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View Full Version : Prop Pitch; Prop Feather; Supercharger; Magnetos; Mixture; and Engine Mgmt?



Wild.Bill.Kelso
08-11-2007, 07:26 AM
* What's the difference between Prop Pitch, and Prop Feather? I thought they were the same, but the game lets you assign different keys to each.

* Is there an option to have your aircraft have a 'Smoke' trail? I have it in my notes, but cannot find it now in the Controls Options. Maybe I'm mistaken?

* Do you use:
- Magnetos - Next/Prev? When/Why?
- SuperCharger - Next/Prev Stage? When/Why?
- Mixture - Increase/Decrease? When/Why?
- Prop Pitch - Increase/Decrease? When/Why?

* What's the best way to Select/Manage Engines? The game gives several options:
- Select/Unselect Engine #
- Select Engine #
- Toggle Left/Right Engines
- Toggle All Engines

Crash_Moses
08-11-2007, 08:13 AM
* What's the difference between Prop Pitch, and Prop Feather? I thought they were the same, but the game lets you assign different keys to each.

Prop pitch lets you set your RPMs as a percentage of the total. i.e. 80% prop pitch is roughly 80% of your max RPMs.

Feather Prop turns the prop so it causes the least amount of drag. Use this when your engine has died and you want the best glide speed. It's handy on twin engine planes when you still have one good engine and think you might make it home.

* Is there an option to have your aircraft have a 'Smoke' trail? I have it in my notes, but cannot find it now in the Controls Options. Maybe I'm mistaken?

It's called 'Toggle Wingtip Smoke'. The default key is T.

* Do you use:
- Magnetos - Next/Prev? When/Why?

Not I. Really unnecessary in the game IMHO.

- SuperCharger - Next/Prev Stage? When/Why?

This is for high altitude flying. There's a chart around somewhere for the different planes that have this. Generally you switch supercharger stages around 10,000ft or so. Not sure for planes with three levels. In the SBD I watch my manifold pressure and when it drops below 30 I usually switch.

- Mixture - Increase/Decrease? When/Why?

As you climb in altitude the air thins. Eventually you get to a point where you're getting more fuel than air and flooding the engine. Prop mixture changes the air to fuel mixture ratio to balance it out. Usually 80% to 100% is all you'll need although some folks like to use 120% down low for maximum power at takeoff. If you fly really, really, really, high you might have to set it at 60% or even 40% depending on the aircraft.

- Prop Pitch - Increase/Decrease? When/Why?

The simplest explanation is this is like the transmission on a car. This isn't exactly true but it works for our purposes. By reducing prop pitch you can operate your engine at lower RPMs and still maintain a relatively high speed thus reducing fuel usage and heat. Best used while cruising to keep temps down. In combat bump it back up to 100%.

* What's the best way to Select/Manage Engines? The game gives several options:
- Select/Unselect Engine #
- Select Engine #
- Toggle Left/Right Engines
- Toggle All Engines[/QUOTE]

I only use 'Select Engine' and 'Select All'. In the PBJ I select engine one and start it, then I select engine 2 and start it and then I hit select all. I don't touch it again unless I need to use the fire extinguiser or feather a prop on a dead engine.

smatchimo
08-11-2007, 09:43 AM
Thanx for the info. been playing a couple of years and it still helped me quite a bit.


Cheers!

Wild.Bill.Kelso
08-11-2007, 10:01 AM
Thanks a lot Crash. I also have been playing for a few years, but never really understood these well.

I assume you need to have Complex Engine Management 'on' in the Difficulty Options for these to respond in the game?

I also select an Engine to start each one, then select all. But have not used the Fire Extinguisher yet.

The main reason that I am asking these questions, is because I am updating my IL2/PF profile for TouchBuddy, and adding buttons for Flight, Combat, and Bombing as you can see here. I have also been working on a plugin to calculate the TAS for bombing. I will add some nice graphics to it when it is working correctly. I was also playing with making it work by just touch and dragging your finger to increase the Altitude and IAS, which works pretty well so far.

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/9123/67041111dv0.th.jpg (http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=67041111dv0.jpg) http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/4986/43996423yf2.th.jpg (http://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=43996423yf2.jpg)

Crash_Moses
08-11-2007, 10:25 AM
Pretty slick http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Yes, CEM needs to be turned on.

Wild.Bill.Kelso
08-15-2007, 11:56 AM
I watched the Norden Bombsight Training video by Joe90 which was very straight to the point and easy to understand. In it he says to adjust the left/right using the Rudder Trim only, because it will not turn off autopilot. But what about the Right/Left Sight controls? I thought these were for adjusting right/left. Are these not as good, or turn off the autopilot maybe??

Snodrvr
08-22-2007, 06:36 AM
The difference is your Rudder trim will actually move the plane, I think moving the bombsight right/left only changes your view through the site, not the actual orientation of the aeroplane.

I would be very interested to know the use for bombsight left/right, as to me it's always seemed kinda useless.

Wild.Bill.Kelso
08-22-2007, 07:01 AM
I was thinking the bombsight left/right may be for an adjustment for wind?

Pigeon_
08-22-2007, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by Wild.Bill.Kelso:
I was thinking the bombsight left/right may be for an adjustment for wind?

Sounds logical to me...

Now, to get back on topic... In some planes I can't feather the props, regulate mixture and/or set supercharger stage. In the Hurricane II fo example I can't set mixture lower than 100%. Why is this?

Wild.Bill.Kelso
08-22-2007, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by Pigeon_:
Now, to get back on topic... In some planes I can't feather the props, regulate mixture and/or set supercharger stage. In the Hurricane II fo example I can't set mixture lower than 100%. Why is this? I had this same problem last night. You need to have Complex Engine Management 'on' in the Difficulty Options for these to respond in the game. I did not have this on, and when I turned it on, the planes responded to the keycommands for these.

I don't know what Magnetos are, or what they are for. But when I set them to 'None', all engines stopped. In some aircraft, I could not restart the engine(s), even if I reset Magnetos back to the default (1&2). Can anybody explain Magnetos?

Pigeon_
08-22-2007, 12:16 PM
CEM has always been on in my settings...

Pigeon_
08-22-2007, 12:19 PM
Oh, and for Wild Bill... Magneto's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magneto_%28electrical%29)

Wild.Bill.Kelso
08-22-2007, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by Pigeon_:
Oh, and for Wild Bill... Magneto's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magneto_%28electrical%29) Thanks. Now I understand what they are. I wonder if that button I press to light my gas grill is a magneto? Hmm...

But what good is it in the game to set it to 1 or 2, or None? Seems like you'd always be better to have them all on all the time. Like Crash_Moses said, "Really unnecessary in the game IMHO.". I wonder why they have keycommands for them in the game?

Crash_Moses
08-22-2007, 01:49 PM
Magnetos are there for immersion I think. To make us full real chaps happy.

Yes, the right and left sight angles are for correcting for crosswind and for adjusting if you're a little off course. I've never actually used them and I think they serve the same purpose as the magnetos.

I keep meaning to experiment with them but I never seem to find the time.

Pigeon_
08-22-2007, 01:49 PM
Stop wondering and live with it! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

JimmyBlonde
08-25-2007, 03:45 AM
Great post Crash_Moses, very helpful I am a recent convert to FEM and wondering what all the stuff does to the big magic box that spins the prop.

Thanks

Skycat_2
08-25-2007, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by Pigeon_:
In some planes I can't feather the props, regulate mixture and/or set supercharger stage. In the Hurricane II fo example I can't set mixture lower than 100%. Why is this?

According to Hardball's aircraft viewer, only about four of the fighters have 'feathering' props. Ability to 'feather' is usually (but not always) found in the multi-engined planes. You might be referring to adjustable prop 'pitch' which is more common in WWII-era planes, but this also is not a feature of all planes of that era, especially not in the early war designs.

Superchargers are the same way. Some designs didn't have superchargers while others had them but in normal operation they were automatically controlled. The Thunderbolt, for example, had an <STRIKE>electronically</STRIKE> adjusted 'waste gate' that allowed increasingly more exhaust pressure into ducts to the rear of the fuselage as the plane climbed to higher altitudes. This exhaust back pressure powered a turbine supercharger that would spin faster as the plane increased altitude into thinner air. The turbine compressed the density of the air before sending it forward to the engine. In the Aircraft Guide that comes with 1946 there are altitudes for changing the supercharger stages but in the game you can't manually change them; I assume that the flight model is based on automatic control of the supercharger. The cockpit panels in the game don't even have the Turbo Overspeed warning light which were historically in <STRIKE>all</STRIKE> P-47Ds.

Similarly, real Thunderbolt pilots had automatic mixture control settings available to them and normally flew using Auto Rich or Auto Lean. I believe that in the game the flight model simply assumes an automatic mixture control setting is being used and thus the sim pilot can't control the mixture percentage. Also, real Thunderbolt pilots could fly with the 'boost' (manifold pressure) control lever either separated or bound to the throttle control by a locking mechanism, but in IL-2 it seems that adjustable boost is not available so it must be modeled as linked to the throttle. This only leaves propellor pitch as adjustable which would be used for better fuel economy once the aircraft is at a cruising altitude and speed.

I really don't know much about the Hurricane so I can't comment on it specifically.

**Edit: I posted some erroneous information above about the P-47's turbine supercharger. I don't want to bump this thread unnecessarily, but I feel it is important to amend the record in case anybody stumbles on this later.

First, the waste-gate is not electrically controlled but rather (on most P-47 variants except late N models) it is manually controlled using the Boost lever located on the throttle quadrant along with the Throttle, Propellor and Mixture. In normal operation the pilot advances the boost lever in conjunction with the throttle to achieve the desired manifold pressure. The N-model's training manual recommends using the boost lever during formation flying for fine speed adjustments and the throttle lever for abrupt speed changes. Regardless, in IL-2's Thunderbolt cockpits the Boost lever never moves from the closed position (as an animation) so there is no visible way to know how or if boost is being accounted for as a separate variable in the FM.

At Shockwave, the developers of the Wings of Power Thunderbolt circumvented FS9's lack of a seperate turbo control by animating the Boost lever as subordinate to the Throttle lever. Their rationale is that in the real aircraft the Boost and Throttle controls are used together to achieve a desired manifold pressure for a given operating condition. I assume that Oleg's flight models have taken similar liberties.

I also stated that the Boost and Throttle could be linked in the real aircraft. This is true, but I misunderstood this to be the normal operating procedure. The Air Force actually advised against using the link in all but a few situations (see AAF Manual 50-5, dated September 1945).

I stated that all 'D' models were equipped with a turbine overspeed light, but subsequent review of photographic evidence suggests this is not true. An early P-47 manual dated January, 1943 annotates the turbine tachometer guage but not the overspeed indicator lamp; AAF Manual 50-5 says that early aircraft may be equipped with either the tachometer or the overspeed lamp but that both devices are installed in the D-25 series and later blocks. When the Throttle is full forward, the pilot uses the Boost lever to keep the supercharger turbine speed below a maximum speed of 18,250 rpm.

***Edit #2: I just checked, and both of Thunderbolt cockpit styles in IL-2 have a turbine tachometer guage. The needle on it moves during operation so I guess the turbine supercharger is modeled and is adjusted automatically as part of the throttle.

msalama
08-26-2007, 12:58 AM
but in the game you can't manually change them

Sorry, but that's not true. I have my hi/lo blower mapped as Ctrl-S & Shift-S, and it works just fine in any AC with a manually controlled supercharger...

Skycat_2
08-26-2007, 02:17 AM
Originally posted by msalama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">but in the game you can't manually change them

Sorry, but that's not true. I have my hi/lo blower mapped as Ctrl-S & Shift-S, and it works just fine in any AC with a manually controlled supercharger... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I was referring specifically to the P-47 series as they are modelled in the game. If you can manually change supercharger speeds in the Thunderbolt, then I stand corrected and I want to know how you did it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Just to be certain, I ensured that my difficulty settings are set on 'Realistic.' Then I tested most of the Allied planes using Quick Mission Builder; on each plane I hit my assigned increase/decrease mixture keys, supercharger previous/next keys, and the the prop pitch increase/decrease keys. Bombers like the A-20 and B-25 have full CEM functionality as do the US Navy fighters. The Corsair's mixture has a minimum of 100% and maximum of 120%. The Mosquito and Beaufighter do not have a manual supercharger control. The Tempest does but it has no mixture control. Seafires and Spitfires have neither. Hurricane Mk.IIs have superchargers but limited mixture control (like the Corsairs); the Hurricane Mk.I does not have superchargers at all.

The American fighters designed for the US Army typically do not have either a manual mixture control or a manual supercharger control; check again the P-38, P-39, P-40, P-47, P-51 and P-63 series.

Soviet planes in the game typically have full CEM. The IL-2 variant I tested did not have manually adjusted supercharger stages however. My testing was not exhaustive though and I'm sure there are other designs that have limited functionality.

Again, I limited my testing to the Allied planes except for a quick run of the Hurricane Mk.I.

msalama
08-26-2007, 03:43 AM
Ah, I see http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif Cheers Skycat.