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View Full Version : Nakajima B5N2 Kate armament error



KeenFox
11-01-2004, 08:25 AM
The B5N2 carried two 7.7 mm machin-guns in upper engine cowling, only the B5N1 was unarmed(except for reargun). The B5N2 could allso carried 3x250kg, the bomb layout ingame is based on the B5N1(had a smaller engine). I have not found much online about this, as most sites treath both plane types as one and mix their stats.

KeenFox
11-01-2004, 08:25 AM
The B5N2 carried two 7.7 mm machin-guns in upper engine cowling, only the B5N1 was unarmed(except for reargun). The B5N2 could allso carried 3x250kg, the bomb layout ingame is based on the B5N1(had a smaller engine). I have not found much online about this, as most sites treath both plane types as one and mix their stats.

Sigma1
11-01-2004, 08:29 AM
You sure.. everything i've read states the kate only had rear 7.7mm guns. The site isnt even a normal reticle but one specifically designed to accurately determine torpedo release angle.

kozhe
11-01-2004, 08:54 AM
Not sure about bomb load, but no forward guns for the Kate, that´s for sure http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Yep, old american sources said that.

Wseivelod
11-01-2004, 09:13 AM
I have actually seen British and American sources list the B5N2 with two 7.7 mm machine guns in the nose.

Also, the cockpit photoes we have seen may have been from the B5N1. Maybe, just maybe we should referrence 1942 :PAW's Kate, and see what we can learn from that cockpit, to see just how much improvising was needed to make it.

Mr_Nakajima
11-01-2004, 10:28 AM
Rene Francillon's definitive 'Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War' only lists 1x7.7mm Type 92 machine gun for both the B5N1 and B5N2. Total bomb load was up to 800 kg (1,764 lbs) of bombs or one torpedo.

reisen52
11-01-2004, 10:41 AM
http://www.avhistory.org/bear257Images/b5n_cockpit.jpg

No Cowl Guns

Zeke

KeenFox
11-01-2004, 12:24 PM
Okey, thats the B5N1.. if I knew how to insert pictures I could post to. I have a book from 1969 that I trusth far more then the so called "internet". Allso, British imperial war museum in london can back up my claim http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Stiglr
11-01-2004, 12:32 PM
B5Ns did NOT have forward armament.

In fact, where a reflector or tube sight would be.... is the torpedo sight.

I just scoured my Maru Mechanic for the B5N and B6N torp bombers, and neither have any forward guns, in the cowl or the wings. And I'd trust Maru Mechanic for any Japanese plane more than any other source I've seen.

You must be confusing Kate with a D3A Val.

KeenFox
11-01-2004, 12:54 PM
Thats a very bold statment Stiglr.
Whats the "Maru Mechanic"? When and who publiched it?
I am telling you, the B5N1 and B5N2 armaments have been confused in most moderns sources.

Snow_Wolf_
11-01-2004, 01:03 PM
you sure you didn't mistake it for the D3A Val never heard of a kate with forward guns beside that book...........
"(B5N1) One 7.7 mm machine-gun, manually-aimed, in rear cockpit
Underwing racks for two 250 kg bombs or six 60 kg bombs
(B5N2) Twin 7.7 mm machine-guns, manually-aimed, in rear cockpit
plus (?) two 7.7 mm machine-guns, fixed, above forward fuselage (?)
(These two forward-firing guns are given in Bill Gunston's 'Combat Aircraft of World War Two'
but they are not referred to in other sources)
Fuselage rack for one 800 kg (18-inch) torpedo or three 250 kg bombs "

KeenFox
11-01-2004, 01:24 PM
Snow_Wolf_
Other sources:
Journal of the American Aviation
Bombers, Patrol and Transport Aircraft 1939-45 by Kenneth Munson.

Now the book I am refering(Bombers 1939-45)etc to has all stats identical to the once ingame. Now, most other sources gives you the B5N1 stats for both B5N1 and B5N2.. compare the sources for B5N2 you have with the ingame one.. if yours have worse stats, then its the B5N1 stats.

Not this matters.. since public oppinion seem to determin planestats in this game..

Fillmore
11-01-2004, 01:36 PM
"Not this matters.. since public oppinion seem to determin planestats in this game.."

No this is not true at all. But if you post in a public forum, public opinion is what you will get.

If you have solid documentation that contradicts what we have ingame send a bug report to Oleg with all of the documentation you have. Be sure you will need documentation superior to what was produced by whoever modelled it.

KeenFox
11-01-2004, 02:08 PM
Thanks Fillmore
I`ll send it in and let him decide.

Stiglr
11-01-2004, 03:11 PM
Keen, Maru Mechanic is a Japanese language series of guides to various airplanes, used mostly by scale modelers. It examines just about every system in the plane, and offers excellent photo and blueprint-quality drawings on everything from the cockpit to the angle of operation and play of the stick in relation to the ailerons and elevator.

If you had ever seen one, you'd know what I mean by them being a VERY high quality reference.

They're mostly for Japanese planes, but they have some editions on German, US and a few modern jets as well.

Check ebay.

Sigma1
11-01-2004, 07:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
Keen, Maru Mechanic is a Japanese language series of guides to various airplanes, used mostly by scale modelers. It examines just about every system in the plane, and offers excellent photo and blueprint-quality drawings on everything from the cockpit to the angle of operation and play of the stick in relation to the ailerons and elevator.

If you had ever seen one, you'd know what I mean by them being a VERY high quality reference.

They're mostly for Japanese planes, but they have some editions on German, US and a few modern jets as well.

Check ebay. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You need to fax a copy to Oleg or whomever models the cockpits so we can maybe get a flyable B5N1/2.

necrobaron
11-01-2004, 08:25 PM
So where are these cowl guns? I've never seen any pics of a B5N2 that had any obvious guns present (apart from the flexible gun in the back). Regardless of what authors say(since there seems to be some debate about the matter), I'd say the best evidence would be actual pics that show the supposed guns in question.....

SkyChimp
11-01-2004, 08:46 PM
US examination of the B5N2 apparently revealed cowl guns. They are included in the TAIC manual:

http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/kate_1.jpg
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/kate_2.jpg

Stiglr
11-01-2004, 10:33 PM
Sigma wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You need to fax a copy to Oleg or whomever models the cockpits so we can maybe get a flyable B5N1/2. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Somebody else'll have to do that, Sigma.

I won't participate in the development of any torpedo bomber until they get serious and model torpedos properly.
================================
As for that source posted, I'll take a Japanese source over a US source any day. Even the B6N Tenzans didn't have forward weapons (although they did add a ventral belly gun to it).

I'm just thinking your source (possibly a period source) is plain wrong.

Ruy Horta
11-02-2004, 03:25 AM
New to me, will check my sources.

Have the Maru Mech and Bunrindo on the Kate.

Still Forward armament sounds flawed, regardless of the TAIC.

There should also be some data in the Monogram cockpit book, will check that one too.