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View Full Version : Reserching ME410 remote control guns...HELP!



zardozid
08-22-2008, 12:30 AM
I have been looking around the web and in a few books but I have had no success in...

Researching/information on how the "FDL 131" remote control guns work on a ME410?

The remote control system looks very interesting to me but I'm not sure how they operate (and my curious mind must crack this nut). I look at pictures of the system and it appears to use the traditional reflection gun sights we find on most aeroplanes of the time...and their is one "gun handle" to aim & fire the rear guns. But how are they actually aimed? And how are the gun sights fixed to the guns? What is the theory behind the gun system? How is it set up?

Can anyone point me twords a web site or research papers or something????

http://www.pilotfriend.com/photo_albums/images13/37.jpg
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/201-300/walk205_Me410/images_Dave_Wadman/32-Rear_cockpit2.JPG
http://www.avionesclasicos.com/luftwaffe/me410.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1012/528319185_5c323ea259.jpg?v=0

Jaws2002
08-22-2008, 01:32 AM
" The Me 410B-2 at the Soviet AF Scientific Research Institute. In 1944, our specialists used materials our allies published in order to study gun mounts used in aviation in Italy, Britain, and Germany. Engineer E. M. Peysakhovich wrote the following: "the Germans and Italians used movable gun turrets containing one or two heavy 12.7-13mm machine guns to protect their bombers from attack by modern fighters... They proved to be quite effective". In these movable turrets, mechanical drive replaced manual control. The most interesting were remotely operated gun turrets that made it possible to rationally position the gunners and their weapons.
Peysakhovich thought that the most successful design solution was the German FDSL-B131 remotely controlled machine gun turret that made it possible to lay the gun vertically at angles of 72? and horizontally at angles of -3? to +48? to the Me 210 aircraft axis. This turret provided better protection than the Bf 110 flexible gun mount. The control unit comprised a tube fitted with gun-laying control device containing an electropneumatic loader and firing solenoid. The tube was positioned at eye level for the gunner-radio operator. Revi 25B gun sights synchronized with the airplane's speed were mounted on both sides of this tube.
The Germans did not employ the Me 210 on the Eastern Front and, therefore, Soviet armament specialists could not test the effectiveness of the remotely controlled device. Me 410B-2 from II/ZG26 Group (factory No. 130379) was captured after the war and extensively tested (lead engineer Engineer-Lieutenant Colonel V. Ya. Magon, pilot Major I. P. Piskunov), which confirmed that the FDSL-B131 gun turret operated reliably and easily. "

http://www.airpages.ru/cgi-bin/epg.pl?nav=lw70&page=me410

vpmedia
08-22-2008, 02:32 AM
http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/v/vpmedia/140963/wlviseiixj.jpg

http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/v/vpmedia/140963/mzfyzvbrme.jpg

http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/v/vpmedia/140963/xudmpvoeni.jpg

One13
08-22-2008, 11:09 AM
The following is from "Bomber Aircraft-Combat development in world war two" by Alfred Price.

"The aircraft's wireless operator aimed the guns, using one of the reflector sights fitted on either side of his position. By moving the sight on the target with the control handle, the gunner 'clutched-in' the out-going drive shaft to one or both of the continuosly-rotating drums and thus traversed and elevated one of the guns until it was aligned with the target. The guns were able to traverse between 45 degrees outbard and 2 degrees inboard, and elevate or depress to 70 dgrees of the fuselage centre line."
"For the gunner's peace of mind , the guns were fitted with a simple interruter system which prevented him from shooting bits off the aircraft if they got in the way."

There is an excellent diagram in the book of how the sights were linked to the guns but unfortuanatly I do not have a scanner. They are linked by geared shafts, so it could have been quite an accurate and relyable system. The possible weak link is the friction drums which were belt driven.

I seem to remember a German night-fighter shot down a B-24 with these guns during an intruder mission.

Jaws2002
08-22-2008, 02:28 PM
Found one more drawing

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/<FA>Jaws/a1weaponsangles.jpg

roybaty
08-22-2008, 02:34 PM
"Fascinating."

http://www.marketaz.co.uk/StarTrek/Vulcan/Spock.gif

general_kalle
08-26-2008, 08:21 AM
now i know that this is about the 410 but i read or heard somewhere that the rear gunner controls on the me210 was very ineffektive and impossible to aim properly. But i guess it was changed on the 410?

PanzerAce
08-26-2008, 09:53 AM
Probably not. Tails guns in general are really just there to scare people off and make it a *little* harder to be snuck up on. The only sure way to avoid getting shot down is to have escorts.