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View Full Version : Important(& relevant) aircraft that never get modelled.



XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 09:36 AM
Havoc/Boston
B26 Marauder
Liberator
Dornier 17 & 217

It takes a lot of time and effort to create aircraft for this sim, so why is so much of it spent on irrelevant aircraft such as the P80, Zero, B1, Kawasaki etc.


http://dogtail2.freeservers.com/images/109s_returning[reduced).jpg

"Spring chicken to shyte-hawk in one easy lesson"

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 09:36 AM
Havoc/Boston
B26 Marauder
Liberator
Dornier 17 & 217

It takes a lot of time and effort to create aircraft for this sim, so why is so much of it spent on irrelevant aircraft such as the P80, Zero, B1, Kawasaki etc.


http://dogtail2.freeservers.com/images/109s_returning[reduced).jpg

"Spring chicken to shyte-hawk in one easy lesson"

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 10:14 AM
I wondered about that fact for a long time since Il2 but have since given up to think about it.

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 10:22 AM
Important & relevant to whom?
I would much rather see the P-80 and Kawasaki aircraft in the game than the Dornier 17 & 217. I don't really care about the others either way. If the Havoc/Boston, B-26 Marauder, B-24 Liberator, etc. get modelled, thats great--more planes.
Not only that, but the P-80, Reisen, et al are already done, or nearly done, so why whine about them?
This is a game, not a documentary. Why can't the modellers just create the planes they like?

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 01:25 PM
JR_Greenhorn wrote:
- This is a game, not a documentary. Why can't the
- modellers just create the planes they like?

heh exactly.... who wants to have the really useless planes just because they were at the eastern front when there are really awesome ones just begging to be moddeled

when im in a DF server i couldnt care less about where the map is based ... i just want to fly the best WW2 Fighters in FB , the best WW2 flight sim

ppl who want realism can choose not to DL them or delete them ... NO CONFLICT

but saying they shouldnt come to FB is selfish & mean-spirited

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 01:34 PM
A-20 Boston /Havoc is on its way

http://www.raf27.hpg.ig.com.br/imgsite/039.jpg


http://www.raf27.hpg.ig.com.br/imgsite/032.jpg



B-24 Liberator too, sry no pics because www.ilcenter.com (http://www.ilcenter.com) is often down


Do-17, i think someone is working on it, but not sure, same prob with il2center

never saw a B-26

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/franky.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 01:44 PM
Most important aircraft which aren`t flyable in the game:

Ju88
Me110
Spitfire
Pe2
IL4
I.A.R
FiatG50
Me210


"degustibus non disputandum"

<center>http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

<center>"Weder Tod noch Teufel!"</font>[/B]</center> (http://www.jzg23.de>[B]<font)

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 03:00 PM
WUAF_Badsight wrote:
- who wants to have the really useless
- planes just because they were at the eastern front
- when there are really awesome ones just begging to
- be moddeled
-
- when im in a DF server i couldnt care less about
- where the map is based ... i just want to fly the
- best WW2 Fighters in FB , the best WW2 flight sim
-
- ppl who want realism can choose not to DL them or
- delete them ... NO CONFLICT
-
- but saying they shouldnt come to FB is selfish &
- mean-spirited
-
-

OK

On that basis would you like to like to see X-Wing fighters and dark empire spaceships? They must be quite 'awesome'.Are these any less relevant than the P8o which saw no WW2 combat.

My point is not that all this other non-theatre(non ww2)stuff shouldnt come to FB for those that want to blatt about in anything with a gun, but that there is stuff that should come first because it is relevant historically to the available map areas.

By the way Badsight.If you had been on the recieving end of those Havocs, Marauders etc in 1944, I dont think you would be calling them useless now.

Frankyboy, that Boston looks fantastic, cant wait/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


http://dogtail2.freeservers.com/images/109s_returning[reduced).jpg

"Spring chicken to shyte-hawk in one easy lesson"

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 03:15 PM
Well... Want to do them yourself? Get a modeling program, read up on what you need to do, and get started! You obviously like the Pe-2, Pe-8, Hs129, etc. better than the rest of us - makes you a better candidate to do them!

It's not as hard as some of these guys make it sound. If it weren't for all the extra models you had to do for a paticular plane...

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 03:18 PM
Must important and relevant aircraft not modelled in this game,,,,,,,,easy..... Spitfire.

My worry is I think it's deleberate,,, flame away

JH

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 03:23 PM
Here, here. Carguy is absolutely right. Why on earth are we getting a zero before a Spitfire?!!!! I'm kind of going crazy too because I'm probably the only one who wants the Fi156 and the Po-2 to be flyable. Oh well, a new plane is better than nothing at all. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

---------------------------------------
http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/109K.jpg


I STILL love my 109!

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 03:25 PM
carguy_ wrote:
- Most important aircraft which aren`t flyable in the
- game:
-
- Ju88
- Me110
- Spitfire
- Pe2
- IL4
- I.A.R
- FiatG50
- Me210
-
-

i couldn't agree more.. Except some morem such as HS.129, PE-3, Tu-2, more Stuka variants, DB-3..
Ju-188m BF-110..

Now after that we would have the perfect eastern frong simulation /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Bombers should be priority.. as we are lacking them seriously


____________________________________



Official Sig:



<center>http://koti.mbnet.fi/vipez/shots/Vipez4.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 03:34 PM
just before a missunderstanding grows /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

i ONLY postet the pictures here, i dont make the modell /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/franky.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 03:50 PM
I do tend to agree why do the P80 as it never saw war service and is a bit over the top.

The game is about the Russian Theater I also think it should be kept along those lines, want another jet? what about the good old Meatbox, that flew combat missions during the war and if it wasn't for the engine information provided the P80 would still be sitting on the Apron /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif To take a plane out of its historical context and drop it into a game will tend to mess up the performance characteristics of the Aircraft as a contemporary Aircraft from the same time line will be pretty much matched performance wise, what the heck why dont you just go the whole hog skip a few decades and chuck a Phantom into the game for good measure after all thats what you are hoping to do with the P80.

Anyway climbing in the top through the window, then having to set fire to its arse end to get it off the ground will never catch on....sigh oh for a prop,

Might as well model the Skyraider too drool, after all that didnt see action in WW2 either



Message Edited on 08/02/0302:52PM by Taylortony

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 04:09 PM
must admit I'd like FB to get a complete set of EF flyables - then let's have all the other well remembered battles that can then be added to forgotten battles.

C'mon, is modelling really that easy (even if you have no artistic talent/computer skills like me?)? What program should I get? I have some time now...

Imagine the ground attack possibilities if we had a decent model of the Death Star.

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 04:57 PM
Taylortony wrote:
- I do tend to agree why do the P80 as it never saw
- war service and is a bit over the top.


AFAIK two of`em had been seen in Italy in fall of `45.Enough of a reason ,for many players, to be in FB(not me though).

"degustibus non disputandum"

<center>http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

<center>"Weder Tod noch Teufel!"</font>[/B]</center> (http://www.jzg23.de>[B]<font)

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 05:56 PM
Well, I got this sim because it WAS the Eastern Front. Planes and conflicts I'd never seen before. When I got IL-2 I had gone through Janes WW2 Fighters, EAW and CFS2. I was looking for something different. I found that in IL-2 plus a superior flight model.

Obviously Oleg and 1C don't have the time to give us every EF plane as a flyable model. They have Lock On to work on too. If I'm not mistaken, most of the "non Eastern Front" planes we are getting are from third partys, they just have to get Oleg's approval to call them FB "add-on" planes. Most of Olegs Development Updates show that 1C is working on FB/Eastern Front planes to put in as add-ons. This is what I'm waiting for in particular.

Now, with that said, I would like to see certain mods using the IL-2/FB model. AVG Flying Tigers, carrier operations in the Pacific, (I loved taking off and landing on them in CFS2, but with this FM....oooh, ahhhhh), the Desert War in North Africa, the list goes on. (A Luft46 mod would be a hoot. The Star Wars mod for IL-2FB!)

If the patch "fixes" the bugs in FB 1C might just move on to other sims. In that case this community can come to the fore with mods/planes/maps to keep this game as alive as Falcon 4.0 is.


*****Only left handed people are in their right minds.*****

<center>http://www.ghosts.com/images/wing.jpg


Message Edited on 08/02/0310:10AM by rexcarrs

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 06:12 PM
Nearly all of the non-Eastern front aircraft are thrid party addons, made on someone else's time and money. The only exception is the P-51. Oleg is modelling that aircraft personally, possibly in an attempt to control any flame wars that will result from it, but that is it.

As for why none of these individuals have moddeled the Do.17, A-20 Havoc, B-24, or B-26, we are individuals, often with limited time, resources, or experience in the field. Those planes are big, and they are complicated to model, and making them flyable is even worse.

Go read up on the problems the modeller that's making the Ju-88 flyable is having, and you will see what I mean. They have to model at least four separate flying stations, and all of them must be able to see the other flying stations, and he has to keep this within the poly limits for a single flight station. It's an incredibly difficult task.

Harry Voyager

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YQDLAswcqmIpvWP9dLzZVayPXOmo6IJ16aURujNfs4dDETH84 Q6eIkCbWQemjqF6O8ZfvzlsvUUauJyy9GYnKM6!o3fu!kBnWVh BgMt3q2T3BUQ8yjBBqECLxFaqXVV5U2kWiSIlq1s6VoaVvRqBy Q/Avatar%202%20500x500%20[final).jpg?dc=4675409848259594077

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 07:32 PM
laugh out loud,,,,,, yes it all about relevance,,,,, so why not to many people talking about the Spit,,, oh yes now I understand,,,relevance (Head shaking slowly)

Any chance of some McDonalds Adverts on the sides of Russian tanks in FB please!!

JH

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 07:35 PM
No air craft is irrelevant

---------------------------------------
A to the K to 4 to the 7 little
devils dont go heaven Freedom got a AK
---------------------------------------

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 08:44 PM
How come no one seems to mention the mosquito afterall stalin had his own mossy and pilot on standby ready to evacuate him as the germans were getting too close for cumfort. Their was an article in flypast some time ago with photos about it, quite a few mossys were ordered by satalin evidently but im not quite sure how they were used.
Does anyone else know anything about them??

Would certainly be the best twin engined aircraft in the game without a doubt, would be so cool to have spits and mossys in FB and no one can whine about them not having been in service on the eastern front because the russkys used em...

oh and a meteor for good measure allthough i dont think they served on the eastern front

and a griffoned engined spit that would definately WOOP ***!!!



Message Edited on 08/02/0307:48PM by johno__UK

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 08:54 PM
no donier17s or condors???i dont understand wanting to have british,american or japanese planes in a game about the russian air war.

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 09:59 PM
IMHO with the addition of the Normandy map the Typhoon is the most relevant plane not being modelled. Who is going to bust up all those german tanks, trains, radar sites, etc.? Getting the Typhoons landed in France was a priority for the Allies. The day after (or 2 days after) the invasion of Normandy a Typhoon squadron was flown in to establish a base. The base was attacked and the Typhoons returned to England, but returned and were established by the end of June.

I know we are getting the Tempest eventually but that is not the same. The Typhoon performed from late '41 until the end of the war and Tempest did not carry rockets into combat (even though they could). A Normandy map without Typhoons is like an O'douls, it tastes a little like beer but something very important is missing. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I can't believe nobody is doing the Typhoon. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 10:51 PM
macker33 in a way i understand your view but wouldnt it be better if the sim could expand to all theatres including the aircraft from them. Those people that just want to fly the eastern front and the relevant aircraft from it can do so, no one is forced to fly aircraft they dont want to but with different theatres and aircraft their will be something for everyone giving them a chance to fly their favourite aircraft using the FB engine.

Expanding the best flight sim out their to more theatres can only be a posotive thing for ubi and us.....

anyone who wants to stay on the eastern front can do so

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 11:31 PM
Yeah then the could call it IL2 Forgotten Battles and a Few i Have Remembered..... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 03:07 AM
I see lots of you biatchin about the P80, but not about the Horten wing thing. Are you just as miffed about that one? Or am I sensing a little Luftbias here?


Personally I'll take any aircraft that someone spent his time and money to model for this sim.

If you don't like the P80, or whatever plane you don't like, you don't have to fly it. You can ban it from your servers too. (You do host don't you?)


Sometimes I think some of you would biatch about gettin a free Mercedes because you think a BMW is better....

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

<center><FONT color="red">[b]BlitzPig_EL</FONT>[B]<CENTER> http://old.jccc.net/~droberts/p40/images/p40home.gif
</img>.
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. "
--T.E. Lawrence

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 03:51 AM
The P-80? It's a beautiful aircraft but seems a little too modern for my taste, could be fun to compare the 262 and 80, but I feel the P-80 will have the upper hand, I don't know much about the P-80 but since the American war industry wasn't under the same pressure as the Germans and they had the time and materials to perfect the aircraft and probably wouldn't rush it into service, my guess is the P-80 is in another league. Wasn't the P-80 the aircraft you shouldn't land wheels-up??

I'll take whatever people spend their time modelling, if I don't like them I can always kill them/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

rgds

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 04:39 AM
What I'd really like to see before I get the P-80 is a hundred dogfights in the air at the same time. In reality, there would be hundreds of planes up in the air at the same time. Gen K. A. Vershinin reported seeing an aircraft fall every ten minutes over his headquarters at Abinskaya in the Kuban (Red Phoenix, von Hardesty). I can't see this happening in FB. Instead of adding new aircraft, shouldn't Oleg be concentrating on improving game code as much as possible.



http://www.student.richmond.edu/~vk5qa/images/forumsig.jpg


"Come on in, I'll treat you right. I used to know your daddy."

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 05:28 AM
AFAIK extra planes are shaped by 3rd party moddelers then their whole Flight Model is created by 1C games

Oleg Maddox is only saved thr shape creation & cockpit creation process ( a Lot of work ) then his team codes the flight model behaviour ( even more work )

but we get extra planes a LOT faster because of these moddelers

Dogtail2 wrote : " On that basis would you like to like to see X-Wing fighters and dark empire spaceships? They must be quite 'awesome'.Are these any less relevant than the P8o which saw no WW2 combat. "

if you read my post you would see i wanted the best WW2 fighters
the star wars comment is your exageration

the P-80 WAS IN WW2 ........ getting it to fly means we can go head to head against ME-262s .....
simply awesome

the Gloster Meteor deserves even MORE priority IMO & if we ever get that i will again say YAY & thank the moddelers

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 05:34 AM
Im all for new aircraft but flightsims in 2003 should not have ai non flyables or maps that have edges and end.


http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif

Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 05:42 AM
JG53Frankyboy wrote:
- A-20 Boston /Havoc is on its way
-

LOOKS GOOD.

<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_potter_anim.gif (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

EDIT: And I understand that you did not model that one yourself after reading your follow-up post. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Message Edited on 08/03/0304:52AM by rbstr44

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 05:43 AM
UR_Spinne wrote:
- What I'd really like to see before I get the P-80 is
- a hundred dogfights in the air at the same time. In
- reality, there would be hundreds of planes up in the
- air at the same time. Gen K. A. Vershinin reported
- seeing an aircraft fall every ten minutes over his
- headquarters at Abinskaya in the Kuban (Red Phoenix,
- von Hardesty). I can't see this happening in FB.
- Instead of adding new aircraft, shouldn't Oleg be
- concentrating on improving game code as much as
- possible.

He is!!!

The planes the Gibbage and others model realy don't cost Oleg anything. They are done by those who love the planes enough to spend hundreds of hours on them and they are included by Oleg because he that cool of a guy.

If your favorate plane isn't flyable. Build it, or at least build the cockpit. No one is stopping you. We want you to do it. No, we are begging you to do it.

And if you can't do it then go to the local art school with some drawing and pay some students to do it for you. Or better yet, go to china, I'm sure you will be able to find guys who can use 3d Studio Max who would work for a dollar an hour. And I'm sure you would still of spent less money then Gibbage did for his schooling.

I'm on my knees, please Carguy, for the love of all that is good and holy... texture and model us a cockpit for the Pe-2. And dogtail could you please make us a Dornier 217, you may have to quit your job to do it. But it is well worth it.

It isn't enought that we have 150 flyable planes, many of which have never been in another flight simulator. I will not be happy utill every airplane design that was ever sketched on the back of a cocktail napkin between the dates of 1938 till 1944 is in the game and flyable. All verients. No excuses. And it better fly like I heard some guy say it did when I was a kid or there will be hell to pay.



Clay.Pigeon


http://www.aviation-central.com/1940-1945/images/aeb00-p61.gif


Message Edited on 08/02/0309:44PM by Clay.Pigeon

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 05:46 AM
LOL /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

rgds

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 06:01 AM
No Text

Message Edited on 08/02/0310:24PM by Clay.Pigeon

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 07:30 AM
i wouldnt mind seeing the TA-183 fly in a sim

Zayets
08-03-2003, 08:41 AM
carguy_ wrote:
- Most important aircraft which aren`t flyable in the
- game:
-
- Ju88
- Me110
- Spitfire
- Pe2
- IL4
- I.A.R
- FiatG50
- Me210
-


carguy resumed it correctly


Zayets out

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 12:46 PM
more planes that havent been done properly,Almost every english planes havent been done:

manchester
lancaster
wellington
short stirling
short sunderland
swordfish
beaufighter

also

b29
komet
kittyhawk
that italian 3engined bomber(saetta?)

these are significant planes,give things time though and every single plane ever will get done.

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 04:47 PM
Carguy hit the nail on the head...lets concentrate first on the planes that really were on the eastern front, especially the ones in the game already that arent flyable.

To each his own concerning all the other irrelevant planes people want to put in here. I would'nt mind trying them out just for fun..but when its time to get serious, for the sake of realism ( which makes this a simulation and not a game ) I for one will try to avoid servers using planes that were not in this theater.

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 06:52 PM
The fact that these "irrelevants" are being made by 3rd party modelers seems still not to be registering here.

If anyone wants to complain about the plane choices of these un-paid enthusiasts, please start sending them a salary.

Then you get to complain and direct.

If there is a plane you'd like to see, request it.

If you'd like to know whats in the pipeline, visit IL2center(when its up)

If you spot an inaccuracy in a model, point it out at Oleg's ready room.

If you think these modelers are on the wrong course, buy 3DMax, teach yourself and start modeling.

Otherwise, please hide your ignorance by refraining from posting directions and organizational schedules in threads like this one.Unless you are a modeler yourself, which, in my opinion, buys you the right to do whatever you want around here.



<center> ================================================== ========================= </center>
<center>http://www.triplane.net/cyak2.jpg </center>

S!Cirx

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 08:29 PM
WUAF_Badsight wrote:
-
- if you read my post you would see i wanted the best
- WW2 fighters
- the star wars comment is your exageration
-
- the P-80 WAS IN WW2 ........ getting it to fly means
- we can go head to head against ME-262s .....


Lets get this straight.
The P80 Existed in 1945.Only 4 YP80A service test aircraft were shipped to Europe and none of them flew combat missions.None saw combat in any other theatre in ww2 as far as i know.
If that is enough to qualify it to be 'IN WW2' by your criteria, then i admit defeat.

Now that we will have Normandy, the Typhoon,Spit and Mosquito should become priorities.





http://dogtail2.freeservers.com/images/109s_returning[reduced).jpg

"Spring chicken to shyte-hawk in one easy lesson"

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 11:17 PM
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Before anything else is modelled, the most important aircraft we are missing, (and the game suffers terrifically because of it) is the BV 222

http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/nightschpanker/bv222-001.jpg



the Bf162 Jaguar

http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/nightschpanker/Bf_162_Jaguar.jpg


And the aircraft that won the war, the Blackburn Roc Seaplane

http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/nightschpanker/Roc.jpg


Without any of these, the Bf 109s, Ju87 etc are irrelevant.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

It's only funny til someone loses an eye....then it's hilarious


http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/nightschpanker/usp266.jpg