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faustnik
12-17-2004, 01:17 PM
I can find production dates for the various 109s but, I'm having trouble finding the months in which the various versions reached operational units. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Faust

faustnik
12-17-2004, 01:17 PM
I can find production dates for the various 109s but, I'm having trouble finding the months in which the various versions reached operational units. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Faust

Takata_
12-17-2004, 02:06 PM
- First deliveries:

Bf 109G-2 - 07.1942
I./JG54 > 30
III./JG52 > 20

Bf 109G-6 - 02.1943
II./JG27 > 8
II./JG51 > 2
II./JG77 > 12

Bf 109G-14 - 07.1944
II./JG11 > 16
II./JG2 > 2
Stab/JG53 > 3

Bf 109G-10 - 10.1944
I./JG3 > 1
II./JG77 > 1
II./JG4 > 10
Stab/JG77 > 6

Bf 109K-4 - 10.1944
Stab/JG27 > 1
I./JG27 > 1
II./JG27 > 2
III./JG27 > 75
IV./JG27 > 4
III./JG4 > 15
III./JG77 > 75

faustnik
12-17-2004, 02:28 PM
Thanks. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So, the G6AS would be around the same time as the G14?

meh_cd
12-17-2004, 03:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Takata_:
- First deliveries:

Bf 109G-2 - 07.1942
I./JG54 &gt; 30
III./JG52 &gt; 20

Bf 109G-6 - 02.1943
II./JG27 &gt; 8
II./JG51 &gt; 2
II./JG77 &gt; 12

Bf 109G-14 - 07.1944
II./JG11 &gt; 16
II./JG2 &gt; 2
Stab/JG53 &gt; 3

Bf 109G-10 - 10.1944
I./JG3 &gt; 1
II./JG77 &gt; 1
II./JG4 &gt; 10
Stab/JG77 &gt; 6

Bf 109K-4 - 10.1944
Stab/JG27 &gt; 1
I./JG27 &gt; 1
II./JG27 &gt; 2
III./JG27 &gt; 75
IV./JG27 &gt; 4
III./JG4 &gt; 15
III./JG77 &gt; 75 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry to butt in and try and change the topic, but do you know what the dates are for the 190? I'd just like to see it for comparison.

Sig.Hirsch
12-18-2004, 05:37 AM
not production dates , but dates of entering combat service for the Focke Wulf

Fw-190 A2 : Oktober 1941
Fw-190 A3 : March 1942
Fw-190 A4 : June 1942
Fw-190 A5 : February 1943
Fw-190 A6 : August 1943
Fw-190 A8 : April-May 1944
Fw-190 A9 : November 1944
Fw-190 D9 : July 1944

A7 is only 80 planes in late 43 , recon planes mainly .

cheers ,

Takata_
12-18-2004, 05:49 AM
For G-6/AS first deliveries to combat units*

Bf 109G-6/AS - 06.1944
I./JG3 &gt; 30
II./JG27 &gt; 42

* about subtypes, nothing is really clear: from my sources, "Flugzeugbest√¬§nde und Bewegunsmeldungen 3.42 - 12.44", subtypes are written one month and omited next entry or mixed with other subtypes. A lot of G-6 subtypes are mentioned but it is not very accurate.

About Fw 190s' first deliveries to combat units:

Fw 190A-4 - 07.1942
II./JG1 &gt; 7

Fw 190A-5 - 01.1943
II./JG2 &gt; 2

Fw 190A-6 - 06.1943
Stab./JG2 &gt; 1
I./JG11 &gt; 10
Stab./JG26 &gt; 2
II./JG26 &gt; 2
III./JG26 &gt; 1

Fw 190A-7 - 12.1943
I./JG1 &gt; 14
III./JG11 &gt; 1
Stab./JG301 &gt; 1
II./JG1 &gt; 4

Fw 190A-8 - 04.1944
I./JG1 &gt; 34
II./JG1 &gt; 26
Stab./JG2 &gt; 6
I./JG2 &gt; 17
III./JG2 &gt; 37
I./JG11 &gt; 37
III./JG11 &gt; 16
Stab./JG26 &gt; 1
I./JG26 &gt; 36
II./JG26 &gt; 26
II./JG300 &gt; 8
SturmStaffel.1 &gt; 6

Fw 190F-8 - 04.1944
III./SG3 &gt; 11
I./SG4 &gt; 24
Stab./SG10 &gt; 2
I./SG10 &gt; 14
II./SG10 &gt; 15
III./SG10 &gt; 22
II./SG77 &gt; 5
I./SG151 &gt; 6
II./SG151 &gt; 6
III./SG151 &gt; 8
I./SG152 &gt; 11

Fw 190A-9 - 08.1944
Stab./JG54 &gt; 1
II./JG54 &gt; 4

Fw 190D-9 - 09.1944
III./JG54 &gt; 18

Takata_
12-18-2004, 06:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sig.Hirsch:
not production dates , but dates of entering combat service for the Focke Wulf

Fw-190 A2 : Oktober 1941
Fw-190 A3 : March 1942
Fw-190 A4 : June 1942
Fw-190 A5 : February 1943
Fw-190 A6 : August 1943
Fw-190 A8 : April-May 1944
Fw-190 A9 : November 1944
Fw-190 D9 : July 1944

A7 is only 80 planes in late 43 , recon planes mainly .

cheers , <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What you say is what is usualy said about Fws' production, but it doesn't match those datas :

Fw 190A-7 delivered from factory to Jagdverb√¬§nde (only) :

12.1943 &gt; 16
01.1944 &gt; 115
02.1944 &gt; 144
03.1944 &gt; 191
04.1944 &gt; 54
05.1944 &gt; 3

Total : 523 Fw 190A-7

Sources :
Michael Holm
The Luftwaffe, 1933-1945
http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/flugbew.htm

"Flugzeugbestand und Bewegungsmeldungen, 3.42 - 12.44

The original documents can be found at the Bundesarchiv-Milit√¬§rarchiv in Freiburg:

RL 2 III/874 - 875 covering 3.42 - 12.42
RL 2 III/876 - 879 covering 1.43 - 12.43
RL 2 III/880 - 882 covering 1.44 - 12.44

The originals are mostly handwritten, and can be hard to read at times. The records before 3.42 and after 12.44 has been lost."

Takata

Sig.Hirsch
12-18-2004, 06:32 AM
Takata , FW-190 A9 in August 44 ist impossible
production began in 10-44 ....
they must have been wrong in your sources or they received prototypes or my two books are wrong .

Also the Dora first arrived in operational units in July-August 1944 for test, sources : Focke Wulf FW 190 - Ta 152, Entwicklung-Technik-Einsatz by H.Nowarra.

I'm surpised of 190-A6 in June of your source , it's when the production begins it's strange .
But thx for precisions about the A7, i didn't know this ,in the book Fw-190 in action squadron signal a/c n‚?170 , they say 80 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
i'll ask my friend what figures he has for to compare http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

cheers,

Takata_
12-18-2004, 07:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sig.Hirsch:
Takata , FW-190 A9 in August 44 ist impossible
production began in 10-44 ....
they must have been wrong in your sources or they received prototypes or my two books are wrong . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fw 190A-9 deliveries from factory (Jagdverb√¬§nde):

Stab./JG54 &gt; 1
II./JG54 &gt; 4
08.1944* Résultat &gt; 5

II./JG1 &gt; 1
Stab./JG3 &gt; 3
IV./JG54 &gt; 4
II./JG6 &gt; 2
II./JG54 &gt; 1
II./JG26 &gt; 7
Stab./JG1 &gt; 1
I./JG11 &gt; 8
I./JG26 &gt; 7
Stab./JG54 &gt; 2
09.1944 Résultat &gt; 36

I./JG26 &gt; 20
Stab./JG26 &gt; 3
II./JG301 &gt; 6
I./JG54 &gt; 6
I./JG2 &gt; 13
Stab./JG3 &gt; 1
Stab./JG301 &gt; 7
Stab./JG54 &gt; 2
I./JG11 &gt; 2
IV./JG54 &gt; 14
II./JG54 &gt; 4
Stab./JG2 &gt; 1
III./JG2 &gt; 6
I./JG1 &gt; 4
II./JG26 &gt; 18
I./JG301 &gt; 68
10.1944 Résultat &gt; 175

And...
Fw 190A-9 deliveries from factory (Jagdverb√¬§nde)
in november/december:

11.1944 Résultat &gt; 85
12.1944 Résultat &gt; 80

* 08.1944 datas are not complete as many records from Luftflotte 2 were lost or incomplete due to retreat from France.

- No Fw 190A-9 losses are recorded in 08.1944
- II./JG6 has lost two Fw 190A-9 in 09.1944 (non combat)
- II./JG54 has lost three Fw 190A-9 in 09.1944 (combat)
- I./JG26 has lost two Fw 190A-9 in 09.19444 (non combat)

Do not say it's impossible because it doesn't match the written datas in your hand. It should be possible to check about the jadggeschwader losses and see if they have been recorded as Fw 190A-9 losses too.

Takata.

Sig.Hirsch
12-18-2004, 07:39 AM
Ok , so the A9 came earlier than i thought , interesting
thank you for your infos Takata ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Takata_
12-18-2004, 08:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sig.Hirsch:
Also the Dora first arrived in operational units in July-August 1944 for test, sources : Focke Wulf FW 190 - Ta 152, Entwicklung-Technik-Einsatz by H.Nowarra. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Before 09.1944, I can't find any Fw 190D-9 on-hand in any Jagdgeschwader. Maybe your sources are refering to some Erprobungskommando (test unit) wilch is not a combat unit.

Schedule of deliveries for Fw 109D-9 to combat units from factory:

09.1944
- III./JG54 &gt; 18

10.1944
- III./JG54 &gt; 45

11.1944
- Stab./JG2 &gt; 1
- II./JG26 &gt; 55
- III./JG54 &gt; 20
Total 76

12.1944
- III./JG2 &gt; 49
- Stab./JG2 &gt; 2
- I./JG2 &gt; 54
- Stab./JG26 &gt; 2
- II./JG26 &gt; 11
- I./JG26 &gt; 62
- III./JG26 &gt; 5
- Stab./JG27 &gt; 2
- II./JG301 &gt; 21
- Stab./JG4 &gt; 2
- III./JG54 &gt; 4
Total 214

My datas are including the following Jagdgeschwaders in wilch Fw190s' were in service at this time:
JG1, JG2, JG3, JG4, JG5, JG6, JG11, JG26, JG27, JG51, JG52, JG54, JG76, JG300, JG301 and JG302 + Jagdgruppe 10 and Sturmstaffel.

No Fw 190D-9 were in service in any Schlachtgeschwader.

I didn't check for Aufskl√¬§rungsverb√¬§nde.

Takata.