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TPN_Cephas
10-05-2005, 08:29 AM
ATI had finally lifted the NDA and benchmarks are coming out today for the X1800 series video cards. They are 6 months behind schedule, and now it seems way behind Nvidia in speed, especially in IL2. It looks like my 3 years of ATI support is coming to an end...

Firingsquads X1800XL IL2 benchmarks:
http://firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_radeon_x1800_xt_xl/page10.asp

The review of the new EVGA 7800 GT CO makes it look to be the best video card hands down for IL2 now (price/performance).
http://firingsquad.com/hardware/evga_e-geforce_7800_gt_...ion_review/page6.asp (http://firingsquad.com/hardware/evga_e-geforce_7800_gt_co_edition_review/page6.asp)

Both video cards have some graphical problems in IL2 so please don't turn this thread into a flame war between video card manufacturers.

svanen
10-05-2005, 09:27 AM
****, i was hoping that ati would beat nvidia in il2 this time, i'm not an ati fanboy, but i was hoping for some more performance.
What about quality difference when running all high, wonder if ati's cards will make it look better.

Will BoB be opengl or d3d?

Worf101
10-05-2005, 09:55 AM
Ouch, talk about a thumpin'. Man ATI better get it's act together or it's gonna go the way of Voodoo...

Da Worfster

PF_Coastie
10-05-2005, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by Worf101:
Ouch, talk about a thumpin'. Man ATI better get it's act together or it's gonna go the way of Voodoo...

Da Worfster

Did you guys even read the article?

The X1800 spanks the 7800 at high res/w AA/aniso in most games. However, Nvidia is still king with Opengl and games optimized for Nvidia. The other benchmarks show that ATI has definately got a nice card here. It is just not the best card for IL2 or PF.

Brain32
10-05-2005, 12:53 PM
Difference is marginal(3-5fps), significant improvement comes only at 2048x1024, a resolution that very few (can)uses, I'm really not impressed, ATI was late, it's still unavailable and is far too expensive to consider buying. Not to mention that 7800Ultra is due in early 2006...
With lower price x1800 would be way more appealing, this way only 3DMark freaks will consider buying it.

TooCooL34
10-05-2005, 12:57 PM
Problem is.. some ATI fanboys(not you, not you and not you! put the gun down!) keep claiming their VGA runs FB far better than Nvidia.

ATI is f*c*ing good gaming card but not that good in FB. Accept it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

What I wonder is why they can't pull out enough OpenGL performance. It's maybe too hard or they don't care. But ATI lost a good customer again.

Udidtoo
10-05-2005, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by TooCooL34:
Problem is.. some ATI fanboys(not you, not you and not you! put the gun down!) keep claiming their VGA runs FB far better than Nvidia.

ATI is f*c*ing good gaming card but not that good in FB. Accept it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

What I wonder is why they can't pull out enough OpenGL performance. It's maybe too hard or they don't care. But ATI lost a good customer again.

Do they? What thread please? Anyway after reading your post I took my card out and stomped on it.Reinstalled my 4600 ti. Am I cool too now?

: so please don't turn this thread into a flame war between video card manufacturers."

Thats rich, post this this in the GD and then ask for it to not be a flame war.

p1ngu666
10-05-2005, 03:05 PM
hm
so to sumerise, both the latest ones are fast, which is faster in which app seems to change... ati better when really heavily loaded.

both will emputy ur wallets

doesnt really matter what u buy it seems http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

VW-IceFire
10-05-2005, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by TooCooL34:
Problem is.. some ATI fanboys(not you, not you and not you! put the gun down!) keep claiming their VGA runs FB far better than Nvidia.

ATI is f*c*ing good gaming card but not that good in FB. Accept it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

What I wonder is why they can't pull out enough OpenGL performance. It's maybe too hard or they don't care. But ATI lost a good customer again.
I don't know who does that.

I've got a R9700Pro and its an excellent card by all rights. And its very fast in PF. My next purchase will be difficult. I like some of the work that ATI has done...but I see that nVidia is still king in the OpenGL arena.

The optimized for nVidia thing boils me up a bit as I think thats a little over the top but thats whats going on...

I'm not a fanboy either way. Prior to my current card, I owned a very excellent Asus GeForce 2 GTS and a Creative RivaTNT before that.

The choice with the Radeon X1 series and the GeForce 7000 series will be a tough one. There are good reasons for buying both (seemingly so) options. But it seems if all you want is performance in the IL2 engine (or OpenGL in general) then the nVidia cards have the advantage.

I'm sort of hoping to see that oft rumored ATI answer to OpenGL performance issues.

arcadeace
10-05-2005, 03:53 PM
The major difference comes down to NV favoring OGL and ATI Drect3D. Also its only one review site tho FiringSquad has always shown unbiased balance to me. This has to be kept in perspective in how these cards sell on the gaming market at large. It€s a pretty awesome card as shown in Half-Life 2, Far Cry and Battlefield 2, all Direct3D. I don€t see the results as disappointing, both are worthy next-gen competitors. But ATI is late to the ballgame.

Xiolablu3
10-05-2005, 10:28 PM
If you look at other games tho the ATI card wins and htis is with very preliminary drivers,

In Battlefield 2 the ATI is winner almost across the board.

In Halflife 2 the very highest res test the ATI card wins by a far margin.

griego
10-05-2005, 10:44 PM
I thought the 7800 series card was still buggy in FB because of the driver issues. Has this been cleared up.

lbhskier37
10-05-2005, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
If you look at other games tho the ATI card wins and htis is with very preliminary drivers,

In Battlefield 2 the ATI is winner almost across the board.

In Halflife 2 the very highest res test the ATI card wins by a far margin.

It wins on paper. Just like a GO229 looks really good on paper, but when there are hundreds of P51s zooming around and no GOs around who wins? Those ATI cards look promising if they ever ship (sometime in Nov for the 1800XT) and if they drop the price (XT is listed at $100 more than 7800GTX goes for now) and if they ever get crossfire working (November maybe?), but for how late they are, it isn't anything impressive. I'm glad they brought some competition, it helps us all, but from a guy who loves his 9800Pro, they are going to need to do a lot better than that to get my next purchase.

tjaika1910
10-06-2005, 04:04 AM
It looks like it is the same situation now, but opposite when Nvidia should release NV30. Now it is ATI that is behind scedule and has used a lot of resourses on a console, last time it was Nvidia. Then ATI came on top with its excellent GPU that has been essentially the same upto now.

I wonder how the faster vertex shaders on ATI will turn out in FB. Nvidia dominates pixel shaders leaving water=3 and everything max'ed still a Nvidia thing?.

I saw the "Toystore" movie on ATIs homepage, it looked good.

Manos1
10-06-2005, 03:03 PM
Nice Benchmarks but, somehow nobody mentions anything about the tremendous missing textures that the NVIDIA 7800GTX cards produce.

This Benchmark says that the 7800GTX is a very fast card in OPENGL.

This Benchmark DOES NOT say that the 7800GTX in OPENGL will give you this:
http://www.e-335thgreeksquadron.com/Athos/7800_P47nowing1.jpg

Since nobody has ever seen a X1800XT in real life, I will stay short of any further comments.

Anyway, NVIDIA has not responded at all to this until now.

The patch 4.02 will fix it I was told but, there is no concrete evidence until now.

~S~

svanen
10-07-2005, 05:50 AM
Manos1: Perhaps these new beta drivers may solve that texture issue -> http://www.tweaktown.com/document.php?dType=article&dId=819&dPage=1

OldMan____
10-07-2005, 06:59 AM
Well, this sunday I will test Pacific Fighter on a 1800XL (already got hand on one for aa test with a local Lan house that is sponsored by ATI).

Let's see how it handles the SM 3.0 water of PF.

Unfortunatelly I will just look tracks... sicne my beloved X45 is gone and There is not a single decent hotas to sale in the whole country (think I may have to quit PF and FB playing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif )

Manos1
10-07-2005, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by svanen:
Manos1: Perhaps these new beta drivers may solve that texture issue ->
Thanks for the tip Svanen! No, unfortunately they do not.

Hey Oldman! I am afraid that the 1800XL will not be that fast as the 1800XT but congratulations for the new acquisition.

Since you will be running tracks, do me a favour and post some screenshots with fps measurment of the "F4 Corsairs attacking the Japanese Destroyer"
At point 2:08 there is a nice screenshot.

I do not know what rig you have but the 7800GTX extreme gives following:
On a Athlon64 4000+, DirectX (i.e. no perfect water)
http://e-335thgreeksquadron.com/Athos/7800GTX_GRATHOS_HWSD1.jpg

On a Athlon64 4000+, OpenGL water=3
It gives 77fps and avg:80
(notice the missing textures: The big "09" is missing as well as the cockpit frame is gone)

On a Pentium4 HT 3,4GHz OpenGL and water=3
(notice the missing textures: The big "09" is missing as well as the cockpit frame is gone)
http://www.e-335thgreeksquadron.com/Athos/7800GTX_GRATHOS.jpg

p1ngu666
10-07-2005, 12:01 PM
well, im hoping to get another 6800ultra cheaply, and sli http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

got to hax my mobo tho http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif