 overall.

German pilot flew till he die or ran out of fuel whereas allied pilots went on vacation.

hrm some selective memory there huh, uhm those numbers may be correct but only from very late 44 or early 45, I'd need to verify, up until that time the LW enjoyed numerical superiority over the continent. and usually easily outnumbered allied aircraft 10 or more to 1 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I remember reading some chronicles of a Polish RAF pilot during the war, and more often than not, up until '44, the case was usually one Spit squad up against a wing of Focke Wulfs. Go figure. Generally said, when Jerry showed up, he showed up in numbers. But that is when he decided to show up. Many pilots were frustrated with the fact that it often took suicidal bombers to draw the LW up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

According to an interview with Jaeger and a documentary from Discovery Channel, this was only in the last part of the war.

Fritz

LStarosta
07-30-2005, 02:23 PM
The accounts I read dated from 1942-1943. The Germans didn't want to come up and just fight fighters on a sweep. They only came up when the RAF sent bombers. Makes sense, the way I look at it. Keep in mind that is relatively speaking, since the guy who wrote the book was a Battle of Britain ace who was used to seeing much larger amounts of Germans in the air on a daily basis. Maybe he was just spoiled. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

But then again, who am I to question t3h D1$c0v3Ry c#@nN31 #@><? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

arcadeace
07-30-2005, 02:34 PM
Fritz is a Nazi http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

SkyChimp
07-30-2005, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by jugent:
Are the axis pilot a bunch of whiners and the allied pilots keep their "stiff upper lip"?


Yes.

Pirschjaeger
07-30-2005, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by Arcadeace:
Fritz is a Nazi http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Arcadeace, you are confusing me. Am I a pinko or a nazi, or a newly developed pinko-nazi?

I'm having an identity crisis. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Fritz http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Pirschjaeger
07-30-2005, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by LStarosta:
The accounts I read dated from 1942-1943. The Germans didn't want to come up and just fight fighters on a sweep. They only came up when the RAF sent bombers. Makes sense, the way I look at it. Keep in mind that is relatively speaking, since the guy who wrote the book was a Battle of Britain ace who was used to seeing much larger amounts of Germans in the air on a daily basis. Maybe he was just spoiled. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

But then again, who am I to question t3h D1$c0v3Ry c#@nN31 #@><? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Well, I've said it before, I have yet to see a source that I feel I can trust. Whether it's an ace(from either side) or Discovery Channel, they all seem to conflict to a certain degree.

When so many of the "experts" don't agree, you know something is wrong. It's too bad that only 70 years after the fact there are so many conflicting stories. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Lastnight there was a documentary on a Chinese channel. My wife was translating for me. It was about Canada's Avro Arrow. From what she translated, it was not even close to the story you'll get in the western medias. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I also have video footage of Chinese soldiers being trained during the war. They are all wearing German helmets.

Sometimes they write stories in the papers here in China, talking about how the Nazi party was building schools and hospitals in China. You won't here this in the western medias either.

Does anyone know why China has 91 P-51s?

Fritz

Badsight.
07-30-2005, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by jugent:
Are the axis pilot a bunch of whiners and the allied pilots keep their "stiff upper lip"?

the most complaining

the most crying

the most whining without a basis

increased 100-fold ever since we got Western Allied Aircraft

arcadeace
07-30-2005, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Arcadeace:
Fritz is a Nazi http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Arcadeace, you are confusing me. Am I a pinko or a nazi, or a newly developed pinko-nazi?

I'm having an identity crisis. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Fritz http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't feel bad, Godwin's law should be changed. You're doing fine untill you're judged pro-USA http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Atomic_Marten
07-31-2005, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by Arcadeace:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Arcadeace:
Fritz is a Nazi http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Arcadeace, you are confusing me. Am I a pinko or a nazi, or a newly developed pinko-nazi?

I'm having an identity crisis. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Fritz http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't feel bad, Godwin's law should be changed. You're doing fine untill you're judged pro-USA http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You guys do realise that nazi party was a workers party? National socialist party.. so they are really pinkos with nationalistic disguise. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif
Yeah, pinko-nazi (especially SA troopers).. correct term, if you ask me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

http://free-vk.t-com.hr/domagoj/smileys/VPEOPLE_biker.gif http://free-vk.t-com.hr/domagoj/smileys/VPEOPLE_constructionworker.gif http://free-vk.t-com.hr/domagoj/smileys/VPEOPLE_cop.gif http://free-vk.t-com.hr/domagoj/smileys/VPEOPLE_cowboy.gif http://free-vk.t-com.hr/domagoj/smileys/VPEOPLE_indian.gif http://free-vk.t-com.hr/domagoj/smileys/VPEOPLE_sailor.gif
Go figure..