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woofiedog
04-07-2006, 01:44 AM
http://www.adf-serials.com/gallery/albums/Ventura-A59-67/jp_2a59_67a.jpg

The Lockheed PV-1 (Model 237-27-01) had its origin in a deal cut in mid-1942 between the Navy and the USAAF. At that time, the USAAF was still flying antisubmarine patrols in support of the battle against German submarines in the Atlantic. The US Navy was very unhappy about this, since it had always felt that antisubmarine warfare was its responsibility. In support of this mission, the Navy was anxious to acquire a long-range, land-based heavy maritime reconnaissance and patrol aircraft capable of carrying a substantial bombload. However, the USAAF had always resisted what it perceived as an encroachment by the Navy into its jealously-guarded land-based bomber program, and forced the Navy to rely on long-range floatplanes such as the PBY Catalina, the PBM Mariner, and PB4Y Coronado to fulfill the long-range maritime reconnaissance role. However, the USAAF needed an aircraft plant to manufacture its next generation of heavy bombers, the B-29 Superfortress. It just so happened that the Navy owned a plant at Renton, Washington, which was at that time being operated by Boeing for the manufacture of the PBB-1 Sea Ranger twin-engined patrol flying boat. The Army proposed that the Navy cancel the Sea Ranger program and turn over the Renton factory to them for B-29 production. In exchange, the USAAF would agree to get out of the antisubmarine warfare business and would drop its objections to the Navy's operation of land-based bombers. In support of the Navy's new land-based antisubmarine patrol mission, the USAAF agreed that the Navy could acquire navalized versions of the B-24 Liberator and the B-25 Mitchell. In addition, it was proposed that Lockheed would cease all production of B-34/37 Venturas for the USAAF and would start building a navalized version of the Ventura for the Navy under the designation PV-1 for use in maritime reconnaissance and antisubmarine warfare. The Navy readily agreed to this arrangement.

On July 7, 1942, the USAAF formally agreed to discontinue procurement of B-34/B-37s so that Lockheed Vega could concentrate on the production of the PV-1 for the Navy.

The PV-1 was quite similar to the B-34, differing from it primarily in the inclusion of special equipment to adapt it to the maritime reconnaissance role. The PV-1 differed from the B-34 in having its maximum fuel capacity increased from 1345 US gallons to 1607 gallons, including 807 gallons in permanently-installed wing and fuselage tanks, two 155-gallon underwing drop tanks, and 490 gallons carried in two ferry/long range patrol tanks that could be installed the bomb bay. The engines remained a pair of 2000 hp Pratt & Whitney R-2800-31s. The defensive armament was reduced to two fixed forward-firing 0.50-in machine guns in the upper fuselage decking, twin 0.50-in guns in the dorsal turret, and two flexible 0.30-inch machine guns in the ventral position. The bomb bay was modified so that it could carry 3000 pounds of bombs, six 325-lb depth charges, or one torpedo. The PV-1s were also fitted with certain Navy-specified equipment such as an ASD-1 search radar with a radome installed in the extreme nose.

Early production PV-1s still carried a bombardier's station behind the nose radome, with four side windows and a flat bomb-aiming panel underneath the nose. Late production PV-1s dispensed with this bombardier position and replaced it with a pack with three 0.50-inch machine guns underneath the nose. These aircraft could also carry eight 0.50-inch rockets on launchers underneath the wings.

The first PV-1 took off on its maiden flight on November 3, 1942. A total of 1600 PV-1s were delivered between December 1942 and May 1944. They were all built by Vega Aircraft Corporation, which had become known simply as Lockheed Plant A-1 by the time production of the PV-1 had come to an end.

Deliveries of the PV-1 to the Navy began in December of 1942. The PV-1 first entered service with the US Navy on February 1, 1943, VB-127 at NAS Deland being the first to receive the type. It was actually preceded into service by the PV-3 by a couple of months, the PV-3 being the designation applied to Ventura IIAs that had been requisitioned by the Navy from RAF contracts.

The first PV-1 squadron into combat was VP-135, which was deployed to the Aleutians in April of 1943. In this theatre, they were subsequently operated by VP-131, VP-136, and VP-139. They flew maritime reconnaissance patrols and carried out strikes against Paramushiro, one of the northernmost Japanese islands in the Kurile chain. Since the PV-1 was radar-equipped, PV-1s would often act as leaders for USAAF B-24 bomber formations. PV-1s were deployed to the Solomons during the autumn of 1943. A detachment from VB-145 operated antisubmarine patrols out of bases in Brazil.

During 1945, the designation PV-1P was allocated to some PV-1s equipped with cameras.

The PV-1 was even operated briefly as a night fighter. Fitted with six nose guns and AI Mk IV radar, PV-1s equipped the Marine Corps' first night fighter squadron, VMF(N)-531, which became operational in the Solomons in September of 1943. It scored its first night kill two months later. VMF(N)-531 was transferred back to the USA during the summer of 1944.

During the war, many PV-1s were delivered to the RAF as the Ventura G.R.V. RAF serials retained for the 387 Ventura G.R.Vs were FN956/FN999, FP537/FP684, JS889/JS984, and JT800/JT898. However, there were many diversions to the RAAF, RCAF, SAAF, and RNZAF. FN965, FN991, FP642, FP643, FP644, FP648, and FP649 were not delivered, FN967, FN972, FN973, FN974, and FN979 were held in Canada, FP654 and FP647 crashed before delivery, and JS889/JS984 were all diverted to the South African Air Force.

The RAF Ventura G.R.Vs operated with No. 519 and 521 Squadrons of Coastal Command and with Nos. 13 and 500 Squadrons in the Mediterranean. They were also used briefly by No. 624 Squadron for special duties and mine spotting. Some of the RAF aircraft were later modified for transport duty with No. 299 Squadron of RAF Transport Command as the Ventura C.V.

The RAAF received 55 PV-1s diverted from US Navy stocks. Serials were A-59-50/A59-104. The RAAF PV-1s served primarily in New Guinea with No 13 Squadron until replaced by Australian-built Bristol Beauforts. The RAAF disposed of its Venturas during the 1946-47 fiscal year.

The Royal New Zealand Air Force (RNZAF) received 116 PV-1s with serials NZ4501/NZ4582 and NZ4606/NZ4639. They served with Nos 1, 2, 3, 4, 8, and 9 Squadrons and saw extensive service in the Solomons whey they flew bombing, reconnaissance, and air rescue duties. The Ventura was not initially a popular choice, the B-25 Mitchell being preferred by air and ground crews alike. The introduction of the type into squadron service was not smooth; technical problems causing the grounding of the entire Ventura fleet on one occasion. Flying characteristics which were completely different from those of the docile Hudson gave rise to a number of accidents; in all 40 Venturas were lost in RNZAF service, either through enemy action or accidents. By the war's end however, the Ventura had gained at least a grudging respect, and in many cases undying affection, from those who had flown and serviced they type both in New Zealand and under operational conditions in the Pacific. New Zealand Venturas were phased out of service in 1946, when No. 2 Squadron was disbanded.

The South African Air Force received 134 Ventura Mk.Vs diverted from British contracts. They were used to equip some five squadrons (Nos. 22, 23, 25, 27, and 29) which were used at home to protect shipping going around the Cape of Good Hope. In addition, they were used in the Mediterranean theatre. No 22 Squadron operated from Gibraltar while No. 27 Squadron operated in the Balkans in late 1944 on anti-shipping and antisubmarine warfare duty. South African use of the Ventura Mk.V continued into the postwar era, and some remained with No. 2 (Maritime) Group until well into the 1960s.

The Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) received 20 Ventura G.R.Vs diverted from Royal Air Force contracts. In addition, the RCAF received 137 ex-US Navy PV-1s, which were given the Canadian serials 1241/2777. The PV-1s (along with the G.R.Vs) were assigned to five maritime squadrons (Nos 8, 113, 115, 145, and 149) in Canada. Several RCAF PV-1s continued to serve after the war in patrol, training, and target towing roles.

A small number of PV-1s were delivered to the Free French beginning in 1944. These were operated by Flotille 6F until they were replaced by Bloch MB 175s in the immediate postwar period.

The Forca Aerea Brasileira was supplied with 14 ex-US Navy PV-1s, which in FAB service were incorrectly designated B-34. They were assigned the FAB serials 5034/5047.


Links:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3897/is_200302/ai_n9204252
http://www.flightjournal.com/fj/articles/ventura/ventura_1.asp
http://home.inreach.com/trinity/photos/PV-1%20Ventura-01.html

http://es.geocities.com/mymodelnet/vent_aleu.jpg

http://es.geocities.com/mymodelnet/vent_bomb.jpg

panther3485
04-07-2006, 06:37 AM
Nice one, woofiedog

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

One of the lesser known WW2 combat planes but very interesting. I can see a 'family resemblance' with the Hudson.

I'm just starting to learn more about some of the 'less famous' but still significant planes of this period.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Best regards,
panther3485

woofiedog
04-07-2006, 07:01 AM
Lesser known and given credit for... as the Hudson/Ventura/Harpoon were used on all fronts of the war and by most of all the Allied Airforces.
The firepower of the 5 50's in the nose of the Harpoon model must have been Pretty Awesome... plus the added bombs and rockets.
It would make for a Excellent Anti-Shipping Aircraft for IL-2.

http://www.bluejacket.com/usn/images/ac/pv2_lockheed_harpoon_pcola1102.jpg <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">The armament standardized on two fixed 0.50-inch machine guns in the upper nose decking plus three fixed 0.50-inch machine guns in an undernose pack. The bombardier's position on the early PV-1s was finally deleted. Two 0.50-inch machine guns were carried in the dorsal turret, and two 0.50-inch machine guns were installed in the rear ventral position. Eight 5-inch HVAR rockets could be carried underneath the wings. The internal bombload was increased to 4000 pounds. </span>

Waldo.Pepper
04-07-2006, 12:45 PM
There are two books I recommend to learn more about the Night Fighter version of the plane.

This one...

http://modelingmadness.com/scotts/books/usmcnf.jpg


There is also a brief history of Night Fighting Venturas in the superb two volume set by Guerlac - Radar in World War 2.

woofiedog
04-07-2006, 01:26 PM
Thank's for the Heads Up... looks like some excellent reading.

Waldo.Pepper
04-07-2006, 04:21 PM
reading.
Er well!?

You don't really read a Squadron Signal book. Its kind of like Playboy. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

woofiedog
04-08-2006, 05:43 AM
http://kalaniosullivan.com/KunsanAB/VMF513/Pics/VMF513F4UJK.jpg

A bit of a story about F4U-5N Corsair's aboard the Princeton (CV 37)in 1951.

Link: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0IAX/is_5_85/ai_106861660

http://www.cv6.org/images/vfn90i.jpg
<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">VF(N)-90 Squadron Insignia, courtesy Frank Belcher, Jr.</span>

Also a quick story from the Nightbirds aboard the USS Enterprise CV-6 in 1944.

The Night Birds of the Big E
Arnold W. Olson ART 1/c VF(N)-90

Link: http://www.cv6.org/1945/nightops/nightbirds.htm

And you can't leave out the first Jet Vs Jet night action...

Douglas F3D Skyknight

http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/Rundberg/3571L.jpg

The Skyknight served with a number of US Navy and Marine squadrons, generally off of land bases. It was nicknamed "Willie the Whale" for its less than sleek appearance. Marine Squadron VMF(N)-513 was sent to Kunsan, Korea, with their Skyknights in the spring of 1952, where the type served with distinction.

The USAF had operated Boeing B-29 Superfortresses on daylight raids over enemy territory early in the war, but suffered excessive losses to North Korean MiG-15s, and so the bombers switched to night attacks. However, by late 1951, the enemy had refined their ability to direct MiG-15s against the Superfortresses using ground radar control, and losses began to rise again. USAF F-94B Starfire night fighters were put into service to protect the bombers, but for various reasons they did not prove satisfactory in this role. Marine Skyknights were pressed into service as night escorts instead and performed the mission very well.

While the Skyknight was not as aerodynamically advanced as the sleek MiG-15 and did not have an excess of engine thrust by any means, its four cannon packed a hefty punch, and it could easily out-turn a MiG-15 whose pilot was foolish enough to get into a turning contest. Probably the biggest factor in the Skyknight's favor was that the MiG-15 did not have radar, being directed to targets at night under ground radar control, and in a night fight the MiG pilot was largely blind while the Skyknight crew could "see" perfectly well.

On the night of 2:3 November 1952, a Skyknight piloted by Marine Major William Stratton, accompanied by radar operator Master Sergeant Hans Hoagland, shot down what they reported from the exhaust pattern to be a Yak-15 fighter, and claimed a confirmed kill since the Skyknight flew through debris, narrowly evading damage. Russian records indicate the target was actually a MiG-15 -- the Yak-15 was really not suited for operational use, and wasn't used in combat in Korea or anywhere else -- and though the Skyknight set the MiG on fire, the pilot managed to extinguish the flames and get back to base. The MiG was fully operational in a few days, a tribute to its rugged construction.

http://www.boeing.com/history/mdc/images/D4C-122744-1.jpg

However, five days later, on the night of 7:8 November, another Skyknight under the command of Marine Captain Oliver R. Davis with radar operator Warrant Officer D.F. "Ding" Fessler shot down a MiG-15. Russian sources do confirm this kill and that the pilot, a Lieutenant Kovalyov, ejected safely.

On 10 December 1952, a Skyknight piloted by Marine Lieutenant Joseph Corvi with radar operator Sergeant Dan George spotted a "bogey" on radar. They could not establish visual contact, but as no "friendlies" were supposed to be in the area, they fired on the target. A kill was confirmed when Sergeant George spotted a wing tumbling past them. This was one of the first times when an aircraft destroyed an enemy that the crew could not see. It turned out to be one of the little Po-2 biplanes used by the North Koreans to harass UN forces at night. The Po-2 was a difficult target, since it flew low and slow, it was small and agile, and its mostly wooden construction did not show up well on radar.

And one last story...

http://ajbs.com/musee/photos%20Musee/Corsair/Guy-Bordelon/F4U%20Bordelon.jpg

Lt. Guy Bordelon
Night-fighter ace, US Navy F4U-5N Corsair pilot

http://ajbs.com/musee/photos%20Musee/Corsair/Guy-Bordelon/VC-3%20Logo.jpg

http://www.acesandautographs.com/images/Korea/BordelonCockpit.jpg

Link: http://www.acepilots.com/korea_bordelon.html

http://www.acesandautographs.com/images/Korea/Bordelon_walking.jpg

Missing Link: http://www.controltowers.co.uk/B/burscough.htm

Divine-Wind
04-08-2006, 09:38 AM
It'd be cool to be able to fly this, especially on night missions (I'm a sucker for twin-engined nightfighters http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif).

But what with all the copyright and trademark issues (Lockheed included, IIRC), this probably won't happen in the near future.

HotelBushranger
04-09-2006, 04:00 AM
The Hudson is my absolute favourite twin engine, would kill to have it ingame http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Temora Aviation Museum in Australia still flies one, the lucky devils! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

https://www.aviationmuseum.com.au/aircraft/Hudson.cfm

RxMan
04-09-2006, 10:01 AM
There's an excellent PV-1 at the Lone Star Museum in Galveston, TX.

VF-17_Jolly
04-09-2006, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by RxMan:
There's an excellent PV-1 at the Lone Star Museum in Galveston, TX.

If you mean this one it`s a Harpoon PV-2
http://www.warbirdregistry.org/pv2harpoonregistry/images/pv2harpoon-37634-2.jpg

http://www.warbirdregistry.org/pv2harpoonregistry/pv2harpoon-37634.html

http://www.lsfm.org/index.php?pgid=9

lbhskier37
04-09-2006, 03:07 PM
The Wisconsin chapter of the CAF are restoring a PV-2D right now. When I lived in Waukesha last summer, my apartment was about 2 miles from the airport where they were doing it, but I never got the chance to get over there. Kinda regret it now that I moved away.

Beaufort-RAF
08-15-2006, 09:08 AM
The Ventura had a hard time as a bomber in RAF service.

Just not suited to daylight raids over Western Europe.

The first op was in November 42€ and they were withdrawn and replaced by Mossies after less than a year (Venturas went on to serve with Coastal Command).

They had quite a bloody time, being harassed by 190s & 109s time and time again.

They was one particularly disastrous raid on Amsterdam by 487 Squadron in May €˜43, when 10 out of 11 were shot down.

By some bizarre coincidence there happened to be a seminar of fighter pilots in the area AND a visit to the region by a Nazi official.

So not only were the Germans on full alert but also some of the best pilots were available.

About 70 fighters were scrambled and the escort was separated, the Venturas tried to press on but were picked off one by one.

Eventually only the leader Trent was left. He bombed the target and then was shot down himself.

A solitary Ventura, with both engines initially on fire and 2 badly wounded gunners managed to limp back to England.

Trent was later awarded the VC.



http://www.1000aircraftphotos.com/APS/OtherSources/2309L.jpg
http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/images/c3404.jpg
http://www.1000aircraftphotos.com/APS/2229L.jpg
http://www.bomber-command.info/ventpic2.jpg
http://www.jaapteeuwen.com/ww2aircraft/pictures/lendlease/lend-lease065%20lockheed%20ventura.jpg
http://www.uni2.co.kr/airplane/aircraft%20of%20ww2/images/l/lockheed%20ventura.jpg

DIRTY-MAC
08-15-2006, 03:31 PM
If Im remember correctly i think there were some Hudsons used as FIGHTERS!?! over dunquirk
will se if I can dig up the source

woofiedog
08-15-2006, 06:45 PM
A few New photo's of a restored Hudson.

Link:
http://www.oldcmp.net/huds_1.html
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher4/a28.html (http://home.att.net/%7Ejbaugher4/a28.html)
http://www.arts.ualberta.ca/~idesign/jul-02/hudson700.jpg (http://www.arts.ualberta.ca/%7Eidesign/jul-02/hudson700.jpg)

http://www.oldcmp.net/Images/Aircraft/Hudson/Hud_4.jpg


Lockheed Hudson Patrol Bomber Fighting the U-boats

The Hudson Mk I began squadron service with the RAF Coastal Command's No. 224 Squadron in the Summer of 1939. By September, No. 233 Squadron was similarly equipped, while No. 220 Squadron had begun to replace its Avro Ansons with the Hudson Mk III. Not long after war broke out, Hudsons also equipped No. 206 and 269 Squadrons. These squadrons all flew maritime patrol and anti-shipping sorties from the British Isles. Additional squadrons were formed during the war until the RAF saw a peak of 17 Hudson squadrons. Other Hudsons flew reconnaissance missions over Germany, occupied Europe, and (in civil registration) southern parts of the Soviet Union.

Full story in link below...

Link: http://uboat.net/allies/aircraft/hudson.htm

berg417448
08-15-2006, 07:00 PM
Some info on use as a night fighter:

http://home.inreach.com/trinity/VMFA-531%20History.html
PV-1 Ventura, VMF(N)-531, Bougainville, 1944
By July, the Squadron was at MCAS El Centro, CA (at the CO€s insistence). In August, the first contingent of squadron aircraft launched from the Hawaiian Islands for Espiritu Santo in the New Hebrides Islands, arriving on 25 August, and then on to the Russell Islands, arriving in Banika on 11 September. Air patrols began on 16 September (as a member of MAG-21, 1st MAW), thus 531 became the first Naval Aviation night fighter squadron in the South Pacific and the first of any of the U.S. services to participate in combat as a radar equipped night fighter squadron.
Of note, the night fighters were never popularized as were the day fighters or the employment of close air support, which at the time was unique to the Marine Corps. Aside from the obvious security restrictions, Marines in the Pacific simply did not know that the night fighters existed.
By 18 October 1943, the squadron was working together with its own Ground Control Intercept personnel (a unit responsible for a large portion of the fighter direction at night in the Central Solomon Islands area) located at Liapari Point on Vella Lavella. LtCol Schwable was instrumental in insisting the CCI unit was taken. The squadron operated from fields in the Russell Islands, Vella Lavella, and Bougainville, participating in the New Georgia, Bougainville, Bismark Archipelago, and Northern Solomons Campaigns while pioneering Marine CCI and night fighter tactics. The squadron also covered the landing at Treasury Island and Choiseul.
The first enemy plane ever destroyed by a night fighter in the Naval service, a €œBetty€ bomber, was shot down on 31 October 1943 by a VF (N)-75 (U.S. Navy) F4U Corsair under the direction of a VMF (N)-531 EDO located at Pakoi Bay on Vella Lavella.
On 13 November 1943, Captain D. R. Jenkins with a crew of SSgt T. J. Glennon and SSgt C.H. Stout got the first VMF (N)-531 night kill, a €œBetty€, while under the control of €œHorse Base€, a task force about 50 miles southwest of Torokina Point in the Northern Solomons.
The First kill by a Marine CCI / night fighter team was scored by VMF (N)-531. On 6 December, 1943 LtCol John D. €œIron John€ Harshberger (€œHarsh John Iron-Berger€ to some), the Grey Ghosts first Executive Officer and second Commanding Officer, downed a single-engine, twin-float plane off Motupina Point on Bougainville. Harshberger became legendary in the annals of Marine Aviation as a fearless, innovative, and dynamic officer, a leader of the highest caliber,
The squadron went on to compile an enviable record of twelve enemy planes shot down by five different pilots and crews, all at night. All the kills occurred at altitudes from 7,000 to 15,000 feet. VMF (N)-531 CCI controllers accounted for a total of ten enemy aircraft losses. The Japanese quickly became wary of risking their planes in area protected by the CCI/ night fighter teams.
VMF(N)-531 lost six PV-l aircraft and seventeen pilots/crew members although none as the result of enemy fire. Among the casualties were Capt Jenkins, SSgt Glennon, and SSgt Stout.
The squadron completed its South Pacific tour based on Green Island (northwest of Bougainville) working with patrols of PT boats. LCI€s and PGM€s. Despite some communications problems, it was proven that properly controlled night fighter cover could substantially aid small surface craft and shore installations with the assurance that enemy aircraft will not interfere.
Lessons learned by VMF(N)-531 in night interceptions were passed on to replacement pilots and to other squadrons being trained in the U.S. These lessons formed the basis for highly successful night interception later in the war.
In night fighting, Marine aviators were thrown into pioneering of the most daring sort, but despite tribulations that often seemed insurmountable, they eventually delivered a record unique in WWII.
Probably the most important contribution VMF(N)-531 made to the developments that led to later successful operations against the Japanese was to prove the desirability of landing CCI equipment on D-Day, in order to provide efficient ground control for night fighters during the troops€ first few critical, nights ashore.
By 1 September 1944, the squadron had returned to Cherry Point and was deactivated on 3 September only to be reactivated on 13 October at MCAAF Kinston, NC and reassigned to MAG-53, 9thMAW.
On September 29, MAG-53, including VMF(N)-531, moved to MCAS Eagle Mountain Lake, TX (near Ft. Worth) where the squadron operated as a training squadron with some of the original officer and men. Problems faced at Cherry Point with the simultaneous training of day fighter, bombers, and night fighters disappeared.
Eagle Mountain Lake was off-airways, MAG-53 was the only occupant, and the air station operated the mess hall, officer and enlisted clubs, Post Exchange and other facilities to accommodate night operations. Quickly, two GCI units about 60 miles apart were in operation.
To more expeditiously train pilots, VMF(N)-531 was supplied pilots and aircraft to fly solely as bogeys. SBD-5€s were initially supplied (received 13 Jan 1945) and later replaced by SB2C-4E aircraft. The first night fighters (F7F-2N€s) started arriving 17 Jan 1945. The bogey pilots were mostly veterans not due to return overseas in the near future. However, a surprising number requested and received transfer to the night fighter program.
Although new two-seat Tigercat (F7F-3N) night fighters were developed to replace the old Ventura€s, and were made to order, they were not produced in time for use against the Japanese. However, new aircraft, including F6F Hellcat and F4U Corsair night fighters, which Marines flew later, took their operating techniques from the persistent PV€.

Feathered_IV
08-15-2006, 07:00 PM
When I get home I'll have to dig out the account of the RAAF Hudson that took on a formation of Zero's that included aces such as Sakai Nishizawa and Sasai. Sakai said it was the most gutsy piece of flying he'd ever seen. He tried for years to get the Australian government to give the pilot some posthumous award. But to no avail.

Beaufort-RAF
08-15-2006, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by DIRTY-MAC:
If Im remember correctly i think there were some Hudsons used as FIGHTERS!?! over dunquirk
will se if I can dig up the source

Absolutely true, it's well detailed in Air Battle of Dunkirk (Norman Franks).

They took on Stukas and 109s.

berg417448
08-15-2006, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
When I get home I'll have to dig out the account of the RAAF Hudson that took on a formation of Zero's that included aces such as Sakai Nishizawa and Sasai. Sakai said it was the most gutsy piece of flying he'd ever seen. He tried for years to get the Australian government to give the pilot some posthumous award. But to no avail.

Links:

http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/hudson/A16-201.html

http://uncleted.jinak.cz/ssakai2.htm

Feathered_IV
08-15-2006, 07:56 PM
Thats the one http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
The pilot, Cowan was born in the same town as me, no more than a kilometer from where I grew up http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif .

FltLt_HardBall
08-16-2006, 01:55 AM
RNZAF Hudsons and Venturas accounted for several air-to-air kills during the Solomons campaign.

On April 2nd 1943 an RNZAF Hudson claimed a F1M2 "Pete" floatplane, becoming the first pilot flying for an RNZAF squadron to make a kill. (RNZAF pilots flying in RAF squadrons earlier of course had made kills )

On July 24th 1943 an RNZAF Hudson was attacked by 8 Zeros, and a gunner was able to down one of them before the Hudson was forced down into the sea and the remaining Zeros strafed and killed all but one of the surviving crew. As there were no other surving witnesses to coroborrate the claim, it was never confirmed, however the gunner FltSgt ganley received the DFM. The pilot, FltLt Allison received a posthumous mention in despatches.

On December 24th 1943 RNZAF two PV-1 Venturas provided support for a major strike on Rabaul and claimed 2 Zeros destroyed, plus 5 Zeros damaged, for which two DFCs and a DFM were awarded.

An RNZAF Hudson pilot, FgOff Gudsell, also recieved the United States Air Medal for sucessfully evading fighter attacks against overwhelming odds on two occasions, the second action on 27 November 1942 when Gudsell sighted an enemy task force to the south-west of Vella Lavella. Gudsell reported the composition and position of the force, and then closed with it to make a closer inspection. As he was doing this, he was dived on by three land-based Japanese fighters. In their first attack they put the Hudson's top turret gun out of action and then concentrated on attacks from astern. Gudsell directed the Hudson from the astro-hatch while the second pilot, Flying Officer McKechnie, piloted the aircraft. By carefully timed evasive action the Hudson crew avoided injury or serious damage to their aircraft, and after an action which lasted seventeen minutes the Japanese aircraft broke off and retired, having scored only three hits. This early action contributed to the high morale which prevailed in the squadron throughout its tour of operations. In the previous month, the Americans had lost a number of their search planes through enemy action and, after seeing the comparatively light armament of the Hudsons, had told the New Zealanders that they would be sitting ducks for Japanese fighters. The proof that the Hudson could repel odds of three to one when properly handled and resolutely fought was comforting to all the aircrews.

Flying Officer Gudsell was the first member of the RNZAF to be decorated for service in the South Pacific.

Sources: "Wings over the Pacific", Alex Horn. "Air-To-Air", chris Rudge.

HotelBushranger
08-16-2006, 04:38 AM
Thank's for bumping this back to the top. By the way, can someone tell me if there's any difference between the Hudson and Ventura? By the looks of it, the Ventura was a much heavier armed version.

Cheers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

major_setback
08-16-2006, 06:32 AM
Originally posted by DIRTY-MAC:
If Im remember correctly i think there were some Hudsons used as FIGHTERS!?!



An Ace Ventura maybe!? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JG53Frankyboy
08-16-2006, 06:39 AM
Originally posted by HotelBushranger:
Thank's for bumping this back to the top. By the way, can someone tell me if there's any difference between the Hudson and Ventura? By the looks of it, the Ventura was a much heavier armed version.

Cheers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Hudson
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher4/a28.html (http://home.att.net/%7Ejbaugher4/a28.html)

Ventura
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher2/b34.html (http://home.att.net/%7Ejbaugher2/b34.html)

major_setback
08-16-2006, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HotelBushranger:
Thank's for bumping this back to the top. By the way, can someone tell me if there's any difference between the Hudson and Ventura? By the looks of it, the Ventura was a much heavier armed version.

Cheers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Hudson
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher4/a28.html (http://home.att.net/%7Ejbaugher4/a28.html)

Ventura
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher2/b34.html (http://home.att.net/%7Ejbaugher2/b34.html) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But do they look any different (excuse my ignorance)?

Waldo.Pepper
08-16-2006, 02:33 PM
Ventura

Night Fighter with AI Radar. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

A favourite of mine..

http://home.inreach.com/trinity/VMFA-531%20History.html

FltLt_HardBall
08-16-2006, 06:18 PM
Hudson has a glazed nose and the upper turret sticks out noticeably.

Ventura has a solid nose and a more streamlined turret.

luftluuver
08-16-2006, 07:48 PM
http://www.umt.fme.vutbr.cz/~ruja/modely/podklady/Lockheed/Hudson/Hudson.jpg

http://www.umt.fme.vutbr.cz/~ruja/modely/podklady/Lockheed/Ventura/Ventura.jpg
http://www.umt.fme.vutbr.cz/~ruja/modely/podklady.htm (http://www.umt.fme.vutbr.cz/%7Eruja/modely/podklady.htm)
Lots of other scale drawings,

woofiedog
08-17-2006, 06:54 AM
luftluuver... Very Nice find... Thank's for posting.

woofiedog
08-17-2006, 11:45 AM
Waldo.Pepper... Excellent article on the VMFA-531 Squadron.

Thank's for posting

Beaufort-RAF
08-21-2006, 01:26 PM
http://www.flightglobal.com/ImageArchive/PhotoArchive/1939-1945/previews/fa_18441s.jpg
http://www.flightglobal.com/ImageArchive/PhotoArchive/1939-1945/previews/fa_18447s.jpg
http://www.flightglobal.com/ImageArchive/PhotoArchive/1939-1945/previews/fa_18450s.jpg
http://www.flightglobal.com/ImageArchive/PhotoArchive/1939-1945/previews/fa_18443s.jpg
http://www.flightglobal.com/ImageArchive/PhotoArchive/1939-1945/previews/fa_18451s.jpg

Beaufort-RAF
08-21-2006, 01:26 PM
http://www.flightglobal.com/ImageArchive/PhotoArchive/1939-1945/previews/fa_18448s.jpg
http://www.flightglobal.com/ImageArchive/PhotoArchive/1939-1945/previews/fa_18454s.jpg
http://www.flightglobal.com/ImageArchive/PhotoArchive/1939-1945/previews/fa_18445s.jpg
http://www.flightglobal.com/ImageArchive/PhotoArchive/1939-1945/previews/fa_18446s.jpg
http://www.flightglobal.com/ImageArchive/PhotoArchive/1939-1945/previews/fa_18444s.jpg

Beaufort-RAF
08-21-2006, 01:27 PM
http://www.flightglobal.com/ImageArchive/PhotoArchive/1939-1945/previews/fa_18442s.jpg
http://www.flightglobal.com/ImageArchive/PhotoArchive/1939-1945/previews/fa_18440s.jpg
http://www.flightglobal.com/ImageArchive/PhotoArchive/1939-1945/previews/fa_18385s.jpg
http://www.flightglobal.com/ImageArchive/PhotoArchive/1939-1945/previews/fa_18453s.jpg
http://www.flightglobal.com/ImageArchive/PhotoArchive/1939-1945/previews/fa_18452s.jpg
http://www.flightglobal.com/ImageArchive/PhotoArchive/1939-1945/previews/fa_18449s.jpg

Waldo.Pepper
08-21-2006, 04:05 PM
Those are indescribably beautiful pictures. They have such atmosphere. What a beautiful plane. Can you say where and when the pictures were taken?

Thanks.

Beaufort-RAF
08-21-2006, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
Those are indescribably beautiful pictures. They have such atmosphere. What a beautiful plane. Can you say where and when the pictures were taken?


Methwold, Jan '43, 21 Squadron.

You can see the captions here (http://www.flightglobal.com/ImageArchive/PhotoArchive/1939-1945/index19.aspx)

BillyTheKid_22
08-21-2006, 07:50 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

HotelBushranger
08-22-2006, 06:17 AM
Holy ****e, those pics are beaut! Thanks so much for posting em mate, they're seriously orgasmic http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

JG53Frankyboy
08-22-2006, 06:48 AM
the guns are .303 or .50 ?

and i belive they have no bombsight anymore, correct ?

Beaufort-RAF
08-22-2006, 07:12 AM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
the guns are .303 or .50 ?

and i belive they have no bombsight anymore, correct ?

The pair of fixed guns above the nose are .50s, the rest .303s.

The RAF Venturas did have bombsights.

Beaufort-RAF
09-12-2006, 04:53 AM
Just out of interest, the day after those pics were taken, 21 Squadron and the other 2 Ventura squadrons (464 & 487) bombed a Cherbourg airfield.

A 464 aircraft crashed in the Channel with the loss of the crew on the way across.

The flak over the target was very accurate and many were damaged, a 487 aircraft ditched in the sea, one crewman losing his life.

Incidentally this was also the day of the first RAF Mitchell raid.

BTW the RAF pilots called the Ventura the €˜Pig€ (and not very affectionately).