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blairgowrie
12-06-2004, 07:52 AM
While flying on line with my buddies on Saturday night someone brought up a question about Bob versus asked AEP and PF. The question was " Will Bob have as much appeal as AEP and PF given the type of aircraft involved in the Battle of Britain (e.g most of the British fighters were Hurricanes and the FW190 didn't appear until after BoB) and would the US and other non-involved markets have much interest in BoB?

We didn't spend a lot of time on the discussion but the consensus was that BoB might not have the same wide appeal.

Were we missing something in our discussion?

blairgowrie
12-06-2004, 07:52 AM
While flying on line with my buddies on Saturday night someone brought up a question about Bob versus asked AEP and PF. The question was " Will Bob have as much appeal as AEP and PF given the type of aircraft involved in the Battle of Britain (e.g most of the British fighters were Hurricanes and the FW190 didn't appear until after BoB) and would the US and other non-involved markets have much interest in BoB?

We didn't spend a lot of time on the discussion but the consensus was that BoB might not have the same wide appeal.

Were we missing something in our discussion?

Breeze147
12-06-2004, 07:57 AM
Speaking for myself, as a Yank, I got a huge kick out of discovering the whole new world of the Eastern Front and flying for the Russians. I play lots of missions in the Hurricane on Extreme One's BoB. I never would have thought that I could have enjoyed flying German or Japanese planes, but I do. (I hope some of my old uncles never find out http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif) Sure, I would love a good Battle Of Britain sim.

MEGILE
12-06-2004, 08:01 AM
I think the fact that BoB is going to have major improvements over PF, will over-come the idea that it concentrates "too narrowly".

TangmerePhilipp
12-06-2004, 08:12 AM
BoB is a glamorous, well known battle. By glamorous I mean that it is a classic tale of a small yet valiant and determined people, defending their homeland against seemingly overwhelming odds.

That is just one of the reasons I believe it will have wide appeal.

I believe that in order for 1CM to capitlize on that, it is essential that they provide an immersive BoB atmosphere with all the details that make the gameplay more fun like looks, period music, good speech packs, better sounds (lots of famous sounds like Merlins in this period), a good modelling of fighter command (radar, scrambles, control maps etc.) and many many more.

The setting lends itself for some spectacular features, the question is what will the devs make of it. Personally I think it will be a fantastic job on Mr. Maddox^s part!

elephant_il2
12-06-2004, 08:16 AM
And don't forget that BoB intends to be a new starting point to WWII Air Combat sims with addon suport that will expand it to other theatres as well(the Med may be for start?),
although I dont predict so easy death of the FB series.

dieg777
12-06-2004, 09:41 AM
BOB will have a new game engine which should improve over the IL2 in every way.
I dont think they will limit the timeframe to so narrow a period as the actual BOB- a slight expansion before could see the Polish, Norwegen and battle of France campaigns including the Dunkirk evacuations ; while latter there were the RAF offensive rhubarbs, the FW summer and later still bomber escorts over Germany
Maybe even the Africa and Malta campaigns
But best of all Spitfires LOTS and LOTS of Spitfires http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif
But then again Im a Scot so obviously have been brought up with stories of this era and perhaps Im a shade biased. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

blairgowrie
12-06-2004, 09:46 AM
You guys make some very good points. Hard to believe they could make it that much better than FB but having said that, I'll be queuing up for my copy of BoB along with the rest of you, when it is finally released.

Just in case you think our group had a national bias, there were two Yanks, a Canuck and an ex-Brit involved in the discussion.

sithgod
12-06-2004, 11:36 AM
I am looking forward to it as I love the Spitfire and Hurricane and I don't mind the 109. Ever since seeing the Battle of Britain movie as a kid. But if they are going to do it I want it to be totally immersive. I find FB already good, but there are a few things that could add just that little bit extra.

I just love WW2 aircraft. I'll fly any of the dynamic campaigns. They are all interesting to me.

Give me a Gloster Gladiator finnish campaign.
I'll fly the Zero because i like the white with black nose camo.
I'll fly the corsair because i used to watch Blacksheep on Saturday afternoons in Australia.
I'll fly the Beaufighter because its cool.

Give me a campaign and i'll fly it. To me its all good.

I do want BoB to be a solid strong title though and I think they have the chance to make a BoB game which will be brilliant if they spend the time on it. Overall I am very happy with the games so far so I don't see why BoB would be done any less.

TgD Thunderbolt56
12-06-2004, 11:54 AM
It will be good...be sure.

I imagine that there are many pilots who will be interested in it for no other reason than their familiarity to 1:C's IL2 franchise.

Previous iterations of The Battle of Britain have proven successful and they should all pale in comparison to the detailed FM's DM's and visuals Oleg's BoB promises.

TB

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
12-06-2004, 12:06 PM
Well given that il2 was origionaly only going to be an ETO sim I think its safe to say that if it makes it to the shelves it will eventualy follow the same path as IL2.

One thing for sure is Oleg wont get a minits peace in here until it does.

Ala11_Kal
12-06-2004, 12:37 PM
Just imagine...

Should I play tonight as a german bomber pilot?? perhaps a Spit or Hurricane pilot? Me-109??

No, tonight i will stay at the radar room and direct my mates to the fight listening to the radio and having a cup of tea.

Wouldn't it be great?

reddevil49
12-06-2004, 12:47 PM
I'd be willing to bet that BOB is just a starting point with the new engine. Once they get the bugs out and running up to snuff then the add ons will begin. Judging by the dedication and support that 1C gives I think we are in for somthing awesome.

J_Weaver
12-06-2004, 12:59 PM
I hope and am pretty sure that BoB will cover more than just the BoB. I just wouldn't make any sense to devlop a new engine and then just cover the BoB with it. I would love to see it cover the MTO. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Lucius_Esox
12-06-2004, 01:00 PM
Hi all,
Agree with all what said about Bob. But one thing I really want is a good singleplayer campiagn. The Dynamic one's since FB have not been as good as the one that shipped with the original IL2 imho. I never thought I would say I prefered scripted over dynamic, but hell I just played HL2 :-) No, really that is a classic example imo of how storyline adds to the immersion. Not saying do away with dynamic campaigns for Bob just great scripted scripted single player one's and an improved Dgen.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BuzzU
12-06-2004, 02:24 PM
I'm looking more forward to BOB than anything that's come out, or is coming out. I think it was an exciting war, and it doesn't need uber planes to be good. I just hope the planes are more difficult to fly than the ones in PF.

Bearcat99
12-06-2004, 03:58 PM
Im looking forward to BoB for the improvements.... if there is one lesson I have taken from IL2 it's that the theater is irrelevent. Its all about the sim. The FMs, DMs, graphics etc. When I came to IL2 it was still a close knit, almost well kept secret... shortly thereafter with the release of FB it exploded onto the sim scene and the flight sim community will never be the same. As soon as I had a PC to run IL2 I bought it. Theateris irrelevent... its all abput the simming for me. Warbirds? Im there.... Thanks to Oleg I now have an even greater passion for the genre now that I have a whole new fleet of warbirds to drool over. Thats what Oleg did fopr me personally. By producing IL2 a whole new world was oipened up to me one that I never even knew existed. From that point on like I said... its all about the simming for me.

LEXX_Luthor
12-06-2004, 05:18 PM
Oleg said BoB AI will see clouds.

Oleg said BoB ground control radar will be modded--hopefully ground observers too, as BoB is just a practice run for later sims needing Aussom Coast Watchers in next Pacific sim and Chinese ground observers and Soviet ground observers--Oleg said return to Easter Front in "7 years."

IanBoys said maps of Italy and The Meds are Reserved by Oleg...obviously not for BoB but for the BoB and Beyond. This means you get your Meds after your BoB.

Battle of France and Poland addon Pacs for BoB are being worked on as we post, and Poland comes dangerously close to Spanish Civil WAR, which means its possible for the first time in flight sim History that we get a real Bf~109. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif Must get SeaFire (or is it IceFire ?? ) to make cartoon of Bf~109Dora strutting on stage as big stage hook drags "Fw" Dora kicking and screaming off the stage.

Hans_Philipp
12-06-2004, 10:58 PM
That's great info Lexx-Thank you.

I assume BoB still has good chances of NOT being dumped?

blairgowrie
12-07-2004, 09:47 AM
I wonder if Mr. Maddox realizes just how much money will be spent on upgrading computers in order to play BoB. I know I will be and will do so willingly.

I just hope he prices the game a lot higher than AEP and PF. Whatever it is, it will be a fraction of what we will all spend on upgrades. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

robban75
12-07-2004, 10:17 AM
I'm guessing that BoB is just like the original IL2 was. The start of something that would expand and expand. So all in all, BoB may turn out to be just like IL2/FB/AEP/PF, but with better graphics and FM's. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif At least I hope so. Can't imagine what I'd do without my beloved D-9! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Wallstein
12-07-2004, 10:51 AM
Perhaps I have nothing new to add to this discussion. I think that most of us prefer this simulator compared to any other flight simulator on the market today, but there are many who wish for a bit more difficult piloting. Otherwise, I agree for example Bearcat´s opinion-what really matters is the sim, not the theatre.

On the other hand, the Battle of Britain was sceary and critical in it´s time and it still is today even though there are not so many aeroplanes available compared to IL-series. The outcome of that just battle had great effect of the European situation for years to come. We don´t know today what USA would have done without UK and what role the nuclear weapons would have played at the end ow the WWII, but one thing is sure: Had the Germans occupied England and Scotland, the war would have been fought differently. Just think about the next phases of the WWII without UK: Battle of Atlantic Ocean, Eastern Front, Japan and all the fighting in far east and Pacific perhaps wihtout Great Britain.

I think that the short weeks of Battle of Britain were something very special in duration of the war in Europe. At that time the war was essentialy not a world war, not yet. To play those hot days in a sim is very exciting because of the historical background. At least for me this one thing despite the opinion, that sim itself really matters and not the theatre. Yet, as I said, I agree Bearcat that the sim is the thing. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Capt.LoneRanger
12-07-2004, 11:08 AM
I was really looking forward to PF and I'm quite happy with it. However, after the hughe amount of planes we've available for flight, I personally long for 3 things:

1. A limited period with highly detailed terrain and realistic FM's for high altitude
2. Sophisticated modells and damage modelling
3. AI that can win by acting clever, not by cheating

Yes, I think BoB will bring this whole series of sim to the next level and it will be a success.

piloteer81
12-08-2004, 05:34 PM
My grandad flew the Hurricane in the last few days of the battle. He was 19!!! From what I've heard about it from someone who was actually there (there are a lot of myths!) the shear numbers of some of the big raids were the most overwhelming aspects. The whole sky was filled with black and grey smoke trails 20mins+ after the initial intercept. The planes I'd expect to see are the Stuka, Hurricane, Spitfire, 109, He-111 and Ju88, as well as the Defiant and possibly the fairy battle.

From what I've read about BoB the game, is that it will allow for much larger numbers of aircraft in any given mission. Today a modest system can handle well over 20 with no negative hits on performance. High end machines can probably cope with well over 50 (I've done a few self made missions with 30+ and it seemed to be ok. In the battle it was not uncommon to have over 100 aircraft just on the German side.

I also agree with another poster, in that fighter control should have some part in the mission user interface. I don't know if anyone here played 1942 pacific air war, but here you could do carrier battles and set airstikes, then hop into a plane at the scene. This was absolutely great. It would be a great shame if this was not expanded upon in BoB as it was a main feature of the battle, as was radar, the scramble and indeed the blitz, when Hitler made the fatal error of going for my home town London, instead of finishing off the RAF airfields which allowed the RAF to recover and last out the summer.

Rola.
12-09-2004, 10:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
IanBoys said maps of Italy and _The Meds_ are Reserved by Oleg...obviously not for BoB but for the BoB and Beyond. This means you get your Meds after your BoB.

Battle of France and Poland addon Pacs for BoB are being worked on as we post, and Poland comes dangerously close to Spanish Civil WAR, which means its possible for the first time in flight sim History that we get a _real_ Bf~109. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm aware of the fact, that no matter how attractive the Poland'39 we can make (by adding more early Luftwaffe stuff, for example, for all the Luftwhiners out there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ), many people will moan "hey, it's only Poland". So my "plan B" I have presented to Oleg is more like a Blitzkrieg pack than "just" 9/39.

I made a quick comparison with the planes used during SCW and it turned out that with early Luftwaffe birds (109B, C, D) and a bonus Soviet I-16 & SB-2 (planned for Poland'39 campaign to cover the fights from September 17th) we could make Spanish Civil War - just add a map and warm it up in the oven for 5min.! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
And it still closes with a pretty modest number of a/c to be built, so it's not impossible.

So start your whines, make sure UBI knows what you want http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


As for the Med we'll make a nice P.24 for Greeks vs Italians campaign (one of our modelers is a Greek aviation engineer).

1.JaVA_Hornet
12-09-2004, 11:11 AM
And I am thinking how Holland will be made.
Is it possible to take of from a dutch
airfield (waalhaven, Rotterdam)?

I am very curious.

Rola.
12-09-2004, 11:41 AM
1.JaVA_Hornet, just FYI, we'd like to build Fokker F.VIIb-3m (albeit AI only) for 9/39 project.

trumper
12-09-2004, 12:05 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifI am sure that Oleg and Ian Boys said at the Birmingham flight sim show a couple of years ago that the B o B was going to be a completely new developement and it would use the BoB as a testing ground and then expand onwards to other theatres.
Are there any developement updates anywhere please.

musickna
12-09-2004, 12:18 PM
I also think BoB will be a 'seed' program, much like Il-2 was, leading to larger and more inclusive arenas. Clearly the Med is already booked for this.

By incorporating all the lessons, feedback and issues raised by Il-2 into a newer and doubtless more sophisticated simulation engine, I cannot see how BoB can fail to be anything less than another revelatory experience in the way the IL-2 was when it first came out.

IL-2 will always remain unique in its impact. In addition to being miles ahead of the competition in programming sophistication, it also introduced a battle arena that had been almost totally ignored (a few user-built add-ons to CFS2 being the exception). BoB's expansion into the Med will pretty much cover the last truly unexplored arena, even if it does not do this on initial release.

Personally, I am extremely excited by what is to come, even if remains a year or two ahead of us. By that time, a newer and more powerful generation of computers should be readily available & hopefully not too prohibitively priced. It's all going to be a lot of fun!

MEGILE
12-09-2004, 12:25 PM
It just dawned on me... what are the FW-190 pilots going to fly during the Battle of Britain? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

fherathras
12-09-2004, 01:40 PM
ah. man. I would love seeing something done in the Norwegian theather

buz13
12-09-2004, 05:18 PM
BoB should attract people because so many nations had pilots involved flying for the British. Even tho aircraft selection is limited it could be large if all the aircraft that actually participated are involved and there is a good selection of flyable aircraft that are not just fighters...needs flyable bombers. Also how the campaign is sturctured (historical)can make it very interesting...especially if the Germans could win and invade England at the end.
My biggest concern is that it's likely to require another computer upgrade that I can't afford so it may not end up on my hard drive.

BuzzU
12-09-2004, 05:24 PM
BOB lasted from July 1940 to Oct 1940. Common sense tells us Oleg will have to expand on this.

TooCooL34
12-09-2004, 05:33 PM
Anyway, what's up with Tom Cruise' "The Few" or something which is BOB movie. Was it just a rumor? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

It will boost sales of Oleg's BOB like he did in 1986 with Top Gun. (thou there were no jet sim then. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ) Maybe Oleg is waiting for it's crank in.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
12-09-2004, 05:44 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/hodgesmain.jpg

OOOO's dis farking Tom Cruise fella then aye?!?! And Put that farking light out!!!

james_ander
12-09-2004, 05:46 PM
If BoB does well, I'm sure it will get expanded. I have a feeling though, that it will co-exist with IL2 for awhile until more theatres are included. I think IL2 has a lot of staying power. I still find the original IL2 quite good.

knightflyte
12-20-2004, 03:06 PM
It will be a sim I pick up on delivery day.

The added bonus is that once I configure a new PC to run BOB the added benifit is it will run IL2 so well I can design missions that will blow away anything I can do today. (not in quality mind you.... but in quantity and complexity)

That says a lot for the staying power for IL2. How many games have that kind of shelf life?
(Heck if the original IL2 supported Track IR better I'd have THAT on my hard drive now.)

Capt.LoneRanger
12-20-2004, 03:23 PM
I am sorry, but your statement is incorrect, BuzzU. What is commonly known as the BattleOfBritain began with the German operation "Adlertag" on August 13th, 1940. It was planned to be the preparation for the invasion of the island (Operation: Seeloewe).

On September, 17th '41 the operation Seeloewe was cancelled and the to that date offensive air war against Britain was changed to a more moderate level. The bombing and the battle continued, but Hitler concentrated on the eastern front.
Up until D-Day there was heavy fighting over the canal, so if they really modell the whole scene, they've plenty of aircraft involved and definately more than 3 month of fighting.

flyingscampi
12-20-2004, 04:54 PM
The thought of dogfighting in and out of bomber formations and clouds at 25,000ft over my home town (Biggin Hill).... Can't wait.

I'm hoping that the AI and game engine gets development priority over special effects and eye candy however.

F19_Orheim
12-20-2004, 06:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fherathras:
ah. man. I would love seeing something done in the Norwegian theather <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Aye, Can you guys see yourself flying low through the fjords of Norway.. in a Mosquito... or why not a Gladiator (fighting Bf 110's)... WHAt a scenery..

Sig.Hirsch
12-20-2004, 06:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
I am sorry, but your statement is incorrect, BuzzU. What is commonly known as the BattleOfBritain began with the German operation "Adlertag" on August 13th, 1940. It was planned to be the preparation for the invasion of the island (Operation: Seeloewe).

On September, 17th '41 the operation Seeloewe was cancelled and the to that date offensive air war against Britain was changed to a more moderate level. The bombing and the battle continued, but Hitler concentrated on the eastern front.
Up until D-Day there was heavy fighting over the canal, so if they really modell the whole scene, they've plenty of aircraft involved and definately more than 3 month of fighting. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes exactly http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
The first opposition between RAF and Focke Wulf aircraft was in September 1941 over dunkirk , it was a great shock to the RAF as they lost many aircraft whitout inflicting damage to their ennemy , they called it "Würger" ,
It was Fw-190 A1 , but not many of them were produced , a bit more than 100 copies , but some sources say up to 400 if u believe it , anyway , if BoB covers all the conflict , this aircraft should be in http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

(too bad A2 was in Oktober http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif ) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

WIFC_subg
12-20-2004, 08:23 PM
and if u carry it on from late 40 into 41 you get the previously rarely talked about tip and run raids with 190s involved until 1943 - hell im gonna have to jabo my lovely old city (Norwich) which of course had the Boulton and Paul factory not far from where our football ground is now - the first raid badly overshot and messed up many terraced housing in the area i live in now - it will be weird but awesome fun if they get it all right

Bulls-eye
12-21-2004, 03:32 AM
I do hope that when it finally arrives it silences all the moaners and the whiners that have plagued the forums over the years.
Can we have this... can we have that...my role rate/climb rate/firing rate must be wrong cus I was shot down 6 times last night. When we attack truck convoys, wouldn't it be great if we saw little men jump out with guns in their hands and start shooting at us(remember that one?) Oleg will get the dynamics right the best he can and we all accept it. It should be well tested before going on sale and bug-free. Then Oleg and his team should go on holiday, far away from the 'Wouldn't it be great if...and 'All we need now is...' brigade.

Capt.LoneRanger
12-21-2004, 08:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Oleg will get the dynamics right the best he can and we all accept it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Sure! Nobody will complain about physics in BoB, trust me - LOL http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

rjb1fgc
12-21-2004, 07:00 PM
IF the new game engine is done as well as the intent seems to be it will be extensible, I'm sure. That could mean that it could be licensed to other developers for creation of WWI sims, jet fighter sims ( since it's aparently designed to interact with radar controllers ) and commercial aviation sims. Oleg & crew could continue with their passion for historical accuracy and "improving the breed" with the $ they could derive from such licensing and have input into derivative works if they so desired. It would also lead to new maps eventually being developed from sattelite photo mapping. There's obviously the interest in this from many quarters but presently no way to generate realistic cash flow to finance even small parts of such mapping. Maybe EA forsees this and wants in before MS decides to pony up the money to buy it all.

WTE_Ibis
12-22-2004, 03:03 AM
I'm sure it will be great,I'm saving for upgrade
but I sure hope I can hear the real sounds of
wonderfull engines howling in full flight and not
just generic sounds.
Cheers, Ibis.