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Tristan_129
02-17-2010, 01:08 PM
YOU MANIACS (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/02/17/you-maniacs/)

...

If I were you, you should boycott Ubisoft.

RIGHT NOW!

caswallawn_2k7
02-17-2010, 01:12 PM
well done for posting the exact info every1 already knew about the system.

I've used the new Ubi protection already and I must say I had no problems at all with it.

Windrius
02-17-2010, 01:17 PM
Oh Mai Fakin Gad.

Srsly now I am p1$$ed. Droping out of game????
Yea UBISOFT. You won't get any money from me. I'm gonna play on my neighbours xbox than get kicked out of game every time something happens with my internet.
>=[ NOW I AM MAD!!!
HULK SMASH!!!

M-dahaka
02-17-2010, 01:17 PM
hmmm... I recall a bug in the first AC that froze the game everytime i killed a guard, unless i D/C from the internet. This seems to be the total opposite of that bug xD

Well, that proves it: N00bisoft is under the leadership of stupid monkeys http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Like i said, I normally don't pirate games, and i still won't pirate this one, but if it annoys me to much, i'll just get the crack to get rid of this mess.

Wonderglue
02-17-2010, 01:24 PM
I'm gonna get the game,but i never said i will pay for it,and the DRM sucks,no matter how well it runs it still sucks.

blacktick
02-17-2010, 01:30 PM
Dear UBI,if you are trying to drive yourself out of the PC business with a "good" conscience then do it without ****ing off your customers.

This is the most ******ed DRM I have ever seen and EVERYONE knows internet connection might get cut off from time to time due to multiple reasons,so do you honestly believe this is a good idea?
I was planning on buying Settlers 7,but not Assmuncher 2...seems I can save my money on better games.

One day all this yearly sequel ambition,crappy DRM and casual crap is going to bite you in the *** and that will be the day I laugh and kick you while you are down. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Tiverando
02-17-2010, 04:00 PM
When I learned of the DRM being included I decided I was not going to buy the game as long as it is still present. If they remove the online requirement then I will likely pick it up, but as long as they leave this requirement I will boycott it. Ubisoft can consider me a lost sale for this and any future games I'm interested in that use a similar system. I will also avoid the console versions.

Abeonis
02-17-2010, 04:04 PM
This new DRM feature is a stupid idea, especially considering that most poeple who do not have an internet connection wouldn't even know about this new approach; they'll buy the game and then find out they cannot play it.

caswallawn_2k7
02-17-2010, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Abeonis:
This new DRM feature is a stupid idea, especially considering that most poeple who do not have an internet connection wouldn't even know about this new approach; they'll buy the game and then find out they cannot play it.
and that would be their own fault for not reading the game box or taking note as all sites selling the game say a internet connection is needed to play.

it works on the same theory as the people who buy games even tho their PC cant run them, then blame the developer/publisher for their inability to read.

Wonderglue
02-17-2010, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by caswallawn_2k7:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abeonis:
This new DRM feature is a stupid idea, especially considering that most poeple who do not have an internet connection wouldn't even know about this new approach; they'll buy the game and then find out they cannot play it.
and that would be their own fault for not reading the game box or taking note as all sites selling the game say a internet connection is needed to play.

it works on the same theory as the people who buy games even tho their PC cant run them, then blame the developer/publisher for their inability to read. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

True,but it's still a stupid idea and nothing is gonna change that.

Abeonis
02-17-2010, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by Wonderglue:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by caswallawn_2k7:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abeonis:
This new DRM feature is a stupid idea, especially considering that most poeple who do not have an internet connection wouldn't even know about this new approach; they'll buy the game and then find out they cannot play it.
and that would be their own fault for not reading the game box or taking note as all sites selling the game say a internet connection is needed to play.

it works on the same theory as the people who buy games even tho their PC cant run them, then blame the developer/publisher for their inability to read. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

True,but it's still a stupid idea and nothing is gonna change that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed; I don't see it catching on.

User405
02-17-2010, 08:00 PM
This Has Gotta Be the Stupidest MOVE I have seen a /game/dev make in a long time

Don't They realize the People will just Pirate the game instead I personally will buy it but ill be using a Crack to play so I won't need to deal with this crap
Cracks work just as well with legal copys at they do pirated http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TheHeeyyy
02-17-2010, 08:06 PM
I really hope Ubisoft doesn't go through with this DRM. They will loose A LOT of sales from people who refuse to buy this great game due to this horrible DRM (me included). This DRM will make legitimate PC gamers suffer, while pirates get more freedom and options to play-it.

rain89c
02-17-2010, 09:00 PM
in my honest opinion and a lot of others also, the drm wont decrease piracy, if anything at all, it would ENCOURAGE piracy.
because
1)people who pirate will STILL pirate anyway, they did not plan on buying the game from the first place. so this does not even affect them at all.
2)this will only hurt the loyal customers who actually BUYS the product.


one reason ubisoft made this drm, might be because they believed this drm will not be crack-able. and if its not crackable people will have to actually BUY the game to play it. well, i dont know about this one, time will tell though.

LiveMaI
02-17-2010, 10:42 PM
As someone who lives in an area where the internet is either slow, laggy, or spotty (dial-up, sattelite, and terrestrial radio, respectively) I find the always online requirement of the DRM to be the deal-breaker. Save games not being stored locally is the other major issue I have with this DRM system (goes hand-in-hand with unreliable internet service.)

TL;DR: Having read the article linked in the OP, I've decided to not buy AC2.

ARandomKid
02-17-2010, 10:54 PM
I'm going to quote this comment that is pretty much what I intended to say all along to save myself some time:


"I think that if Ubisoft want to adopt an anti-piracy scheme that is this controversial, they HAVE to position it somewhere within the slalom poles of sanity.

I thought this (from the original RPS post)…


They also explain that if your connection drops while playing, the game will pause while it tries to reconnect, and then will apparently allow you to carry on without the internet.

…was an enormous get-out clause for them; probably the most vital part of the whole thing.

If that’s truly gone then they should be congratulated on devising a system that alienates even those who sympathize with what they’re trying to do in principle."


But I digress...

I actually think this is a really smart move on Ubisoft’s part… they have a right to protect their profits you know. If anything, this kind of DRM doesn’t really go far enough.

Think about it, if your internet connection drops out for a moment and you are (rightfully) kicked out of the game you paid for, you can still go back into the game with absolutely no lasting consequences when your connection is back up again. What the **** is that?! You lost your damn internet connection and then can just carry on gaming willy nilly 5 minutes later whilst Ubisoft sit there uncertain whether you are a pirate or not?

What they really need to do, is force customers to ring Ubisoft customer support’s international rate phone line every 150 seconds to obtain a rotating 47 digit alpha-numeric-symbollic case-sensitive serial key, read out to you in a distorted angry french accent, which you must input into a randomly moving and flashing dialog box within the game UI. Naturally, the input mechanism will be a direct console port so you won’t actually be able to use your keys, but you will be able to use the left and right arrows to scroll through all the characters to select them one by one.

They could even take a leaf out of Bioshock’s hacking minigame book and electrocute the **** off you if you typo it, or even have a bunch of klaxons set off as gun toting whirly-gigs come out of an obscured side hatch and mow you down in a hail of armour piercing depleted uranium .50 cal bullets for being a fat-fingered incompetent moron.

They clearly just haven’t thought about this properly yet. It’s sad to think that until Ubisoft wake up and realise there’s just so much more they could be doing to roger their customers, all these gamers around the world are going to be getting away with entire minutes of uninterrupted gaming pleasure.

Quite frankly, it sickens me.

User405
02-18-2010, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by ARandomKid:
I'm going to quote this comment that is pretty much what I intended to say all along to save myself some time:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">"I think that if Ubisoft want to adopt an anti-piracy scheme that is this controversial, they HAVE to position it somewhere within the slalom poles of sanity.

I thought this (from the original RPS post)…


They also explain that if your connection drops while playing, the game will pause while it tries to reconnect, and then will apparently allow you to carry on without the internet.

…was an enormous get-out clause for them; probably the most vital part of the whole thing.

If that’s truly gone then they should be congratulated on devising a system that alienates even those who sympathize with what they’re trying to do in principle."


But I digress...

I actually think this is a really smart move on Ubisoft’s part… they have a right to protect their profits you know. If anything, this kind of DRM doesn’t really go far enough.

Think about it, if your internet connection drops out for a moment and you are (rightfully) kicked out of the game you paid for, you can still go back into the game with absolutely no lasting consequences when your connection is back up again. What the **** is that?! You lost your damn internet connection and then can just carry on gaming willy nilly 5 minutes later whilst Ubisoft sit there uncertain whether you are a pirate or not?

What they really need to do, is force customers to ring Ubisoft customer support’s international rate phone line every 150 seconds to obtain a rotating 47 digit alpha-numeric-symbollic case-sensitive serial key, read out to you in a distorted angry french accent, which you must input into a randomly moving and flashing dialog box within the game UI. Naturally, the input mechanism will be a direct console port so you won’t actually be able to use your keys, but you will be able to use the left and right arrows to scroll through all the characters to select them one by one.

They could even take a leaf out of Bioshock’s hacking minigame book and electrocute the **** off you if you typo it, or even have a bunch of klaxons set off as gun toting whirly-gigs come out of an obscured side hatch and mow you down in a hail of armour piercing depleted uranium .50 cal bullets for being a fat-fingered incompetent moron.
bravo

They clearly just haven’t thought about this properly yet. It’s sad to think that until Ubisoft wake up and realise there’s just so much more they could be doing to roger their customers, all these gamers around the world are going to be getting away with entire minutes of uninterrupted gaming pleasure.

Quite frankly, it sickens me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

sirbil
02-18-2010, 02:02 AM
Ubisoft, you have one of the worst reputations in the games industry as it is, stunts like this are just making it worse. The number of times I've actually had to download a crack to FIX one of your games (that I legitimately bought I might add) is staggering.

M-dahaka
02-18-2010, 02:40 AM
Am i the only one who thinks this will be uncrackable? think about it: the game saves everything on the Ubisoft servers. even if the hackers are able to start the game offline, it will still try to save your game online, and it won't, meaning you wouldn't be able to save your games. The game will be cracked, for sure, but i think they won't be able to make the game save everything locally, meaning pirates will have to start the game from the beginning every time they play it.

apoc.reg
02-18-2010, 03:08 AM
Ha that is truly ridiculous.

I dont mind the internet check thats fine, and thanks for cloud saves (although i like most have 1 pc poweful enough to play this not 4!!) but seriously?! booting you out is RIDICULOUS

Thats gotta change pre release or everyone will play the pirated version (even those who buy it) without that hassle.

That will no doubt take someone about 48 hours... maybe a week?!!

LCGuardian
02-18-2010, 03:40 AM
The requirement of being online I could accept. The storage of saved games online I could accept (though I don't like it). But losing all progress back to the last checkpoint? That's absolutely going too far. I thought it would pause the game until the connection was reestablished. But to lose progress - ok, this DRM finally just managed to hack me off.

bokeef04
02-18-2010, 04:14 AM
i read that if you lose your internet connection the game pauses until the connection is restored, and it can be cracked, because ubisoft have already said that if they stop supporting it they will patch it to work offline, meaning you can do it, it's up their with Rid****:assault on dark athena which you can apparently only install 5 times and requires being connected to a server to install

Sigfried.M
02-18-2010, 04:57 AM
Ubisoft has definitely closed with me. I pre-order Black Edition of AC2 for 75€ but this DRM is really ridicoulous so I now cancel the pre-order.
Pirates, as always, broken the protection and only we with the originale game will have problems.
Many Ubisoft games have always problems for me.
AC1, Splinter Cell DA, Rainbow Six Vegas 1 and 2, Ghost Recon AW 1 and 2, etc.... For different reasons, any of these games have problems on my high-end PC.
Dear Ubi, can you better optimize your games for Pc instead of create these idiots protections?

SORRY FOR MY ENGLISH.

Windrius
02-18-2010, 05:25 AM
Srsly.
Most of the money we pay for the game goes to this $h!tty DRM.
This is why I just play ACII with my neighbours xbox. No need to pay for perfect game with uber lame DRM

SpartanFry
02-18-2010, 05:59 AM
Hello,
I was trying to find a way for my voice to be heard and hope that the developers of Assassins Creed II will hear me out. I understand that the game publisher thinks that games need DRM (maybe a DRM company is whispering into one of the execs ears and tells them how necessary this is).
But, as someone who has had the game on pre-order (on amazon) since months before its original release in the 3rd Quarter of 2009(I have been anxiously waiting for this game), I am seriously considering canceling my pre-order.
Why, you might ask. This DRM, is beyond invasive, my connection needs to be online through out the entire period of play? Your servers need to do the same? This is horrendous and maddening, a console kiddie can play this game on any xbox, he can give it to his friends and they can do the same and they have no online requirements?!
Why are you trying to screw us guys?
What is the reason I am buying this game, when I will never truly own it?
What-the-hell.

This DRM alone makes me want to pirate the game just so I can play it without any unforeseen problems (and don't tell me there are none, there always are. that is why they are unforeseen.)

In the end, as long as there is such a maddening drm, I am going to cancel this pre-order and spend my money elsewhere.

I really hope that you will reply at some point.

Enosh
02-18-2010, 06:09 AM
well, that's one way to compleatly kill any potential sales

looking forward to hearing ubis excuse why AC3 is PS3/x360 only

M-dahaka
02-18-2010, 07:08 AM
ok guys, good news: the game saves are stored locally, and it is given the option to store your saves online (source (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=235290&site=pcg))
This means it'll be 2 days max for pirate to make a crack, so, just buy the game and apply the crack!

All aboard the boat! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLsJyfN0ICU)

caswallawn_2k7
02-18-2010, 07:13 AM
ok guys, good news: the game saves are stored locally, and it is given the option to store your saves online
I could of told you that and it has been posted by the FM's before now that the saves are stored locally.

there is a option to turn on or off cloud storage in the launcher, so you don't even need to store them online if you down want to.

Serpantino
02-18-2010, 07:15 AM
Piracy won't be beaten. All Ubisoft are doing with this is alienating their customers by giving them less of a product than the pirate copy. The pirate copy will be playable offline, I can practically guarantee that. I already own AC 2 on the 360 but I'm now taking PC over 360 if available on both, however this leads me to warrant purchasing neither. Acts like this will cost Ubisoft more in the long run because more annoyed fans who feel bitter and/or betrayed will be refusing to buy it and looking at illegally acquiring it just to spite Ubisoft. Maybe they should take their head out of their posteriors and look at what an epic fail EA's Securom DRM decision was and how well sales of the pc version of Mass Effect 2 have done compared to the original.

Master_82
02-18-2010, 07:25 AM
Lol this is the worst news ever, will they never learn, whats next ur computer will blow up if u enter wrong cdkey.. sorry but this will be the most downloaded game in 2010.. no way anyone is gonna buy this game and accept this kind of drm.

Enosh
02-18-2010, 07:46 AM
whats next ur computer will blow up if u enter wrong cdkey

stop giving them ideas http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

WoodpeckeR123
02-18-2010, 12:01 PM
Petition against this here:

http://www.petitiononline.com/...igned.cgi?ew15dl94&1 (http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?ew15dl94&1)

Whilst these things don't have a great success rate, we can at least show our total disdain at what Ubisoft is doing.

Even if you don't think it'll work, you don't lose anything by signing.

If you do sign, please try and get others you know to sign too.

BrianHanna
02-18-2010, 01:23 PM
that petition will do just as much as the mw2 petition

nothing. Just don't buy the game, because they are obviously using the drm anyways

LegDrop
02-18-2010, 02:49 PM
For all the legit reasons posted here and many more I will not be buying AC. I will not purchase a product from a company who treats me like a criminal and tells me when I can play their game.

UBI, you have lost a customer for life. Not only have you lost my purchase of AC or Settlers, you have lost any and ALL future purchases with your branding or relation to. Instead of losing my $60 for AC, you will lose thousands for every game that I might have purchased in the future. This is for the PC and any console you develop for. You cannot treat your customers this way and expect them to like it. Shame on you.

dnmoqf
02-18-2010, 03:16 PM
I will probably buy the game but under protest. However if/when I get kicked out I will complain loudly. Maybe we should come up with a twitter tag so ppl could complain when they get kicked out.
But if the experience is bad I will definitively start screening before I buy anything. As a paying customer I am tired of drawing the short stick. Don't UBI have any reasonable ppl so that you can vet stuff like this before it gets put into practice.

Jamanamana
02-18-2010, 03:16 PM
Dear Ubi, you lost a customer for life. As someone who loved AC and was patiently looking forward to forking over whatever you thought AC2 was worth, I will now be keeping my money thanks to the stupidity of your new DRM.

I play PC games on my media PC, which is not connected to the internet, but even if it was I wouldn't buy the game out of principle. This move is questionable (is the PS3 DRM as imposing?), and I hope you appreciate that some of us will simply not put up with it.

As somebody who works in the media sector I believe that actions such as this encourage piracy (hell, I want to pirate your games now, and the only thing stopping me is knowing that I wouldn't want other people pirating my hard work).

Matt_156
02-18-2010, 04:38 PM
and i thought the PS3 locked save-games were bad. thank god i'm not a PC gamer. i feel bad for you guys. and i'm stunned that Ubisoft would continue with this even under such enormous pressure from the fans to abort this terrible, terrible idea.

Ubisoft, you get so much right, but for every stroke of genius you take 10 steps backwards every time. So many of your great games have been marred by stupid development decisions. whoever is in control over there, get your head out of the sand, man! harness the power of the gaming behemoth that is UBISOFT for good, not evil! huzzah!

Wonderglue
02-18-2010, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by ARandomKid:
I'm going to quote this comment that is pretty much what I intended to say all along to save myself some time:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">"I think that if Ubisoft want to adopt an anti-piracy scheme that is this controversial, they HAVE to position it somewhere within the slalom poles of sanity.

I thought this (from the original RPS post)…


They also explain that if your connection drops while playing, the game will pause while it tries to reconnect, and then will apparently allow you to carry on without the internet.

…was an enormous get-out clause for them; probably the most vital part of the whole thing.

If that’s truly gone then they should be congratulated on devising a system that alienates even those who sympathize with what they’re trying to do in principle."


But I digress...

I actually think this is a really smart move on Ubisoft’s part… they have a right to protect their profits you know. If anything, this kind of DRM doesn’t really go far enough.

Think about it, if your internet connection drops out for a moment and you are (rightfully) kicked out of the game you paid for, you can still go back into the game with absolutely no lasting consequences when your connection is back up again. What the **** is that?! You lost your damn internet connection and then can just carry on gaming willy nilly 5 minutes later whilst Ubisoft sit there uncertain whether you are a pirate or not?

What they really need to do, is force customers to ring Ubisoft customer support’s international rate phone line every 150 seconds to obtain a rotating 47 digit alpha-numeric-symbollic case-sensitive serial key, read out to you in a distorted angry french accent, which you must input into a randomly moving and flashing dialog box within the game UI. Naturally, the input mechanism will be a direct console port so you won’t actually be able to use your keys, but you will be able to use the left and right arrows to scroll through all the characters to select them one by one.

They could even take a leaf out of Bioshock’s hacking minigame book and electrocute the **** off you if you typo it, or even have a bunch of klaxons set off as gun toting whirly-gigs come out of an obscured side hatch and mow you down in a hail of armour piercing depleted uranium .50 cal bullets for being a fat-fingered incompetent moron.

They clearly just haven’t thought about this properly yet. It’s sad to think that until Ubisoft wake up and realise there’s just so much more they could be doing to roger their customers, all these gamers around the world are going to be getting away with entire minutes of uninterrupted gaming pleasure.

Quite frankly, it sickens me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol saw that comment on a site. did you post it or just copy it? Anyways lol'd

Oh besides,i don't think they care for PC users,or even our opinions. They will focus on consoles,so this DRM will force us to buy a console rather than buying their games on PC. If the sales are going to be low on PC (Probably due to DRM,and they are often lower than the Console counterparts) Ubisoft will blame the pirates,yeah a smart move indeed! They will drop the PC support and focus on consoles. Either way we are screwed.

ARandomKid
02-18-2010, 07:00 PM
The stuff below was in fact totally plagiarized from a comment, yes. :P


Well...I was going to get this. I still might, but definitely not at full price anymore, "uncut" edition be damned. I certainly don't need a shipyard to run around in, as nice as it may sound, if I can't run around in it for more than 30 seconds at a time.

POPersiaT2T
02-18-2010, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by Wonderglue:
If the sales are going to be low on PC (Probably due to DRM,and they are often lower than the Console counterparts) Ubisoft will blame the pirates,yeah a smart move indeed! They will drop the PC support and focus on consoles. Either way we are screwed.

+1

Kaoticman
02-18-2010, 09:55 PM
I'm a hardcore gamer on the PC, the 360 and the PS3. I buy literally thousands of dollars worth of games every single year. Not a month passes that I don't buy not one, but several games. Many of those games in the past have been Ubisoft games. I can safely say that until you come to your senses and get rid of all online based DRM (CD keys and disc checks are all the DRM you need) I will not be purchasing any of your products, on any platform. In addition, I have many friends who look to me for advice on game purchases, so I am in effect responsible for the sales of possibly tens of thousands of dollars worth of games every year. I will be steering them away from Ubisoft games and to competitors who use more sensible DRM schemes. That's from just one user, I'm sure for every one like me there are many more who won't even bother to post here.

So long, Ubisoft, and may bankruptcy treat you poorly.

Hitokirix101
02-19-2010, 01:52 AM
its such a shame ubisoft has again decided to go down this road all it will do is push more people towards piracy not deter it, why punish us legit customers ubisoft?

BlackKnight35
02-19-2010, 06:58 AM
Add my name to the list of 'never buying UbiSoft games again'. If this stupid DRM sticks and is not removed, I'm done with your company, console games and all.

psyestorm
02-19-2010, 08:55 AM
Yea.....

I won't be buying ANY Ubisoft games until this DRM scheme is removed.

Vote with your wallet.

CptMds
02-20-2010, 12:56 PM
This sickens me. It really does.

I was actually going to go out and spend my (limited) cash on this game, especially since the developers are around 15 minutes from my house.
Apparently, though, if I happen to travel to the countryside to my cottage, then I can't play it there? Then what was the point of me buying an expensive gaming laptop? That's only like 200km from their offices.
This Internet thing makes my purchase completely pointless. Sorry, Ubisoft, but you've just lost a customer who actually had some respect for the developers.

And even if I didn't travel, then I can see many problems. For example, my ISP, Videotron (every single developer of this game must know them) has screwed up my internet from time to time, usually for a day or two. So I have to leave my PC on with a paused game just so I can not loose progress? What kind of stupidity is that?
That, and I'm sure they're aware of my stupidly low bandwidth cap. Even if it doesn't take much, it's still something if it's connecting constantly. If I'm near my limit, then a little bit can easily cause me to go over. I'll send them the bill.

Finally, if someone does actually get me a copy of some Ubisoft game as a gift or something (who knows), they can rest assured that if something goes wrong I will call them and swear at them in French slang demanding to know who gave them the right to limit my playing environment. French is not my first language, but hey, I live in the same city they do and I know enough to get my point across.

WabeWalker
02-20-2010, 11:15 PM
I've got a much better idea - let's boycott this thread.

Who even cares if the stupid game wants to check with the internet. If you don't have an internet connection then you suck.

Okay, bye.

NotThatWay
02-21-2010, 05:40 AM
Well, well, ubisoft. This is the end of the story about you and me.
Iam playing online games, and Iam enjoying them. But, ACII is not an online game. When there is one thing I've learned about online games it is that the server, the Internet and my connection is not reliable enough to play whenever I want. Because of this I play offline games too. Because of this I played ACI.
And because of this you have just lost another, well moneyed costumer.
This can not be the way you want to walk.

Dragonfire126
02-21-2010, 10:39 AM
I love reading all these "never buying from Ubisoft again" posts. Only because Ubisoft decides to actually do something about the pirating, and everybody gets all hostile against the company that tries to keep itself alive, and tries to give you the best game possible, without getting ripped off by the people that only come here to whine about how they hate that its delayed, and then pirate it anyway. Either buy a console, a better internet connection or buy a different game. Or get another hobby. Stop whining, damn.

DerelictHuman
02-21-2010, 10:54 AM
Let's say I'm playing SC: Conviction. In the middle of the mission, there is a hard way to croos with a lot of guards, and at the and of the way a boss(or something like that) waiting. I had a hard time to pass the guards, find a way to sneak behind, banged the boss... And I forgot to save my progress, my internet connection or Ubi master-****ing-servers got down... I wait until re-connect, let's say it couldnt reconnect or my connection drops for a day. What must I do?

Let me tell you!
Blame Ubisoft or blame ubisoft.

That's it!

LCGuardian
02-21-2010, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by Dragonfire126:
I love reading all these "never buying from Ubisoft again" posts. Only because Ubisoft decides to actually do something about the pirating, and everybody gets all hostile against the company that tries to keep itself alive, and tries to give you the best game possible, without getting ripped off by the people that only come here to whine about how they hate that its delayed, and then pirate it anyway. Either buy a console, a better internet connection or buy a different game. Or get another hobby. Stop whining, damn.

At this point, you are the one whining. So you've got a console and don't have these problems. Good for you. For a lot of people, they are real problems, and saying that they should find a different hobby doesn't help. Cut the trolling out.

rain89c
02-21-2010, 01:55 PM
new DRM = more restrictive game.
how do i play a single player game like assassins creed 2 on the airplane with my laptop?
you should get the hint that this new drm leads to more piracy, rather than lower piracy rates.

Wonderglue
02-21-2010, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by Dragonfire126:
I love reading all these "never buying from Ubisoft again" posts. Only because Ubisoft decides to actually do something about the pirating, and everybody gets all hostile against the company that tries to keep itself alive, and tries to give you the best game possible, without getting ripped off by the people that only come here to whine about how they hate that its delayed, and then pirate it anyway. Either buy a console, a better internet connection or buy a different game. Or get another hobby. Stop whining, damn.

2 words: You fail.

But i think that isn't enough.

None actually wants your console bull**** with outdated hardware.

We don't need to buy a console,nor a better internet connection.

None of us should be forced to buy something extra to play a Single Player game.

Ubisoft is in fact trying to kill PC gaming,even if they won't admit it. So they can move on to consoles with a 12 year old fanbase roaming around on Xbox Live or saying how a "PS3" is better than Xbox because it has a Blu Ray player lol.

I could go on,and on. But there is no point in that.

So either your statement sucks,or you're just a bad troll. There is no other explanation.

Madubu
02-21-2010, 03:50 PM
I've been waiting for this game for 4 months now.
Saved the money and figured out where i would buy it.
Where i live, the internet sucks, at best reaches 512kbps.
So, because of this drm, i will wait for a patch, or buy something else.

Harold18
02-21-2010, 03:54 PM
Do u guys know what it means when it says constant internet connection required? It dosent mean your streaming the game onto your desktop, all it is just being connected to Ubisoft's servers, just as you are when you a viewing this forum. It dosent take a fast connection speed, heck, even 56K speed would be sufficent.

bokeef04
02-21-2010, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by Wonderglue:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dragonfire126:
I love reading all these "never buying from Ubisoft again" posts. Only because Ubisoft decides to actually do something about the pirating, and everybody gets all hostile against the company that tries to keep itself alive, and tries to give you the best game possible, without getting ripped off by the people that only come here to whine about how they hate that its delayed, and then pirate it anyway. Either buy a console, a better internet connection or buy a different game. Or get another hobby. Stop whining, damn.

2 words: You fail.

But i think that isn't enough.

None actually wants your console bull**** with outdated hardware.

We don't need to buy a console,nor a better internet connection.

None of us should be forced to buy something extra to play a Single Player game.

Ubisoft is in fact trying to kill PC gaming,even if they won't admit it. So they can move on to consoles with a 12 year old fanbase roaming around on Xbox Live or saying how a "PS3" is better than Xbox because it has a Blu Ray player lol.

I could go on,and on. But there is no point in that.

So either your statement sucks,or you're just a bad troll. There is no other explanation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

so you don't believe Ubisoft has a right to try and protect itself from pirates? I'm not saying this DRM is good, or even a step in the right direction, but if people didn't pirate games Ubisoft wouldn't need to add this kind of protection on.

Harold18 is right, all those PC players who are already connected to the net 24/7 won't be effected, even if you only have a 56k connection, but Ubisoft is punishing people who don't have an internet connection or theirs is unstable

but ultimately it comes down to the fact this is only here because people pirate games, i ask anyone who still has a problem with that to then ask themselves whether stealing is alright? last time i checked the commandments did still include Thou shalt not steal, so is downloading a digital copy of a game for free from pirates different to stealing the game or anything else from an actual shop?

LCGuardian
02-21-2010, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by bokeef04:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wonderglue:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dragonfire126:
I love reading all these "never buying from Ubisoft again" posts. Only because Ubisoft decides to actually do something about the pirating, and everybody gets all hostile against the company that tries to keep itself alive, and tries to give you the best game possible, without getting ripped off by the people that only come here to whine about how they hate that its delayed, and then pirate it anyway. Either buy a console, a better internet connection or buy a different game. Or get another hobby. Stop whining, damn.

2 words: You fail.

But i think that isn't enough.

None actually wants your console bull**** with outdated hardware.

We don't need to buy a console,nor a better internet connection.

None of us should be forced to buy something extra to play a Single Player game.

Ubisoft is in fact trying to kill PC gaming,even if they won't admit it. So they can move on to consoles with a 12 year old fanbase roaming around on Xbox Live or saying how a "PS3" is better than Xbox because it has a Blu Ray player lol.

I could go on,and on. But there is no point in that.

So either your statement sucks,or you're just a bad troll. There is no other explanation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

so you don't believe Ubisoft has a right to try and protect itself from pirates? I'm not saying this DRM is good, or even a step in the right direction, but if people didn't pirate games Ubisoft wouldn't need to add this kind of protection on.

Harold18 is right, all those PC players who are already connected to the net 24/7 won't be effected, even if you only have a 56k connection, but Ubisoft is punishing people who don't have an internet connection or theirs is unstable

but ultimately it comes down to the fact this is only here because people pirate games, i ask anyone who still has a problem with that to then ask themselves whether stealing is alright? last time i checked the commandments did still include Thou shalt not steal, so is downloading a digital copy of a game for free from pirates different to stealing the game or anything else from an actual shop? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think anyone here would condone piracy (certainly they wouldn't if they wanted to keep their posting privileges). I just think most people (myself included) don't see this DRM as a solution, but rather a problem that decreases the value of the product for the legal purchaser, while the pirate gets a version free from any intrusive DRM. From what I've heard, Bioware's approach has been value added - providing extra material that isn't able to be pirated, to attract legal purchasers. Doesn't that seem more sensible in attracting purchasers than an approach which gives a product less valuable (in terms of playability for those with unreliable internet) than the pirated versions that will quickly be available?

In my opinion, PC gamers are going to react better to the carrot (Bioware) than the stick (Ubisoft).

BrianHanna
02-21-2010, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by bokeef04:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wonderglue:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dragonfire126:
I love reading all these "never buying from Ubisoft again" posts. Only because Ubisoft decides to actually do something about the pirating, and everybody gets all hostile against the company that tries to keep itself alive, and tries to give you the best game possible, without getting ripped off by the people that only come here to whine about how they hate that its delayed, and then pirate it anyway. Either buy a console, a better internet connection or buy a different game. Or get another hobby. Stop whining, damn.

2 words: You fail.

But i think that isn't enough.

None actually wants your console bull**** with outdated hardware.

We don't need to buy a console,nor a better internet connection.

None of us should be forced to buy something extra to play a Single Player game.

Ubisoft is in fact trying to kill PC gaming,even if they won't admit it. So they can move on to consoles with a 12 year old fanbase roaming around on Xbox Live or saying how a "PS3" is better than Xbox because it has a Blu Ray player lol.

I could go on,and on. But there is no point in that.

So either your statement sucks,or you're just a bad troll. There is no other explanation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

so you don't believe Ubisoft has a right to try and protect itself from pirates? I'm not saying this DRM is good, or even a step in the right direction, but if people didn't pirate games Ubisoft wouldn't need to add this kind of protection on.

Harold18 is right, all those PC players who are already connected to the net 24/7 won't be effected, even if you only have a 56k connection, but Ubisoft is punishing people who don't have an internet connection or theirs is unstable

but ultimately it comes down to the fact this is only here because people pirate games, i ask anyone who still has a problem with that to then ask themselves whether stealing is alright? last time i checked the commandments did still include Thou shalt not steal, so is downloading a digital copy of a game for free from pirates different to stealing the game or anything else from an actual shop? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

if there was any proof that DRM reduces piracy, then id be all for it.

But as it is now, all DRM is negative to legitimate users, and pirates always get around it.

DRM is useless.

sswehrwolf
02-21-2010, 05:52 PM
The entire problem with any type of pirating is you have to pay actual money for a game, and are then told you can only do what they want you to do with it. This is not just a videogame problem, this is a universal problem.

Take for example that i had roughly 180 tapes for my old boom box, then i had to go and buy a bunch of CD's, of the same stuff i already bought, then i had to burn copies into mp3 for my ipod by going out and buying the same items id already paid for. Sorry, not going to happen in my case, im not paying over and over again for the same product, so id get em from my friends or online. Simple solution, and free.

So now we move into the digital download. Movies, Music, and Games still cost the same, storage and packaging the product is now $0, and the prices remain the same as if i had gone out and bought a CD/DVD that was pressed, coded, boxed, shipped, and stored. Of course web servers cost money to store the actual game itself, but once you sell 10 games, your upkeep is back to $0 just based on charging for the non existent packaging of the game you no longer have too. But yer still making money off of us by selling and reslling our personal information and using our hardware/software profiles.

Thats for the PC obviously as digital downloading hasnt quite hit the consoles yet for the full game, just for DLC or older and/or smaller games. But if you think once you have an xbox live account that MS isnt making millions of dollars a year selling user information, you are naive. You dont see a dime of this money, but they can limit your ability to use the game you paid for while still making money off of your user information for decades. Yes, that seems fair to me, why not add some more DRM to gain more information from us while claiming pirating as your basis when we all know its just another statistic you use to make a profit off of our personal information.

They have the ability to make the game easy to obtain online, but then they DRM it to death. Do you realize the amount of work you have to do to get a pirated game? Find it, Download it, Hope its not corrupted, maybe redownload it if it is corrupted or if its a fake, then go through the hassle of unpacking, installing, patching it all. I dont see the immense problem here. We want ease of use, pirating is not ease of use, its cheap dont get me wrong, but its not ease of use even with daemon tools or power iso. Just the amount of vigilance involved with pirating anything anymore; trojans, virii, spyware; is almost more work than its worth. In the end, you do gain an impressive knowledge of software however.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

All told, pirating is not the reason for draconian DRM, your personal information is the real reason. They make money almost indefinitely off of your videogaming habits based on your user information and statistics.

Think that over before you really get into the issue of pirating being the real reason Ubisoft is putting in constantly connected to the internet DRM. If you want proof of this, register the game with a PO box, give no one else this PO box, then see what shows up in your mail for the next year. It wont be a letter from a guy trying to get you to download his pirated copy of assassins creed.

LCGuardian
02-21-2010, 06:06 PM
Go easy on the pirating details. The mods will come down like a ton of bricks on that.

sswehrwolf
02-21-2010, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by LCGuardian:
Go easy on the pirating details. The mods will come down like a ton of bricks on that.

There are no details in there on how to pirate anything, just on the amount of work and knowledge youd need to even begin to do so. If anything theyd take it down for what i said about them selling our personal information without recompensating us.

BTOG46
02-21-2010, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by sswehrwolf:
There are no details in there on how to pirate anything, just on the amount of work and knowledge youd need to even begin to do so. If anything theyd take it down for what i said about them selling our personal information without recompensating us.

There doesn't have to be, read the forum rules:


Discussion of software piracy in any of its forms is strictly not allowed on these boards

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

mc2w
02-21-2010, 07:23 PM
Dear Ubisoft,

As the other members have clearly informed you, this is most likely not an intelligent decision on your part. Whoever busted into your development section shouting "OMG DRM STOPS PIRACY!!!one!" clearly missed what happened to Spore.

In case you, the reader, also missed, Spore managed to reach record downloads. Record DOWNLOADS. Now for the fun part: most of those downloads weren't sales. That's right, their DRM ended up causing a massive boycott (where have I heard that word recently?), and Spore became one of the most pirated games of all time.

Now, last time I checked, those weren't exactly convincing results.

Now, let me present to you my status as an Ubisoft customer:

PAYING.

I purchased Assassin's Creed, Rainbow Six Vegas 2, and Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory. I do not have ANY pirated games on my PC as it is. I purchase the games that look good to me, I enjoy them, you get your money. Good deal, right?

Funny thing is I don't see what in that situation leads you to believe you can do anything and my status will remain the same. You slap me in the face, and I'll walk off and leave. I don't have to stand there and take it unless you offer me something worth that slap in the face (but so far I see nothing, only another game).

Does this mean I'm going to pirate it? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe I just won't play it at all. The point is you just lost a sale. Well, rather sales. MANY of them. Many of which will be driven to pirate a restriction free version of the game.

Your anti-piracy measures are only encouraging piracy. If you think this standard will stick, it won't. DRM will never stick. Just like how punishing the innocent in modern society won't decrease crime rates.

Illegalize marijuana? A whole new reason to use it, grow it, sell it.

This DRM is a mistake and we all know it, and we're not going to back down. Sure, you'll get sales, but you're losing much more than you're protecting with your "anti-piracy" systems.

Your friend, mc2w.

NotThatWay
02-22-2010, 02:07 AM
It's nice to see that there are so many people thinking the same way like me.
As I already made my point clear, I want to give you an example of a problem with the server of UBISOFT I face continuously.

I like to play Rainbow Six Vegas2, actually it's my favorite game right now, but I can play it only half the time I want to, just because I'm UNABLE TO CONNECT TO THE UBISOFT SERVER to just LOGIN! This is NOT because of my Internet connection. Search for it on different boards, they are full of it. After half an hour of frustrating tries to connect the game, I give up and play Battlefield, which comes from EA and connects without problems.

Ubisoft server suck! And even if they start more server for AC2, I would bet that they will shut them down to a minimum after a while (to reduce their costs ( for an offline game!?) ) and I will be one of the poor guys, ending up with connection problems every time I want to play A BOUGHT GAME!? NO!

By the way, isn't there a new Battlefield out right now? I've some bucks to spend :-)

ozthrox
02-22-2010, 02:48 AM
Dear Ubisoft,

As a customer of many of your PC games (at least two dozen at last count) and a very enthusiastic player of the original Assassin's Creed, you've seriously disappointed me with this latest punishment for paying customers. I'm sorry, but I won't be purchasing AC2 despite long anticipation of the game - I'd rather not play it than have to deal with the intrusion and fear of losing my game just because something out of my control happens on the internet.

Your assumption that people have internet connections alive 100% of the time is a poorly thought out attempt to (understandably) control your losses due to piracy. People do not have reliable connections. Many people don't even have broadband. Those serving their country in the military who are looking for some form of recreation almost certainly don't have internet available at all (and I'm sure you aren't anti-military, even though this act makes it look otherwise). Almost everyone has trouble with their connections now and then and there's certainly been more than the fair share of issues with Ubi's servers (from Rainbow Six Vegas 2 experience). This whole mess is just a poorly thought out idea - don't sweat, many of us have ideas that sounded good at the time but were really dumb in hindsight. Just fix it and move on - you'll get some customers back.

I think most people (including myself) can handle some form of online activation. Limited activations are an annoyance but as long as there's some form of redress via telephone support it's something that we can cope with. Checking every startup is quite annoying, but with an offline mode (like Steam) it's bearable. Requiring you to be online for every SINGLE PLAYER game session - that's just ridiculous and beyond stupidity.

I've enjoyed your games in the past but sadly, with this policy, our ways must part. Please fix your policies so I can give money to you again, but this attitude you have now is only costing you sales and certainly turning no one from alternatives.

Thanks for reading,

John

wozzawas
02-22-2010, 02:52 AM
Originally posted by caswallawn_2k7:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abeonis:
This new DRM feature is a stupid idea, especially considering that most poeple who do not have an internet connection wouldn't even know about this new approach; they'll buy the game and then find out they cannot play it.
and that would be their own fault for not reading the game box or taking note as all sites selling the game say a internet connection is needed to play.

it works on the same theory as the people who buy games even tho their PC cant run them, then blame the developer/publisher for their inability to read. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Too bad if it is in small print that a internet connection is required most of the time you cant even find it because it is small. I for one will not buy AC2 until the DRM is removed and i wont buy any other UBI game either.

wozzawas
02-22-2010, 02:58 AM
Originally posted by sirbil:
Ubisoft, you have one of the worst reputations in the games industry as it is, stunts like this are just making it worse. The number of times I've actually had to download a crack to FIX one of your games (that I legitimately bought I might add) is staggering.

They never use to be the worse. It was EA who was the worse and had a bad reputation. How ever EA have changed there ways and don't have any DRM on new games. Really UBI make EA look like saints.

I also Boycotted EA games with DRM. But since they no longer have DRM on new games i will forgive them buy games from them.

wozzawas
02-22-2010, 03:01 AM
Originally posted by M-dahaka:
Am i the only one who thinks this will be uncrackable? think about it: the game saves everything on the Ubisoft servers. even if the hackers are able to start the game offline, it will still try to save your game online, and it won't, meaning you wouldn't be able to save your games. The game will be cracked, for sure, but i think they won't be able to make the game save everything locally, meaning pirates will have to start the game from the beginning every time they play it.

You have to remember that hackers hack for the challenge of it. And this game will present a challenge to the hackers. The game will be cracked it is just a matter of when.

dnmoqf
02-22-2010, 03:35 AM
I also Boycotted EA games with DRM. But since they no longer have DRM on new games i will forgive them buy games from them.

That is not true. EA uses DRM, most of the games I have from EA uses SecuROM, with online activation.

I am still going to try AC2, to see how it affects me. However if the experience is bad, well... Well, I am bordering taking that approach anyway, but not far away from cancelling the order.

No offline mode or exitting without saving?
That is not good behaviour.
Since we have a case of consolitus here, ie the damn checkpoints, at least don't exit until the next checkpoint, when the connection is broken.

Windrius
02-22-2010, 03:42 AM
Ubi should be happy.
If their games are most pirated of the year, that means they make the best games

adarwinter
02-22-2010, 06:48 AM
Originally posted by M-dahaka:
Am i the only one who thinks this will be uncrackable? think about it: the game saves everything on the Ubisoft servers. even if the hackers are able to start the game offline, it will still try to save your game online, and it won't, meaning you wouldn't be able to save your games. The game will be cracked, for sure, but i think they won't be able to make the game save everything locally, meaning pirates will have to start the game from the beginning every time they play it.

that's what im thinking. i wouldnt be surprised if the save files are encrypted and can be decrypted only at ubisoft's servers so saving offline (if somehow it'd possible) won't help either.

this has the potential of being an uncrackable system that will ensure i wont get AC2 nor SC:conviction and it's really really really sad since i have been manipulating my budget to allow myself to buy these games.

as i said before - the only time i will buy this game is when its cracked. not a moment before.

BrianHanna
02-22-2010, 09:19 AM
since my thread was deleted

http://news.bigdownload.com/20...hould-be-turned-off/ (http://news.bigdownload.com/2010/02/21/opinion-always-on-should-be-turned-off/)

points out what just about most PC gamers here have a problem with.

1. We are expected to pay 60 dollars for a game that we will never technically own, and are given restrictions on when we are allowed to use it.

2. A business that focuses more on what pirates do than what actually paying customers want is set to fail.

3. This won't work, Pirates are pirates, they don't care how good a game is, they will pirate it anyways, and if they can't they definitely wont buy it, and thus, the DRM will only negatively affect loyal customers who have always payed for your games.

4. Piracy is everywhere, games, music, consoles, and with other PC software, can you imagine if all of these industries implemented a feature that would disable the product if not connected to the internet? The public outcry would be outrageous, and these industries would be forced to reverse it.

Come to your senses UBI, realize that using DRM to attack pirates (who will never buy your games anyways) only affects your paying customers, stop putting so much attention on these criminals and focus on making a better and more convenient service for you customers that love your games and are happy to pay for them.

Also, as an interesting fact, a recent study by the United states department of commerce shows that THIRTY percent of AMERICANS (not Africans, not Jamaicans, not haitians, but americans, that is, people who live in one of the most modern countries in the world) do not have access to internet, or simply do not have a home connection.
http://news.bigdownload.com/20...hould-be-turned-off/ (http://news.bigdownload.com/2010/02/21/opinion-always-on-should-be-turned-off/)

are you really willing to ignore 30% of Americans, your largest market?

please do not dismiss this or lock this thread moderators, this is honest and well thought out feedback that should not go ignored.

BTOG46
02-22-2010, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by BrianHanna:
since my thread was deleted


Nope, just locked, it's still on the forum, and people were asked to use existing threads.

BrianHanna
02-22-2010, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by BTOG46:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BrianHanna:
since my thread was deleted


Nope, just locked, it's still on the forum, and people were asked to use existing threads. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

good thing we have you moderators up to date on that kind of stuff, maybe we will get responses to our points, and not just be told what we are doing "wrong"

SteelCity999
02-22-2010, 01:49 PM
To this point....

1. We are expected to pay 60 dollars for a game that we will never technically own, and are given restrictions on when we are allowed to use it.

Everyone should know that there are many companies who do not sell you their software despite the fact that you purchase a box, a disc or download it. One of the biggest if not the biggest is Microsoft. Despite what you may believe when you purchase that upgrade to windows or purchase a new PC, you are paying only for the license to use it and not distribute it in any shape or form. You may not modify it either or you will lose your licensing rights.

To another point..it is always in the fine print as what I just said above is one of those things that is in the fine print.

Is it wrong for Ubisoft to use the DRM? The answer would be wholeheartedly a YES. Why? Because you are relying on a third party to play the game. If Ubisoft provided their own internet access point and could provide consistent connections to everyone that has access to the game, than that would be a different story. There are many other reasons which have all been brought up and each and every one has there point. Its just a flawed and dare I say uptopian like fantasy that it would even work - saving them money.

The only other thing I can think of is that they are desperately trying to kill PC sales so that they can go to the shareholders and say "PC games don't even sell 1/2 percent of console games...it's a waste of resources. Let's not make them anymore." Give consoles another 5-10 years and they will surpass PCs anyway. What other logical reasoning can be behind such a flawed idea as the DRM?

BTW, I don't consider myself a PC Gamer and I still find this DRM ridiculous. I don't want it to ever find it's way onto consoles - just the recycle bin maybe.

monkeyuncle8
02-22-2010, 06:21 PM
its kinda ironic Ubisoft put it up to stop people from pirating the game, but doing so will cause people to pirate the game

LCGuardian
02-22-2010, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by monkeyuncle8:
its kinda ironic Ubisoft put it up to stop people from pirating the game, but doing so will cause people to pirate the game

Yep. DRM should never, NEVER force legal purchasers into piracy when the whole point of DRM in general is to try to prevent piracy and create more legal purchasers. Ubisoft seem to have just gone for it and forgotten reality.

bokeef04
02-22-2010, 07:26 PM
hey, because you can see that making certain drugs illegal has rid them from our planet, if there were no pirates we wouldn't need DRM's or other anti piracy methods, and to the person who said Ubisoft should be proud their games are the most pirated meaning the best, that may be so but they lose money, millions maybe billions of dollars because people didn't pay for it.

@LCGuardian what was the content Bioware added that couldn't be pirated? and why can't it be pirated?
also my point wasn't that this DRM is right, but Ubisoft are trying something new, if Ubisoft never tried anything new we wouldn't have AC either, and it is within their right to try and protect their IP, and in all cases it is always those that do the right thing that are punished because of those that do wrong

LCGuardian
02-22-2010, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by bokeef04:
hey, because you can see that making certain drugs illegal has rid them from our planet, if there were no pirates we wouldn't need DRM's or other anti piracy methods, and to the person who said Ubisoft should be proud their games are the most pirated meaning the best, that may be so but they lose money, millions maybe billions of dollars because people didn't pay for it.

@LCGuardian what was the content Bioware added that couldn't be pirated? and why can't it be pirated?
also my point wasn't that this DRM is right, but Ubisoft are trying something new, if Ubisoft never tried anything new we wouldn't have AC either, and it is within their right to try and protect their IP, and in all cases it is always those that do the right thing that are punished because of those that do wrong

I thought I had heard that Bioware were offering online content for Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age Origins - value added material. Anyway, whether that was correct or not, I was arguing that I think the solution to piracy is to offer value added componenets that aren't able to be pirated - a toy/figurine, one use codes for additional content etc. Content that can't be pirated, so that there is increased value in the legal game as opposed to the pirated game.

I certainly haven't argued that Ubisoft don't have a right to try to protect their intellectual property. But what I have argued is that this DRM is not the answer. You say Ubisoft have the right to try anything. They do, but only to a point that it doesn't damage shareholder value in the company. I honestly think this will, by damaging the PC customer base for upcoming Ubisoft PC titles and encouraging the piracy they were trying to stop. And there's a pretty big difference between offering the first installment of a new series to the market, and enforcing DRM on the PC customer base. So no, they don't have an unlimited right to try anything they want.

BrianHanna
02-22-2010, 08:22 PM
i'm most likely just going to buy a used copy for my brothers x-box and play it.

that way i can enjoy it, and it doesn't count as a sale towards UBI.

bokeef04
02-22-2010, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by LCGuardian:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bokeef04:
hey, because you can see that making certain drugs illegal has rid them from our planet, if there were no pirates we wouldn't need DRM's or other anti piracy methods, and to the person who said Ubisoft should be proud their games are the most pirated meaning the best, that may be so but they lose money, millions maybe billions of dollars because people didn't pay for it.

@LCGuardian what was the content Bioware added that couldn't be pirated? and why can't it be pirated?
also my point wasn't that this DRM is right, but Ubisoft are trying something new, if Ubisoft never tried anything new we wouldn't have AC either, and it is within their right to try and protect their IP, and in all cases it is always those that do the right thing that are punished because of those that do wrong

I thought I had heard that Bioware were offering online content for Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age Origins - value added material. Anyway, whether that was correct or not, I was arguing that I think the solution to piracy is to offer value added componenets that aren't able to be pirated - a toy/figurine, one use codes for additional content etc. Content that can't be pirated, so that there is increased value in the legal game as opposed to the pirated game.

I certainly haven't argued that Ubisoft don't have a right to try to protect their intellectual property. But what I have argued is that this DRM is not the answer. You say Ubisoft have the right to try anything. They do, but only to a point that it doesn't damage shareholder value in the company. I honestly think this will, by damaging the PC customer base for upcoming Ubisoft PC titles and encouraging the piracy they were trying to stop. And there's a pretty big difference between offering the first installment of a new series to the market, and enforcing DRM on the PC customer base. So no, they don't have an unlimited right to try anything they want. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i think what they did with dragon age was that as soon as you started they asked you to BUY, not get for free, but actually buy more content to actually play the game, and you don't think piracy hurts shareholder value in the company? i agree with you that this DRM is probably a step in the wrong direction and it punishes those that would legally buy it, but Ubisoft does have to try something, would you want to invest money in a company that did nothing to stop pirates?

i also agree on value adding, but how many companies honestly do that nowadays? you look at the black edition for AC2, we had to pay more, which isn't really value adding, value adding is giving extra away for free, like when some products give x% larger varieties for the same price

just remember LCGuardian and all those that think this DRM is wrong, that i do agree with you, but i can also put aside my own bias to see Ubisofts side and see that they are just trying to protect their IP and yes, their profits, because if they don't make money the shareholders will withdraw and they wont be able to produce any more games.

i ask all those who will inevitably find something wrong with what i have said to design their own DRM that will only hurt the pirates by making it impossible to pirate but not hurt a single consumer

LCGuardian
02-22-2010, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by bokeef04:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LCGuardian:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bokeef04:
hey, because you can see that making certain drugs illegal has rid them from our planet, if there were no pirates we wouldn't need DRM's or other anti piracy methods, and to the person who said Ubisoft should be proud their games are the most pirated meaning the best, that may be so but they lose money, millions maybe billions of dollars because people didn't pay for it.

@LCGuardian what was the content Bioware added that couldn't be pirated? and why can't it be pirated?
also my point wasn't that this DRM is right, but Ubisoft are trying something new, if Ubisoft never tried anything new we wouldn't have AC either, and it is within their right to try and protect their IP, and in all cases it is always those that do the right thing that are punished because of those that do wrong

I thought I had heard that Bioware were offering online content for Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age Origins - value added material. Anyway, whether that was correct or not, I was arguing that I think the solution to piracy is to offer value added componenets that aren't able to be pirated - a toy/figurine, one use codes for additional content etc. Content that can't be pirated, so that there is increased value in the legal game as opposed to the pirated game.

I certainly haven't argued that Ubisoft don't have a right to try to protect their intellectual property. But what I have argued is that this DRM is not the answer. You say Ubisoft have the right to try anything. They do, but only to a point that it doesn't damage shareholder value in the company. I honestly think this will, by damaging the PC customer base for upcoming Ubisoft PC titles and encouraging the piracy they were trying to stop. And there's a pretty big difference between offering the first installment of a new series to the market, and enforcing DRM on the PC customer base. So no, they don't have an unlimited right to try anything they want. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i think what they did with dragon age was that as soon as you started they asked you to BUY, not get for free, but actually buy more content to actually play the game, and you don't think piracy hurts shareholder value in the company? i agree with you that this DRM is probably a step in the wrong direction and it punishes those that would legally buy it, but Ubisoft does have to try something, would you want to invest money in a company that did nothing to stop pirates?

i also agree on value adding, but how many companies honestly do that nowadays? you look at the black edition for AC2, we had to pay more, which isn't really value adding, value adding is giving extra away for free, like when some products give x% larger varieties for the same price

just remember LCGuardian and all those that think this DRM is wrong, that i do agree with you, but i can also put aside my own bias to see Ubisofts side and see that they are just trying to protect their IP and yes, their profits, because if they don't make money the shareholders will withdraw and they wont be able to produce any more games.

i ask all those who will inevitably find something wrong with what i have said to design their own DRM that will only hurt the pirates by making it impossible to pirate but not hurt a single consumer </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since I think we're arguing but agree on most things, let me spell out my position on all of this.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>When you talk about biases, for me at least that is only being a PC gamer concerned about the future of PC gaming, and more specifically of AC on PC. I have a stable internet connection so I will be able to run AC2, and I will be buying a Black edition on release day.
<LI>Ubisoft does have the right, as owner of the intellectual property behind their titles, to attempt to prevent pirating of its games.
<LI>I believe that this DRM will fail in its purpose of preventing piracy, and will be rapidly cracked after the game's release.
<LI>On that basis, I believe that this DRM is the wrong approach from Ubisoft - if it is rapidly cracked and the patch to relieve its intrusive features for legal buyers isn't forthcoming, it will drive otherwise legal purchasers to piracy.
<LI>In an ideal world, DRM which only prevented piracy and didn't impact on the legitimate purchaser would be my ideal for AC2.
<LI>Since this isn't an ideal world, that DRM isn't possible. So I think the alternative to draconian DRM is to identify elements that can be added to products to incentivise legal purchase and can't be pirated, as opposed to incentivising piracy by making the illegal version more attractive than the intrusive DRM laden legal version.
[/list]

If you disagree with anything in there, bokeef, say so, but I get the feeling we agree on most things.

sswehrwolf
02-22-2010, 11:48 PM
@ LCGuardian

Your points have validity. My biggest concern about this whole fiasco is... I do not have a clue what ubisoft does with my personal information, or my gaming information. Is it used in studies, sold for a profit by ubisoft at my expense of being forced to be constantly online to play the game? Much like the forum site, theres a scary as all hell couple of provisions in their privacy policy as it is just for the website:
"Q3 How is your personally identifiable information used and shared?
.....
Aggregate Information

Finally, we may take your personally identifiable information and make it non-personally identifiable, either by combining it with information about other individuals (aggregating your information with information about other individuals), or by removing characteristics (such as your name) that make the information personally identifiable to you (de-personalizing your information). Given the nature of this information, no restrictions apply under this Privacy Policy on our right to aggregate or de-personalize your personal information, and we may use and share in any way with third parties the resulting non-personally identifiable information.

Business Information

For practical reasons, we treat personal information submitted to us in a business capacity different from information we receive in a non-business capacity. Personal information submitted to us in a business capacity (e.g. resumes) may be shared with third parties, depending on the nature of the inquiry. "

Now if i buy the game and register it, its in a business capacity... of course im not a lawyer and if i was i could probably yay and nay the **** out of all this.. but just from reading it, makes me nervous. There is no EASE OF USE to opt out of any type of privacy policy for a reason, only like .01% of people ever go through the trouble of sending a snail mail, which is usually required per their policies, and thats specifically put into policies because of that. We will never be told how much money they make off of each of us, from any company or website that has our information. I for one refuse to just accept it as unavoidable like everyone else on the internet, but i also dont go through the hassle of opting out either. Some things arent worth it if you use a disposable email address and a fictitious name. But information can still be gleamed from your habits, that are sold or traded. Which in itself i feel is a constitutional violation. But to each their own.

LCGuardian
02-23-2010, 12:35 AM
Well, you'd hope that Ubisoft would require that you choose to allow them to distribute information to third parties. I'm a law student, and so I do have some idea about privacy law (but in New Zealand, not the United States). If you're using an Ubi.com account for the DRM with your real name and email address, then I'm guessing they will be able to associate your gaming habits with a name, gender and email address. However, this should count as non-business information meaning any would have to be depersonalised as per their policy. So if they follow their policy they shouldn't distribute your personal details. But I've read about US companies that have done exactly that, and they will have a good read on our gaming habits from our Ubi.com accounts. So let's hope they stick to their policy.

wozzawas
02-23-2010, 03:32 AM
Originally posted by dnmoqf:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I also Boycotted EA games with DRM. But since they no longer have DRM on new games i will forgive them buy games from them.

That is not true. EA uses DRM, most of the games I have from EA uses SecuROM, with online activation.

I am still going to try AC2, to see how it affects me. However if the experience is bad, well... Well, I am bordering taking that approach anyway, but not far away from cancelling the order.

No offline mode or exitting without saving?
That is not good behaviour.
Since we have a case of consolitus here, ie the damn checkpoints, at least don't exit until the next checkpoint, when the connection is broken. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The new EA games don't have online activations. And the old games you can remove the activations with a removal tool.

bokeef04
02-23-2010, 03:53 AM
Originally posted by LCGuardian:
Since I think we're arguing but agree on most things, let me spell out my position on all of this.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>When you talk about biases, for me at least that is only being a PC gamer concerned about the future of PC gaming, and more specifically of AC on PC. I have a stable internet connection so I will be able to run AC2, and I will be buying a Black edition on release day.
<LI>Ubisoft does have the right, as owner of the intellectual property behind their titles, to attempt to prevent pirating of its games.
<LI>I believe that this DRM will fail in its purpose of preventing piracy, and will be rapidly cracked after the game's release.
<LI>On that basis, I believe that this DRM is the wrong approach from Ubisoft - if it is rapidly cracked and the patch to relieve its intrusive features for legal buyers isn't forthcoming, it will drive otherwise legal purchasers to piracy.
<LI>In an ideal world, DRM which only prevented piracy and didn't impact on the legitimate purchaser would be my ideal for AC2.
<LI>Since this isn't an ideal world, that DRM isn't possible. So I think the alternative to draconian DRM is to identify elements that can be added to products to incentivise legal purchase and can't be pirated, as opposed to incentivising piracy by making the illegal version more attractive than the intrusive DRM laden legal version.
[/list]

If you disagree with anything in there, bokeef, say so, but I get the feeling we agree on most things.

i agree with everything you said, it would be nice if developers value added to games, i suppose they could add content that had to be linked to an ubi account, but then i'm not sure if even that could stop pirates, as i've seen pirated expansions for games available for download

either way lets hope Ubisoft realise this quickly and patch it for offline use and decide to go with more value adding to loyal paying customers, i just may buy it for PC aswell if i deem it worth the money.

if people think this DRM is a joke and destined to fail, maybe they should check out OnLive which is meant to be the end of consoles, and prob a fair chunk of gaming PC's

Tristan_129
02-23-2010, 05:06 AM
AC2 is now available to pre-order at steam.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/33230/


But...



3rd-party DRM:
UBISOFT REQUIRES A PERMANENT HIGH SPEED INTERNET CONNECTION AND CREATION OF A UBISOFT ACCOUNT TO PLAY THIS VIDEO GAME AT ALL TIMES.

dnmoqf
02-23-2010, 05:43 AM
Originally posted by wozzawas:
The new EA games don't have online activations. And the old games you can remove the activations with a removal tool.
Oh, nice going to look for that removal tool.
I guess it still has the Disk Check DRM.
Back to ubisoft; I wouldn't mind so much if I could switch between using a disk check or being online (without a disk check).

dnmoqf
02-23-2010, 05:48 AM
Originally posted by dnmoqf:
Back to ubisoft; I wouldn't mind so much if I could switch between using a disk check or being online (without a disk check).
Well, and if they would at least wait to kick you until the next checkpoint when they lose connection...
Seriously I hate "consolitus" (one affliction commonly associated with this is only having checkpoints, not proper game saves).

AuroraElika
02-23-2010, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by bokeef04:
i read that if you lose your internet connection the game pauses until the connection is restored, and it can be cracked, because ubisoft have already said that if they stop supporting it they will patch it to work offline, meaning you can do it, it's up their with Rid****:assault on dark athena which you can apparently only install 5 times and requires being connected to a server to install
I will believe it when I actually see it. I am still waiting for support on their older DRM title that I can't play on my current machine.

Seekzor
02-23-2010, 02:43 PM
Let's give the DRM a try shall we?

So many claims that it will be hacked in this amount of time, heck it aint hacked yet and YOU can't know when it will be hacked, you can speculate however but doubt the forum mods approves bets on the subject.

Just give it a try, if it does cut out piracy it's a good addition in my eyes(maybe because I got stable internet connection w/e). If it doesn't help against hackers I think Ubisoft will remove it, they are not stupid as many of you seem to claim, just think, who is the multimillion company here? Ubisoft or you the forum whiner?

P.S If Ubisoft were a bit smarter they would have tested DRM on a less popular game, but that's my opinion and since it's not my game it's not me too decide what they do with it, I will buy the game anyways.

BrianHanna
02-23-2010, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by Seekzor:
Let's give the DRM a try shall we?



that would require me to pay for it.

so no.

Seekzor
02-23-2010, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by BrianHanna:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Seekzor:
Let's give the DRM a try shall we?



that would require me to pay for it.

so no. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah then I guess you will be downloading it illegaly since else you got no real reason for staying on a forum which is about a game you won't buy? Or do you just like having something to whine at?

BrianHanna
02-23-2010, 02:50 PM
sorry, i don't pirate, but that doesn't mean i can't protest an intrusive DRM.

troll harder.

Seekzor
02-23-2010, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by BrianHanna:
sorry, i don't pirate, but that doesn't mean i can't protest an intrusive DRM.

troll harder.

Hmm you were the one who started the trolling with you first reply to my post but sure I troll people who troll me.

back on topic:
If your internet sucks I am sorry for you but that Ubisoft does something against piracy is a good thing(thou I doubt that none on this forum haven't downloaded anything at some point, just saying)

If you don't like the DRM move along because if it do work against piracy they will keep going with it, if it aint they will probably remove it.

LCGuardian
02-23-2010, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by Seekzor:
Let's give the DRM a try shall we?

So many claims that it will be hacked in this amount of time, heck it aint hacked yet and YOU can't know when it will be hacked, you can speculate however but doubt the forum mods approves bets on the subject.

Just give it a try, if it does cut out piracy it's a good addition in my eyes(maybe because I got stable internet connection w/e). If it doesn't help against hackers I think Ubisoft will remove it, they are not stupid as many of you seem to claim, just think, who is the multimillion company here? Ubisoft or you the forum whiner?

P.S If Ubisoft were a bit smarter they would have tested DRM on a less popular game, but that's my opinion and since it's not my game it's not me too decide what they do with it, I will buy the game anyways.

Yeah, I have a stable broadband connection as well, so I will be trying the DRM in AC2. But even if the DRM does work and is not cracked, is it really a good solution to alienate a portion of your legitimate customers? What global corporation intentionally disregards some of its customer base and survives long term?

And when you talk about Ubisoft as the multimillion dollar corporation versus the forum whiners, tell me, who made the multimillion dollar losses last year? The forum whiners or Ubisoft? Do you really think that because people are employees of a big corporation they are immune to being blinded from reality by pride in their own work? I accept that the people who developed this DRM are proud of what they have accomplished. But in the end if reality doesn't match the ideal of what the DRM will accomplish, then reality has to and will win out. And at this point I think we forum whiners have a better grasp of reality than the Ubisoft spokesman who acknowledged all the problems with the DRM but pretty much said "who cares, we're going for it".

BrianHanna
02-23-2010, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by Seekzor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BrianHanna:
sorry, i don't pirate, but that doesn't mean i can't protest an intrusive DRM.

troll harder.

Hmm you were the one who started the trolling with you first reply to my postbut sure I troll people who troll me.

back on topic:
If your internet sucks I am sorry for you but that Ubisoft does something against piracy is a good thing(thou I doubt that none on this forum haven't downloaded anything at some point, just saying)

If you don't like the DRM move along because if it do work against piracy they will keep going with it, if it aint they will probably remove it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

regardless of how it works, i shouldnt have to pay 10 dollars more than usual to test a feature that should not be there.

Also, it's not just me without internet, it is 30% of americans, and even more in other countries.

Even if this DRM does work, it could kill sales simply by shrinking the market by over 30%.

it's a ******ed plan.

Seekzor
02-23-2010, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by LCGuardian:

Yeah, I have a stable broadband connection as well, so I will be trying the DRM in AC2. But even if the DRM does work and is not cracked, is it really a good solution to alienate a portion of your legitimate customers? What global corporation intentionally disregards some of its customer base and survives long term?

And when you talk about Ubisoft as the multimillion dollar corporation versus the forum whiners, tell me, who made the multimillion dollar losses last year? The forum whiners or Ubisoft? Do you really think that because people are employees of a big corporation they are immune to being blinded from reality by pride in their own work? I accept that the people who developed this DRM are proud of what they have accomplished. But in the end if reality doesn't match the ideal of what the DRM will accomplish, then reality has to and will win out. And at this point I think we forum whiners have a better grasp of reality than the Ubisoft spokesman who acknowledged all the problems with the DRM but pretty much said "who cares, we're going for it".

You must have missunderstood me in my orignal post, I am not for this DRM thing, but I am willing to try it if it a try to cut down on piracy.

I don't say it's a good solution, I just say it's worth a shot, if it fails do you think they will keep it? No they won't they are just trying to find a solution instead of doing nothing as many other companies does.

Another thing to take in mind is just because those who writes on these forums doesn't like the DRM doesn't mean the world around it does. Do you think those who are for this solution is wasting their time writing how good it is? No they say nothing because they are happy with it(not saying there are people who thinks this, just making an example that this forum aint the same as the whole PC community).

Pankratz1980
02-23-2010, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by LCGuardian:
Yeah, I have a stable broadband connection as well, so I will be trying the DRM in AC2. But even if the DRM does work and is not cracked, is it really a good solution to alienate a portion of your legitimate customers? What global corporation intentionally disregards some of its customer base and survives long term?


Valve took the risk and they're doing fine.
They introduced the most restrictive DRM ever for their games in 2004 - STEAM, alienating millions of people. That was HUGE, it sparked an enormous backlash.

Are they out of business?

LCGuardian
02-23-2010, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Pankratz1980:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LCGuardian:
Yeah, I have a stable broadband connection as well, so I will be trying the DRM in AC2. But even if the DRM does work and is not cracked, is it really a good solution to alienate a portion of your legitimate customers? What global corporation intentionally disregards some of its customer base and survives long term?


Valve took the risk and they're doing fine.
They introduced the most restrictive DRM ever for their games in 2004 - STEAM, alienating millions of people. That was HUGE, it sparked an enormous backlash.

Are they out of business? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, that's a fair point. But this DRM is more restrictive than Steam. At least Steam has an offline mode. If your internet connection is average you could still buy a retail copy and play in offline mode. But you can't do that with the AC2 DRM. So I still think not using Steam is a choice for most gamers, whereas not using Ubisoft's DRM will be enforced on a significant portion of gamers.

mc2w
02-23-2010, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by Seekzor:

So many claims that it will be hacked in this amount of time, heck it aint hacked yet and YOU can't know when it will be hacked, you can speculate however but doubt the forum mods approves bets on the subject.
Neither is Left 4 Dead 3

OH WAIT MAYBE THAT'S BECAUSE IT HASN'T BEEN RELEASED YET

bokeef04
02-23-2010, 06:46 PM
@dnmoqf i agree, seeing as how the being online is really only to stop pirates, you think once you started, they could let you get away with going until the next checkpoint before booting, would also allow time for the connection to re-establish if something happens, maybe if it's lost it pauses or a window pops up to tell you connection has been lost, much like when controllers are low on battery or are disconnected


Originally posted by Tristan_129:
AC2 is now available to pre-order at steam.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/33230/


But...
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

3rd-party DRM:
UBISOFT REQUIRES A PERMANENT HIGH SPEED INTERNET CONNECTION AND CREATION OF A UBISOFT ACCOUNT TO PLAY THIS VIDEO GAME AT ALL TIMES. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

where did you here that? the article i read said this:
Our online services platform will require a maximum of 50kbps of available bandwidth, so even with the slowest connection, gameplay won’t be affected.

like i said earlier, check out onlive, it's asks for a minimum connection of 1.5mb/s upto like 5mb/s for HD, and this they are spruiking as the end of console games, something that requires constant high speed connection to the net and you never actually own the game, meaning you can't take them with you where ever you go

LCGuardian
02-23-2010, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by Seekzor:
You must have missunderstood me in my orignal post, I am not for this DRM thing, but I am willing to try it if it a try to cut down on piracy.

I don't say it's a good solution, I just say it's worth a shot, if it fails do you think they will keep it? No they won't they are just trying to find a solution instead of doing nothing as many other companies does.

Another thing to take in mind is just because those who writes on these forums doesn't like the DRM doesn't mean the world around it does. Do you think those who are for this solution is wasting their time writing how good it is? No they say nothing because they are happy with it(not saying there are people who thinks this, just making an example that this forum aint the same as the whole PC community).

Apologies if I have misunderstood you. But I'm still getting idea that you think it could be an effective solution to piracy. Even if it is uncrackable, in my eyes it is not an effective solution to piracy, simply because I don't see alienating part of the fan base as any kind of solution for a corporation that provides an entertainment product, given there are so many forms of entertainment for people to engage in.

And believe me, I know that forums only provide a very small and non-statistical sample of the total customer base. Ultimately, they reflect only the people who feel strongly enough either way to make a public comment of their feelings. However, in this situation I don't think that argument runs well. If it was an argument about opinion (for example, I think Altair's hood should have been red when you think it should be white), then a forum will not be representative of the total customer base because most people won't care enough to become involved. This is different - there is no choice in whether to become involved in the DRM system if you buy AC2. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a fact - if you want to buy AC2, you have to be prepared and able to put up with the DRM. On that basis, I think the opinions expressed on this forum (Ubisoft has a right to attempt to prevent piracy, grudging accepting the DRM because one's connection is sufficent for it, or anger because one's connection isn't sufficient) are representative of the reactions of the entire customer base of AC2. Let me put it this way - I doubt there would be 1% of eventual AC2 purchasers who would want the DRM on their version of AC2 if they had a choice not to have it. And I think that reflects that it is an intrusive and punishing system.

One that I am willing to try myself, however.

SergeantMajorME
02-23-2010, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by bokeef04:
@dnmoqf i agree, seeing as how the being online is really only to stop pirates, you think once you started, they could let you get away with going until the next checkpoint before booting, would also allow time for the connection to re-establish if something happens, maybe if it's lost it pauses or a window pops up to tell you connection has been lost, much like when controllers are low on battery or are disconnected

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tristan_129:
AC2 is now available to pre-order at steam.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/33230/


But...
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

3rd-party DRM:
UBISOFT REQUIRES A PERMANENT HIGH SPEED INTERNET CONNECTION AND CREATION OF A UBISOFT ACCOUNT TO PLAY THIS VIDEO GAME AT ALL TIMES. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

where did you here that? the article i read said this:
Our online services platform will require a maximum of 50kbps of available bandwidth, so even with the slowest connection, gameplay won’t be affected.

like i said earlier, check out onlive, it's asks for a minimum connection of 1.5mb/s upto like 5mb/s for HD, and this they are spruiking as the end of console games, something that requires constant high speed connection to the net and you never actually own the game, meaning you can't take them with you where ever you go </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Taken direcly from steampowered.com.

Title: Assassin's Creed 2
Genre: Action, Adventure
Developer: Ubisoft Montreal
Publisher: Ubisoft
Release Date: March 9th, 2010
Languages: English, French, German, Italian, Spanish
3rd-party DRM: UBISOFT REQUIRES A PERMANENT HIGH SPEED INTERNET CONNECTION AND CREATION OF A UBISOFT ACCOUNT TO PLAY THIS VIDEO GAME AT ALL TIMES.

(Source: http://store.steampowered.com/app/33230/ )

I can't believe what they've done. I actually joined just to rant here. Mutiplayer game? Duh, great option for an always online patch. Single Player only game? REALLY??? How about this. Run an online check every week, if it doesn't get a check once a week, ask for the CD to be popped in, and use that to validate for another week. That way, you can use it offline with a CD, but users can still use the online if they don't want to keep track of the CD (this keeps all "benefits" Ubisoft is talking about, and satisfies the problem).

Seekzor
02-24-2010, 12:08 AM
Originally posted by mc2w:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Seekzor:

So many claims that it will be hacked in this amount of time, heck it aint hacked yet and YOU can't know when it will be hacked, you can speculate however but doubt the forum mods approves bets on the subject.
Neither is Left 4 Dead 3

OH WAIT MAYBE THAT'S BECAUSE IT HASN'T BEEN RELEASED YET </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You need to get reading glasses seriously,
and something behind the glasses aswell because if you had you would be able to see my point, however all that is there right now is pure nerdrage over this DRM.

My point was that since it haven't been hacked yet YOU can't know when it will be hacked or if it will be hacked(neither can I). Next time read the whole post before making a fool of yourself

Seekzor
02-24-2010, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by LCGuardian:
Apologies if I have misunderstood you. But I'm still getting idea that you think it could be an effective solution to piracy. Even if it is uncrackable, in my eyes it is not an effective solution to piracy, simply because I don't see alienating part of the fan base as any kind of solution for a corporation that provides an entertainment product, given there are so many forms of entertainment for people to engage in.

And believe me, I know that forums only provide a very small and non-statistical sample of the total customer base. Ultimately, they reflect only the people who feel strongly enough either way to make a public comment of their feelings. However, in this situation I don't think that argument runs well. If it was an argument about opinion (for example, I think Altair's hood should have been red when you think it should be white), then a forum will not be representative of the total customer base because most people won't care enough to become involved. This is different - there is no choice in whether to become involved in the DRM system if you buy AC2. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a fact - if you want to buy AC2, you have to be prepared and able to put up with the DRM. On that basis, I think the opinions expressed on this forum (Ubisoft has a right to attempt to prevent piracy, grudging accepting the DRM because one's connection is sufficent for it, or anger because one's connection isn't sufficient) are representative of the reactions of the entire customer base of AC2. Let me put it this way - I doubt there would be 1% of eventual AC2 purchasers who would want the DRM on their version of AC2 if they had a choice not to have it. And I think that reflects that it is an intrusive and punishing system.

One that I am willing to try myself, however.

I do agree with you that it's not the best solution, my fault for not being clear on that point. However atleast they do something. I mean you and I can't know what they are planning behind the curtains... But ask yourself this; Do you really think Ubisoft are stupid enough to implent this on a longterm basis if it turns out that they loose 50% of their PC sales?

As I see it hell no, but that's just me. I think this is a (desperate) try to have less piracy. They will however notice if they drop too much sales on it and believe me on this one, they will remove it, else I agree with most posters here that they are stupid.

Reason why I go argument against everyone whining here is because I think you are too impatient with this and should give it a try before whining. Not directing this to you LCGuardian since you are probably the only one who don't whine but at least are constructive)

LCGuardian
02-24-2010, 02:27 AM
Originally posted by Seekzor:

I do agree with you that it's not the best solution, my fault for not being clear on that point. However atleast they do something. I mean you and I can't know what they are planning behind the curtains... But ask yourself this; Do you really think Ubisoft are stupid enough to implent this on a longterm basis if it turns out that they loose 50% of their PC sales?

As I see it hell no, but that's just me. I think this is a (desperate) try to have less piracy. They will however notice if they drop too much sales on it and believe me on this one, they will remove it, else I agree with most posters here that they are stupid.

Let me just say I really hope you're right. If the DRM works and is uncrackable, then fair enough as long as it is usable. But if it is cracked quickly, I really hope Ubisoft have the smarts to do just what you've said. And they most likely will respond to the DRM being cracked by releasing the patch and not implementing it on future releases. I guess I'm just cynical from months of seeing the activities around the PC version being neglected, and from pushing for information for the last couple months. If I'm objective, I'm sure you'll be right.


Reason why I go argument against everyone whining here is because I think you are too impatient with this and should give it a try before whining. Not directing this to you LCGuardian since you are probably the only one who don't whine but at least are constructive)

Cheers. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Seekzor
02-24-2010, 03:08 AM
We will find out soon http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif just one week to go, if NZ got the same release date as europe that is!

LCGuardian
02-24-2010, 03:12 AM
Originally posted by Seekzor:
We will find out soon http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif just one week to go, if NZ got the same release date as europe that is!

It seems that we do. Most of the retailers are saying the 5th in NZ, though, rather than the 4th which kleaneasy has said is the date for Australia and NZ. We'll see next week if I can talk the good folks at EB Games into giving me my preorder a day before their listed date.

wozzawas
02-24-2010, 04:06 AM
Originally posted by LCGuardian:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Seekzor:
We will find out soon http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif just one week to go, if NZ got the same release date as europe that is!

We'll see next week if I can talk the good folks at EB Games into giving me my preorder a day before their listed date. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You do realize advertising in particular at a UBI forum can get EB into serious trouble and i mean serious trouble. Breaking street dates is a big no, no and retailers who get caught can get hefty penalties from the publisher and even worse can get black banned for breaching street dates. And the way UBI attitude is they will go after anyone. This is why some games get released before the street date because the street date has been broken. But the retailer does get penalized for breaching the street date.

bokeef04
02-24-2010, 05:37 AM
Originally posted by SergeantMajorME:
I can't believe what they've done. I actually joined just to rant here. Mutiplayer game? Duh, great option for an always online patch. Single Player only game? REALLY??? How about this. Run an online check every week, if it doesn't get a check once a week, ask for the CD to be popped in, and use that to validate for another week. That way, you can use it offline with a CD, but users can still use the online if they don't want to keep track of the CD (this keeps all "benefits" Ubisoft is talking about, and satisfies the problem).

you do realise that the method you described is ineffective, why do you think companies made it so you had to have the cd in while playing, it was one of the first ways they thought of to stop pirates, but it has been cracked

looplick
02-24-2010, 08:10 AM
The DRM approach taken by Ubisoft is pathetic. It comes across like the company is scrounging for pennies. Of course, for a publicly traded company, that's all the shareholders give a damn about: the pennies.

What these clowns need to do is approach their product as if it were in competition with the priated version. That is, what does the retail, purchased version of the product offer that the pirated version cannot?

As it is now with the DRM, the cracked version of the game will be a superior product to the retail version. That is backwards and absolutley ridiculous: Good job Ubisoft.

PC game companies need to stop taking the negative trade-off approach to DRM. Instead of punishing the people who actually buy the game with restrictive DRM, reward those who spend their hard-earned money. What is the result of the DRM situatioin right now? Justified fury and lost sales. People who wanted to buy this game, like myself, can no longer do that in good conscience. I'm upset because I wanted to buy this game. Now I cannot. I will never support this DRM disaster, or any company that believes this is the solution to pirating.

Shame on you Ubisoft.

PS: Your hurdle price of $60 is a joke. I hope your company goes belly-up.

Peace

NotThatWay
02-24-2010, 09:04 AM
@Seekzor:

You really don't get the point, do you. Most people here (including me) would be happy to buy this game. But not as an strictly online, DRM-dongled game.

I think it's for sure, that even this DRM gets hacked sooner or later*, which means that the pirates (not me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) will play it anyway without paying. Waiting a little bit longer is just the usual business for them.

Now start adding 1 and 1, if the pirates will wait for the hack, and I will not buy the game because of their policy, the only one loosing money is Ubisoft.

You can't be seriouse with your comment 'should give it a try'! No matter this game works with my Internet or not, Ubisoft would believe they have a happy costumer, even if I can not play the game whenever I want. Which means, that they will not, never!, change
their policy if they have sold enough games.

The only persons writing here and do 'whine', are the ones who want to buy the game, don't miss that. Pirates don't whine, they will just laugh about us, you and Ubisoft.



By the way, the only reason I see, to have an online game which is an offline game which is an online game, is to push the following version. Do you really think you will be able to play the game after several years? Server do cost money, money they don't want to spent on an 'old' game if there is a new version to buy ;-|



*: of course this is my personal opinion, but as a programmer I know a little bit about that things.

Seekzor
02-24-2010, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by NotThatWay:
@Seekzor:

You really don't get the point, do you. Most people here (including me) would be happy to buy this game. But not as an strictly online, DRM-dongled game.

I think it's for sure, that even this DRM gets hacked sooner or later*, which means that the pirates (not me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) will play it anyway without paying. Waiting a little bit longer is just the usual business for them.

Now start adding 1 and 1, if the pirates will wait for the hack, and I will not buy the game because of their policy, the only one loosing money is Ubisoft.

You can't be seriouse with your comment 'should give it a try'! No matter this game works with my Internet or not, Ubisoft would believe they have a happy costumer, even if I can not play the game whenever I want. Which means, that they will not, never!, change
their policy if they have sold enough games.

The only persons writing here and do 'whine', are the ones who want to buy the game, don't miss that. Pirates don't whine, they will just laugh about us, you and Ubisoft.



By the way, the only reason I see, to have an online game which is an offline game which is an online game, is to push the following version. Do you really think you will be able to play the game after several years? Server do cost money, money they don't want to spent on an 'old' game if there is a new version to buy ;-|



*: of course this is my personal opinion, but as a programmer I know a little bit about that things.

I totally get your point but I don't agree with you. I believe that I will be a happy costumer even with this DRM.

I don't think you got my point however. Give the ****ing DRM a try, if it fails do you really, seriously believe that they are gonna keep it just to annoy you and the other users? With ****ed up sales of course they won't keep it, if it turns out it's just a handful of copies they loose from the people in these forums (don't mark my words here because I am just speculating so no point quoting saying "none will like it you are stupid" oke?). And if there are only people from these forums (still not saying it is like that) the problem isn't as big as you make it seem.

LCGuardian
02-24-2010, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by wozzawas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LCGuardian:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Seekzor:
We will find out soon http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif just one week to go, if NZ got the same release date as europe that is!

We'll see next week if I can talk the good folks at EB Games into giving me my preorder a day before their listed date. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You do realize advertising in particular at a UBI forum can get EB into serious trouble and i mean serious trouble. Breaking street dates is a big no, no and retailers who get caught can get hefty penalties from the publisher and even worse can get black banned for breaching street dates. And the way UBI attitude is they will go after anyone. This is why some games get released before the street date because the street date has been broken. But the retailer does get penalized for breaching the street date. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm very aware of the consequences for any retailer who is selling a product before release date. But in this case, when EB Games are listing the 5th of March as the release date in NZ, and the official release for Australia and NZ has been confirmed to be the 4th, I don't see any issues with a conversation with them to try to get it released on the 4th. That's not breaking the street date - that's releasing it on the correct date.

However, if there's an issue with asking at EB Games that you or anyone else can see that I have missed, then say it. I wouldn't want to get them into trouble with Ubisoft - but I can't see that asking on the release date would do that.

NotThatWay
02-24-2010, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by Seekzor:

I totally get your point but I don't agree with you. I believe that I will be a happy costumer even with this DRM.

I don't think you got my point however. Give the ****ing DRM a try, if it fails do you really, seriously believe that they are gonna keep it just to annoy you and the other users? With ****ed up sales of course they won't keep it, if it turns out it's just a handful of copies they loose from the people in these forums (don't mark my words here because I am just speculating so no point quoting saying "none will like it you are stupid" oke?). And if there are only people from these forums (still not saying it is like that) the problem isn't as big as you make it seem.


Alright then, here is my problem.
I'm playing Rainbow Six Vegas2 which is, to me, an online game. Therefore you have to login to a Ubisoft server before you may join the games of other players. But I have many timeouts connecting to the Ubisoft server (not the players) which means that I'm not connected. Some evenings I can't play a single game because of this problem.

With this in mind, would you say, that I would be a happy costumer? I would not bet on that. Even if they buy enough server for the first view month/year, I don't think they care about me after that period when they start to shut down a view server just for saving costs.

This is what I'm afraid of.

What do you mean with 'if it[DRM] fails ...'?
Do you mean failing in prevent from piracy? I can not remember one single mechanism which stopped piracy, but all of them have survived till today. Once they have this mechanism established they will keep it.

Think about about the power they will get just because you have to be online all the time and you have to login for playing that game offline, logged in into their server!

You will buy the game anyway, ok, you will not be alone. But I won't buy it, and I won't be alone either. I just hope that we are enough to show them they do fail. After that we all have more freedom - or equal freedom accord to the past.

cu

BrianHanna
02-24-2010, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by Seekzor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NotThatWay:
@Seekzor:

You really don't get the point, do you. Most people here (including me) would be happy to buy this game. But not as an strictly online, DRM-dongled game.

I think it's for sure, that even this DRM gets hacked sooner or later*, which means that the pirates (not me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) will play it anyway without paying. Waiting a little bit longer is just the usual business for them.

Now start adding 1 and 1, if the pirates will wait for the hack, and I will not buy the game because of their policy, the only one loosing money is Ubisoft.

You can't be seriouse with your comment 'should give it a try'! No matter this game works with my Internet or not, Ubisoft would believe they have a happy costumer, even if I can not play the game whenever I want. Which means, that they will not, never!, change
their policy if they have sold enough games.

The only persons writing here and do 'whine', are the ones who want to buy the game, don't miss that. Pirates don't whine, they will just laugh about us, you and Ubisoft.



By the way, the only reason I see, to have an online game which is an offline game which is an online game, is to push the following version. Do you really think you will be able to play the game after several years? Server do cost money, money they don't want to spent on an 'old' game if there is a new version to buy ;-|



*: of course this is my personal opinion, but as a programmer I know a little bit about that things.

I totally get your point but I don't agree with you. I believe that I will be a happy costumer even with this DRM.

I don't think you got my point however. Give the ****ing DRM a try, if it fails do you really, seriously believe that they are gonna keep it just to annoy you and the other users? With ****ed up sales of course they won't keep it, if it turns out it's just a handful of copies they loose from the people in these forums (don't mark my words here because I am just speculating so no point quoting saying "none will like it you are stupid" oke?). And if there are only people from these forums (still not saying it is like that) the problem isn't as big as you make it seem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

are you an idiot?

if the DRM fails? the only way to make that happen is if it is hacked, or if people don't buy it.

I don't give a **** if it stops pirates, im not buying it if i have to be on the internet 100% of the time.

Stop trying to support something so intrusive, i don't know how people could possibly support this.

Madatheist
02-24-2010, 10:20 PM
Stop trying to support something so intrusive, i don't know how people could possibly support this.

Maybe because companies often pay some guys to post on their forums...?
(I'm not pointing finger here http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif )

User405
02-24-2010, 10:55 PM
lol just lol
buy the game > wait for crack> apply crack to game > play > laugh at ubi > profit?

sswehrwolf
02-24-2010, 11:02 PM
Oh you mean like certain companies who got busted on the hardocp.com forums? Gee that never happens..lol

NotThatWay
02-25-2010, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by User405:
lol just lol
buy the game > wait for crack> apply crack to game > play > laugh at ubi > profit?
> don't change anything

Tristan_129
02-27-2010, 06:45 AM
Originally posted by NotThatWay:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by User405:
lol just lol
buy the game > wait for crack> apply crack to game > play > laugh at ubi > profit?
> don't change anything </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Even if you do this, you still have bought and supported Ubisoft's DRM campaign. Do you think $60 dollars are really worth for that?

Better wait till Ubisoft decided another random course of action, hoepfully either patching the DRM or removing it completely.

ozthrox
02-27-2010, 07:43 AM
@Seekzor:

So many claims that it will be hacked in this amount of time, heck it aint hacked yet and YOU can't know when it will be hacked, you can speculate however but doubt the forum mods approves bets on the subject.
It will likely be "hacked" by the time it is officially released, if past records are anything to go by. If not, within three days would be almost a certainty. This DRM isn't effective at all against piracy, the real target is the second hand market - Ubisoft are attempting to kill it because they make no money from resales.


Just give it a try, if it does cut out piracy it's a good addition in my eyes(maybe because I got stable internet connection w/e). If it doesn't help against hackers I think Ubisoft will remove it, they are not stupid as many of you seem to claim, just think, who is the multimillion company here? Ubisoft or you the forum whiner?
I heard Merrill Lynch was a multimillion dollar company too - didn't stop them making silly decisions based on poor assumptions.

The only metric Ubisoft has on whether the DRM is effective against piracy is what the sales of the game are like. If you "just try it" then it's sending a signal to them that consumers don't mind the DRM. If you refuse to buy it *and* make lots of noise then that's the way they'll figure that it was a bad move.

"Just try it" is about the worst advice you can offer if you want this to go away. Much better advice would be "wait three months".

Mr_Shade
02-27-2010, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by Madatheist:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Stop trying to support something so intrusive, i don't know how people could possibly support this.

Maybe because companies often pay some guys to post on their forums...?
(I'm not pointing finger here http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif ) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I would hope not http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The only people to get paid to post on here, as far as I'm aware are Ubisoft staff... and managers like myself.. we are paid for our duties.. not to post - we have to post to do those duties - before anyone shouts 'plant!!'


I will just remind people to remain civil, I understand this DRM issue can be scary to many, at present it's still an unknown process - we have told you the many aspects of it, and yet many still only see the downside..

I think it's best to wait until the games that use it start to ship and then we all can take it from there.

I for one hope that many of you can put behind you any preconceptions you have, and at least give it the benefit of the doubt.


I have to say that talk of 'hacking' the DRM is not going to help anyone - the DRM is there to protect PC gamers, and to help them - by being less restrictive than other methods..

Those of you calling for no DRM whatso ever - no one is saying you do have the right to be heard, but you should also accept the fact, that many people will agree it's needed...

Even more people may not even notice it working.. and can just play the game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

albiole
02-27-2010, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by Mr_Shade:

the DRM is there to protect PC gamers, and to help them



hahaha http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif to help them http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Mr_Shade
02-27-2010, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by albiole:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr_Shade:

the DRM is there to protect PC gamers, and to help them



hahaha http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif to help them http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Might help if you quoted me correctly - think you missed a bit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But I might need to explain properly to you?

The new DRM allows you to install on unlimited PC's / amount of times.. and also allows you to not need the game disc in the drive.. something many PC gamers have wanted for a while, since the game disc's can become damaged with changing games etc..

Other methods, limit the install to 1 and/or require the disc present.. or don't work at all on some drives..

it's a shame that PC gaming is troubled with DRM at all - but due to people pirating the games, it's needed.. if those people paid for the games, and didn't just download everything they see, since they can, it wouldn't be needed at all...

Oh and that's my personal opinion - not the 'official ubisoft' one - since I know people like to quote http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

FiskMunk
02-27-2010, 11:31 AM
^Actually, that is the official opinion of Ubisoft. You just happen to share it, mr Moderator.

Mr_Shade
02-27-2010, 11:48 AM
Wow..

Must make some sense then http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


End of the day.. that's my opinion as a gamer, and is one shared by others.

But then again, I am a 'glass half full' type http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BrianHanna
02-27-2010, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by Mr_Shade:
Wow..

Must make some sense then http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


End of the day.. that's my opinion as a gamer, and is one shared by others.

But then again, I am a 'glass half full' type http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

listen, it's not that i don't think it will work.

i just don't feel that i should be treated as a criminal by being monitored whenever i am playing this game.

It's not the fact that it might not affect me, it's the fact that's it's even there.

I was going to buy your game anyways, and im on of millions of people with 10s of 10s of PC games in their collection and even more via DD like steam or direct download.

It's also kind of annoying that you put so much attention to pirates instead of your actual paying consumers.

I understand you hate pirates, but you should be thinking about increasing sales VIA incentives, not punishing everyone outright.

Look at EA for example, they have cutback on DRM and instead provide incentives for purchasing the game etc.

TheHeeyyy
02-27-2010, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by Mr_Shade:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by albiole:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr_Shade:

the DRM is there to protect PC gamers, and to help them



hahaha http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif to help them http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Might help if you quoted me correctly - think you missed a bit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But I might need to explain properly to you?

The new DRM allows you to install on unlimited PC's / amount of times.. and also allows you to not need the game disc in the drive.. something many PC gamers have wanted for a while, since the game disc's can become damaged with changing games etc..

Other methods, limit the install to 1 and/or require the disc present.. or don't work at all on some drives..

it's a shame that PC gaming is troubled with DRM at all - but due to people pirating the games, it's needed.. if those people paid for the games, and didn't just download everything they see, since they can, it wouldn't be needed at all...

Oh and that's my personal opinion - not the 'official ubisoft' one - since I know people like to quote http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The reason we focus on the downside is because we've seen a better alternative. Games with full Steamworks support offer all the benefits Ubisoft's new DRM will offer (online saves, unlimited installs, no requirement for disk in drive), and also don't have the downsides (don't require an online connection to play, won't boot you from the game and force you to go back to your last checkpoint if your internet drops-out). I don't understand why Ubisoft would go out of their way to create their own DRM system with these bad downsides, when they could've just done what Sega did and adopted Steamworks for all their upcoming PC games for free.

Cornik22
02-27-2010, 02:36 PM
Why do you guys keep complaining, when is so obvious what is going to happen? Between 3 and 4 days after the game is out hackers will release their patch to play offline. 2 months later Ubi will shut down ther servers and will release their own official patch. By July noone will remember this "brilliant" idea they had.

NightmareGK13
02-27-2010, 02:52 PM
what Cornik 22 suggested is a possiblity
but i also agree with BrianHannah
the adding of the figure with the special edition is one of the factors that is really appealing and im definitely buying this game
if more companies did the same by adding small incentives they have more buyers imo

as for piracy
its bound to happen sooner or later no matter how much protection you add it can always be hacked :\

BrianHanna
02-27-2010, 03:00 PM
Also, even if i ignore the DLC, i still believe that the release for this game was poorly done.

it took 6 months to do it, it cost 10 dollars more than other AAA pc games, and our reward for waiting is restriction.

it's insulting.

For evidence on how we feel, a game like AC2 should easily be in the top 5 games selling on steam at any given time, it isn't even in the top 10 anymore.

NightmareGK13
02-27-2010, 03:15 PM
ok that shut me up
im still buying it but
now that i think it toroughly it is pretty insulting
if i dont have internet connection i wont be able to play
can't say that is fair

maybe they'll (pirates) crack it open and eventually make an offline patch
they did it with GTA IV
or maybe some sense will come to ubisoft
still buying it
already made the reservation still cant wait :P

Cornik22
02-27-2010, 03:27 PM
Exactly. It's the irony behind DRM. If the game is easy to crack, the illegal version will be out in a couple of days. If it is hard to crack, it will attract the attention of a larger group of hackers, who will compete between them to be the first to crack the "uncrackable game". So it doesn't matter if the game is easy or hard to crack, the illegal version will be out in 3 or 4 days anyway.

albiole
02-27-2010, 03:30 PM
now we can only wait and after the 4th march we will see what is going to happen with the DRM

ozthrox
02-27-2010, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by Mr_Shade:

I will just remind people to remain civil, I understand this DRM issue can be scary to many, at present it's still an unknown process - we have told you the many aspects of it, and yet many still only see the downside.
I would like to echo the call to remain civil - throwing jibes only results in management writing you off as a troublemaker and not really listening to points.

The thing about DRM is there is only a downside for the consumer. The whole point of it is to restrict the functionality of the product in order to more closely match the licensing set out by the publisher. DRM itself can never have a "good side" because it doesn't offer anything of itself. While companies may suggest that they allow other features because of the DRM, it's not the DRM itself that's offering those features.

Take, for example, Sins of a Solar Empire (which has no DRM). I can install and play it on as many PCs as I like so the claim that DRM offers this ability is provably false. The reality is Ubi feels more comfortable relaxing their own artificial restrictions because they've added more artificial restrictions in other areas.

Next, take Steamworks (which offers a much more relaxed DRM). I can also install and play all my Steamworks games on as many PCs as I like and many of them support saving to the Steam Cloud. Again, it's not the DRM offering additional features in AC2 - it's just that Ubi is offering these features because they feel that their additional restrictions in other areas make it worth their while.


I think it's best to wait until the games that use it start to ship and then we all can take it from there.

I for one hope that many of you can put behind you any preconceptions you have, and at least give it the benefit of the doubt.
If we do that, the accountants at Ubi will simply say "look - no one cared about the DRM so it's a success". Once you purchase the game you've given Ubi the clear message that their latest DRM scheme is acceptable to you. The only choice a consumer has in sending a real messages to publishers is to simply not purchase the product. Like I mentioned before, the best way for consumers to deal with this is to hold off purchasing for long enough that the initial reporting of sales shows numbers significantly under predictions.

Alternate course of action would be to present complaints to consumer protection groups (like the ACCC here in Australia); or to take advantage of the return policy of your game store (this costs publishers and game stores money so is sure to get noticed); or to push your government representative into taking interest and possibly changing consumer laws to prevent companies from remotely deactivating licenses without due process.


I have to say that talk of 'hacking' the DRM is not going to help anyone - the DRM is there to protect PC gamers, and to help them - by being less restrictive than other methods.
No one should pirate games, but the reality is publishers of all types of media are in competition with pirates and while DRM is being presented as a means to combat piracy (which it has singluarly failed to do, but has been far more effective at eliminating the second-hand game market) then it's valid to talk about it. It's much like it being difficult to talk about car alarms without mentioning that people find ways to disable them in the process of stealing your car.

As mentioned before, DRM is neither there to protect or help the gamer. It exists solely to help the publisher because there's no feature of the DRM itself that does anything other than reduces the functionality of the end product.


Those of you calling for no DRM whatsoever - no one is saying you do have the right to be heard, but you should also accept the fact, that many people will agree it's needed...

Even more people may not even notice it working.. and can just play the game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Not having DRM on a game has been proven to work (again, see Sins of a Solar Empire) and to date there's been little, if any, success by the DRM manufacturers in reducing piracy despite the sales pitches they use to sell their products to publish houses like Ubi. The most effective methods of reducing piracy have been in value-added products being attached to game registration, particularly with after-market DLC. In short, the carrot has been working far better than the stick.

This particular DRM solution from Ubi will be noticed far more than any previous solution. Customers without "always-on" internet, customers that pay-per-megabyte for internet, customers with WiFi connections that drop now and then, customers impacted by the random internet glitches that any MMOG player will tell you are unavoidable and customers who are simply so technically inept that they can't keep their net connection stable to save themselves are all going to feel the pain of this DRM. Given the "50kbit" claim (which incidentally is about the peak bandwidth of a non-broadband connection), on a 40-hour playthrough of the game that adds to almost a gigabyte of traffic, which is certainly going to be noticed by anyone here in Australia where you have download caps starting at around a gigabyte on the cheaper plans.

Defending DRM is like defending region coding for movies. The studios tell people that it's to "reduce piracy" but as any non-US resident that has looked at importing movies not available in their local area can tell you, it results in far more harm to legitimate customers than the illegitimate ones.

While I appreciate that Ubi feels the need for DRM, it also needs to recognize that DRM which is too invasive is going to harm sales far more than piracy does. Whether this is the case for AC2 on the PC is still anyone's guess but for me, I'll be sending a message with my wallet.

Mr_Shade
02-27-2010, 06:53 PM
Well I'm glad that you can all feel so passionate about it, and post in a constructive way..


My comments should not be took out of context, I fully agree some people will not be happy.. rightly so in some cases,and to remind you my job only covers the forums, so it's not 'my' game.

I personally can assure you all that your comments are read, and reported on, since that is part of my job - so please don't think I was nagging at you, or asking to keep you quite - you have a right to be heard.

I just want to make sure that while doing so, you don't feel tempted to break any rules, thereby forcing me to remove your valid comments - as seen by some of the other 'rant' threads.

FiskMunk
02-27-2010, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by Mr_Shade:
I personally can assure you all that your comments are read, and coated in chocolate...

Shenanigans.

Matt_156
02-27-2010, 07:10 PM
it's amazing that Ubisoft is going through with this in the face of such overwhelming opposition from their customer base

LCGuardian
02-27-2010, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by Mr_Shade:
I have to say that talk of 'hacking' the DRM is not going to help anyone - the DRM is there to protect PC gamers, and to help them - by being less restrictive than other methods..


Personally, my gripe with the DRM is that some people simply will not be able to play. You say that other forms of DRM are restrictive - and that's true, but any PC gamer can play provided that they put up with those restrictions. Ubisoft's new DRM goes further than this. For a significant portion of people with unreliable internet connections, this completely prevents the game being played. I don't think a system which will drive otherwise legal purchasers to illegal activities just to play the game can ever be good, no matter how good any of the other elements are. I don't think that's a glass half empty argument - I simply think that a system requiring a constant internet connection is irredeemable.

Dunklindonuts
02-27-2010, 10:29 PM
Well here's an idea...how about all of you ******s that still actually play games like this on a PC, GET OUT OF THE [edit] 90's and buy the console version, and stop [edit] so much! It's not Ubi's fault you guys refuse to leave the 90's behind.

<span class="ev_code_RED">Please do not swear. Make your point using constructive comments please.</span>

ozthrox
02-27-2010, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by Dunklindonuts:
Well here's an idea...how about all of you ******s that still actually play games like this on a PC, GET OUT OF THE [edit] 90's and buy the console version, and stop [edit] so much! It's not Ubi's fault you guys refuse to leave the 90's behind.
The funny thing about posts like this is the PCs are far more capable gaming machines than the consoles these fanbois love, and consoles were running games before PCs (starting with the Atari 2600 in 1977).

So, console-boy, how about you get out of the 70s? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LCGuardian
02-27-2010, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by Dunklindonuts:
Well here's an idea...how about all of you ******s that still actually play games like this on a PC, GET OUT OF THE [edit] 90's and buy the console version, and stop [edit] so much! It's not Ubi's fault you guys refuse to leave the 90's behind.

There are any number of reasons why PC gamers play with a PC instead of a console. Who the hell are you to judge those reasons?

Windrius
02-28-2010, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by Dunklindonuts:
Well here's an idea...how about all of you ******s that still actually play games like this on a PC, GET OUT OF THE [edit]90's and buy the console version, and stop [edit] so much! It's not Ubi's fault you guys refuse to leave the 90's behind.

omfg srsly. People should stop letting 12 yo's into this forum >_>

What idiot actually thinks that consoles are better than PC xDD
LOL... You people are so funny.

Tristan_129
02-28-2010, 02:42 AM
Originally posted by FiskMunk:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr_Shade:
I personally can assure you all that your comments are read, and coated in chocolate...

Shenanigans. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stop that.
At least someone is risking his position here to help us, and like with Elisabeth of 2k Mr_Shade is our only connection to the guys who made this DRM.

FiskMunk
02-28-2010, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by Tristan_129:
Stop that.
At least someone is risking his position here to help us, and like with Elisabeth of 2k Mr_Shade is our only connection to the guys who made this DRM.

I know they do - I was merely bored, and replied to an altered quote.
I didn't mean to insinuate anything.

Windrius
02-28-2010, 03:49 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif UbiSoft could atleast give us some cookies so we wouldn't feel so bad about the new DRM http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

FiskMunk
02-28-2010, 04:25 AM
Originally posted by Windrius:
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif UbiSoft could atleast give us some cookies so we wouldn't feel so bad about the new DRM http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

These cookies you speak of, are we required to have a constant Internet connection in order to devour them?

ozthrox
02-28-2010, 04:44 AM
For those of us in Australia that feel concerned enough to do something I suggest filling out an online complaint at the ACCC: http://www.accc.gov.au/content...x.phtml/itemId/54217 (http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/54217)

I would suggest referring to inadequate warnings of a constant broadband connection required for playing given consumer expectations of a standalone product in a single player game. The ACCC tends to be quite responsive to this sort of complaint, having forced music publishers to make highly visible labels on "protected" CDs and the like. Really, the box should have a large and highly visible warning on the front cover, at least 1" by 2" that makes sure the consumer is aware of the restriction prior to purchase.

Remember, consumers have the right to be adequately informed of restrictions inherent in a product (especially if they are beyond the "normal") and publishers are legally required to make consumers aware of this or fall foul of deceptive marketing laws.

I'm sure other countries have similar avenues of complaint.

Mr_Shade
02-28-2010, 05:08 AM
Originally posted by FiskMunk:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr_Shade:
I personally can assure you all that your comments are read, and coated in chocolate...

Shenanigans. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I know you're bored.. or upset...
BUT

I have to address your post, due to the fact that countless trolls do read these forums and look for ANY reason to attack not only the DRM but also the moderation team and managers..

But if your going to question my personal integrity, the way I do my job, or think I'm going to lie to 'cover up', then your wrong... I am paid to do a job.. not to lie..



I will remind you that like any other user - I have the right to be quoted correctly.. and not have my genuine quotes used as 'merriment'.

And it's these types of 'joke' that can and do result in important and otherwise decent threads, being locked or trashed..

These people have a genuine reason for being upset.. so please.. no more ammo for the trolls

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

FiskMunk
02-28-2010, 06:05 AM
Originally posted by Mr_Shade:
These people have a genuine reason for being upset.. so please.. no more ammo for the trolls

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I was bored, and altered your comment so that it looked like you were claiming that our comments are coated in chocolate...
Wait, does that mean:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_xQBCml7iMkA/SUo6H-aCeFI/AAAAAAAADHo/CSrrhafO2rU/s400/bitethebullet.jpg

Tristan_129
02-28-2010, 07:12 AM
Originally posted by Mr_Shade:

I know your bored
>your


http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e293/MarsNova/GrammarNazi.jpg

No offence

Mr_Shade
02-28-2010, 07:19 AM
Well I'm glad that not everyone is so serious http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Fixed for you mr cat http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Subsim
02-28-2010, 09:11 AM
I dunno, if it works on the retail copies the way it did on my preview copy, I can live with it.

Silent Hunter 5 - Ubisoft's OSP examined (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PzqPuH4D8k)

Dellers
02-28-2010, 09:11 AM
This is just great...In two years Ubi decides to shut down the servers for "old" Games like AC2 and SC: Conviction, and we can't play it. Then we have to download the pirate version, to be able to play a single player game that we LEGALLY BOUGHT earlier. I will probably download the pirate version when it arrives, even though I will receive the game legally in the mail on the release date. My connection ain't that stable, and I will not go through a lot of frustration when it's avoidable. Thanks a bunch Ubi, for making us, the paying customers, the scapegoats. When we f*cking HAVE to download a crack to be able to enjoy a game we bought (I know some people WITHOUT an internet connection, and most people won't have internet at their cottage for instance), then you're making enemies of your friends, even though we didn't do anything to become your enemies. We're your enemies, but you're not ours. Someone has FAILED.

rutix
02-28-2010, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by Dragonfire126:
Yeah, but the game pauses when the connection is interrupted and gives you the ability to save before you continue. So, you will go through the entire game, only with some interrupts.

and those interrupts will be annoying if you ge tthem every 5 minutes >.>.

TBH the only explaination i have is that ubisoft is doing this to kill the pc audience. It has been proven that DRM doesn't solve anything! Even steam works offline and only requires internet connection when you activate it. It's just stupid that they went with this DRM

cooldude6681
02-28-2010, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by Dragonfire126:
If you have an unstable internet connection, you can't pirate the game right? The file would be to big and the download would be interupted. Actually, you can. The nature of the bittorrent protocol allows interrupted downloads to resume on their own, and provides for error-checking. And now that another internet user is slightly less ignorant, I will proceed to say:

I have no intention of purchasing a Ubisoft PC game with this type of DRM (which, unfortunately, means I'll not be playing any new Ubi PC games until Ubi comes up with a more intelligent system). I'm even strongly considering not purchasing SC:Conviction for Xbox 360 (which is saying something, as I have purchased and own [the licenses for] 8 copies of 5 different SC games). I've been a Ubisoft fan for a long time, but this DRM is just a horrible idea. There is no way that the IT team that deals with the DRM servers (or even the edge routers) is happy with this implementation, what with the HUGE amount of network traffic it would cause.

I will continue to play Ubisoft games on the Xbox 360 (likely not purchasing them, just borrowing), and play and purchase non-Ubi games for my PC.

[/rage-induced rant]

[EDIT]
I think I'm also going to add that this DRM implementation opens up the possibility of a class action lawsuit from every ISP that has to deal with 'undue stress on the network' due to the constant heartbeat. I'm just sayin'.

daydark87
02-28-2010, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by AgentValentine:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by far-cry:
You remember last month when I told you all about Ubisoft's new DRM plans? Well, it seems like they lied about one specific feature. The game doesn't pause when you lose connection, it kicks you out of the game.

There is an error in the article which is to be cleared up I’m told. The game DOES pause if connection is lost, and remains in the pause menu while it tries to reconnect indefinitely. However this is only the case so long as the player does not interrupt the process by trying to access the games menu etc.

I would also add if connection is only lost for a few seconds play continues as normal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That doesn't excuse the fact that you have to be online to play an offline game, you know. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well technically, it wouldn't really be a offline game then.

mojsarn
02-28-2010, 09:11 AM
The game has auto saving so you dont have to worry about saves.
Know that it wont make you happier but I understand your concerns, but dont blame it on Ubisoft, I cant see any other solution.

Dragonfire126
02-28-2010, 09:11 AM
If you have an unstable internet connection, you can't pirate the game right? The file would be to big and the download would be interupted. How about this; Buy the game. Yes, i said it. BUY it. and then snoop around on the web to "fix" the DRM problem.

AuroraElika
02-28-2010, 09:11 AM
Let's see my experience with Ubisoft PC games

Splinter Cell Chaos Theory wouldn't run on my Windows XP x64.
Beyond Good and Evil will clean the installation on Windows 7 x64. I still haven't got it to work.
Prince of Persia no extra DLC.

I wonder who's hurting the sales more...pirates or DRM.

Tracazoid
02-28-2010, 09:11 AM
I know how you all feel, I am a huge Ubisoft fan(Have most or all major titles from Prince of Persia, Rainbow, Splintercell, Ghost Recon), and of course Assassin's Creed.

I bought the original for PC, and decided to wait until the PC version of the sequel...sadly for the company I don't think I may buy any of there games anymore. I even wanted to work at there Toronto branch sometime in the future, but if the company is this bad I don't think I would want to.

I think other then Conviction(Which I have been waiting for years) I think I may be done with Ubisoft games if they keep this up. I know for a fact I'm passing of Assassin's Creed 2 now.

Serpantino
02-28-2010, 09:11 AM
Know that it wont make you happier but I understand your concerns, but dont blame it on Ubisoft, I cant see any other solution.

I can.... Don't do it. People aren't likely to go pirate over buying just because they can. I could have pirated mass effect 2 easily but I bought it because it was worth it. At the end of the day the people who don't want to pay for it, won't and there's not a thing Ubisoft can do about it. Until quantum computing I doubt there will be any DRM that can't be cracked or bypassed in a week by a team in the know. All Ubisoft's chosen method does is alienate the audience that would have bought it.

Serpantino
02-28-2010, 09:11 AM
They're not thinking..... That or they're trying to screw over the pc gamers to con them into paying extra for the console version. Like I said in another post, this is only going to detract from their sales and encourage piracy of games that utilize this. I won't buy a game with such liabilities even if it is a stunner. It makes me far more likely to go the illegal route because I know all this restrictive rubbish will be ripped out of it.

DerelictHuman
02-28-2010, 09:11 AM
Dragonfire126, you're trolling the forum harsh...

AgentValentine
02-28-2010, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by far-cry:
You remember last month when I told you all about Ubisoft's new DRM plans? Well, it seems like they lied about one specific feature. The game doesn't pause when you lose connection, it kicks you out of the game.

There is an error in the article which is to be cleared up I’m told. The game DOES pause if connection is lost, and remains in the pause menu while it tries to reconnect indefinitely. However this is only the case so long as the player does not interrupt the process by trying to access the games menu etc.

I would also add if connection is only lost for a few seconds play continues as normal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That doesn't excuse the fact that you have to be online to play an offline game, you know.

AgentValentine
02-28-2010, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by mojsarn:
The game has auto saving so you dont have to worry about saves.
Know that it wont make you happier but I understand your concerns, but dont blame it on Ubisoft, I cant see any other solution.

I can.

Don't use this DRM. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif It's unpopular and will harm sales.

Use Steam. It's popular and people will actually buy the game instead of illegally downloading it.

mrstivo
02-28-2010, 09:11 AM
I choose to buy games over pirating. My choice is to support the game creators hoping that they will release future titles.

I use Steam for all of my purchases and I accept and understand the need for various levels of DRM. I don't like it but I accept it. I can tolerate a game that requires activation at installation or occasionally phones home.

But requiring a constant connection to Ubisoft's activation servers is taking things too far. There are too many things I can't control that could make the game unplayable.

Technical reasons aside, what really bothers me is that Ubisoft assumes I am a criminal and needs to constantly watch what I'm doing while playing their games. I won't accept this.

PowerSteak
02-28-2010, 09:11 AM
Yep, I was looking forward to ACII and for the first time in gaming I'm purposefully not buying a game thanks to it's DRM.

This is a stupid, absurd method of anti-piracy that ignores the already viable methods. It puts the decision to play the game entirely out of the consumers hands, there are myriad situations where the connection to servers won't work.

kleaneasy
02-28-2010, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by far-cry:
You remember last month when I told you all about Ubisoft's new DRM plans? Well, it seems like they lied about one specific feature. The game doesn't pause when you lose connection, it kicks you out of the game.

There is an error in the article. the game DOES pause if connection is lost, and remains in the pause menu while it tries to reconnect indefinitely. However this is only the case so long as the player does not interrupt the process by trying to access the games menu etc.

I would also add if connection is only lost for a few seconds play continues as normal.

BrianHanna
02-28-2010, 09:11 AM
yea it's true and it makes no sense.

of course, console fanboys will tell us to stop QQ'ing.

even though they have a freakin petition going for a patch to replay levels.

This keeps us from playing a single player game.

viberunner
02-28-2010, 09:11 AM
As I've said before, you should compare to MW2. Like MW2 AC2 sold millions on the consoles.

But MW2 only sold tends of thousands on the PC, but it was downloaded millions of times. Around 3% (UK) of the sales of MW2 came from the PC, but on the torrent sites millions and millions of downloads.

Heavy-handed DRC on the PC is happening for a reason.

Larry2013
02-28-2010, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by viberunner:
As I've said before, you should compare to MW2. Like MW2 AC2 sold millions on the consoles.

But MW2 only sold tends of thousands on the PC, but it was downloaded millions of times. Around 3% (UK) of the sales of MW2 came from the PC, but on the torrent sites millions and millions of downloads.

And, appropriately, Ubi prices the console games 70-100% higher than the PC versions. They know where they have a captive audience, and from whence they can squeeze the most revenue, without a doubt.


Heavy-handed DRC on the PC is happening for a reason.

To provide a reason to drop PC versions of games? "Oh, our ACII title only sold at 33% of projected volume. Clearly, there's not an audience out there for this game. We need to focus on our (paying) console consumer base."

DRM ONLY PUNISHES PAYING CUSTOMERS -- until they get fed up and vote with their wallets, at which point, DRM only punishes game publishers...

Extronic6
02-28-2010, 09:11 AM
So this means I can't play this game. I don't have an Internet connection out here. Unless I drive 30km to a town with an Internet Cafe I have no connection, how am I to play this game? Obviously I can't, which means I will not be buying it now. I'll have to stick with other non-Ubisoft games, especially if they do this for all future games.

Dellers
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by Dragonfire126:
Yeah, but the game pauses when the connection is interrupted and gives you the ability to save before you continue. So, you will go through the entire game, only with some interrupts.
According to Ubisoft that's not the case with AC2. When you lose connection to the servers you will have to start over from the last save, and everything you did just before will get lost.

adarwinter
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
to this date i havent been able to connect to UBISOFT to play Farcry 2 online. i bought the game on day 1(day 2 actually but its close enough) and for more than a year of trying occasionally i couldnt log in.

same for GTAIV, almost. i played online for about a year. then stopped for a couple of months. when i tried to get online again i just couldnt. GFWL wouldnt let me. had errors and to this day i cant play GTAIV online either.

ever since farcry 2 i bought about 7 games. 2 of which i can't get online for. thankfully FC2 and GTAIV are marvelous offline games so im not crying too much about it although i rightfully should BUT this means that i have a statistic of about 27% to not be able to log in online.

there is NO WAY IN HELL i am taking a chance of about 25% that the game wont work for me. even if it does work for me 90% of the time but in 10% of the time i cant log in (for whatever reason) im going to be sooooooooooo pi$$ed i cant play although reason saying i should.

buttom line - AC2 was supposed to be my birthday gift but i told my friends to skip it cuz i dont trust it and never will.

know when i WILL buy the game? - when it's cracked and there will be some sort of insurance for me.

funny, no?

looplick
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
I will NOT be buying this DRM disaster. What a joke!

monkeyuncle8
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
the drm is so stupid, they want people to stop getting the game for free, but with the drm so many people are going to hack it and with the drm you can just give it to a friend have them download it once and they can play forever

monkeyuncle8
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
the drm will not last I can say that right now
it will not benefit people enough
someone will make a patch for it and everyone will download that
a lot of people are going to boycot it
also this has been tried before and failed
I would say were about to see an internet version of prohibition

Corscaria
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
The last game that has totalitarian DRM was Spore. And it was no where near as bad as what i've been reading about here. And you know what happened on Spore's release day? Almost no one bought the game, but tens of millions were playing it.

No one likes DRM, especially hard worling people who want to spend thier money to BUY a great game. My ISP sucks @$$, they drop the connection several times a day and claim it's normal. And they are the only broadband in town. As such, i will not be buying AC2 on release. Even though i have been looking forward to it since i finished AC1. Instead i will wait for a patch to be released that either removes the DRM or atleast modifies the DRM to be more customer friendly (such as only checking in once a month). The extreme nature of the DRM is completely unacceptable.

mc2w
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by mojsarn:
The game has auto saving so you dont have to worry about saves.
Know that it wont make you happier but I understand your concerns, but dont blame it on Ubisoft, I cant see any other solution.

I hardly call putting on restrictions that cause MORE piracy a "solution" to begin with.

Dragonfire126
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
"DRM Fails,Dragonfire126 is trying to prove his fanboyism and...

Well thats about it."

Well, i like the game, that's why i bought it. But fanboy is an overstatement. I'm just saying that Ubisoft is saying F U to all those pirates out there and yes, maybe some real buyers might get some problems, but then the buyers should confront the pirates. And you can't. So Ubisoft tries this for you.

Dragonfire126
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
"According to Ubisoft that's not the case with AC2. When you lose connection to the servers you will have to start over from the last save, and everything you did just before will get lost."

Well, the game saves after almost everything you do, so for example after a mission it saves, when you open a chest and get money it saves, when you collect a feather it saves, so there is absolutly no way you will lose someting because of the interrupts. Or ofcourse when your internet says "LOL NO!" during saving :P.

Dragonfire126
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
"If they wanted to earn something from their work, they shouldn't treat their customers like criminals, while the real criminals (pirates) get away with a working game that doesn't need internet connection scott free. :O"

They are giving you an awesome game with a DRM that is solid in my opinion. They're actually very close to a solution to pirating. the "pirates" can play the game when they fix the DRM "issue", but all the save games are stored on a ubisoft server and the save games can't be locally saved because of encryption. Yes, not only do you need an internet connection to play the game, you also need one to load a game.

Dragonfire126
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
If your connection breaks every 5 minutes, then i think you should blame the company that gives you internet, not ubisoft for trying to actually earn something from their work.

Dragonfire126
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
it can't be the countries fault because the internet is delivered by companies in that country.

Dragonfire126
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
Yeah, but the game pauses when the connection is interrupted and gives you the ability to save before you continue. So, you will go through the entire game, only with some interrupts.

Dragonfire126
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by DerelictHuman:
Dragonfire126, you're trolling the forum harsh...

They see me trolling, thet hattin'

AuroraElika
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
Oh I forgot to mention in my previous post. Where's the support for my not working Splinter Cell and Beyond Good & Evil? All publishers can claim they will support their draconian DRM game later years but so far the track record isn't there. Will they still have Assassin's Creed 2 server up and running 5-6 years from now even with only 1 person playing it? There is no financial incentive to keep the server running(no one is buying the game anymore and it's costing money for server hosting and maintenance), so why would they?

I think most PC game player can live with DRM that check for CD and if the cd is not available then online check.


Originally posted by Tracazoid:
I think other then Conviction(Which I have been waiting for years) I think I may be done with Ubisoft games if they keep this up. I know for a fact I'm passing of Assassin's Creed 2 now.
Crap I might not get to play Conviction. This seriously sucks.

Madubu
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
Best way they had to fight piracy:
- don't create this stupid DRM
- Use the DRM development money to simply lower the game price. The main reason to piracy is the absurd prices, just by lowering the price they wolud sell way more.

They just found (DRM) the best way there is to encourage piracy!!!

albiole
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by Dragonfire126:
If your connection breaks every 5 minutes, then i think you should blame the company that gives you internet, not ubisoft for trying to actually earn something from their work.

and when I live in a country where the connection is low and breaks every 5 min. should I blame the country?

estutzer
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
I've read several articles in which they describe the "perks" of the DRM (there are only three):

1. No disc required.

Sure this is a lovely feature, but I would rather deal with the hassle of carrying around a cd everywhere than having to deal with the internet. At least with the cd, everything is in my hands. If I scratched it, well that was my fault. But if the servers break down, or my internet is temporarily disconnected... that is all entirely out of my hands, I have no control over those issues, and there is nothing I can do except sit and stare at the useless cd.

2. You can install it on as many pc's as you want.

This doesn't really help me. I have a laptop, and a desktop at home. So there's two computers I would use it with on a regular basis. If I wanted to play it on any other computers, I'd have to install it on those first. And guess what I would need to use to do that? The CD. Which I would need to have to play on them without the DRM anyways. Why not just limit the number of installations, it seems much better for the average consumer. I can't think of many people who need 12 different locations on which to play a game.

3. Saved games on the Ubisoft Servers.

I guess this could come in handy, but I've never really had much of a problem the old fashioned way of saving it locally.

Well, I'm guessing that a lot of honest customers will be driven to pirate some version that would allow them to play offline. I personally am just going to ignore this game (which will be difficult cause it looked awesome). Hopefully Ubisoft will learn their lesson after a few weeks and just install that patch to take it offline.

AgentValentine
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by Dragonfire126:
If your connection breaks every 5 minutes, then i think you should blame the company that gives you internet, not ubisoft for trying to actually earn something from their work.

If they wanted to earn something from their work, they shouldn't treat their customers like criminals, while the real criminals (pirates) get away with a working game that doesn't need internet connection scott free. :O

leckig
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
I am not buying anything ubisoft anymore. The Operation Flashpoint 2 online component was such a giant fail, I dont trust these guys know how to make anything work online.

TheHeeyyy
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by far-cry:
You remember last month when I told you all about Ubisoft's new DRM plans? Well, it seems like they lied about one specific feature. The game doesn't pause when you lose connection, it kicks you out of the game.

There is an error in the article. the game DOES pause if connection is lost, and remains in the pause menu while it tries to reconnect indefinitely. However this is only the case so long as the player does not interrupt the process by trying to access the games menu etc.

I would also add if connection is only lost for a few seconds play continues as normal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Still doesn't make-up for the fact someone who buys this game legally will have to be connected to the internet to play this game, while pirates will be able to play the cracked version without needing to be connected online.

Wonderglue
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by Dragonfire126:
"DRM Fails,Dragonfire126 is trying to prove his fanboyism and...

Well thats about it."

Well, i like the game, that's why i bought it. But fanboy is an overstatement. I'm just saying that Ubisoft is saying F U to all those pirates out there and yes, maybe some real buyers might get some problems, but then the buyers should confront the pirates. And you can't. So Ubisoft tries this for you.

TL;DR coming:

Everyone likes the game. I was trying to say that you are defending Ubisoft with their new DRM even tho they are going over the top.

You are playing on a Console so that doesn't affect you,but pirates aren't a big problem as you may think.

Since Ubisoft thinks that Every PC user is connected to the Internet,how come they don't think that every console user is also connected?

Chances that you don't have a Internet on your console are the same as not having a Internet on your PC.

And while PS3 games cannot be pirated at full,Xbox360 games are pirated daily as well PC games are,but only a little higher (Around 20-30% more).

Ubisoft has every right to protect their games,but this DRM has gone far enough already and it hasn't even been released. You can just google it to see how much controversy has been caused by the people.

Whats wrong with a simple CD Check? Or a One Time Internet Check?

"They are easy to crack"

Sure they are. But this new DRM will also be easy to crack,and while Ubisoft knows that,why do they keep it then?

I feel sorry for the people who made this great game. They are going to suffer because of one guy who thought the DRM will be a great idea.

They cannot lose sales because of the pirates,since pirates will never buy the game even if it's not cracked. They can only gain more sales by providing additional content for the legal buyers and not forcing anyone on a slave contract. (Meaning i can't play when i want,how long i want because of the following;Router Problems,ISP Problems,Ubisoft Server Problems etc.)

And no one should force me to buy a different Internet Connection from another ISP. Some people can't choose,and some of them don't have internet at all.

My router is garbage,it hangs up often. But it's my piece of Garbage.

I think Ubisoft is trying to make a poor excuse to stop making PC games and move to consoles.

But even if they move to consoles,it's not like i'm gonna miss them. PC gaming is far from dead,but then again i love developers who make Multiplatform games for all systems and none of that "Exclusive" bull**** that has been going on for the past few years.

You might as well say i'm whining because of all that,and yes i am. I'm seriously ****ed off.
But hell,i'm gonna play the game anyways.

Just my opinion on all that.

An_Idea
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
dragonfire there is an edit button for a reason, if you need help its there so you dont quadruple post.

now i may be a "fanboy" because ubi is probably my favorite game publisher and ubi montreal is definitely my favorite developer, but this is absolute bs, i dont have a comp to handle ac so i bought the 360 version. but a constant net connection? that is encouraging piracy, nothing is hack proof and the fact that, once hacked the game will be more viable, cheaper and all around convenient than the retail version is just asking for people to stop buying ubisoft products and more likely pirating them.

ubi also pretty much said they will stop making as many wii games. so i suggest they dont alienate the pc market, however small that might be in comparison to the ps360 market

BrianHanna
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by viberunner:
As I've said before, you should compare to MW2. Like MW2 AC2 sold millions on the consoles.

But MW2 only sold tends of thousands on the PC, but it was downloaded millions of times. Around 3% (UK) of the sales of MW2 came from the PC, but on the torrent sites millions and millions of downloads.

Heavy-handed DRC on the PC is happening for a reason.

you are an idiot!

the only people who DRM affects are legitimate buyers!

Pirates will get around it!

How does it make any sense to only punish the people who are buying your game anyways!?

all this will do is make people who would legitimately buy the game not buy it, in an effort to reduce piracy, they will fail, and increase piracy and decrease sales.

It makes no sense!

Do you think a legitimate user is going to start pirating if DRM wasnt there?

They were paying for it before when it had DRM, why would they not pay for it when it isnt there?!

shponglefan
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by Dragonfire126:
Yeah, but the game pauses when the connection is interrupted and gives you the ability to save before you continue. So, you will go through the entire game, only with some interrupts.

Or we could buy games from other companies and play them interrupt-free.

SneakyStabz
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by Dragonfire126:

They are giving you an awesome game with a DRM that is solid in my opinion. They're actually very close to a solution to pirating. the "pirates" can play the game when they fix the DRM "issue", but all the save games are stored on a ubisoft server and the save games can't be locally saved because of encryption. Yes, not only do you need an internet connection to play the game, you also need one to load a game.

Actually the game saves both locally and on Ubisoft's servers. Saying this is close to a solution for software piracy is just ignorant. People who pirate the game will not connect to Ubisofts servers at all, so how is this solving the problem. If your computer to can read and interpret the sorce code, someone else can use the same computer to open the source code and edit it. If your computer can use the information, someone else can crack it, period. The harder you try to prevent it the more of a challenge you offer someone to crack it, people like a challenge and often spend more time just to show it can be done. This will only affect paying customers, who should be rewarded for their loyalty not punished with further hassles. I predict AC2 will be the most pirated game of 2010 lol!

ShinedBrass
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
I've only just found out about this DRM stuff and even tho my internet connection is quite reliable as an for instance I had an outage replying to this message, now that I am aware of UBI softs new DRM I have informed my two friends that I oftern game with about it and we have all come to the descision that we will not purchase any games with this form of DRM they are also telling those who they game with about it as until today 21/07/2010 we had no idea it was coming into force.

Not good UBIsoft not good at all, we were loyal customers with owning nearly every game you've ever created, youve lost the 3 of us and probably the 3 gamers each that they played with, do the calcuations guys, this is soon gona start hitting you in the pocket realy badly.

LCGuardian
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by Dragonfire126:
"According to Ubisoft that's not the case with AC2. When you lose connection to the servers you will have to start over from the last save, and everything you did just before will get lost."

Well, the game saves after almost everything you do, so for example after a mission it saves, when you open a chest and get money it saves, when you collect a feather it saves, so there is absolutly no way you will lose someting because of the interrupts. Or ofcourse when your internet says "LOL NO!" during saving :P.

I love how flippant you are over people's problems - actually no, I hate it. Let me start by saying that I will be buying it for PC, and I have a reliable internet connection. With that, do I go into PC threads and say gamers need to put up with it? No, I recognize the problems this will cause for a lot of people. I don't argue that Ubisoft have a right to try to prevent piracy. What you seem to have overlooked, with your console gaming blinkers on, is that this DRM isn't the answer.

rutix
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
First of all nice triple posting Dragonfire126.

Thank god the saves are still stored locally. But i will still probably use a crack when it gets released just because its less hassle and more fool proof. The people who say the drm actually helps fighting against piracy should think again because that certainly isnt the case.

adarwinter
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
i want the ability to have saves that will be stored locally so i can replay certain parts of the game.

this is just one of the things that irritate me. AC1 didnt have a good way to replay mission blocks (u COULD but only from the beginning with no way to save in the middle of replaying a mem-block. after quitting the game u will have to start a second play through from the beginning of every mem-block) and i had to back up my saves every once in a while so i can go back in my story progress.

if i cant have numerous save slots than that's another good reason to hate the DRM.

Mr_Shade
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by OzThrox:

Short of offering a legally binding contract to the effect that they'd do this, there's no reason to believe they would no matter what their intentions are right now.

If for whatever reason sometime in the future the servers do have to be took offline, Ubisoft will release a patch to allow the game to still be played.


Originally posted by adarwinter:
i want the ability to have saves that will be stored locally so i can replay certain parts of the game.

if i cant have numerous save slots than that's another good reason to hate the DRM. Your saves are local - but you also have a back up online... incase you have a drive problem, or you accidentally delete one..


The option replaying missions, is down to the game design, not the DRM.

bhfo
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
I won't be buying this game and they lost 4 other sales amongst my friends. It is just ridiculous that would even try something like this. it is short sighted and completely fail. and the main problem is when they have next to no sales, they'll blame piracy.

ozthrox
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by BTOG46:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OzThrox:
It is very rare for a company to retroactively patch their DRM out of a game

And something Ubi have done on several PC titles in the last year already, just because they didn't do it for all games, doesn't mean they don't do it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm more than happy to be proven wrong. Which titles, just out of curiosity?

ozthrox
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by mc2w:
As much as I hate this DRM, I thought it might be worth pointing out that Ubisoft would likely release a patch to allow you to play without an internet connection as soon as they take down the AC2 server.
They haven't released patches for any of their games that don't support newer operating systems (Splinter Cell series for example) so I have no faith at all that they would release a patch for AC2 prior to switching off the server.

Short of offering a legally binding contract to the effect that they'd do this, there's no reason to believe they would no matter what their intentions are right now.

ozthrox
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by Mr_Shade:

If for whatever reason sometime in the future the servers do have to be took offline, Ubisoft will release a patch to allow the game to still be played.
Like I said, I want to believe you and I'm sure you intend to right now but Ubi's history with releasing patches to allow games to still be played hasn't been encouraging. I own several games that are unplayable right now due to incompatibilities between the DRM systems and the latest versions (and not-so-latest versions) of Windows and calls for Ubi to release patches to remedy the situation seem to fall of deaf ears.

Of course, this complaint also applies to any sort of online activation/verification scheme and not just the "mandatory online all-the-time" DRM being introduced by Ubi with AC2, so don't feel that I'm singling you out here. It is very rare for a company to retroactively patch their DRM out of a game and typically it only happened with the mess that was StarForce. From a business point of view, the value of spending the development and publishing dollars to remove it for no tangible return on that investment is very difficult to justify.

So, ultimately, for any sort of online activation scheme and especially for a continual verification scheme the best that can be said is you're relying on the good intentions of a large company to allow you to continue enjoying the license for the entertainment you've purchased.

Tristan_129
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
UBisoft and patching?
That's a new one. The only patch I ever remembered was released (for PC) was the Sands of Time patch. The game needs some new patching regarding the fog bug, but well, at least you guys did made a patch.Once.

Even Beyond Good and Evil, one of the most respected games, needed a patch. The 1.01 wasn't really helping at all. But thankfully, a fellow programmer did make an unofficial patch to work things out.

Also, I am still waiting for the patch for the really bugged PC-port of Prince of Persia Warrior Within for like...6 years?
I mean, if this game would've been released by Valve, I am sure the bugs and glitched would've been fix'd by now. Especially the sound bugs and the Sand Warith one, and well, the same Fog-bug.
Same goes to Two Thrones. BTW, are you still releasing Two Thrones with the insult of a CD-protection called Star Force? Haven't you even tried to release a tool to remove the unneccessary protection like EA does?

Tristan_129
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by rutix:

Thank god the saves are still stored locally.

At least it's something, but I still won't waste 50 € for that.

mc2w
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
As much as I hate this DRM, I thought it might be worth pointing out that Ubisoft would likely release a patch to allow you to play without an internet connection as soon as they take down the AC2 server.

But otherwise this DRM is pathetic.

HTWingNut
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
I'd like to see what the console boys would say if they did the same thing on the consoles, require a constant internet connection.

XBOX 360 games are pirated almost as much as PC games, so why not implement the same measure on consoles?

I'm sorry, but Ubisoft is just a poor terd of a company that has no clue what they're doing. This is the most ******ed form of DRM I have ever heard of.

This DragonFire dork will be the first one here whining when his internet connection drops too.

Either way as everyone else has noted, this punishes the legal buyer. The pirate has no consequences. I guess they're just interested in selling to stupid people while the intelligent ones don't buy it or pirate it and play it DRM free.

Sorry Ubi, you've lost my sales, PC or console, from here to eternity until you drop this load of bull.

Thank you for encouraging pirating, not fighting it.

Dragonfire126
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
"Or we could buy games from other companies and play them interrupt-free."

That is your own choice. If you disagree with someone's actions you respond in your own way. Not buying the game is your choice. Making/Using a DRM is Ubisofts choice.

Unstop4ever
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
I was willing to buy the game even after the stupid delay. Now I'm not even gonna set foot in the store. Way to go Ubisoft. YOU JUST LOST MONEY!!

Archabacteria
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
My only response to the new DRM can be heard in AC1. "INFIDEL DIE!" Incidentally, it seems Ubisoft created its own argument against this.

'Course, I have broadband, but how about traveling? I think some accommodation can be made for those of us who take our games with us.

I personally only protest the part where we must be connected. Not to say that I support piracy, but I'll probably get a crack if there is one.

sswehrwolf
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by BrianHanna:
yea it's true and it makes no sense.

of course, console fanboys will tell us to stop QQ'ing.


I love console fanboys. There was an article the other day i came across, but i cant find it, which ****es me off to no end, but in essence it talked about why cross platform gaming hasnt happened yet. The answer, because PC gamers with mouse and keyboard just plain DESTROYED console players, and due to that unfair advantage, most companies took out cross platforming.

Was an interesting article that gave me a helluva LoL after reading it.

BTOG46
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by OzThrox:
It is very rare for a company to retroactively patch their DRM out of a game

And something Ubi have done on several PC titles in the last year already, just because they didn't do it for all games, doesn't mean they don't do it.

Wonderglue
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
DRM Fails,Dragonfire126 is trying to prove his fanboyism and...

Well thats about it.

shponglefan
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
I'm just saying that Ubisoft is saying F U to all those pirates out there

Except they're not, since the second this is cracked then the whole thing is moot.

SneakyStabz
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by HTWingNut:
XBOX 360 games are pirated almost as much as PC games, so why not implement the same measure on consoles?


LOL shhhhh... don't give them any great ideas, my console loses wireless connection every time someone turns on the microwave http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

defqon.
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by Dellers:

According to Ubisoft that's not the case with AC2. When you lose connection to the servers you will have to start over from the last save, and everything you did just before will get lost.

THATS THE PROBLEM DOINT YOU SE THAT ? WHY SHUT SOME ONE THAT GOT A $ VERSION HAVE TO DEAL WHIT THAT ? THERE IS A PROBLEM WHIT PC AND ILLAGAL DOWNLOUDS BUT THIS NOT A SULUTION

(sorry for caps)

FiskMunk
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by Mr_Shade:
If for whatever reason sometime in the future the servers do have to be took offline, Ubisoft will release a patch to allow the game to still be played.

...And if we have unreliable Internet that randomly disconnects all the time? Will we be forced to wait (not 4) but 18 months, then?

ShinedBrass
02-28-2010, 09:12 AM
My thoughts on DRM, merely a suggestion, poke holes at will.

User downloads game from steam or User buys disk version of game ( every game has a unique CD or Download ID code )
User then HAS TO register game with ubisoft with a valid E-Mail address ( no gmails or msns ) a unique block of data is sent to ubisoft
which gives ubisoft sufficient hardware detail to identify the PC on which the game is installed.
User gets provided with a unique activation key via e-mail which is tied to thier unique ID code.

Scenario (1): User gets a new PC.
User uninstalls software which deactivates the activation in effect rolling it back to not installed.
User installs new hardware, installs game again as above.
If they dont then scenario becomes the same as

Scenario (2): Users hard drive dies.
User contacts Ubisoft with code sent with game, activation code is marked as de registered,
game can be re-registered; however if the old activation code is re-used after the new one or before the new one is registered the game
will lock on the machine with the old code and will not run again until the user with the old code contacts Ubisoft.

Validation:
Periodicly before starting the game - say every 3 runs the game attempts to contact Ubisoft and validate its credentials, It will tell
the user 1st and they will have to type in a word to confirm that thier internet connection is up, it will then check communications to
ubis server and then talk to Ubis server in a way that only UBI knows which will change from time to time dependant on date / time without
the users knowledge. It will check to make sure it can talk before screwing things up and then do its validation, if it fails it locks.

Consequences:
If this occurs 5 times then Ubisoft is quite within thier rights as far as I'm concerned to perminantly block that Unique id code and all
activations associated with it, and lets face it you'd have to be damned unlucky to have the above events occur one after the other
within a 2 1/2 - 3 year period by which time the game is probably done it's dash and youve moved on to bigger and better.

Also.... ( Barring steam where you can't onsell software as 2nd hand ) this would allow you to re-sell the game after youv'e played it and
from Ubisofts perspective surely that must be free advertising and no piracy.

the amolang
02-28-2010, 09:16 AM
ha, I'm sorry to say this but its really going to do no good... why would they change after working on this system for months? Its not a great system, but too bad for us gamers. they MAKE the game, so they have the POWER to do this.

obliviondoll
02-28-2010, 09:16 AM
Basically, this DRM is stupid. I'm sorry, ubi, but it is. Fortunately, I'm running on PS3, so it won't impact too much on my personal experience, but everyone knows what will happen.

Anyone with unreliable internet connection (or no internet at home - it happens) will get a pirated copy, when they would have made the sale if they used a more conventional DRM. They're going to cheat themselves out of sales. Because no matter HOW good your code is, it WILL get cracked. Something like this is just ASKING people to do so.

Anyone remember a game called Homeworld? It was promoted on release as being "unmoddable." Within a month, the first mods started coming out. It was less than 2 more weeks before people were releasing level editors and SDKs for the game. The next patch reworked the game's file structure to make it more modder-friendly.

Point being, this "uncrackable" security isn't going to last that long. There are more people, more active, and more stubborn about being able to break these codes, than there were over 10 years ago when Homeworld came out.

PurpleHaze1980
02-28-2010, 09:16 AM
I'm most disappointed to read about this - in fact, this basically means myself (as well as many others) will be not buying the game just because we can't stay connected 24/7. Some people have to pay for their internet connections as they go so they're burning additional money WHILE they play which should never be the case.

I do believe that Ubisoft CAN turn the tables though if many people disagree and boycott the game. Surely they can find a BETTER solution than this...there's no point in them PUNISHING their customers for something people who don't buy the games do.

mojsarn
02-28-2010, 09:16 AM
If you can prevent people from copying the game or atleast come up with a better solution, then maybe, Ubisoft will reconsider.

NeonXXV
02-28-2010, 09:16 AM
I wonder if Ubi will release the patch to remove this IDIOTIC DRM right after it is circumvented (which I guess will happen even before the street release of the game or a day after).

If they are not going to remove the DRM after it's broken, I don't see the point of NOT circumventing the protection of your original game. It only makes life worse for the customer, while pirates will gladly play the game offline, without the CD, anytime, without sending their saves to Ubisoft. :/

caswallawn_2k7
02-28-2010, 09:16 AM
And we're supposed to BUY the game, aren't we? They don't have the power to force us do that.
Instead, they rather figured that if they made us unwilling to purchase the game, they would make profit.
Reverse psychology?
did you see the anti MW2 petition steam group the day MW2 launched? about 90% of the people who joined it to protest against the game and saying they would never buy it were playing it.

it's all good and well to start a petition and I bet you get a lot of people against it, but I put money on the majority of people who vote here saying they don't want it and wont get it until the DRM is removed are playing the first day.

just in this case the standard user has no way of seeing how much of a failure it is trying to get people to keep their word.

you might stop a handful of people getting the game but the vast majority will get it no matter what is in it.

Pankratz1980
02-28-2010, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by Windrius:
Well.. I'm against the new system. But lets just let ubisoft see how many buyers they'll lose and I think they will release the patch.

If they promise to release patches for every game after a while, I'm going to buy their games.

If not - I won't purchase any Ubisoft title.

If the DRM is quickly cracked, I'll demand they drop it completely.

It's that simple.

Windrius
02-28-2010, 09:16 AM
Well.. I'm against the new system. But lets just let ubisoft see how many buyers they'll lose and I think they will release the patch.

FiskMunk
02-28-2010, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by amolang:
ha, I'm sorry to say this but its really going to do no good... why would they change after working on this system for months? Its not a great system, but too bad for us gamers.

Well, they would have had time to scrap the idea completely if they had bothered to announce it earlier than a month before it's premiere... I'm pretty sure we would have reacted in the same way back then.

At least I would have, since I don't know about you people.
Also, I'm perfectly aware that it probably won't be changed in this short matter of time.
Let's just express our dislike?


Originally posted by amolang:
they MAKE the game, so they have the POWER to do this.

And we're supposed to BUY the game, aren't we? They don't have the power to force us do that.
Instead, they rather figured that if they made us unwilling to purchase the game, they would make profit.
Reverse psychology?

FiskMunk
02-28-2010, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by caswallawn_2k7:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And we're supposed to BUY the game, aren't we? They don't have the power to force us do that.
Instead, they rather figured that if they made us unwilling to purchase the game, they would make profit.
Reverse psychology?
did you see the anti MW2 petition steam group the day MW2 launched? about 90% of the people who joined it to protest against the game and saying they would never buy it were playing it.

it's all good and well to start a petition and I bet you get a lot of people against it, but I put money on the majority of people who vote here saying they don't want it and wont get it until the DRM is removed are playing the first day.

just in this case the standard user has no way of seeing how much of a failure it is trying to get people to keep their word.

you might stop a handful of people getting the game but the vast majority will get it no matter what is in it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I'm working on that... I managed to prevent myself from buying MW 2, though :P Although the SP seems somewhat exciting - And you don't need a constant internet connection to play SP on MW2, now do you?

AC II will require that. And by the looks of it, no multiplayer activity of sorts has been added, so...
What gives? They want to prevent piracy, "that cost them millions", and they figured this was the best way to fight it? They didn't give any thought to those that don't want to spend minutes updating their saves because of their slow connection? They didn't care about those customers who has to wait 30 seconds for an internet page to load?

LCGuardian
02-28-2010, 09:16 AM
I'll give my two cents worth here. But first let me start this by saying that I'm waiting keenly for the PC version (as anyone who has looked at the PC thread might have picked up), and I have a reliable broadband connection so I will be able to play this game, meaning the DRM will not affect my ability to play the game.

That said, I think that there must be an alternative system that doesn't require PC gamers to be online in order to play. Ultimately, it seems like a system which will penalise gamers willing to abide by the law but without an internet connection, and reward those willing to go to lengths to bypass the system and gain the ability to play offline. I'm not an expert on the intricacies of programming, but I'm sure there must be an alternative system.

On a more personal note, I prefer to disconnect my PC from the net and turn off the firewall and virus scanner to improve performance while playing. Obviously the DRM is going to prevent this.

R1ghte0us
02-28-2010, 09:16 AM
I've been looking forward to buying Assassin's Creed II on the PC for a long while now.
However, having just read about this 'always connected' method Ubisoft are using for the game, I can definitely say that I won't be buying the game.
I have a mobile internet connection, which would mean me paying by the hour whenever I want to play ACII.
Even if I had a permanent internet connection, this crazy anti-piracy method also means that playing a quick game whilst waiting in the airport, or whilst away from home in a hotel without free-internet is impossible.

As other people have said, the only things this accomplishes is to annoy most of the honest people who actually want to buy the game, and prevent a proportion of these people from being able to play it. I'm sure this game will be hacked shortly, but I still won't buy it.

I haven't noticed any comments from Ubisoft themselves on this forum. I would love to hear your reply to the comments of all the above people.

obliviondoll
02-28-2010, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by BernadetteTX:
I love your games and I will continue to buy them. However, I would now like to take a moment to wish that large disease-infested slugs will leave long twisting trails of venomous slime upon the nether regions of the sleeping bodies of the geniuses who decided this is the correct direction to take for your PC games.
*applauds*

NeonXXV
02-28-2010, 09:16 AM
Not only it's a full price, the price is actually INCREASED. Normal PC games cost 50 bucks. AC2? 60 bucks. Even console version is cheaper at this time, it's 4 months after the release FFS.

NeonXXV
02-28-2010, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by Climbmaster1:
I'm sure they won't require a constant connection. Probably just during install or launch to confirm the disk is real/legit.

They do require connection all the time, as shown in Settlers 7 that uses the same protection. When you lose the connection to the internet the game stalls completely until you reconnect it.


BTW, more developers are noticing the IDIOTIC Ubi's new DRM:

http://www.develop-online.net/...y-a-superior-service (http://www.develop-online.net/news/33820/Piracy-can-be-killed-by-a-superior-service)


“All Ubisoft is doing is kicking their customers in the face,” he said. “If Ubisoft is going to provide a service that is worse than pirating the game, they are only going to attract more pirates.”

Quote for truth, too bad after AC2 gets pirated to hell and back Ubi will blame it on "ZOMG PIRATES" instead of their own draconic DRM.

Climbmaster1
02-28-2010, 09:16 AM
I'm sure they won't require a constant connection. Probably just during install or launch to confirm the disk is real/legit.

AgentValentine
02-28-2010, 09:16 AM
Yeaaah...I was going to get this on PC, but now I don't think so LOL

Unless the Steam version of the game is different at all. I don't want their crappy DRM.

How crappy, lol.

SteelCity999
02-28-2010, 09:16 AM
The DRM is a ridiculous method of controlling trying to control use. There are many other developers who embrace their community and don't alienate them such as this does. For instance, the Civilization series has a huge following and many many mods that are running out. So much so they actually include them in published versions of the game. What better way to get some respect from your fanbase as to recognize the efforts of those that created the mods. How cool would it be to get mods for AC2? Except maybe Ubisoft would be shown up on what they couldn't do......

If you don't respect the developer you're going to have bad things happen no matter what you do to try and avoid it.

Wonderglue
02-28-2010, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by NeonXXV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Climbmaster1:
I'm sure they won't require a constant connection. Probably just during install or launch to confirm the disk is real/legit.

They do require connection all the time, as shown in Settlers 7 that uses the same protection. When you lose the connection to the internet the game stalls completely until you reconnect it.


BTW, more developers are noticing the IDIOTIC Ubi's new DRM:

http://www.develop-online.net/...y-a-superior-service (http://www.develop-online.net/news/33820/Piracy-can-be-killed-by-a-superior-service)


“All Ubisoft is doing is kicking their customers in the face,” he said. “If Ubisoft is going to provide a service that is worse than pirating the game, they are only going to attract more pirates.”

Quote for truth, too bad after AC2 gets pirated to hell and back Ubi will blame it on "ZOMG PIRATES" instead of their own draconic DRM. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course Ubi will blame the pirates,isn't that what all developers do when they delay a game for 4 months and put a full range price on it? As a bonus you get the new DRM system,and wow! Thats something the Console Users didn't get. We should be happy about it,oh wait...

BernadetteTX
02-28-2010, 09:16 AM
This DRM is unacceptable. It's interesting to me that I haven't seen mention of another problem this creates: What happens when your power goes out? Between internet server crashes and power outages, this game will be too much of a pain for me to even consider. The primary reason I am writing this message is not to tell the UbiSoft decision-makers what imbeciles they are sometimes (oh well, I just did); I'm writing to say that I refuse to purchase a PC game in this state. However, UbiSoft is not losing a sale. UbiSoft is SHIFTING a sale. I will purchase Assassin's Creed II for the PS3 instead (or maybe the 360). I would prefer to purchase the game for the PC, but I've basically been given no choice. I actually want to enjoy playing this game. The only way that will happen is if I buy it for one of the consoles. Well, at least the price has been cut for the game (in my area). Really though, that's only a small consolation. I love your games and I will continue to buy them. However, I would now like to take a moment to wish that large disease-infested slugs will leave long twisting trails of venomous slime upon the nether regions of the sleeping bodies of the geniuses who decided this is the correct direction to take for your PC games.

SneakyStabz
02-28-2010, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by obliviondoll:
They're going to cheat themselves out of sales. Because no matter HOW good your code is, it WILL get cracked. Something like this is just ASKING people to do so.

Point being, this "uncrackable" security isn't going to last that long. There are more people, more active, and more stubborn about being able to break these codes

I read through the FAQ about this new DRM, and it makes me glad I use my PC for MMO and online shooter, while using my PS3 for this type of game. There are so many things I'd call BS in this little gem I hardly know where to start.

Will I need to be online the whole time when I play the game? Including for single player?
Yes. You will need to have an active Internet connection to play the game, for all game modes. Why? This WONT prevent piracy and only burdens the honest people!!

Will all my saved games be stored online?
Yes! They will be stored both online and on your PC. Why? If its saved to my PC, why bother making me take time and bandwidth to upload them to Ubisoft's servers? Is this to benefit me and protect my saved data? NO its to make it harder to steal and doesnt benefit me the good customer!

Do you add any monitoring tools to my computer?
No! We respect your privacy and will only access information needed for the new services and game to function. There are no hidden programs or monitoring tools installed. Why should I take your word for that?

Do you send information to third parties?
No. We offer the option opt-in to receive news and updates from Ubisoft, but we do not send any nformation to any third parties So you say, but those Opt-in offers are always pre-checked and usually go unnoticed and unread!

How does Ubisoft use my personal information? How can I control which data is actually provided to Ubisoft?
Ubisoft uses information provided by its customers only to ensure our services run properly for an optimal gameplay experience - including the customer service. Ubisoft does not use personal information for any other purposes, unless you have explicitly accepted for us to do so. Humm... sneaky checkboxes!!

Can I resell my game?
Not at this time. Really!? I bought something but I cant resell it when I'm done with it... Most software is like this when licensed but OK, I guess that's fair or your tired of losing sales to Used Game vendors?

Why is Ubisoft forcing their loyal customers to sign up for a Ubisoft account when they don't want to give their private data and only play single player games?
We hope that customers will feel as we do, that signing up for an account will offer them exceptional gameplay and services that are not available otherwise. Good question, bad answer!!! How does this feature improve gameplay? What service does this provide, aside from making the PC games "harder" to pirate? This isnt about a Uplay account that gives you some added stuff, this is about forcing people to register their games, give out personal info, and always stay connected while playing so that Ubisoft can monitor them!

I could keep going but I think you can see I wont be buying many PC games from Ubisoft in the future. Remember, making anything unbreakable just makes people want to crack it that much more... but good luck!

FiskMunk
02-28-2010, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by BernadetteTX:
...However, UbiSoft is not losing a sale. UbiSoft is SHIFTING a sale. I will purchase Assassin's Creed II for the PS3 instead (or maybe the 360). I would prefer to purchase the game for the PC, but I've basically been given no choice.

Don't give in! I bet that's exactly what they're trying to do!
...Well, not really.
But still, is it anyone else here who /facepalms when they read this, in the Online Services FAQ? Like SneakyStabz posted:


Why is Ubisoft forcing their loyal customers to sign up for a Ubisoft account when they don't want to give their private data and only play single player games?
We hope that customers will feel as we do, that signing up for an account will offer them exceptional gameplay and services that are not available otherwise.

...Gee, they hope so? Who came up with that estimate?

firewaterearth2
02-28-2010, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by caswallawn_2k7:


it's all good and well to start a petition and I bet you get a lot of people against it, but I put money on the majority of people who vote here saying they don't want it and wont get it until the DRM is removed are playing the first day.



You forget that many of these people will bypass the permanent internet connection. It's not that unlikely that something leaks into the net before the release date.
That DRM won't stand any more chances than it's predecessors.

ARandomKid
02-28-2010, 09:19 AM
^Almost everybody I know (that cared about the game, of course) is saying this. >_>


I'm probably still going to get it legit simply because usually these things are exaggerated. I guess I will attempt to think about it as an MMORPG with all the good MMO features taken out. I will, however, emphasize to Ubisoft employees/managers who might be reading this that my opinion is one of an extremely small minority. You probably could have easily guessed this, though.


And then I will rage about it later when my connection drops at random, maybe. >_>

Tracazoid
02-28-2010, 09:19 AM
Although I guess my post did make it seem as if I may pirate the game so if it was directed at me it wasn't intentional.

I am likely either passing this game up or will likely just borrow the PS3 version from a friend. The STEAM version of Assassin's Creed didn't have DRM right(I own it, and I can usually play in offline mode so I assume it doesn't). I have a gaming laptop I use on travels, and am very disappointed with it as I can't always keep a stable connection.

If the STEAM version is playable offline then it is a must buy day 1 for me as I can play it on the train to school...otherwise I'm passing this up and will just borrow it from a friend.

I love Ubisoft games, but this announcement was probably the biggest disappointment in all my time in gaming as I actually loved the first game and was holding off for the PC version of this game.

DRM is the deciding factor in me buying this game or not though. I can only hope the STEAM version acts like the first.

Tracazoid
02-28-2010, 09:19 AM
You don't understand people nearly as well as you think you do.

Also, if a trend of increased piracy correlates directly towards increased DRM protection, companies will stop taking such hard-line stances.

Pirates will pirate regardless, they will never pay for a game. A legit buyer won't turn into a pirate until you **** him off to the point where he does it out of spite. That's why Spore had record high piracy rates, even though it had the most restricitve DRM of its time.


I totally understand what you mean, I have NEVER pirated a game before and never actually thought of doing it. I am a gamer, so I don't mind giving companies my money as I would love to see them prosper...although crap like this makes me reconsider it, which I shouldn't even have to reconsider it and I should just be allowed to play the damn game.

Not that I have too much of a problem with it as a fair amount of my PC gaming is on my home PC which is almost never not connected to the internet. I know people who are often ejected due to bad connections, and if I wanted to get the STEAM version(Not sure if it has it or not, I know the original didn't but still) I would actually like to be able to play it in offline mode on my laptop as I can't always be connected to the internet while traveling.