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Choctaw111
12-26-2005, 08:22 PM
Would flying into a parachute really rip a wing off? Since I obviously have no real experience in this area I was just wondering if there were any historical documets or reports to verify such a thing. It hasn't happened to me in a while but I have lost a wing by flying into a parachute.
On a slightly different note I have to congratulate Oleg again. Everytime I see something new in Il2 that impresses me I try to make it into the forums before I forget to write about it but most of the time I do not. Since I have been talking about parachtes here I noticed something the other day. I shot down a Hurricane at low level with my FW190 and he bailed out and I thought that he was going to make it but soon before he touched the ground his AC came back down at him and destroyed his parachute and he fell to his death. I just thought that this was really something. It sort of put me back in the war when unexpected things could and did happen. It was just a little reminder that you never really know what is going to happen or when your luck will finally run out.
Hey, I am still alive but nearly lost my legs in a mine field. I can at least get around on my own although difficult at times. It is just that seeing that happen to that guy that bailed out kind of brought some memories back to me and I could really associate with Il2 at that moment. For some reason when that happened it really touched me inside as I have lost some good friends. I am sorry to ramble on like this. Anyway, keep up the Great Work Oleg and team. When I see something else really neat I will try to post it right away.

LEBillfish
12-26-2005, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by Choctaw111:
Would flying into a parachute really rip a wing off? .

No, but a chute is an "object" so treated as such (or we couldn't shoot chutes). What it could do is cause enough drag to put a heck of a dent in a planes wing (especially if a pilot was still on it)...also cause the plane to possibly crash due to that drag...........a balloon wire would, or more saw through it.......I have an account not on the PC of a life raft getting loose and it's line snagging on a B25 tail...the tail was wrecked.....But there is even an actual account of a p38 pilot running into a chute in New Guinea as follows.....(full account found here... http://www.mindspring.com/~jaybirdone/headhunters/index.htm )

Death of Major Akira Takatsuki:
Even worse for the Americans, three transports of the Japanese 15th Resupply Convoy happened to be in Wewak Harbor and had been assigned a heavy fighter cover of Tonys and. Oscars during unloading operations. Major Akira Takatsuki, who had commanded the 78th Sentai since it came to the theater in April 1943, led the Tonys of that unit, while other Tonys of the 68th Sentai and Oscars of the 59th and 248th Sentais completed the Japanese air cover over Wewak.

Apparently, the Japanese fighters received the warning of approaching enemy aircraft at about 9:30. Because the Americans were coming in over the coast through low, broken cloud cover, it would be a simple matter to spread the intercepting fighters out in a fan on both sides of the coast and stalk the intruders.
Cragg must have had some appreciation of that possibility, and he scanned through the sunlight filtering down from gaps in the clouds. There was scattered rain to further obscure vision, and he wished he could take the entire raiding force to a better altitude.

Corky Smith was bringing up the rear of the 80th formation with his fourth flight. The rain and heavy clouds forced Smith down to an altitude of 7,000 feet, but visibility was still so bad that the four flights had to group close together to maintain visual contact. From the seaward side of the American formation, some of the Japanese interceptors saw Smith's flight through the broken rain clouds. Even with their olive camouflage, the P-38s shimmered in the sky, which was alternately filled with showers and dancing sunlight. Four excited Tony pilots and a similar number of Oscar pilots quickly jockeyed for position and came down hard on the Americans.

Smith was just starting to climb to regain lost altitude when he looked around to see two Tonys hurtling through the rain to attack his flight. With the reflexes of a seasoned veteran, he called out the sighting to Jay Robbins, who was leading the third flight directly ahead, and turned into the Japanese. The maneuver was not quite quick enough for Smith's wingman, Lieutenant John Stanifer, who suffered some hits before the Tonys broke away. Smith himself had some difficulty with the electrical switches that released his underwing fuel tanks and spent an arduous moment using the manual release. Fortunately, the Tonys had decided to curve away before another attack.

At the same time, Cragg was encountering a formation of 78th Sentai Tonys led by Major Takatsuki. The Tonys dived directly on the American escort, but Cragg was quick enough to draw a bead on Takatsuki and fire a burst from about 200 yards. The lead was off, however, and Cragg's fire arced behind his target.

Takatsuki tried to loop his Tony as tightly as possible to get back on Cragg's tail, reaching the top of the maneuver when the second flight of P-38s came into range. Either Lieutenant Bert Reed or Lieutenant Delbert Furgason fired a shot at the Tony, which was hanging almost motionless for the moment. Strange as the coincidence seems, Takatsuki jettisoned his canopy and tumbled out of the cockpit just as Cragg was turning his P-38 directly below.

While the Japanese parachute was deploying, Cragg was unable to avoid hitting it and ripped it to shreds with his right propeller. Horrified, he watched the body of the Japanese pilot tumble thousands of feet into the misty jungle below. Somewhat shaken but still in control, Cragg looked around to keep in touch with the air battle now raging. A section of the doomed pilot's parachute was still wrapped around the P-38's right wing as a macabre reminder of the incident.

Cragg turned back toward the Sepik River, where three more Tonys and an Oscar were coming at the P-38s head-on. The first Tony came barreling in and looked like nothing more than a silver coin balanced on a knife blade when Cragg opened fire at about 250 yards. As the Tony passed him, it was pouring out flames and black smoke, and when he looked back, Cragg saw it plunge straight down like a blazing torch.

Cragg flew directly to Port Moresby, where the ground crews wondered at the shredded Japanese parachute fluttering from the wing of his P-38, marked on the nose with Porky II in yellow letters. Cragg would be bothered by the memory of the horrific incident for the rest of his short life.


Another conflicting report:
But the weird thing is, the 80th pilots all indicated they encountered Ki-43 Oscars, radial engined little nasties they were quite familiar with. Combat reports decribe the twin drop tanks characteristic of the Oscar, note hits just behind the cockpit striking the high-pressure oxygen system, with the resulting
familiar explosion breaking the airplane in two, etc. Yet the Japanese reports indicate the aircraft lost were Ki-61 Tonys! From the 68th and 78th Groups. Oscars from the 1st and 24th Groups were also involved in the fight, but they apparently reported no losses and made no claims.

Choctaw111
12-27-2005, 06:04 AM
Thank you LEBillfish. That was some very interesting reading. I figured that it had to have happened at one point or another during the war. I just never heard about it.

womenfly
12-27-2005, 09:47 AM
Possibly, €¦ while flying a BELLANCA CITABRIA one summer along the New England seacoast, where people just love to fly custom high performance kites off the beach. I managed to hit a kite cord from a kite flying higher (300 feet) then me with my right wing just in front of the sturt attachment points. The cord sawed through the aluminum leading edge, leading edge supports, fabric and managed to put two cuts into the top and bottom €œtee-section€ of the front aluminum wing spar!

I landed with no incident but the wing spar had to be replaced and the total wing rebuilt. Looked like someone had taken a 3/32€ saw blade and cut through everything.

All this from a kite cord €¦. Wonder what a chute and its cords would really do? ... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

gbollin
12-27-2005, 03:24 PM
In game I hit a Pilot in his chute before
and it tore of my wing. I look at at this
way. If you hit a pilot in his chute
at over 300MPH. You are going to suffer alot
of damage because a pilot may weigh 200lbs with
equipment.

FritzGryphon
12-27-2005, 07:21 PM
In 'The Forbidden Diary' by John Stewart (no, not the funny man), the author describes a crewman bailing out of one B-24, and striking the wing of another B-24, causing it to break off.

Scen
12-28-2005, 01:07 PM
As a former paratrooper in the Marine Corps I can assure you that hitting a parachute is really bad.

I had a chance to talk to some of our riggers which frequently recieved accident reports so they can avoid problems. These are also passed onto the Jumpmasters again all for safey reasons.

One of the things you do as a paratrooper is cover your handle to the reserve while in the plane. The premise behind this is when they open the doors a lot of slipstream is swirled into the airplane. If your reserve happen to catch this guess where your headed.... Out the door and in a hurry which means you won't get out so cleanly if you will.

One of the reports mentioned an entire tale was removed from the aircraft from such and incident. I believe it was a C-130 and everone on board died. It might have been a C-19 but I can 't remember.

Bottom line. Parachutes are strong and they can cut through things via their cords. Even an inflated chute is strong. I would imagine the WWII versions made from silk aren't as strong but still. Add in a body and its bad news.

Scendore

Choctaw111
12-28-2005, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by Scen:
As a former paratrooper in the Marine Corps I can assure you that hitting a parachute is really bad.

I had a chance to talk to some of our riggers which frequently recieved accident reports so they can avoid problems. These are also passed onto the Jumpmasters again all for safey reasons.

One of the things you do as a paratrooper is cover your handle to the reserve while in the plane. The premise behind this is when they open the doors a lot of slipstream is swirled into the airplane. If your reserve happen to catch this guess where your headed.... Out the door and in a hurry which means you won't get out so cleanly if you will.

One of the reports mentioned an entire tale was removed from the aircraft from such and incident. I believe it was a C-130 and everone on board died. It might have been a C-19 but I can 't remember.

Bottom line. Parachutes are strong and they can cut through things via their cords. Even an inflated chute is strong. I would imagine the WWII versions made from silk aren't as strong but still. Add in a body and its bad news.

Scendore

I was a paratrooper in the 82nd but never at Benning or Bragg did they ever give us that "Be sure not to hit an airplane" speech. Maybe the pilots are trained to be very careful around parachutes though. Yes that 550 cord is some really strong stuff. I guess that I should have thought about it more before I started this thread. It is just something that I never really thought about before. I mean I have never heard or read about anyone getting hit while floating down to earth although I was sure that it would had to have happened at some point.

oldefart001
01-03-2006, 06:06 PM
back in the mid 80's I took up civil parachuting, I learnt the military variation a few years later.
My Parachute Club's chief instructor was a very experienced parachutist who would use real incidents to highlight training. One of these incidents concerned a sport parachutist who while riding up in a light aircraft accidently deployed his reserve parachute.
Apparently this caught the slipstream through the open door and got sucked outside the aircraft; the parachutist was not so lucky, he along with his main chute was dragged down the inside of the rear of the aircraft while the chute cords and his body tore out most of the side of the fuselage before exiting and removing the entire starboard horizonal tailplane.
Fortunately the other parachutists onboard were able to make their escape although if i recollect correctly both the pilot [who had no parachute] and the parachutist concerned died.
This I think illustrates that a parachute with a human at the end, can and will do severe damage to an aircraft if not destroy it, and thats without adding the impact of flying into it as well

DGC763
01-04-2006, 04:46 PM
There are also picture of aircraft that have hit telephone poles and trees and continued flying home. So I suppose it would all depends. I have no doubt that hitting a parachute would be not healthy for your aircraft. I think it would not always remove a wing, yet sometimes would.

blakduk
01-04-2006, 08:14 PM
There was a BBC TV series made in the early 1970's called 'The World at War'. In the episode that covered the battle of Britain an RAF pilot described snagging the parachute of a German pilot- he stated he was very careful to get him off in one piece! I cant recall how he did this- i think he rolled to let him slide off.
Conversely, i recall reading an account of the Schweinfurt raid by the 8th AF- it inluded an account of a gunner bailing out and hitting a LW fighter, killing him and destroying the aeroplane. It was witnessed by a B17 crew flying near it.
It seems there was a chance of the AC surviving if it hit the 'chute, but if it struck a human body..... lets just say there arent many Geese that way approximately 80kg, so not many planes are rated for that type of bird strike!