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JV44Rall
07-10-2005, 03:15 PM
I was watching the History Channel's "Secret Russian Aircraft of WWII" and they said that the only Russian pilots to fly jet aircraft in combat in WWII were the pilots of the Free Russian Air Force, who flew Me 262s for the Axis. They program claimed the planes were marked with the colors of Imperial Russia and showed an illustation of a 262 with red, blue and white rondels on the wings and a triangular red, blue and white marking on the fuselage.

Has anyone ever heard of the Free Russian Air Force? Did they fly 262s?

Sounded kind of strange to me. I Googled the FRAF and got no hits.

TIA

arcadeace
07-10-2005, 03:28 PM
Just to bump, I saw the same thing?

Russian efforts in jet engine technology were very impressive, it seemed to me every bit that of the Germans. It was a fascinating program.

Heliopause
07-10-2005, 03:49 PM
Dont believe everything they say.....

F0_Dark_P
07-10-2005, 04:04 PM
sure that sounds strange, but in general why dont you guys belive Discovery/History chanel?

they have historians that talking on those pograms, professional people like professors

Bula
07-10-2005, 06:37 PM
"...professional people like professors."

LOL. Have you ever been enrolled in the humanities or social sciences at the graduate level in the US?

AznKamiKazeKid
07-10-2005, 09:06 PM
Never heard of the free Russian Air Force, but i know that the Russians did manage to get their hands on 1 or 2 Me 262s after the collapse of the Nazi. So i guess there's some truth in it.

darkhorizon11
07-10-2005, 09:20 PM
Its actually the Russian Liberation Army or Russian Peoples Liberation Army, the Germans called them the Ostenbattalion. Two divisions fought on the Eastern Front seeing combat in Warsaw and Belorussia. Many were killed in allied air raids. Only about 400 surrendered to the Western Allies and survived the war. The rest were force to surrender to their countrymen and were promptly executed.

I'm not famaliar with any air operations although I did see that special on the History Channel. This is all I found on RLA aircraft in WWII. Just a picture of a 109.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta/jgaxis.htm

VW-IceFire
07-10-2005, 09:22 PM
I heard there was a Russian army operating within the German one that fought against the Soviets and that there were pilots too...but I knew nothing of this.

Enforcer572005
07-10-2005, 10:31 PM
on that link its got a style of a cross of sorts...i would think the ww1 style roundel would cause some severe id problems.

AerialTarget
07-11-2005, 12:37 AM
History channel has a well-deserved reputation for spouting tripe. To one who is very well informed in matters of sword history, the tripe is very evident. From Tom Cruise flatly stating, "The katana is the best sword ever, period" to "historians" claiming that medieval swords usually weighed at least twenty pounds, the madness prevails.

Fehler
07-11-2005, 04:01 AM
Yep, I agree Aerial Target...

On one show, they said the P-38 was a good looking plane! Absolute tripe!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LStarosta
07-11-2005, 04:25 AM
Well, it's a good thing the air war wasn't fought with swords then, isn't it, Aerial?

Kocur_
07-11-2005, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by F0_Dark_P:
sure that sounds strange, but in general why dont you guys belive Discovery/History chanel?

they have historians that talking on those pograms, professional people like professors

Those professionals sometimes say incredible rubbish! Just repeating something one of them said without checking...
Example: it could be heard on Discovery Channel that LW destroyed entire polish AF on airfields on 1st sept. 39. A professor said thathttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. Truth is LW didnt destroy a single polish operational combat aircraft from 1st line units on ground in first days of sept.39.
Nope, one shouldnt belive in everything those DC "experts" say. So often they "discover" things never in existance http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Yoxford_Boy
07-11-2005, 09:54 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Liberation_Army

Kocur_
07-11-2005, 10:41 AM
The greatest supporter of the idea of creating combat volunteer forces from ex-soviet soldiers was col. Claus von Stauffenberg.

THE Stauffenbeg (20.07.1944)


All ROA soldiers who gave up to western allies were given away to soviets. All were killed.
In fact in soviet military code giving up, becoming POW, was an act of treason. All soviet POW's who were "liberated" in POW camps or concentration camps by Red Army were immidietly procecuted and sentenced to 25 years in Gulag.

PBNA-Boosher
07-11-2005, 03:09 PM
The History Channel is never good at any involved detail history. I've found faults in quite a few of their programs. They're good for peaking interest, not for detail.

The only really good show I've seen is "Days that Shook the World"

Zeus-cat
07-11-2005, 04:16 PM
The History Channel likes to do a lot of "what if" scenarios that ignore many historical facts. The "Secret Planes of..." programs are really bad about this. Listen real carefully and you will hear them say "what if..." about something completely ridiculous and then they spend 15 minutes telling you what could have happened if the "what if" thing had really happened. Info-tainment at its best - or worst.

Zeus-cat

Kazimierz.
07-11-2005, 04:37 PM
I gave up believing the tv when I heard an EXPERT on wildlife (Attenborough) say the reason an owl flies silently, is not so the prey cant hear him, but so the owl can hear the prey.....
If I had been there, I would have laughed in his face.

Waldo.Pepper
07-11-2005, 05:59 PM
I gave up believing the tv when I heard an EXPERT on wildlife (Attenborough) say the reason an owl flies silently, is not so the prey cant hear him, but so the owl can hear the prey.....
If I had been there, I would have laughed in his face.

I don't know jack about birds, but why is that wrong? It sounds (no pun intended) plausible, so why is it wrong?

noshens
07-11-2005, 09:54 PM
This site is in russian oh well
http://ostbataillon.fromru.com/index1.htm
This guy is especially interesting
http://i2.cashmoneyuploads.com/tn/10126.jpg (http://www.cashmoneyuploads.com/view/v10126/)

LStarosta
07-11-2005, 10:23 PM
I watch the History Channel when I get sick of watching Fox News.

wayno7777
07-11-2005, 10:29 PM
The reason for silent flight is the type and shape of their flight feathers...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/Owl9-22-03h.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/He219_1.jpg

Enforcer572005
07-11-2005, 11:18 PM
there is one pretty accurate show, and its the best one on there by far....Mail Call....Gunny Ermy knows his stuff pretty well usually. i try not to miss it. all sorts of neat stuff i wasnt familiar with , and other stuff i am. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Also, Dale Dye's programs are excellent....like the conquerers. always best to have combat vets doing that kind of stuff.

and did any1 see how bad they chopped up "battle of the Bulge" a couple of nights ago? man, they cut out so many scenes that were important, including the best scene in the movie; the tank commanders singing Panzerlied. I love that. they also cut the part where col hessler decides to take the fuel depot with 15 tigers.....just goes to them on the way in thier M47s/Tigers. they always cut up movies even worse than ted turner does. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

flakwagen
07-12-2005, 12:54 AM
I've never heard of the free russian air force. I have heard of the Ostbatallion. They participated in some grizzly war crimes and various legitimate anti-partisan operations. I think they were involved in the supression of a ghetto uprising or two- maybe the famous Warsaw uprising. I am not sure. They didn't make a distinction between unarmed civilians and partisans. Of course I probably heard about this on the History Channel. Your mileage may vary, etc.

Flak

Friendly_flyer
07-12-2005, 01:51 AM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I gave up believing the tv when I heard an EXPERT on wildlife (Attenborough) say the reason an owl flies silently, is not so the prey cant hear him, but so the owl can hear the prey.....


I don't know jack about birds, but why is that wrong? It sounds (no pun intended) plausible, so why is it wrong? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, it isn't wrong as much as incomplete. Nocturnal animals like mice and night active owls (some owls are diurnal, mind you) rely heavily on hearing. Seeing a small, grey-brown creature against a grey-brown, uneven background in the dead of night is practically impossible, even for an owl. Owls find the mice by hearing tem. Had owls had noisy feathers (like a hawk or an eagle) it would bout startle the mouse and be unable to locate it. Owl's night vision is for not running into trees while hunting.

To translate this to an IL2 related situation, one may say that the reason night fighters turn of their instrument lights are so that they may better discover the faint light of enemy exhaust ports and at the same time not give themselves away to enemy gunners.

Skarphol
07-12-2005, 01:53 AM
Originally posted by Kocur_:
In fact in soviet military code giving up, becoming POW, was an act of treason. All soviet POW's who were "liberated" in POW camps or concentration camps by Red Army were immidietly procecuted and sentenced to 25 years in Gulag.

This is not entirely correct according to Anthony Bevor (the author of great books like "Stalingrad" and "Berlin - the downfall 1945". Many liberated prisoners were sentenced to Gulag, but as the Red Army closed in on Berlin they liberated more and more captured russian soliders. These soliders were put back into the fighting again.

Skarphol