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Unknown_Target
12-01-2005, 05:52 PM
Just curious if anyone else out there flies the MiG-3. You'll always see me in the 2x SHVaK version with my (grainy) "Tail End Charlie" scheme :P

But I do have a couple questions about the plane - first, will there be any significant updates to it's flightmodel at all? Second, can someone, for the love of whatever God(s) you believe in, tell me how to avoid getting shot in the aileron cables. I-16's are my bane, because as soon as they get on my tail, three hits from an MG will take out the cables.
Lastly, why does no one fly this aircraft? It's beautiful to look at and fly, and I think it can dogfight with the best of them, even if the plane feels like a flying stall http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VW-IceFire
12-01-2005, 06:00 PM
I've been known to fly it sometimes...in very early war scenarios the MiG-3 1940 is the fastest of the bunch but it doesn't have much else.

Its weak, poorly armed (except the 2xShVAK variant), manuevers adequately but not in any great fashion, the cockpit is ugly (yes thats a slight against it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif), and it can't dive very fast or it breaks up.

Its not a great fighter...but in the early war scenario its advantages can be leveraged against the early 109s to some degree.

Unknown_Target
12-01-2005, 06:10 PM
You're right about the light armarment, it is very weak - the trick I've found is usually to get within .15-.2 and lay in a full second burst to vital areas, such as the cockpit, wing roots, or, on the 109, the rear fuel tank, just behind the cockpit (shooting upwards into the belly, preferably).
I enjoy the cockpit, personally, although I am still searching for the climb rate indicator, I have yet to find it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif But the canopy has a good visibility, and I've found that the MiG is excellent online, where most of the dogfights are below 1000 feet (the ship has a low climb rate, so while it performs acceptably up to about 10,000 feet, it'll probably take you a good while to get there). But yea, once you're down low, just use diving turns and low throttle to keep yourself inside most fighter's turn loops. It's weak though, so if someone gets on your tail, you're going to have to go bonkers to get him off before he hits you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LameDuck.
12-01-2005, 08:40 PM
I prefer the no-frills 1940 -3 over the ShVak or the UB, manueverability seems to be better without the cannons. Oddly, the text descriptions list the same weight.
Still need to try the AM-38 and the -3U versions.

jetsetsam
12-01-2005, 09:41 PM
I love it! It reminds me of a bird. Like a swallow, although a combutable swallow. And the cockpit has a tin can feel to it.

LEXX_Luthor
12-01-2005, 10:30 PM
LameDuck, use -3U at very high altitudes, use -3AM38 at very low altitudes. In each of its domains, its the fastest plane available in 1942 (the AM38) and in 1943 (the -3U).

p1ngu666
12-01-2005, 11:04 PM
am38 is a monster, is like hot rod http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Pirschjaeger
12-01-2005, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by LameDuck.:
I prefer the no-frills 1940 -3 over the ShVak or the UB, manueverability seems to be better without the cannons. Oddly, the text descriptions list the same weight.
Still need to try the AM-38 and the -3U versions.

How serious can we take you? You are a paratrooper in real life, bailing has never been an issue. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Seriously though, I agree with your choice. I like the Mig. I only flew it once online. I had no choice, it was the only thing available. I got jumped by 4 109's down low. They obviously out powered me and I was kept completely on the defensive. Amazingly, I survived for a long time using flaps and very tight turns, kicking up dust. Eventually I had to bail since my engine was cooked. I climbed straight up and bailed just before it stalled. Then watched 3 109s pick my mig apart as it fell to the ground.

I like the Mig3.

Fritz

Lazy312
12-02-2005, 07:56 AM
I fell in love with migs long time ago..

It was a flying coffin in FB1.0 but many things changed after that. MiGs (early ones) are still inferior to Bf 109 F but I really like the way they fly..

Pirschjaeger
12-02-2005, 08:20 AM
Migs are also the best looking Russian planes.

The LaGGs are not bad looking but I think Oleg's crew messed up too much on the FM/DM to make them worth while fighting against or flying.

La5/7's are nice but, well, who wants to fly a plane that offers no challenge. I've noticed that those who typically fly the La7's cannot hold their own in other a/c. They don't call it a "noob plane" for nothing.

The IL-2's are fun but not for any serious fighting. Nice ground pounders or for lightweight bombing.

The I-16's are not too bad, but they lack power and I really dislike those firefly dispensers.

My favorite Russian plane is the Mig3. If you become a good pilot in a Mig, you'll be a great pilot in other a/c. You'll naturally become good at avoiding being shot and you'll learn how to save your "E".

Fritz

Ace_Hyflyer
12-02-2005, 09:16 AM
I agree with all the above posts.

My favorite planes are the Mig3 and the P-39. Both are pretty difficult to fly correctly (at least in IL-2 version 1.2, No FB etc...). 'Specially the P-39, that spin is a death trap!

It's fast, maneuverable, and has just enough armament to be a threat. What more can you ask for?

Chris

sean_penns_ass
12-02-2005, 09:36 AM
I quite like the Mig3, particularly the Am38 version. Next to the P39 its probalbly my favourite Allied plane. Its good for improving your shooting skills but I find it hard to fly and think you have to keep a close eye on your speed in this plane because too fast the elevators are useless and too slow its seems to stall out easier than others because of the long nose(?)

In the text descriptions of it they say its very good in the vertical plane but I think this is not true as the elevators dont seem very responsive esp at high speed. Guess theres a certain speed you should always try and maintain to keep it agile and stuff.

LameDuck.
12-02-2005, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
LameDuck, use -3U at very high altitudes, use -3AM38 at very low altitudes. In each of its domains, its the fastest plane available in 1942 (the AM38) and in 1943 (the -3U).
Cool! They just jumped to the top of my list of planes to check out. 1942....Hhmmm, that means either F2 or F4....
Fritz, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif , my screwball memory tells me the LAGG-3 is better than either the Mig-3(std,ud,UB,ShVAK), Yak-1, or Yak-7, but there's sooooo many variants to keep track of that I could be remembering it wrong. Let's see, there's:
5 LAGG-3
6 Mig-3
2 Yak-1
2 Yak-7
8 Yak-9
2 Yak-3
=25 variants! (8 are listed as =>1941).
How do you guys keep them all straight!? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Thanks for the tip on the AM-38 and the 3U, I'll experiment with them this weekend.

MLudner
12-02-2005, 09:57 AM
My MiG-3 Pilot, Alexei Kurdanov, was KIA in September of 41 on the south Ukrainian coast near Skadovsk. As a result I have not flown them much of late. The MiG drove me nuckin' futs early on learning how to land it - the cockpit was too far back and I kept dipping my nose too much as I landed and suffered prop strikes. I got over it, though. SL Kurdanov had 12 victories when he died, so I did not do too bad in it.

The MiG, however, is incorrectly modeled in the game. IRL it was an excellent high altitude interceptor, but it was pathetic at lower altitudes. It lost so much performance down low that it could barely pass 300 MPH and it even lost maneuverability. Above 23 - 25,000 feet it slightly out-performed Bf-109F's and was a match for them as a result. Problem was, the fighting on the EF was almost always at 10,000 or lower and down there the MiG was a sitting duck.

In game, the extact opposite is true. When I fly MiG's over 20,000 ft my engine trails black smoke, the engine sputters, and I cannot even so much as keep them level because they stall due to lack of power. I nearly got shot down by a 109F2 when I discovered this in a QMB mission. I barely managed to keep his sights off of me until I got down to 10,000 and was able to put up a fight and peck him to death with my little pop-guns.

The Am-38 and U versions rectified the IRL historical problems, but the Soviets had become too disillusioned with the design by the time they became available and they were never produced in numbers.

Gryphonne
12-02-2005, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by MLudner:
In game, the extact opposite is true. When I fly MiG's over 20,000 ft my engine trails black smoke, the engine sputters, and I cannot even so much as keep them level because they stall due to lack of power. I nearly got shot down by a 109F2 when I discovered this in a QMB mission. I barely managed to keep his sights off of me until I got down to 10,000 and was able to put up a fight and peck him to death with my little pop-guns.


Sounds like you're not adjusting fuel mixture. Also check the supercharger. The MiG รย*s excellent high up in this game, it will get raped if your fuel mix isn't correct however.

Pirschjaeger
12-02-2005, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by LameDuck.:
Fritz, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif , my screwball memory tells me the LAGG-3 is better than either the Mig-3(std,ud,UB,ShVAK), Yak-1, or Yak-7, but there's sooooo many variants to keep track of that I could be remembering it wrong. Let's see, there's:
5 LAGG-3
6 Mig-3
2 Yak-1
2 Yak-7
8 Yak-9
2 Yak-3
=25 variants! (8 are listed as =>1941).
How do you guys keep them all straight!? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Thanks for the tip on the AM-38 and the 3U, I'll experiment with them this weekend.

In real, the Laggs were real. But I'm suspicious that in the sim, the AI can get a much higher speed than I in a LaGG.

The AI load their guns with secret ammo, recycled delta wood piercing, that's much more effective than mine. It seems I get rubber bullets. Safety first. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

The AI have armoured LaGGs, I just get the econo-class cardboard version (recycled delta wood I suspect).

The AI get cup holders, I don't and end up bailing, smelling like beer.

"How do you guys keep them all straight!?"

Now there's a good question. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Fritz

MLudner
12-02-2005, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by Gryphonne:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MLudner:
In game, the extact opposite is true. When I fly MiG's over 20,000 ft my engine trails black smoke, the engine sputters, and I cannot even so much as keep them level because they stall due to lack of power. I nearly got shot down by a 109F2 when I discovered this in a QMB mission. I barely managed to keep his sights off of me until I got down to 10,000 and was able to put up a fight and peck him to death with my little pop-guns.


Sounds like you're not adjusting fuel mixture. Also check the supercharger. The MiG รย*s excellent high up in this game, it will get raped if your fuel mix isn't correct however. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did try various things during an unopposed experimentation flight, including adjusting prop pitch. I cannot remember working with fuel mix or supercharger, though.
What settings are you using that are working?

Platypus_1.JaVA
12-02-2005, 11:38 AM
The MiG-3 is like the shy and skinny girl on a party. No-one notices her really but if you invest some time in her, she can be quite attractive. Or she is the ugly fat girl in your class. But, on a reunion 10 years later, she is the most beautifull woman of them all.

Okay, I admit, I have a drop or two Italian blood in me. I can get rather passionate about what essentially still are machines. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Unknown_Target
12-02-2005, 12:26 PM
I'm really glad this thread has garnered this much response. I never see the MiG online, so I thought I was the only one who liked her http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif MLunder, I was wondering about that myself - sources list the MiG as being more than pathetic at low altitudes, however in the game the craft is highly maneuverable. The only thing I can recognize is that the top speed is much hard to attain, with most engagements being conducted at around 300-350 MpH, as opposed to the 380-410 MpH top speed for the aircraft, although, judging from the sources, it should be much lower.

Ace_Hyflyer, what's your callsign on Hyperlobby? Have I flown against you in IL-2 before?

A couple tips that I've found for flying the MiG, for those of you that are going to try her later http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

1) The MiG is aweful in the vertical, unless you have +350 MpH airspeed on entering an upward climb. Use this to your advantage by yanking up and stalling her in mid air - but only if the enemy is pretty close! You'll sit there for a few moments, presenting a big sitting target, so make sure that your pursuer has a lot of closure. The MiG stalls very gently in the vertical, and when full throttle is applied she will swing heavily due to torque. Apply rudder in that direction and you can usually get up to 300 MpH within about a hundred feet.

2) The MiG does have a great dive, especially versus earlier 109's. She seems to just want to hit the ground, and falls very fast. If you're at a high altitude, roll inverted and go down. If you're at a lower altitude, either go down or perform a hard turn downwards, making sure to keep the stick off the back end of the limiter. You'll pick up speed and maneuver more into a firing position.

3) Speed speed speed! She's a fat horse at slow speeds, but a stallion at anything +300. If you can get her that high, you won't be dissapointed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hydra444
12-02-2005, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
am38 is a monster, is like hot rod http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Sounds like one too.

I've found that the best strategy to use with the Miggie is to have a wingman,preferably in a Mig as well.Ya gotta be in and out with the Mig,always goin full-bore.I have noticed though that in VERY extreme angles of attack the Mig is solid as a rock.You can seemingly put the Mig at angles that would cause other planes to lose any sense of control.

A very solid plane,despite having some drawbacks.

carguy_
12-02-2005, 03:59 PM
Mig3 became a good example of what 1C does to flight models of certain planes like the Ki61 or Me110.

Mig3 was from IL2 v1.0 sluggish at low alt,below 4000m and 4.02 has changed it to a Emil slayer because of now very good low altitude acceleration and maneuverability.

Its FM is currently very wrong.

MLudner
12-02-2005, 04:27 PM
Ah-ha! I experimented at lunch. It was the fuel mixture. My computer says the MiG has no supercharger.

When I reached 7,000 + meters and the engine began sputtering and spewing thick, black smoke I bumped the fuel mix to 120%. Engine nearly quit! MiG almost stalled! Dropped mixture back to 100%.
Much better http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif but not good enough http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif. MiG still sputtering and fuming.
That gave me an idea:
Reduced Mixture to 80%.
!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif !!!
MiG much happier now http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif!
At 60% performance remained good. Did not go lower this time as I decided to go Kraut hunting...

neural_dream
12-02-2005, 04:34 PM
MLudner, mixture 120% is for very very low altitudes (<500m). For mixture altitudes, info, stats and other tips for each aircraft you can download my printable guide (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/8311086963) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Hope you like it.

edit: I just saw I don't have much for the MiG3s. Maybe in a revised edition if you people help http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

MLudner
12-02-2005, 04:49 PM
I'll have to wait until I get off. Thank you, it looks good. Still, would have been good to mention that BEFORE I figured it out for myself http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif .

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif (kidding again.) Fuel mixture is one of the annoying details I'm still piddling with. I understand prop pitch now ... basically .... but supercharger operation and fuel mix are still rather mysterious to me. Especially since most of the planes I fly don't have them or they are automatic and cannot be manually adjusted.

TheCrux
12-02-2005, 07:39 PM
If you become a good pilot in a Mig, you'll be a great pilot in other a/c. You'll naturally become good at avoiding being shot and you'll learn how to save your "E".

Fritz

Dead-on right. Logically condensed and can't be stressed enough.

Kuna15
12-03-2005, 05:49 AM
3U is unbelievable good plane and IMO used to be better than G2 in many ways.

In early scenarios MiGs are really good planes because of unmatched speed.

LameDuck.
12-03-2005, 02:25 PM
Well, my first experiment with the AM-38 v f4 didn't go so well: A wing came off somewhere on the high side of 500 kph, extending down & out. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif The second time went better.
Monster is right! In addition to level speed, I notice the Mig-3 can go over the top now. Yippee!

I also noticed less than ~50% throttle is almost useless in a non-AM38 Mig, and the ShVAK still feels more cumbersome than a standard -3....IMHO. And I need to ease up on the rudder in any of the Mig variants.

You know what hasn't been mentioned in this thread at all? Roll rate. I went back and compared against the Yak-1, Yak-7, LAGG-3... All of the Mig-3 variants roll much better.....equal (in roll) to an early Wulf...? I hopped in a Yak and was like, "c'mon, dangit, ROLL!".

Kuna15
12-03-2005, 03:38 PM
AM-38 is really good plane. I haven't any problems versus ai 2xFW-190A-5, I catched up with them really fast although A5 should be considerably faster than AM-38 ~25-30kph. AM-38 is on the other hand faster than F4 on sea level ~30kph.
migpwnzaiaxis (http://free-vk.t-com.hr/domagoj/tracks/402__kunamig.rar)

@ LD 38 should have edge over F4, just don't dive too fast stay high and dive with shallow angle; if you chase let messer go below you you will catch up with him eventually.

Unknown_Target
12-03-2005, 05:09 PM
Just a little note; I finally found the climb indicator! Bad news is it's right behind the stick, and hidden from view (the reason I couldn't find it before). It would be nice if Oleg somehow fixed this (semi-transparant stick or what have you).

Also, something about anything but the MiG-3 AM-38 is that you can leave WEP on for as long as you want, and the engine will almost never overheat. A bug methinks?

Oh yea, and occassionally when in an online dogfight, I'll take off with my engine running fine, but sounding like something's wrong with it - like how it would sound after a brief overheating. Also, another bug?

Pirschjaeger
12-03-2005, 10:17 PM
I'm just getting back into flying so I'm taking it easy. Normally, when I tests a plane or a new stick I go to qmb 3000, Moscow1, no AAA, and the enemy is 4 AI Mig3's. After reading and posting in this thread I decided to give the Mig3 a try. I hadn't flown it since IL-2.

I was very impressed. It was better than I had remembered. It's fast and turns nice. Very easy to black out but also very easy to control. I was easily able to turn inside the AI and blast them into history. Killing the 4 AI Migs was just too easy. Landing was also a breeze.

I did notice however, it doesn't climb so good. Normally, when I see planes in the distance I grab whatever alt I can. In the 109g2 I ease the stick but so I climb at about 15 degrees. Then, when my speed has dropped to about 180 I roll over and start gaining E at about 120 degrees. Before rolling I usually have an extra 800-900 m alt.

With the Mig3, I found it bled it's E fast when climbing at 10 degrees. However, it seems to climb forever at about 45 degrees, just a little slowly. I also found the Mig3 to be a very table gun platform.

I'd say this was the most underrated plane in the sim.

Fritz