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slappedsilly
03-13-2007, 04:12 PM
Why is it that today all pc games take 900 years to make? It seems that any game I look forward to takes for freekin ever. Anyone in here know enough about programming to know? What takes place in a game dev in a week, a month, a year? It would seem that it wouldn't be feasable to take so long.

MEGILE
03-13-2007, 04:15 PM
I've been waiting for Team Fortress two, since the great schism of 1054

ploughman
03-13-2007, 04:31 PM
Odd isn't it. Sow'll've taken longer than WWII to produce (although WWII was in pre-production for longer of course). That Thunder thing about the Falklands war's still grinding away (nice new vids of a SHAR and a Vulcan dropping bombs on their site) and that's been going for years.

Avont29
03-13-2007, 04:57 PM
well it takes a lot to make a game. you need the ppl like 2d artists, modellers, voice actors, programmers, animators, etc. etc. it takes months to design a game, then to put it all together by the programmer takes a while, games like grand theft auto, tema fortress, even il2 sturmovik, may be up to a million lines of source code by something called c++


well i dont know if oleg uses c++ for this game for sure


but yea, its a lot, and its not easy

im making a 2d space pong clone right now in c++, and its like 400+ lines of code and all i've really done is the menus

FritzGryphon
03-13-2007, 05:02 PM
I don't know about the programming end, but I know the time to make the art increases significantly with time.

It used to be that fighters were designed and mass produced in 5 years, and they each cost $50,000. Now a fighter is developed for 20 years, and costs 50 million.

slappedsilly
03-13-2007, 05:12 PM
I'm in the construction industry and if a contractor had a 20-30% time over run, people would be fired and the company may not survive. But that seems normal in the gaming industry. I always said I wish I'd been a meteoroligist and could get the weather wrong with no consequence. But, game programmers seem to have that beat. They get to mess with games all day and deadlines don't mean anything.

WB_Outlaw
03-13-2007, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by slappedsilly:
But, game programmers seem to have that beat. They get to mess with games all day and deadlines don't mean anything.

That's like saying that chefs working for high dollar restaurants have it great b/c all they do is hang around and eat free food.

--Outlaw.

Monty_Thrud
03-13-2007, 06:19 PM
Are the teams alot smaller now the boom period of PC games is over?.

It feels like i've been waiting ages for "Knights of the Sea"...and "Knights of the Sky"...and...and that Bill - Storm in a D-cup or whatever its called...if they dare to release them at the same time...i'll..i'll...um.

PF_Coastie
03-13-2007, 06:29 PM
games like grand theft auto, tema fortress, even il2 sturmovik, may be up to a million lines of source code by something called c++

A while back (way before 46) Oleg said there were more than 3 million lines of code in this game! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Thats just insane.

VMF-214_HaVoK
03-13-2007, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by Monty_Thrud:
Are the teams alot smaller now the boom period of PC games is over?.

It feels like i've been waiting ages for "Knights of the Sea"...and "Knights of the Sky"...and...and that Bill - Storm in a D-cup or whatever its called...if they dare to release them at the same time...i'll..i'll...um.

Every PC magazine I read say different. The boom is just beginning my friend!

A good game can take 18 months to create. A good sim will take much longer.

slappedsilly
03-13-2007, 06:36 PM
That's like saying that chefs working for high dollar restaurants have it great b/c all they do is hang around and eat free food.

If the chefs took so long, you'd get up and leave. I certainly don't want any half baked games, but it just amazes me how long they take. Maybe the dev teams get to stage to start testing and play lan games all day. Now I could see that happening and that could be understandable. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
I guess small dev teams would be a cause too. Like Monty said, they will release 4-6 great games at once! (Monty your waiting on same ones as me.)

XyZspineZyX
03-13-2007, 06:40 PM
They used to say this about cars and car repairs. Hold true for many things:

"You can get it

1) cheap
2) right
3) on time

You're free to pick any two on the list, but we might be out of #1"

crazyivan1970
03-13-2007, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by slappedsilly:
Why is it that today all pc games take 900 years to make? It seems that any game I look forward to takes for freekin ever. Anyone in here know enough about programming to know? What takes place in a game dev in a week, a month, a year? It would seem that it wouldn't be feasable to take so long.

Then more complex games become, then longer we wait. Kinda makes sense to me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

slappedsilly
03-13-2007, 08:26 PM
You're free to pick any two on the list, but we might be out of #1"

"You can get it

1) cheap
2) right
3) on time

You're free to pick any two on the list, but we might be out of #1"
[quote]They used to say this about cars and car repairs. Hold true for many things:

Yep! Thats true in the construction business too!

VW-IceFire
03-13-2007, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by slappedsilly:
Why is it that today all pc games take 900 years to make? It seems that any game I look forward to takes for freekin ever. Anyone in here know enough about programming to know? What takes place in a game dev in a week, a month, a year? It would seem that it wouldn't be feasable to take so long.
Its been like that for a while...the waits for several games like C&C2 (waaay back) and WarCraft III were huge. StarCraft took years. Ummm...can't think of any non-RTS games at the moment to mention.

Anyways with huge codebases and large amounts of hardware that need to be tested games take a long time. I think Oleg is taking his time, the new engine will do quite allot from what we've seen, far more than even the basic confines of a flight sim...so I think its more than just the game but its a foundation of a business plan. I can see this taking a while.

DKoor
03-13-2007, 08:36 PM
I guess time-wise it all downs to money.

Hypothetically speaking:
We could have SoW within 30 days, maybe less, counting from now.
If they pay 100 more programmers that will work hard on it.
But then it isn't going to make any profit... I suppose.
Million people are waiting for job to be done while 40-50 are actually working.
Odd isn't it?

That's just a little illustration... don't take it literally http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

MrMojok
03-13-2007, 08:47 PM
But the Kings of gaming vaporware have to be Duke Nukem Forever (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Nukem_Forever) and S.T.A.L.K.E.R (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.T.A.L.K.E.R.:_Shadow_of_Chernobyl).

Although I hear S.T.A.L.K.E.R has finally gone gold.

M_Gunz
03-13-2007, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by slappedsilly:
Why is it that today all pc games take 900 years to make? It seems that any game I look forward to takes for freekin ever. Anyone in here know enough about programming to know? What takes place in a game dev in a week, a month, a year? It would seem that it wouldn't be feasable to take so long.

When you get older it won't seem long at all. In fact I have seen there is a direct relation
between how fast time flies by and age. Your 900 years seems like only a few to me and I'm
not eligible to join AARP yet. IL2 took 4 years before the first release and seems like it
will be under 6 more to final patch and how many extra planes, maps, etc? That's only a
decade. Some people are still playing sims released almost or even before 1997 that ain't
nothin compared so IMO we have more than 10 years worth of sim in the IL2 series.

TAW_Oilburner
03-13-2007, 09:51 PM
Take it from somebody who does software development as a large part of my job. The reason any application takes 5 times as long and 10 times as much to create is simple:

Project Managers and their flock of idiot accomplices.

BSS_AIJO
03-14-2007, 10:03 AM
hey all..

Ok.. I have spent time in regular software development land and working at a game studio.

There are plenty of good reasons why game development is ugly stuff.. Especially PC gaming where direct X and the hardware heck even the OS are very fluid moving targets. I worked in a shop that did console games. The source + all the media for a single console game takes up well over a terrabyte of space during development... Granted revision controll has plenty to do with that. But still the source to build a game is _huge_ thats just one of the problems. During engine upgrades on the scale of SOW where a whole new engine is pretty much being built from scratch there is a fantastic amount of work going into just the engine. Then they still have to write all of the tools that will be used to actually make a game out of the engine. SOW and most modern engine games have very very high poly count levels. Thats good for us because it makes things look really nice and makes things more immersive by having more objects we can interact with in game. It sucks for the 3d guys because they have more object to make and they are more detailed on top of it. Worse yet objects might end up having to be remade to change their poly counts to either speed up a level or pretty up a level... Some of these changes wont happen until play testing.
Part of the problem is that folks think that game development is the same as devloping an office application, like a new billing system. But as tiime goes forward game development has had less to do with technology ( programming ) and more to do with entertainment. So, think of a games studios development process as being more like a movie studios and you will be closer to being on track. Now in the entertainment industry responding to last minute changes though a pain is not as big of a pain as it is in game development. In game developement what seems like a small incignificant change might require huge ammounts of work to make happen. Lots of time can get lost there. Also, unlike the movies or regular software the devlopers are often stuck scratch building new things like the AI engine to run the non players. Or they are stuck taking a physics engine that might have been great in the last version and having to make it better. On the art side of things you migth have a great animation of a helicopter getting blown out of the air and its looks really real. Now the art director is telling you that its not good enough and you have to make it look cool as well.... 8^)

As for Storms Of war.. Yea there are times where I am dying to have it in my hands right now... But lets face it.. There has been a lot of polishing off development for Il2 going on while they are writing a new much much better engine, and modeling a boatload of objects. When the day comes where we are vandalizing london from the air or shooting down the guys trying to vandalize London from the air I will be glad to finally have it but ok with having waited for a product that does not suck..

That is of course assuming the Storms of War does not end up sucking.. But I have a pretty strong feelign that it will instead make at least me pretty happy...



BSS_AIJO

Worf101
03-14-2007, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by MrMojok:
But the Kings of gaming vaporware have to be Duke Nukem Forever (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Nukem_Forever) and S.T.A.L.K.E.R (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.T.A.L.K.E.R.:_Shadow_of_Chernobyl).

Although I hear S.T.A.L.K.E.R has finally gone gold.

Ha, ha ha... sniff... chortle... He said "Duke Nukem Forever!!" Bwah ha ha ha!!!

Da "stop it you're killing me" Worfster