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NS38th_Aristaus
01-14-2006, 01:49 PM
Great story I found over at Sim-Outhouse CFS2 Forum.

To those who ask about the ruggedness of American Aircraft like the Thunderbolt, Corsair, Wildcat, Warhawk, and Hellcat..... (I know that Devildog73 was asking about this.) I remembered a great story I read somewhere. Here it is:

June 26, 1943 mission details:


Early in the morning forty-eight Thunderbolts took off from the advanced base at Manston. Having previously been criticized for going off on his own, this morning Johnson resolved to stay in formation. The three squadrons of the 56th Fighter Group were all up: the 61st (Johnson's), 62nd, and 63rd. Before the mission, Johnson felt the cold fear that he always felt, and which he was able to channel into higher alertness. They flew up, over the Channel, into France, and soon spotted sixteen Fw-190s. Before Johnson could communicate or coordinate with his flight, he was hit. 20mm cannon shells ripped through his plane, smashing the canopy, punching holes in the plane, and inspiring in Johnson an overwhelming urge to bail out. More explosions smashed the plane, and Johnson's frantic "Mayday!" calls drew no response. Fire began to envelope the cockpit.

The Thunderbolt spun crazily out of his control and the twisted and jammed canopy frame resisted his repeated, superhuman, full-body efforts to open it. As he struggled vainly with the canopy, the engine fire miraculously went out, but he could hardly see, as oil spewed back from the battered engine. He tried to squeeze out through the broken glass of the canopy, but the opening was just too small for both him and his chute. Trapped inside the P-47, he next decided to try to crash-land and evade. He turned the plane south, toward Spain - the recommended evasion route. After struggling with hypoxia and hallucinations(?), his thoughts came back into focus and he realized that the aircraft was still flying fairly well. He headed back for England, counting on his high altitude to help him make a long, partially-powered glide back home.
The instrument panel was shattered. The wind constantly blew more oil and hydraulic fluid into his cut up face and eyes. He had neglected to wear his goggles that morning, and any attempt to rub his eyes burned worse than ever. He and his plane were horribly shot up, but incredibly he was still alive. He made for the Channel, desperate to escape the heavily defended enemy territory.

Swiveling constantly, he froze in horror as he spotted a plane approaching him, an Fw-190, beautifully painted in blue with a yellow cowling. Johnson was totally helpless, and just had to wait for the German to get him in his sights and open up. The German closed in, taking his time with the crippled American fighter. Johnson hunched down behind his armor-plated seat, to await the inevitable. The German opened up, spraying the plane with 30-caliber machine gun fire, not missing, just pouring lead into the battered Thunderbolt. Johnson kicked his rudder left and right, slowing his plane to a crawl, and fired back as the German sped out in front of him.
The Focke-Wulf easily avoided the gunfire from the half-blinded Johnson, and circled back, this time pulling level with him. The pilot examined the shattered Thunderbolt all over, looking it up and down, and shook his head in mystification. He banked, pulled up behind Johnson again, and opened up with another burst. Somehow the rugged Republic-built aircraft stayed in the air. The German pulled alongside again, as they approached the southern coast of the Channel. Still flying, Johnson realized how fortunate it was that the German found him after his heavy 20mm cannons were empty.

As they went out over the Channel, the German get behind and opened up again, but the P-47 kept flying. Then he pulled up alongside, rocked his wings in salute, and flew off, before they reached the English coast. Johnson had survived the incredible, point-blank machine gun fire, but still had to land the plane. He contacted Mayday Control by radio, who instructed him to climb if he can. The battered plane climbed, and after more communication, headed for his base at Manston. Landing was touch and go, as he had no idea if the landing gear would work. The wheels dropped down and locked and he landed safely.

Gotta love those rugged American aircraft!! Keep 'em flying!!

For those of you whom are curious where I got this, here is the link:
http://www.acepilots.com/usaaf_rsj.html

NS38th_Aristaus
01-14-2006, 01:49 PM
Great story I found over at Sim-Outhouse CFS2 Forum.

To those who ask about the ruggedness of American Aircraft like the Thunderbolt, Corsair, Wildcat, Warhawk, and Hellcat..... (I know that Devildog73 was asking about this.) I remembered a great story I read somewhere. Here it is:

June 26, 1943 mission details:


Early in the morning forty-eight Thunderbolts took off from the advanced base at Manston. Having previously been criticized for going off on his own, this morning Johnson resolved to stay in formation. The three squadrons of the 56th Fighter Group were all up: the 61st (Johnson's), 62nd, and 63rd. Before the mission, Johnson felt the cold fear that he always felt, and which he was able to channel into higher alertness. They flew up, over the Channel, into France, and soon spotted sixteen Fw-190s. Before Johnson could communicate or coordinate with his flight, he was hit. 20mm cannon shells ripped through his plane, smashing the canopy, punching holes in the plane, and inspiring in Johnson an overwhelming urge to bail out. More explosions smashed the plane, and Johnson's frantic "Mayday!" calls drew no response. Fire began to envelope the cockpit.

The Thunderbolt spun crazily out of his control and the twisted and jammed canopy frame resisted his repeated, superhuman, full-body efforts to open it. As he struggled vainly with the canopy, the engine fire miraculously went out, but he could hardly see, as oil spewed back from the battered engine. He tried to squeeze out through the broken glass of the canopy, but the opening was just too small for both him and his chute. Trapped inside the P-47, he next decided to try to crash-land and evade. He turned the plane south, toward Spain - the recommended evasion route. After struggling with hypoxia and hallucinations(?), his thoughts came back into focus and he realized that the aircraft was still flying fairly well. He headed back for England, counting on his high altitude to help him make a long, partially-powered glide back home.
The instrument panel was shattered. The wind constantly blew more oil and hydraulic fluid into his cut up face and eyes. He had neglected to wear his goggles that morning, and any attempt to rub his eyes burned worse than ever. He and his plane were horribly shot up, but incredibly he was still alive. He made for the Channel, desperate to escape the heavily defended enemy territory.

Swiveling constantly, he froze in horror as he spotted a plane approaching him, an Fw-190, beautifully painted in blue with a yellow cowling. Johnson was totally helpless, and just had to wait for the German to get him in his sights and open up. The German closed in, taking his time with the crippled American fighter. Johnson hunched down behind his armor-plated seat, to await the inevitable. The German opened up, spraying the plane with 30-caliber machine gun fire, not missing, just pouring lead into the battered Thunderbolt. Johnson kicked his rudder left and right, slowing his plane to a crawl, and fired back as the German sped out in front of him.
The Focke-Wulf easily avoided the gunfire from the half-blinded Johnson, and circled back, this time pulling level with him. The pilot examined the shattered Thunderbolt all over, looking it up and down, and shook his head in mystification. He banked, pulled up behind Johnson again, and opened up with another burst. Somehow the rugged Republic-built aircraft stayed in the air. The German pulled alongside again, as they approached the southern coast of the Channel. Still flying, Johnson realized how fortunate it was that the German found him after his heavy 20mm cannons were empty.

As they went out over the Channel, the German get behind and opened up again, but the P-47 kept flying. Then he pulled up alongside, rocked his wings in salute, and flew off, before they reached the English coast. Johnson had survived the incredible, point-blank machine gun fire, but still had to land the plane. He contacted Mayday Control by radio, who instructed him to climb if he can. The battered plane climbed, and after more communication, headed for his base at Manston. Landing was touch and go, as he had no idea if the landing gear would work. The wheels dropped down and locked and he landed safely.

Gotta love those rugged American aircraft!! Keep 'em flying!!

For those of you whom are curious where I got this, here is the link:
http://www.acepilots.com/usaaf_rsj.html

neural_dream
01-14-2006, 01:55 PM
Noone has any doubts about the ruggedness of the P-47 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif. I'm sure some survived even 30mm hits. All (I think all) American aircraft were built with the protection of the pilot as the highest priority. The complete opposite of the Japanese. Even the P-40 was seriously rugged.

berg417448
01-14-2006, 02:00 PM
links to photos of damage to Johnson's P-47:


Cockpit:
http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery/56g/rsj5.jpg

Rudder:
http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Johnson1.JPG

Behind Cockpit:
http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Johnson2.JPG


Right side rear:
http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery/56g/rsj4.jpg

Low_Flyer_MkII
01-14-2006, 02:11 PM
The P-47 was well known for getting the pilot home when other planes would have been ripped to shreds. Thanks for posting.

pourshot
01-14-2006, 02:21 PM
To be honest that does not look so bad, maybe the German with the mg's was a **** shot?

Badsight.
01-14-2006, 02:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by pourshot:
To be honest that does not look so bad, maybe the German with the mg's was a **** shot? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>those pictures never have looked absolutyly critical , but when the story gets re-told Johnsons A/C is riddled with bullets

hundreds of hits apparently

PBNA-Boosher
01-14-2006, 02:35 PM
That's just what I was thinking, Badsight.

neural_dream
01-14-2006, 02:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Then he pulled up alongside, rocked his wings in salute, and flew off </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Some nice story telling here http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif.

danjama
01-14-2006, 02:43 PM
His book is a good read. Thats all i know. Maybe they dont look bad, but one of you try being in his place inside the cockpit when it happened http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif I bet you would absolutely cack yourself worse than he did. Besides, pictures cannot tell a story.

Udidtoo
01-14-2006, 02:50 PM
Yep, all propaganda. Every pilot who either flew or flew against the P-47 agreed to bald face lie and cliam the Tbolt was rugged. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Thanks to the heavens that the truth is finally told and all the simm enthusiasts around the world know the truth about Republic's fragile, glass jawed cream puff.

My uncle ,who refused to take part in the cover up claimed he saw an 11 year old boy out side of Mannheim bring one down with a .22, one round. We haven't seen Uncle Bud since.....excuse me someone's at the do

danjama
01-14-2006, 02:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Udidtoo:
Yep, all propaganda. Every pilot who either flew or flew against the P-47 agreed to bald face lie and cliam the Tbolt was rugged. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Thanks to the heavens that the truth is finally told and all the simm enthusiasts around the world know the truth about Republic's fragile, glass jawed cream puff.

My uncle ,who refused to take part in the cover up claimed he saw an 11 year old boy out side of Mannheim bring one down with a .22, one round. We haven't seen Uncle Bud since.....excuse me someone's at the do </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

pourshot
01-14-2006, 03:41 PM
I am not saying the Jug was not rugged just that those pictures don€t look as bad as the story makes it out to be that€s all.

IL2-chuter
01-14-2006, 03:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by pourshot:
To be honest that does not look so bad, maybe the German with the mg's was a **** shot? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>those pictures never have looked absolutyly critical , but when the story gets re-told Johnsons A/C is riddled with bullets

hundreds of hits apparently </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A serial number check shows the aircraft never flew again.

A quote from the 56th site:
Slowly, Johnson gathers his wits and removing his parachute, squeezes out of the shattered canopy. Once on the ground he realizes the extent of the damage. Not only to the plane, but to himself. A bullet had nicked his nose. His hands were bleeding from the shrapnel of 20 mm shells that exploded in the cockpit. Two 7.92 mm rounds had hit him in his leg. 21 holes from 20 mm shells are counted in the airframe. He quits counting bullet holes when he reaches 100. It seems as if every square foot of the fighter has a hole in it. Somehow, the P-47 had shrugged off the damage and refused to die. Johnson will recover quickly. The Thunderbolt will not. It was scrapped on the spot, very little could be salvaged that was not damaged.

(The canopy wouldn't open so Johnson popped off the emergency escape panel on the side of it.)

The Jug did tend to catch fire when around AAA (the fuel tank was under the cockpit floor) and when it did pilots were of the mind that they needed to bail very quickly when it did. (This brings up the fancifull fireproofness of the in-game B-25 . . . http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif)

Aaron_GT
01-14-2006, 04:33 PM
Somewhere I have a picture of a Hurricane that returned to base (glided several miles, engine was shot out) with most of the covering of the horizontal stabilisers gone as well as some from the wings. Impressive damage. The Hurricane was quite well known for being able to take battle damage, apart from the engine (this part being spot on in IL2 - the engine easily gets stopped)

Phas3e
01-14-2006, 04:43 PM
Wasn't the pilot Egon Mayer, hardly a **** shot

horseback
01-14-2006, 05:05 PM
Confirm that it was Mayer. He was down to his 7.9mm LMGs when he happened upon Johnson's already badly beat up Jug.

In fact, that evening, or shortly thereafter, Mayer was interviewed by Lord HawHaw, and told the story himself (possibly through HawHaw's interpretation) on the air, never suspecting that his 'victim' was listening on the other side of the Channel...

cheers

horseback

ljazz
01-14-2006, 05:05 PM
How did he keep his ailerons and rudder? Mine are always the first things to get shot out.

ljazz

anarchy52
01-14-2006, 05:24 PM
47 was indeed a very tough built aircraft but in this case they took a bit too much artistic freedom in describing the damage. Reading the story You'd expect to see nothing but scorched twisted metal and plane looking like shot up Il-2 from the game.

21 hits by 20mm...riiiight. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I can see only 2 20mm hits (one behind the cockpit and one on the lower part of the rudder) and a couple of rifle caliber holes in the fuselage...

In game such amount of hits wouldn't even be noticed. Today a B-25 in a popular DF server took 230 hits from me (flying D-9) before it went down with shot up controls. 230 hits from D-9 equals roughly 100 20mm hits.

P.S.
<span class="ev_code_RED">Can You imagine the stories of LaGG-3 pilots http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif</span>

jds1978
01-14-2006, 05:29 PM
the rudder damage in those archive photos looks frightening enough for me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

anarchy52
01-14-2006, 05:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jds1978:
the rudder damage in those archive photos looks frightening enough for me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You get frightened too easily
http://marvin.kset.org/~riddler/109_damage.jpg
http://marvin.kset.org/~riddler/b17.jpg
http://marvin.kset.org/~riddler/B-17_rudder_damage_by_FW-190.gif

berg417448
01-14-2006, 05:34 PM
This would scare me a bit! http://afwing.com/images/p47/p47c-5.JPG

pourshot
01-14-2006, 05:42 PM
Any story to go along with that picture Berg?

berg417448
01-14-2006, 05:43 PM
Have not found a story yet. The photo was posted on a P-47 site without any comments as to how it occurred.

Maybe someone with the proper resources can track the serial number.

pourshot
01-14-2006, 05:45 PM
This is from a Jap AAA round the p40 was also pretty tuff.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/ump.jpg

neural_dream
01-14-2006, 05:49 PM
In the same theme of Rugged American Aircraft.
All (aircraft) made it home:

B-17
http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/nose/nose5.gif

B-17
http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/photos/tail/tail1.gif

P-40
http://www.il2center.com/Reference/Damage/10.jpg

anarchy52
01-14-2006, 05:52 PM
This would make me somewhat worried.
colision with a Spitfire:

http://marvin.kset.org/~riddler/collision.jpg

berg417448
01-14-2006, 07:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by pourshot:
Any story to go along with that picture Berg? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I found this comment about that photo on another site:

"This unknown pilot of the 56th FG managed to nurse this battered P-47 home after taking a flak hit over Dieppe. It must have taken great skill to bring home this Thunderbolt."

horseback
01-14-2006, 08:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anarchy52:
This would make me somewhat worried.
colision with a Spitfire:

http://marvin.kset.org/~riddler/collision.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah, but the Spit only had scraped paint on its wingtip...

cheers

horseback

CUJO_1970
01-14-2006, 08:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anarchy52:
This would make me somewhat worried.
colision with a Spitfire:

http://marvin.kset.org/~riddler/collision.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


anarchy52,

Where did this picture come from, do you know the story behind it?

Looks very much like the damage to a different FW190 from SKG 10 that also collided with a Spitfire and made it back.

danjama
01-14-2006, 09:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by berg417448:
This would scare me a bit! http://afwing.com/images/p47/p47c-5.JPG

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now this is something! I mean WOW! I saw this picture and i really was stunned. Look at it!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

berg417448
01-14-2006, 09:12 PM
No details on this one:

http://www.geocities.com/limeydvr/images/damage.jpg