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View Full Version : Drop Tank/Bombs Drop Control "Bug".........



LEBillfish
05-08-2006, 05:08 PM
Hi All;

The following it is my understanding will pertain to the Ki-43, Ki-61, Ki-84, Ki-100 and similar aircraft....For discussion purposes we'll utilize the Ki-61....naturally http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

To the left side of the pilot above the flap/gear control lever bank and behind the elevator trim control you'll note the following control unit on the Ki-61.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Kaytoo/dropcontrolsm.jpg

This unit was utilized to "energize/arm" the wing mount pylons for release of either external drop tanks, or bombs. In a nutshell, when the pilot determined it was time to drop whatever was on the rack, he would flip the switches on the far left to the red side, at which point the lights inline to the right would light up stating the circut was energized. When ready, the pilot would then press a button upon the stick, and the solenoids within the racks would fire, releasing whatever was mounted to it.

An EXTENSIVE report has been filed by Mr. Jim Long on the j-aircraft.com forum in this thread at my questioning...... http://www.j-aircraft.org/smf/index.php?topic=902.0 to which should be read by any addressing this issue. Know Mr. Long is most likely the current expert as to the Ki-61 among other planes, his AirTell reports what are utilized to build many of the books and publications all read on the subjects.

This confirms the following which I have presented before in many Ki-61 "bug/error" threads;
1. External ordinance could be dropped either one side at a time, or in unison. Meaning, both bombs or fuel tanks "could be" independantly controlled allowing seperate drops from side to side (though this would most likely mean the left side would be dropped first to compensate for torque)......This allows for 2 targets for example to be bombed vs. the current overkill of 2 bombs.

In the sim however what this would mean though is essentially 2 FMs to accomodate the shift in weight and torque......So, I ask the following;

That the drop tanks or bombs be dropped seperately. First the left side, then the right. That to keep things simple, the FM will not change as it is now, much as though either both or none are in place. The dropping of the ordinance would be performed in exactly the same manner, however instead of just 1 release, the pilot must make 2 to move to the "stores dropped" FM.

2. As pointed out in another thread (which I will repost if requested).....All of the above planes were known to quite routinely fly with just a single drop tank on the right side to compensate for torque...

I'd like to request that as a new option in all the loadouts......HOWEVER, to keep things simple will not request a new additional torque compensating FM be made.

3. The Ki-61 drop tanks are much too large. This has been clearly shown in other threads. However, I realize that is a "modeling" issue...So do not expect its correction.

4. Lastly regarding this aspect of the aircraft, as stated clearly elsewhere as well, if drop tanks or bombs were not carried then the underwing racks were NOT to be mounted (removed when not in use)......This I "assume" would be another simple matter to correct, as if an optional loadout is not selected, then that part of the models code is simply not included.

As a side note once again, the Ki-61-1a through 1c never carried bombs.....However, by having them in the sim it makes up for the lack of the Ki-61-1d or Tei, as to model it would entail some dramatic changes and from the 1d on bombs were carried.

Thanks for your attention 1c and others assisting in the making of this most excellent sim.

K2 / Kelly / Billfish

stansdds
05-08-2006, 06:27 PM
Yeah, and the Corsair and Hellcat armed with rockets could fire them in pairs or salvo all at once and the bomb and drop tank pylons could be dropped individually. Also, how about a Corsair loadout that would have a 500 or 1000 pound bomb on the port pylon and a 154 gallon drop tank on the starboard pylon, that was a common loadout on carrier born F4U-1D's. And while we're at it, the Corsair I (F4U-1) and F4U-1A did not have twin pylons like the F4U-1C or -1D. Oh, and how about correct loadouts for the SBD? Don't recall any SBD's capable of carrying 500 pound bombs on the little wing racks.

The more I play this sim, the more errors I find, at least on aircraft of the Pacific theater.

LEBillfish
05-08-2006, 07:15 PM
Interesting........I didn't know the F4U or SBD were made by the Japanese.....However, just for sake of clairity how bout stansdds you consider researching it and posting the info you find in a "similar" thread, I'd be interested in seeing it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

MrMoonlight
05-09-2006, 04:17 AM
As interesting as your research is, Billfish (I must admit, I learned something new from your post), I think all of this is moot until we get some sort of fuel tank selection in the sim. And at this stage, I doubt we ever will. The FM is going to behave differently if you are dropping an empty tank as opposed to a full or half-full one (assuming you were able to drop a single tank).

What is sorely missing in this sim is the ability to select your fuel tanks. Obviously, if you're carrying external drop tanks, you're going to want to draw from those first, before switching over to internal tanks. Also, most aircraft had a specific fuel tank "sequence" for weight and balance purposes. Also, the ability to transfer fuel from one tank to another (in aircraft where this was possible) for weight and balance purposes is another factor which is totally absent in this sim.

As a real life pilot with sticktime in warbirds, I can tell you that there is an incredible amount of stuff that has been simplified in this sim. The CEM is a joke, fuel management (as stated above) is nonexistent, and there is a slew of other stuff I could go on about here (but I won't). Suffice it to say, a real life fighter pilot was a hell of a lot busier in the cockpit than an IL2/FB/PF sim-pilot presently is.

As much as I respect your quest for accuracy in the sim (in this thread and your "oiled windscreen" thread as well), I think there are more glaring flaws that need to be addressed before those you are crusading for (no offense intended). To me, if realism is really your thing, being able to slam your throttle forward to full manifold pressure while leaving your RPM (prop pitch) at 50% or 60% should bother you a lot more than not being able to individually drop an external tank.

Thanks nonetheless for the informative post.

Genie-
05-09-2006, 05:45 AM
Originally posted by MrMoonlight:
As much as I respect your quest for accuracy in the sim (in this thread and your "oiled windscreen" thread as well), I think there are more glaring flaws that need to be addressed before those you are crusading for (no offense intended). To me, if realism is really your thing, being able to slam your throttle forward to full manifold pressure while leaving your RPM (prop pitch) at 50% or 60% should bother you a lot more than not being able to individually drop an external tank.


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

LEBillfish
05-09-2006, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by MrMoonlight:
As interesting as your research is,......................60% should bother you a lot more than not being able to individually drop an external tank.

Thanks nonetheless for the informative post.

A step at a time http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif......Keep in mind as well that what you're speaking to and numerous other things have been "point blank" stated that they will not be addressed in the IL2 series, yet BoB.

This is something that CAN be easily done, gets us one step closer, so betters the sim.....and most of all gets closer to setting historical records.

If you read Mr.Long's report, you'll note he himself was not sure. Well, Mr. Long would be my guess the current "worlds authority" on the subject of Ki-61's among others. So in a sense, threads like this accumulated (ex. Ki-61 Myth/Fact thread) take 60 year lost information and makes record of it before it's gone (as when some like Mr. Long are gone it will be lost forever)......Lastly, by including as much as will be allowed to be included in something like this sim, it makes that record available and "interesting" to the masses.

How many people do you know that base all their WWII aircraft knowledge from this sim?......The real trick though getting them interested enough they look into even just one little part further like I have with the Ki-61, inspired by my interest in the 78th Hikousentai, inspired by my desire to make an accurate skin.

So a step at a time, and trying to get all we can that the maker is willing to provide....In the end, the info hashed out for the next generation of sims......So history saved, not forgotten. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

karost
05-09-2006, 08:59 AM
Wow... LEBillfish, Thank you for share a very good info for us.

that is good picture and good knowledge...

it is a good time to tell dev. to fix their work http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S!

ElAurens
05-10-2006, 11:17 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

M0re great info one one of my favorite aircraft.

Thanks again for all your hard work Billfish.

Nimits
05-22-2006, 07:20 PM
This is such a minor bug, compared to the 500lbs on the SBD wing pylons and the D3A's fuel consumption, that it really should be an extremely low priority for the limited amount of programming time left to fix PF.

LEBillfish
05-22-2006, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by Nimits:
This is such a minor bug, compared to the 500lbs on the SBD wing pylons and the D3A's fuel consumption, that it really should be an extremely low priority for the limited amount of programming time left to fix PF.

Low priority for "your" wants...... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif.......Naturally I suspect however you'll research it, document it, and post it as well. PM me when you have, I'll be glad to post in the thread.

LEBillfish
05-30-2006, 11:05 AM
bump

Cossack13
05-31-2006, 06:57 PM
I think the amount of research this lady puts into this plane kicks butt.

LEBillfish
01-14-2007, 01:48 PM
Another PS to this...I'll let the photo do the talking....

http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/ArmyJB&W3/Ki-43-94.jpg <div class="ev_tpc_signature">

<span class="ev_code_BLACK">"Does this make my Hien look big?"
"I love my Ha-40's"
"She loves teh Swallow"
"Don't call me cho-cho san"
</span>

Mysticpuma2003
01-14-2007, 08:06 PM
Well I feel your pain, but I have found lately, that we all have a jolly good chat about someone elses gripe, and then nothing happens.

Then, someone posts a problem, and we all have a jolly good chat, and....nothing ever happens.

I know this is called Olegs Ready Room, but sometimes you wonder if the man himself (obviously he can't reply to everything!) actually takes on board anything that people, moan, suggest, gripe or question.

Wouldn't it be noce if once-per-month the man himself put a post in here saying "Items that have been discussed that we are considering for the future"......but we'll all have a jolly good chat and........

Why do I feel your pain. I love the P-47, with it's unfinished cockpit, incorrect bomb load out, inability to have extra ammunition and a drop tank, no-way of releasing rocket tubes when spent (by wire release originally), Octagonal gunsight!, inability to keep it's tail on, armour plate seat is made of paper (PK me again and again why don't you), not that I mention you understand http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

it's just that we'll have a jolly good chat and....


Good Luck!

Cheers, MP<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/Mysticpuma.jpg

LEBillfish
01-14-2007, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by Mysticpuma2003:.... I love the P-47, with it's unfinished cockpit, incorrect bomb load out, inability to....

Yes, well thanks for the input on the Ki-43 and Ki-61 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

<span class="ev_code_BLACK">"Does this make my Hien look big?"
"I love my Ha-40's"
"She loves teh Swallow"
"Don't call me cho-cho san"
</span>

Mysticpuma2003
01-15-2007, 12:50 AM
.......someone posts a problem, and we all have a jolly good chat, and....nothing ever happens.

Well I'm having a jolly good chat.....I wonder if anything happens http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I know, I went OT with the P-47, it's just that I (we) have seen so many times people put some great data and info. down, which has a great basis for others to work from, but it gets frustrating to have a favourite ride, that could have a 'tweak here, and a tweak there', and the whole dynamic suddenly pulls together.

it's just that even with all the detail you supplied.......someone posts a problem, and we all have a jolly good chat, and....nothing ever happens!

Good Luck, really, I mean it!

Cheers, MP.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/Mysticpuma.jpg

SeaFireLIV
01-15-2007, 05:00 AM
Things can happen, but if we look at EVERY request made to him by everyone who thinks their issue is most important, I`m no exception, then Oleg cannot realistically implement them all.

In the end it`s all a rather selfish deal.

That`s why I try to focus on fixes that may help everyone (like AI). Though, that said, we did petition for 250Lb bombs on the Hurri,,, and we got it. So anything`s possible.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/LIVeyes.jpg
"If it burns, it is confirmed."

Ivan Lukich Zvyagin