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XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 09:29 AM
Does anybody know, where were those 5000kg bombs used in real life and how often were they used?
Judging by this game it seems that already one of them could wipe out half of the Helsinki city centre, were (are) they really so devastating. Seem to be minor nuclear explosions.

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 09:29 AM
Does anybody know, where were those 5000kg bombs used in real life and how often were they used?
Judging by this game it seems that already one of them could wipe out half of the Helsinki city centre, were (are) they really so devastating. Seem to be minor nuclear explosions.

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 10:44 AM
They were really used and really had impressive effects, but AFAIK they were not often carried, only for specially designated targets.

Apart from that, I don't have any detailed info, maybe someone who has read the book about the TB-3s and Pe-8s by Kulikov (in french) can help us.

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 11:08 AM
The Pe8 was not really designed to carry such a large bomb, but it still did. To achieve level flight the aircraft had to have a nose-high attitude and a high throttle setting for most of the flight. I've seen pictures of the bombs- they were huge. However, the British used even larger "Blockbuster" bombs in their Lancasters.

To be able to fare well,
To avoid the frustration of misfortune,
That, in this world, is happiness.
-Euripides' Electra

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 02:05 PM
it's really funny how if one Pe-8 drops a 5000 bomb at low altitude, the blast will hurt its wingmen enough for them to drop theirs, and the blast will hurt the other groups, and so on until you get a map full of mushroom clouds and a leveled city if you're lucky http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-McTriggerhappy

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 02:48 PM
I just started flying the P-8 last week. I gust love the 5000lb bomb. The best part is when you drop it on an airfield. Then watch it explode into a mushroom cloud, incineraiting every thing inside it.

I want more! Biger bombs! Eye candy!



Oh God im addicted, please help me.


Ok guy's it's obvios i need help; any sugestions besides lerning how to spell?


Silent out...

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 03:05 PM
the Pe-8 should be player flyable, it really should

-McTriggerhappy

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 03:26 PM
not enough cockpit info to do so


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XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 03:53 PM
VF_310thSilent wrote:
- Oh God im addicted, please help me.
-
-
- Ok guy's it's obvios i need help; any sugestions
- besides lerning how to spell?
-
-

There are some very friendly people who can help you. All you have to do is wear a straight jacket. The best thing is that you get a lovely room, with cushioned walls. You don't even have to work or pay for the accomodation. As well as this you get given special pills which will make you very happy. All that you have to do is run into your local supermarket and shout obscenities, pull food off of the shelves and attack the staff. Its a bargain! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

To be able to fare well,
To avoid the frustration of misfortune,
That, in this world, is happiness.
-Euripides' Electra

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 03:15 AM
hmmmm I know this is way way old, but having just started reading up on some WW2 a/c I can tell you that Lancasters had the Tallboy, which was 5 tonnes and the bigger Grandslam which was 10 tonnes. Grandslams fell supersonically and were bunker buster type bombs, not city killers like the FAB 5000 in FB is. Tallboys were just smaller versions with virtually the same aerodynamics and stuff, They killed the Tirpitz too I think.

Yeah, these weapons were reserved for Lancaster B1 specials. Those same types carried the dam buster bombs and I think (don't quote me on this) that only the 1 squadron flew these modded Lancasters, that being the Dambusters (deffinately don't quote me cause I forgot squadron number). These modded Lancasters mad their upper turret removed too I think and were deformed in flight when moving such a heavy bomb, wings arcing up at wingtips and un-able to climb to full altitude.


MD_FuryFighter


Message Edited on 09/02/0302:16AM by MD_FuryFighter

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 03:58 AM
folks,

I've heard the "not enough information on cockpit" argument concerning the Pe-8.

Well, it's a good point ...

so just make a good cockpit deduced from outside pictures,

toss in a wheel and some generic Russian gauges

and then add a disclaimer that this is the best we can do ... enjoy!


works fer me,

Falcon

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_euro_us_02.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 05:33 AM
EDtheHead6445 wrote:
- There are some very friendly people who can help
- you. All you have to do is wear a straight jacket.
- The best thing is that you get a lovely room, with
- cushioned walls. You don't even have to work or pay
- for the accomodation. As well as this you get given
- special pills which will make you very happy. All
- that you have to do is run into your local
- supermarket and shout obscenities, pull food off of
- the shelves and attack the staff. Its a bargain!

Have you already tested this method?
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

<center>"The show must go on..."<center>
<center>http://www.hobby.ro/roarmy/aviatia/greceanu%20tudor/1.jpg
A 'good' landing is one from which you can walk away. A 'great'
landing is one after which they can use the plane again<center>

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 06:31 AM
VF_310thSilent wrote:
- I just started flying the P-8 last week. I gust love
- the 5000lb bomb.
-
- Silent out...
-

Just to clarify for you. This bomb isn't 5000lb. It's 5000kg which = 11,023lb!!!
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif




Clear skies and tailwinds,
Chuck

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 06:49 AM
Von_Zero wrote:
- EDtheHead6445 wrote:
-- There are some very friendly people who can help
-- you. All you have to do is wear a straight jacket.
-- The best thing is that you get a lovely room, with
-- cushioned walls. You don't even have to work or pay
-- for the accomodation. As well as this you get given
-- special pills which will make you very happy. All
-- that you have to do is run into your local
-- supermarket and shout obscenities, pull food off of
-- the shelves and attack the staff. Its a bargain!
-
- Have you already tested this method?


Now that is a good point.


EDtheHead6445, please tell us if you have performed somthing like this.

Not: even if you make it up, at least it will be a good laugh.

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 06:56 AM
CPS_Talon wrote:
- VF_310thSilent wrote:
-- I just started flying the P-8 last week. I gust love
-- the 5000lb bomb.
--
-- Silent out...



Just to clarify for you. This bomb isn't 5000lb.
- It's 5000kg which = 11,023lb!!!
- <img src="/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif"
- width=16 height=16 border=0


Oops, well that is good news. 11,000lb wow. I will have a very nice sleep to night, thinking of my 5000kg bomb and how much destruction it cause's.

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 07:18 AM
For the purposes of using these in the FMB, does anyone know which kinds of targets the 5000k bombs were used against? Were they used as airfield-denial weapons, to blow out dug in troops, formed up armor positions, etc, or mostly on industrial targets?

Also - does anyone know roughly how many Pe-8s would be sortied on one target at one time? As far as I remember hearing, only 40 odd planes were built in total, so I guess having more than a dozen or so showing up at one time would be fairly improbable.

Anyone?

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 08:29 AM
Yes, that's what I also would like to know.
And was it used only on really rare occasions, so that meeting pe-8s carrying these bombs would be more like a one in a million happening.
Also if used against cities, like somebody said, shouldn't there be more stories about large mushroom clouds covering half of them. Or have I just missed these stories?

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 01:48 PM
As far as I can tell, they where used to knock out bunkers and occasionally, a battleship.


The brits dropped an oversized bomb (I thought 10.000 kilo!!) on a German battleship when it was in a Fjord in norway.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye
shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be
measured to you again.

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XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 02:12 PM
Platypus_1.JaVA wrote:

- The brits dropped an oversized bomb (I thought
- 10.000 kilo!!) on a German battleship when it was in
- a Fjord in norway.


That would have been the Tirpitz ... Sister ship to the Bismark ..

there is footage of this attack..History (not) channel maybe ?

CC

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 02:14 PM
MD_FuryFighter wrote:
- hmmmm I know this is way way old, but having just
- started reading up on some WW2 a/c I can tell you
- that Lancasters had the Tallboy, which was 5 tonnes
- and the bigger Grandslam which was 10 tonnes.
- Grandslams fell supersonically and were bunker
- buster type bombs ......

The bomb would fall at speeds in excess of the sound barrier ???

dont have my nerd calculator handy, but is this possible ?

CC

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 02:32 PM
MD_FuryFighter wrote:
- hmmmm I know this is way way old, but having just
- started reading up on some WW2 a/c I can tell you
- that Lancasters had the Tallboy, which was 5 tonnes
- and the bigger Grandslam which was 10 tonnes.
- Grandslams fell supersonically and were bunker
- buster type bombs, not city killers like the FAB
- 5000 in FB is. Tallboys were just smaller versions
- with virtually the same aerodynamics and stuff, They
- killed the Tirpitz too I think.
-
- Yeah, these weapons were reserved for Lancaster B1
- specials. Those same types carried the dam buster
- bombs and I think (don't quote me on this) that only
- the 1 squadron flew these modded Lancasters, that
- being the Dambusters (deffinately don't quote me
- cause I forgot squadron number). These modded
- Lancasters mad their upper turret removed too I
- think and were deformed in flight when moving such a
- heavy bomb, wings arcing up at wingtips and un-able
- to climb to full altitude.
-
-
- MD_FuryFighter
-

Yes.. squadron was same in dambusting and in "tallboying".
Don't remember number of squadron either..
In dambusting version they removed upper turret, because the weight of (limousine engine that made the barrel like bomb to rotate )
In "tallboy" versions they had to remove front turret and some armor too to be able to fly with this enormous bomb.
They bombed Tirpiz when it was in ALTA-fjord in Norway.
Didn't get direct hits, but one near -miss turned the ship upside down. I have some info at home about planes that took part in dambuster mission and list of planes that bomebed, missed or were shot down. Also in that list are names of pilots who flew Lancasters.

Just let me know if you want to see that list.

Regards

SheerLuck Holmes

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 02:34 PM
VF_310thSilent wrote:
- EDtheHead6445, please tell us if you have performed
- somthing like this.
-
- Not: even if you make it up, at least it will be a
- good laugh.
I haven't actually tried this before. However, it does sound like good fun, and it has excellent benefits. If I ever get into money problems and cannot afford the accomodation, or I get very bored, it might be a good idea /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .

To be able to fare well,
To avoid the frustration of misfortune,
That, in this world, is happiness.
-Euripides' Electra

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 02:40 PM
Hmmm I'm not great at physics or that, but given the weight and the 3km + drop height I'd say that a suitably areodynamic bomb as the Grandslam surely is

http://freespace.virgin.net/ian.bayley/ARTICLES/wallis/grandslam.JPG

http://www.v2rocket.com/start/deployment/earthquake_bomb.jpg

I can safely assume that it could break the sound barrier. As could its Tallboy counterpart. Anyone out there with specific performance of these weapons or any other stats??

MD_FuryFighter

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 03:21 PM
Sorry but my english is not very well...


In war time only 48 FAB 5000 come out .

11 FAB 5000 down of german position in war time.

04.25.1943:Test of German position 1X FAB 5000
05.27.1943:german garnison in MOGILJOW 2X FAB 5000
06.03.1943:Train station in ORJOL 2x FAB 5000
06.12 1943:Battle of Kursk 2X FAB 5000
06.18.1943: " " " " " "
08.??.1943:Helsinki 2XFAB 5000.

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 03:24 PM
EDtheHead6445 wrote:
- VF_310thSilent wrote:
-- EDtheHead6445, please tell us if you have performed
-- somthing like this.
--
-- Not: even if you make it up, at least it will be a
-- good laugh.
- I haven't actually tried this before. However, it
- does sound like good fun, and it has excellent
- benefits. If I ever get into money problems and
- cannot afford the accomodation, or I get very bored,
- it might be a good idea /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .

Lol.

I was just thinking; yup i do that sometimes lol, that in a nut house they give out free drugs.

It's no wonder why some people flip out for no reasone. Free drugs, cant go wronge there.

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 03:27 PM
I know- must seem like a dream to some people. And if you get bored, you can just stop acting mad and you get released (well, perhaps not that easily) /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
There are so many benefits, I can't think of any drawbacks lol.

To be able to fare well,
To avoid the frustration of misfortune,
That, in this world, is happiness.
-Euripides' Electra

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 03:32 PM
MD_FuryFighter wrote:
- Hmmm I'm not great at physics or that, but given the
- weight and the 3km + drop height I'd say that a
- suitably areodynamic bomb as the Grandslam surely is

Wow she is huge, the most butifull bomb i have ever seen.

as i whipe the drule from my chin. Slap, I think my woman is we bit jealus of this bomb.

Can some one legaly marry a bomb?

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 03:42 PM
EDtheHead6445 wrote:
- I know- must seem like a dream to some people. And
- if you get bored, you can just stop acting mad and
- you get released (well, perhaps not that easily)
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
- There are so many benefits, I can't think of any
- drawbacks lol.

lol.

I think thats why so many people choose to stay there. Im starting to wonder if mayby most of the nut cases are actualy normall and are acting nuts just for the benefits.

If i was fed those happy pills i wouldn't want to leave eather.

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 03:42 PM
Ok, thanks for the info. So they were used quite seldom.

Now it makes me wonder where exactly those two bombs fell here in Helsinki, maybe they didn't hit the centre, but fell somewhere on the outskirts (like bombs often did), in Vuosaari maybe? Must have been quite a blast anyway!


namhee wrote:
- Sorry but my english is not very well...
-
-
- In war time only 48 FAB 5000 come out .
-
- 11 FAB 5000 down of german position in war time.
-
- 04.25.1943:Test of German position 1X FAB 5000
- 05.27.1943:german garnison in MOGILJOW 2X FAB 5000
- 06.03.1943:Train station in ORJOL 2x FAB 5000
- 06.12 1943:Battle of Kursk 2X FAB 5000
- 06.18.1943: " " " " " "
- 08.??.1943:Helsinki 2XFAB 5000.
-
-

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 03:43 PM
- Yes.. squadron was same in dambusting and in
- "tallboying".
- Don't remember number of squadron either..
- In dambusting version they removed upper turret,
- because the weight of (limousine engine that made
- the barrel like bomb to rotate )
- In "tallboy" versions they had to remove front
- turret and some armor too to be able to fly with
- this enormous bomb.
- They bombed Tirpiz when it was in ALTA-fjord in
- Norway.
- Didn't get direct hits, but one near -miss turned
- the ship upside down. I have some info at home about
- planes that took part in dambuster mission and list
- of planes that bomebed, missed or were shot down.
- Also in that list are names of pilots who flew
- Lancasters.
-
- Just let me know if you want to see that list.
-
- Regards
-
- SheerLuck Holmes

Hi SheerLuck, if you would post your info on the Dambusters, I'll research a book I'm reading now and maybe we can cross examine out info for some really detailed info. I'll post my stuff tomorrow, for now, its off to bed for me. Salute~~

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 04:09 PM
gorillasika wrote:
- Ok, thanks for the info. So they were used quite
- seldom.
-
- Now it makes me wonder where exactly those two bombs
- fell here in Helsinki, maybe they didn't hit the
- centre, but fell somewhere on the outskirts (like
- bombs often did), in Vuosaari maybe? Must have been
- quite a blast anyway!
-
-
-I think that the best way is to found a History center in
Helsinki.Whit internet is possible to found a home page of
museum or another information center....

Good lock.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 06:59 PM
Tallboy bomb was 21ft long and weighed 12,030lb (approx.5468Kg) so the Lancaster could carry one without modification as its max. bomb load was 14,000lb.
Dropped from 20,000ft it penetrated 90ft into the earth.
In the raid on the Tirpitz 617Sqn dropped their bombs from 14,000ft. Three hit the ship and one was a near miss.

The Grand Slam was 25ft 6in long, 3ft 10in in diameter and weighed 22,000lb (approx.10,000Kg).It was designed to be dropped from 40,000ft with a terminal velosity of 982mph so it would penetrate to a depth of 135ft.
To carry it the Lancaster was stripped of front and midupper turrets all armor and two guns from the rear turret.
Dropped from 16,000ft they managed to blast holes 20ft across through the 23ft thick roofs of the U-boat pens at Brest.

'It is right to be taught, even by an enemy' OVID

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Message Edited on 09/02/0309:25PM by One13

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 07:27 PM
The FAB-5000 weighed 5,216Kg = 11,900lb. The bomb doors of the Pe-8 could not close over it fully.
first use was in April 1943 in a raid on Konigsberg.
The Pe-8's loss rate in 1942 was one for every 103 flights, by 1944 it was one for every 46 flights.
Only five were built in 1944 and last operation was on the night of 1st/2nd August 1944. It was then transfered to transport role.
Info from Soviet combat aircraft of the second world war vol2 by Gordon & Khazanov.

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