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View Full Version : A new tactic!



Tranie117
10-27-2008, 05:30 PM
I've never heard of this being done before but no doubt you've all done it millions of times and are far better at it than me. But here goes, for all you noobs like me ;p

I've been thinking allot about my opening move in a dogfight. When I'm flying the P-38 it's basically climb cos I'm always attack running. But when I fly the P-51 D I'm unsure as what to do. I tried trying to get some shots of head on but this take ALLOT of skill to do without being shot your self, I tried turning but that only works against some opponants. Climbing seemed a fairly sound option, but I was abit sick of that from the P-38 attack running. I was looking for a more "Dogfighty" aproach.

I was flying a 4 on 4. 4 P-51 D's v 4 Bf-109's. no advantage, starting altitude 1,000 feet.

What I did was dive straight away, max power steep dive and then pull up just before the floor. with throttle at max, trim down abit and scream along the floor at like 500ish kmph. I can the easily see (thanks to my buble dome cockpit thing!) the Bf-109's flying in formation above me, I wait till they are just ahead of me and then pull up and do a half loop. The high speed and high amount of power from the engine makes this easy to do without risk of stalling. If timed right you end up right behind a 109 at a similar speed, preferably the guy at the back. This is an easy kill. A more experienced player than me will probably nail this guy straight away. You should then have all the remaining 109's Directly ahead of you, Perfect! Happy hunting.

Anyway I'd realy recomend you try this, it's a realy good, fun tactic to use, especially if you are a noob like me! Seriously give it ago. I recomend you do it on Crimear. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WTE_Galway
10-27-2008, 05:55 PM
Well online they would see you coming a mile away http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

But offline against the dumb old AI its actually a good tactic. Try this variation ... instead of pulling up behind him use your extra speed to come up directly underneath and fire into the belly. This works especially well against bombers.

Tranie117
10-27-2008, 06:05 PM
Hmmmmmmmmm... a fasinating sugesion, I shall try that tommorow when I get home. He-111's prehapse. Can't say much about playing online as I'm not aloud, I'd get owned anyway.

Tranie117
10-27-2008, 07:05 PM
Also I'm not actually convinced that real Piolets could see you coming, it's very unexpected as the rest of the formation are flying at a similar height dead ahead. And you'd be right underneeth their nose, I think by the time you close enough they could see you, you'd be blocked by their nose, unless they did a role for no good reason!

Also if you do try this tactic I recomend taking a wingman with you.

DuckyFluff
10-27-2008, 07:44 PM
Excellent....... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif


Fresh meat.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

ImMoreBetter
10-27-2008, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by Tranie117:
Also I'm not actually convinced that real Piolets could see you coming, it's very unexpected as the rest of the formation are flying at a similar height dead ahead. And you'd be right underneeth their nose, I think by the time you close enough they could see you, you'd be blocked by their nose, unless they did a role for no good reason!

Also if you do try this tactic I recomend taking a wingman with you.

As one who has tried this tactic, and has had it used against me.

It doesn't work against real players.

xTHRUDx
10-27-2008, 08:25 PM
It doesn't work against real players.

correct.

Trainee, you need to be flying against real pilots. it's the only way to improve your skill. ditch the AI stuff and never look back.

WTE_Galway
10-27-2008, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by ImMoreBetter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tranie117:
Also I'm not actually convinced that real Piolets could see you coming, it's very unexpected as the rest of the formation are flying at a similar height dead ahead. And you'd be right underneeth their nose, I think by the time you close enough they could see you, you'd be blocked by their nose, unless they did a role for no good reason!

Also if you do try this tactic I recomend taking a wingman with you.

As one who has tried this tactic, and has had it used against me.

It doesn't work against real players. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Well ... I would qualify that.

There used to be about 5 years back a full real server on HL that was also nighttime and a thunderstorm.

It was somewhat insane and only was around for a few months.

The tactic would have worked there.

It does work well against AI you can in fact hit them from below, overshoot and then wingover back down in an Immelman to get them from above in a second pass. Great fun in a fw190a8 against big American bombers.

jayhall0315
10-28-2008, 02:20 AM
Tranie - No offense but this would never work against decent pilots on Hyperlobby. The AI is fun and all in your first few weeks but it is not even close to many human beginners with even a few weeks on the Lobby.

A good pilot would just hammerhead, pick up speed, wait till you approached your zenith and then unload. You need to fly against real humans to get better.

Jay

Tranie117
10-28-2008, 04:21 AM
As much as I would LOVE to fly against real people I'm not aloud as Dad won't let me! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
Why wouldn't this work against real opponants? how can they see beneeth them?

general_kalle
10-28-2008, 04:36 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

your dad wont let you?
ask him why? id he doesnt have any proper arguments tell him following:

Improves your language
its also some sort of socialising
its fun
educative - ive learnt ALOT about aircrafts and menuvers!!!
fun
fun
and not the least bit harmful.

well if a online server is on full real not all players will see that but some will

if its not full real - external view, padlock etc.
everybody will see you.

Erkki_M
10-28-2008, 06:40 AM
Originally posted by general_kalle:
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

your dad wont let you?
ask him why? id he doesnt have any proper arguments tell him following:

Improves your language
its also some sort of socialising
its fun
educative - ive learnt ALOT about aircrafts and menuvers!!!
fun
fun
and not the least bit harmful.

well if a online server is on full real not all players will see that but some will

if its not full real - external view, padlock etc.
everybody will see you.

Also, you never know when you are going to line-up directly head-on with an enemy. Even as you sometimes do, in many scenarios he will be too much above you and in others, other manouvers are more effective. A human pilot that knows anything on aerial combat(you may find those on arcade servers as well) will most likely see you and they(should be knowing) know to not fly straight for more than 10 sec at a time. Diving might hide you, but it will make you bleed too much energy - once you get behind him(if you ever get), even if he was in a similar or slightly slower plane, at cruising speed, he will get away from you. If he spots you before you start diving, you are good as dead.

jayhall0315
10-28-2008, 01:58 PM
Tranie - Any decent human opponent will spot you on an open cockpit server due to the warning indicator arrows that appear to the sides of the screen. On closed cockpit or full real settings, all good pilots are constantly scanning the skies and you may be able to sneak up on another noobie with your tactic but a veteran would quickly spot your approach. As you climbed up, you would also give up all your kinetic energy and be in a low energy state, thus allowing any veteran to pull moves on you in a relatively defenseless state.

You need to come on to Hyperlobby if you want a real education in flying. Flying against the AI in almost no way compares to real human opponents.

Jay

Xiolablu3
10-28-2008, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by Tranie117:
Hmmmmmmmmm... a fasinating sugesion, I shall try that tommorow when I get home. He-111's prehapse. Can't say much about playing online as I'm not aloud, I'd get owned anyway.

Mate, its just practice.

Everyone gets owned at first but then improves.

You learn from each engagement http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Divine-Wind
10-28-2008, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by general_kalle:
Improves your language
I lol'd IRL

Anyways, I say if it works against the AI, fantastic. It might not work 99% of the time against a human opponent, but if you're not flying online that's kind of irrelevant, right? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

And while online play is VERY fun (Most times), offline play is just as fun, at least for me. Then again I actually like crawling into the FMB and tooling around with it, so I may just be weird like that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif It's also true that the AI doesn't exactly teach you the 'correct' way to fly (That's kind of relative though), but in my experience online and offline are two completely different beasts. The AI has a bit of an advantage in that it flies perfectly trimmed and never blacks out, even while pulling consecutive loops in a space shuttle, where as human opponents have the same limitations you do, although they're worlds ahead of the AI when it comes to the I part. Also the AI never loses its temper.

And now I'm done talking in a confused matter.

TinyTim
10-28-2008, 02:55 PM
AFAIK a very similar tactic was used by Iraqi MiG-21s to score some Iranian F-14s. They flew very close to the ground to disguise into a ground clutter and pulled up when directly below the Tomcats. Fired a couple of atolls/aphids during vertical climb and then ran like hell.

Sirrith
10-29-2008, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by Tranie117:
What I did was dive straight away, max power steep dive and then pull up just before the floor. with throttle at max, trim down abit and scream along the floor at like 500ish kmph. I can the easily see (thanks to my buble dome cockpit thing!) the Bf-109's flying in formation above me, I wait till they are just ahead of me and then pull up and do a half loop. The high speed and high amount of power from the engine makes this easy to do without risk of stalling. If timed right you end up right behind a 109 at a similar speed, preferably the guy at the back. This is an easy kill. A more experienced player than me will probably nail this guy straight away. You should then have all the remaining 109's Directly ahead of you, Perfect! Happy hunting.


Seems to me that if you tried this against real players, you'd either spend too much time flying low looking for them and lose your energy, or if you began your dive when you spot the enemy plane in the distance, then they'd probably see you at the same time if they have decent SA.

Dustysquareback
10-29-2008, 11:37 AM
Quick tip Trainie:

If you are trying to get to know the P-51 - start her WAY higher than that. 3000 meters minimum alt. Your performance suffers greatly on the deck in that planes.

These guys are right, flying against live opponents is way more fun and rewarding, but there is plenty to learn offline, if that's all you can do for now.

G'luck!

general_kalle
10-29-2008, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by Divine-Wind:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by general_kalle:
Improves your language
I lol'd IRL
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well i've learned alot english through online play (not just il2)
i see why you laugh because all the omg, rofl, lol, noobz etc. is not really english language but you also pick up alot of serius stuff..you not you fly on the wrong servers or with the wrong people.

whatever i need arguments.

Divine-Wind
10-29-2008, 02:16 PM
True. I wasn't really thinking of all the acronyms, more of the... Err, more serious words. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

crucislancer
10-29-2008, 02:26 PM
Trainie, check out In Pursuit (http://web.comhem.se/%7Eu85627360/).

There's quite a bit of helpful info there. While the book is geared towards online play, it's still a great way to understand air combat manuevers. I've used a lot of the advice in this book, and I know that others have used it on me.

It's said that practice makes perfect, and this sim is no exception. I am by no means an ace, but constant practice has helped give me a fighting chance online and take care of the AI offline without too many problems.

Divine-Wind
10-29-2008, 03:40 PM
That link appears to be out of order, Crucis. Or at least I'm not getting any joy out of it.

Edit: Wait lol, it works all of a sudden. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif