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View Full Version : P-47 roll rate will be improved



XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 11:13 AM
Hi Guys,

I've just heard from Oleg that the P-47 roll rate will be improved in 1.1 Final.

_____________
Ian Boys
=38=Tatarenko
Kapitan - 38. OIAE

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 11:13 AM
Hi Guys,

I've just heard from Oleg that the P-47 roll rate will be improved in 1.1 Final.

_____________
Ian Boys
=38=Tatarenko
Kapitan - 38. OIAE

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 11:14 AM
Thanks to Buzzsaw and Jaeger for their work.

_____________
Ian Boys
=38=Tatarenko
Kapitan - 38. OIAE

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 11:31 AM
Good news indeed! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"I find your lack of brains disturbing"
http://ourworld.cs.com/Demolisher%20SWE/signature01.jpg
Former Würgerwhiner extraordinaire

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 11:43 AM
very good news, thx .


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Bavaria is one of the oldest European states.
It dates back to about 500 A.D., when the Roman Empire was overcome by the onslaught of Germanic tribes. According to a widespread theory, the Bavarian tribe had descended from the Romans who remained in the country, the original Celtic population and the Germanic invaders.

Bavarian History : http://www.bayern.de/Bayern/Information/geschichteE.html#kap0

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 11:50 AM
thanks for the update.



S!
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XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 11:57 AM
Many thx for all the research, the patience, and the update...I think this is still the best flightsim ever, and it will only get better.

P-47 is an awesome bird now, can't wait for the rollrate fix

http://www.il2skins.com/skins/thumbs/414.jpg

All the best, Don

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 12:18 PM
P39 roll rate should be fixed too. It is about 200% of what it should be in 400km/h. (now around 140deg/s, real 75deg/sec.)

Anyways, good job on noticing this little error in p47 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif It did not take much convincing.

Fix fw190 flying attitude to nose down while you are at it.

-Possu

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 12:29 PM
I wanna thank Buzzsaw, SkyChimp, and Jaeger for all their research and hard work. Thanks guys for getting this fixed. thanks Ian for passing this along too.



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XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 12:33 PM
Great news!!

"We make war that we may live in peace."

Aristotle

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 12:50 PM
Machine was a big help with research and reserved posts.

THANKS GUYS!

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<center><font face="verdana" size="1">Whop!-Whop!

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 01:06 PM
Ok,can we go on to the mixture control issue now?/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"degustibus non disputandum"

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XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 01:09 PM
Great i think it as a little(very) heavy/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

---------------------------------------
A to the K to 4 to the 7 little
devils dont go heaven Freedom got a AK
---------------------------------------

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 01:15 PM
woooheeeeeeey! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

---------------------------------------



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under 30k?

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 01:18 PM
Buzzsaw for president!!!!

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 01:37 PM
thats good news definetly.

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_01.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 01:49 PM
where does it say this?

edit: Oops ! Sorry didn`t see it was Ian Boys who posted /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.

Message Edited on 08/19/0312:57PM by SeaFireLIV

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 01:50 PM
S!


Thanks Oleg for acknowledging the problem and fixing it !


Thanks Buzz, Skychimp, HarryVoyager and all the others who sent info to Oleg-Great Job !



_________

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 02:03 PM
Excellent news and many thanks for giving us the update. We love to hear whats going on in the inside track. Thanks!

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"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." - Winston Churchill

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 02:16 PM
Thank you Ian!!!
And what of the "one shot engine kill" problem? Can we expect any releif from that? I there is ever an American campaign issued, that one problem will be a nagging concern.
Harry Voyager has done quite alot of documenting the dynamics of the problem, I'm sure he would be willing to re-post if necessary-
Thanks for all you have done Ian-
Chris

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/WAR-08.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 02:29 PM
chris455 wrote:
- Thank you Ian!!!
- And what of the "one shot engine kill" problem? Can
- we expect any releif from that? I there is ever an
- American campaign issued, that one problem will be a
- nagging concern.
- Harry Voyager has done quite alot of documenting the
- dynamics of the problem, I'm sure he would be
- willing to re-post if necessary-
- Thanks for all you have done Ian-
- Chris
-
I don`t understand this `one-shot ` engine kill debate. Surely, any engine in the world (today even) could be taken out by a one shot chance. The possibility must be there. You can`t be asking for a plane that`s GUARANTEED NOT to go down with one possible bullet in the engine? Or am I not understanding this right?



"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 02:31 PM
SeaFireLIV,


I don't think the complaint is the damage model as a whole - they are refering to how easy it is to kill the engine

S!
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XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 02:42 PM
Wow, end of war /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

What would be next?

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 03:24 PM
Very nice. Now if he would just take some of the edge off of that FW. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



Message Edited on 08/19/0302:24PM by AFJ_HUGHJ

ZG77_Nagual
08-19-2003, 03:25 PM
Thank Ian - and Hi Hughj! been awhile! Still flying the p47 eh?

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 03:27 PM
Thanks for the update Ian, and well done everyone involved!

To be able to fare well,
To avoid the frustration of misfortune,
That, in this world, is happiness.
-Euripides' Electra

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 03:27 PM
wait what does 'improved' mean? Noone has said it will go faster...just be improved...if the figures show to oleg that it needs to go slower..you might not like the improved /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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ZG77_Nagual
08-19-2003, 03:31 PM
Well, I've heard the roll rate will be 'quieter' and 'less shiny' also it will have a more pleasant odor.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 03:38 PM
Thanks to Skychimp, Buzzsaw and Jaeger for this. A definite something to look forward to, and all achieved in a good-mannered way.

Nice going, guys http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Regards,

RocketDog.

(who wonders why on Earth it was so off in the first place)

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 03:38 PM
--
- I don`t understand this `one-shot ` engine kill
- debate. Surely, any engine in the world (today even)
- could be taken out by a one shot chance. The
- possibility must be there. You can`t be asking for a
- plane that`s GUARANTEED NOT to go down with one
- possible bullet in the engine? Or am I not
- understanding this right?
-
A bullet through the radiator or cooling lines will kill a liquid cooled engine. But the radial engines were known to run even with a few cylinders blown off.

I think I have that right, it's early for me.
-
-

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 03:49 PM
>>>But the radial engines were known to run even with a few cylinders blown off.<<<

But 1 round through the crankcase will kill it.

Xeke

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 04:09 PM
AFAIK, there was a case when a La-5 flew with 7 cylinders blown off. despite this the pilot managed to down the whole Schwarm of FW190, using half the ammo of his right ShVAK(the left was jammed by a defective round)

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king."

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 04:10 PM
Thanks Ian and oleg, great news


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Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 04:15 PM
Good to hear, thanks for the update.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 04:28 PM
Excellent news! Many thanks!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 05:36 PM
"final version of the patch" release date is set for February of 2004 so dont get too excited.

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/p47-22.jpg 47|FC=

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 05:39 PM
rubbish

_____________
Ian Boys
=38=Tatarenko
Kapitan - 38. OIAE

The_Blue_Devil
08-19-2003, 06:04 PM
My faith in the Human Species is Restored. Thanks to Buzz,Skychimp, and good ole Machine. ~S~

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</center>
<center>[b]"Pilots who liked to dogifght could do it their own way. I avoided it. I always attacked at full speed and I evaded a bounce in the same manner. When you were hit from above and behind, and your attacker held his fire until he was really close, you knew you were in with someone who had a great deal of experience.-Erich Hartmann"[b]</center>


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<center> http://www.361stvfg.com </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 06:25 PM
Ianboys? AFAIK, Oleg wanted to change the P-47 roll rate right after the release of FB. There was this live chat session where i asked him about it. He said that he wants to change the roll rate, but only a little. Does the current patch already include this original "little"? I think the lack of roll rate at high speeds has already been a problem but he wanted to change it anyway, so now i wonder if the community managed to change is mind and now he makes some major changes to the roll rate. I'd just like to know /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .

<hr>
<table border="0" width="100%"><tr><td width="50%"><font size=2><font size="-1"> and did those feet in ancient times
trod america's pastures of green?
and did that <font color="#FF0000">anthropocentric</font> god <font color="#FF0000">wane</font>
with their thoughts and beliefs all unseen?
I don't think so,
he's up there with the others lying low,
<font color="#FF0000">vying</font> with those who you've traded
your life to bless your soul,
and have they told you how to think,</font></font></td><td width="50%"><font size=2><font size="-1">
cleansed your mind of <font color="#FF0000">sepsis</font> and autonomy?
or have you escaped scrutiny,
and <font color="#FF0000">regaled</font> yourself with <font color="#FF0000">depravity</font>?
now we all see, "religion is just synthetic
<font color="#FF0000">frippery</font>, unnecessary in our expanding
global culture efficiency"
and don't you fear this impasse
we have built to our future?
ever so near,
and oh so <font color="#FF0000">austere</font> </font></font></td></tr></table>

http://thebrpage.tierranet.com/pix/Greg/graffin2_sm.jpg

"God Song" by Bad Religion

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 07:02 PM
Congrats to the Jug-jocks.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 07:12 PM
To a FB noob but avid amature historian like me, 1.1b meant I would fly Fw190s, if 1.1Final means I will fly P-47s then... Horraay!!

I really like p-47s as a WWII fighter, just as I do the Fw190

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 07:27 PM
Sounds great, the more realistic the aircrafts gets the better... On the engine thing.. What happens when a cylinder is blown off.. If I'm not mistaking gasoline starts pouring from the damaged cylinder and you risk an actual enginefire..

rgds

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 08:25 PM
Seafire,
As one who CLEARLY is unsympathetic to the P-47 community, I am not surprised at the nature of your "rejoinder".
No, we are clearly not asking for an invulnerable plane. We are asking for the P-47 Thunderbolt. An aircraft venerated for it's ability to absorb and shrug off battle damage that would destroy nearly all other WWII fighters.

If you have a favorite aircraft, my advice to you is to champion it, as we do our favorites. If your passion is to be a continual fly-in-the-ointment, may I invite you to join some other forum.

S!
Chris



SeaFireLIV wrote:
- chris455 wrote:
-- Thank you Ian!!!
-- And what of the "one shot engine kill" problem? Can
-- we expect any releif from that? I there is ever an
-- American campaign issued, that one problem will be a
-- nagging concern.
-- Harry Voyager has done quite alot of documenting the
-- dynamics of the problem, I'm sure he would be
-- willing to re-post if necessary-
-- Thanks for all you have done Ian-
-- Chris
--
- I don`t understand this `one-shot ` engine kill
- debate. Surely, any engine in the world (today even)
- could be taken out by a one shot chance. The
- possibility must be there. You can`t be asking for a
- plane that`s GUARANTEED NOT to go down with one
- possible bullet in the engine? Or am I not
- understanding this right?
-
-
-
-
-
- "Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good,
- rather than a Possible Evil."
-
- SeaFireLIV.



http://members.cox.net/miataman1/WAR-08.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 08:30 PM
Excellent discussions lead to this. Oleg, this is a great step in the right direction and thank you for paying attention to us.

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XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 08:44 PM
RedDeth wrote:
- "final version of the patch" release date is set for
- February of 2004 so dont get too excited.

Well, at least they'll have time to get it right! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif



Cheers,

<CENTER>http://home1.gte.net/vze23gyt/files/p51_jaws.jpg</CENTER><CENTER><font size="+1"><div style="width:500;color:#FF2211;fontsize:11pt;filter:shado w Blur[color=red,strength=2)">73h /\/\u$7@/\/6 |*\/\//\/-/_ j00</div></center></font><FONT color="#59626B">[b]

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 10:32 PM
chris455, you are correct. I am a big anti-whiner, cos I remember and appreciate crappy zx81 and Amiga type flight-sims that had nothing to them, but we still love. Perhaps there`s a feeling here that once again whining continuously gets results. The Luft whiners got what they want and now the P-47 guys. It seems to me whine enough and you`ll get anything whether or not it`s historical.

I`m not saying you guys are wrong, mebbe the roll rate was crappy and needed upgrading, mebbe the FW and BFs weren`t good enough. It`s just how it looks to me.

I simply thought it was amazing and further reaching to now want an engine that cannot be damaged by a single bullet, but maybe I got the wrong idea.

Thing with us Brits is we tend not to go on as long as our plane does the job,Spitfire or Hurricane, and the complaints about Hurris have only been because peeps got used to the Anti-Grav Hurri in the unpatched FB.

But who knows mebbe I`ll take a leaf out of the whiners book and badger Olegg till the Spitfire and Hurri work wonders!

I stand ready and proud for the flaming. (gulp!)

"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.

Message Edited on 08/19/0309:36PM by SeaFireLIV

The_Blue_Devil
08-19-2003, 10:41 PM
Mebbe you're right, but then Mebbe is written as Maybe .. j/k

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</center>
<center>[b]"Pilots who liked to dogifght could do it their own way. I avoided it. I always attacked at full speed and I evaded a bounce in the same manner. When you were hit from above and behind, and your attacker held his fire until he was really close, you knew you were in with someone who had a great deal of experience.-Erich Hartmann"[b]</center>


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<center> http://www.361stvfg.com </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 10:44 PM
Outstanding!

Also please don't forget the P-39 and P-40. They both suffer from huge roll rate discrepancies that need to be addressed as well. Those discrepancies seriously undermine the authenticity of these planes in FB.

-Bill

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 11:18 PM
Good news. It was a long crusade, starting before FB was even released.

Regards,

SkyChimp

http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/SkyChimp2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 11:25 PM
Salute Ian

Thanks to Oleg for his consideration.


Cheers RAF74 Buzzsaw

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 11:26 PM
bs reddeth wheres it say the final patch will be next feb.


http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif

Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 01:24 AM
Well Seafire,
I hope I didn't slam the door on you too hard.
I'm an unabashed admirer of you British, you know.
I guess that I pay more attention to design flaws in planes
I fly alot, and neglect some of the others. I suppose this is normal?
I don't really know if the Hurri is accurate now or not, but if it isn't, or if the Spit ends up being borked when it is released, you ought to take a cue from the Wurgerwhiners and the Jug community and let Oleg know.
And I wish you luck if you do-
Just bear in mind:
I predict HOLY HELL if, when the Mustang is released, it isn't within 1% of it's historical performance.
God help us all then!

Cheerio and all that,
S!
Chris

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/WAR-08.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 03:33 AM
lol scaird a couple of ya. ok ok release date of final patch is in a few weeks. but it wont be available for download till february http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/p47-22.jpg 47|FC=

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 04:27 AM
Dont listen to RedDeath, he's a moron. He even spelled "scaird" wrong. what an idiot.

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 04:31 AM
-=

Message Edited on 08/20/0303:34AM by Dolemite-

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 04:35 AM
Dolemite- wrote:
-Dont listen to RedDeath, he's a moron. He even
- spelled "scaird" wrong. what an idiot.

Define moron.. Would it include someone that posted the same post twice? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



TAGERT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=forum
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=discussion

Message Edited on 08/19/0308:38PM by tagert

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 04:39 AM
....I dont know what your talking about, I never posted any messages twice in a row.

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 04:52 AM
Dolemite- wrote:
- ....I dont know what your talking about, I never
- posted any messages twice in a row.

LOL! Nice try.. but NO SALE! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


TAGERT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=forum
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=discussion

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 05:14 AM
Thanks for the update Ian.


SeaFireLIV wrote:
- chris455, you are correct. I am a big anti-whiner,
- cos I remember and appreciate crappy zx81 and Amiga
- type flight-sims that had nothing to them, but we
- still love. Perhaps there`s a feeling here that once
- again whining continuously gets results. The Luft
- whiners got what they want and now the P-47 guys. It
- seems to me whine enough and you`ll get anything
- whether or not it`s historical.
-
- I`m not saying you guys are wrong, mebbe the roll
- rate was crappy and needed upgrading, mebbe the FW
- and BFs weren`t good enough. It`s just how it looks
- to me.
-
- I simply thought it was amazing and further reaching
- to now want an engine that cannot be damaged by a
- single bullet, but maybe I got the wrong idea.
-
- Thing with us Brits is we tend not to go on as long
- as our plane does the job,Spitfire or Hurricane, and
- the complaints about Hurris have only been because
- peeps got used to the Anti-Grav Hurri in the
- unpatched FB.
-
- But who knows mebbe I`ll take a leaf out of the
- whiners book and badger Olegg till the Spitfire and
- Hurri work wonders!
-
- I stand ready and proud for the flaming. (gulp!)


No flames here....but what makes you think that whining gets anthing done? Do you think that Oleg would respond to whining just to shut people up? I dont. Oleg admitted himself in the beginning after being shown facts about the p-47s roll rate as modeled, that it was incorrect. Some of the stuff you see here is whining sure...but when presented with accurate info..not stuff that can be placed in the realm of personal opinion or preference, but accurate, well researched info, Oleg responds in a positive way...more so than any other sim developer I have seen. The Luftflyers didnt get thier cockpit changed but the FM issues were addressed and they were addressed because the point was proven. Same with the Jug's roll rate. From all accounts I have read the Jug was indeed a formidible fighter. Not a T&B fighter, but a fighter and a good performing one at that.

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XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 05:15 AM
By the way Dolemite, CLASSIC NAME!

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 05:30 AM
hi dolemite i know how to spell. sometimes i use ebonics for fun . dont make me give out my moron of the day award twice in one day.... im making another one right now so dont push me

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XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 05:41 AM
Hmmmmmmmmm ebonics for fun........ dont get me started.....

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

<CENTER><FONT COLOR="ORANGE">vflyer@comcast.net<FONT COLOR>
<Center><div style="width:200;color:red;font-size:18pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=red,strength=8)">99th Pursuit Squadron

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 05:48 AM
I see the balance of power shifting...I will be forced too fly a vacuum cleaner just to keep up DOOh! .nnnnooooo! But this is good.better to have all aircraft modeled as close as possible than fly packman well done "S"

<img src="http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/D13-Hamm109 copy.jpg"

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 06:35 AM
oops ....the 99th...was that the tuskegee airmen....what i meant to say was....um...cough.... i meant aeronautics i think yea... thats the ticket.... or was i thinking about eboli from another forum....humm....quack!

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/p47-22.jpg 47|FC=

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 06:59 AM
Good show Skychimp, Buzzsaw, Jaeger, Machine and definitely Oleg & Co. Thanks for listening to our discussions.





"We will welcome them with bullets and shoes."

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 09:39 AM
Good news!

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 10:42 AM
That's a good new.
Thanx everybody for your work!
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 11:12 AM
chris455 & Bearcat99...

I am impressed by your mature responses. I guess you guys deserve your P-47`s roll-rate improvements after all. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

S!




"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 12:06 PM
Hiya Nagual! No, I haven't been flying the 47 that much. I will soon though.

I haven't really been flying any one plane, it depends on where and what are fighting. I fly about 6 different planes. One of them has been the 47 but only because it's pretty.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-21-2003, 05:16 AM
Well, thank you Seafire! And I hope your favorite plane is "all that" as well!
S!
Chris


http://members.cox.net/miataman1/WAR-08.jpg