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View Full Version : What you like and why; a thread for fans of innovation and progression.



dchalfont
03-20-2011, 03:18 AM
In reaction to both this site and other heroes sites ( more specifically; Celestial heavens ) I have to say that the heroes community are the most negative gaming community I have ever seen.

So against the tirade of agoraphobic OCD H3 purists I think this thread can find a place.

Regarding what you don't like about the game; No One Cares(TM). For every game I like, I could list 50 things I don't like in both graphics and gameplay, but unlike others I choose not to fixate on the negative. Don't like it; then don't buy it.

This is the place for as the threads namesake suggests, to tell us what you like and why.

Things I like:

I like that the Pit Lord is the top tier unit for Inferno. I feel that it is a much cooler unit than any iteration of the Devil and after it's physical appearance in H5...there was really no way to top it. It makes sense as a successor and it makes the game less black and white in terms of lore. Naturally this applies to the Seraph in H6 as well.

I like the Sanctuary faction. While many people will miss the others in the vanilla game, a new faction and feel certainly adds to the original appeal of the game.

Visuals; H6 surpassed my wildest dreams for how good it would look, even though I am a graphics wh0re which says a lot.
Gameplay changes I like:

Town conversion; big win here. No more morale loss or multiple heroes to maximize unit production. You can make 1 uber hero with ease because of this feature.

Area of control; no more 1 unit hero spamming from the enemy because they will have to take your town by force to get those mines permanently and will need a decent army. No 1 unit heroes = less backtracking and more battles http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Respec; because it lets me make mistakes and experiment with different skills without having to be penalized for the whole level.

Khanofallorcs
03-20-2011, 04:13 AM
Personally:

I like that the game is still 3d, like H5
I like that now I can finally choose my skills, because in H5 if you wanted a certain skill, you were unlikely to get it
Please don't hate me but I am glad they did away with the Silvan, for some reason, i disliked them
I am also glad that a weak hero can no longer flag mines, because it was the only thing the AI did
Town conversion is great, in the last game, the only factions that could use towns of different faction were inferno(sacrifice for experience) and necropolis(sending the troops back to base for conversion)
I also like that now we have Nagas, there was just so many refferences of them
I like the changes they did to the reputation system, and now that finally there will be a clear might/magic build

Thunion
03-20-2011, 07:34 AM
Regarding what you don't like about the game; No One Cares(TM). For every game I like, I could list 50 things I don't like in both graphics and gameplay, but unlike others I choose not to fixate on the negative. Don't like it; then don't buy it.
As i sayed before Critize before release when it possible to change bad things,Praise after realese when game is as it is and you cant change much.
And about yours "Don't like it; then don't buy it." We dont like:We remain silent:Nothing changes:We dont buy it:Nobody happy.
We dont like:We show what we dont likehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifevelopers change the game:We buy:Everyone happy.
I know thats off topic,but if you touched it..

And now more on topic:I really like Concept of sanctuary.
I like that System requiments wont gonna change much so i will be able to play the game.
I like Reputation system and in a whole how they changed Characters development+ i like that Mage/Warior choice is back.
I like that hadnt made Griffin family member to rule academy(But of course hope academy will be back in expansion,hopeffuly under rule of The Ancient Poweful Jinn,yes you guessed it right SOLMYR)
I like how they made Core-Elite-Champion instead of T1-...-T7,i hope lower level creatures will be always viable.

dchalfont
03-20-2011, 07:41 AM
@Thunion

I get what you mean about constructive criticism, but my point is that the heroes community is not constructive. Half the community likes a change, the other half hates it, there is no consensus, it's getting to the point where people are being irrational. Not everyone is going to like evry change, but fixating on the negatives is just crazy.

People are so opposed to change that they are crying for blood because the game is in 3d.....the god damn heroes 3 purists want a 2d game..............in 2011............

This is why the developers should follow their own initiative and ignore many of the complaints, or there would be no innovation.

O.T, and I hope this thread will stay on topic because like I said, positives only.....

I also like the 3 tier system. Late game made the weaker units lose significance, even if their design was cool. Instead of thinking about how 'weak' the tier one unit is, it will be fine because 40% of your lineup is of the same power ( the core units ) so it's not so bad.

Thunion
03-20-2011, 08:46 AM
This is why the developers should follow their own initiative and ignore many of the complaints, or there would be no innovation.
It depends no how innovation done..I like How they work after all(now thats is topic realitated :P)
they just come back to H3 and H5 and change them,they upgrade the existing things,few new things but the whole game isint totaly changed,remember Heroes 4 They totaly redone the game and it was screwed.

GamerGeek87
03-20-2011, 09:02 AM
I must say I like all the gamplay changes being made. Ofcource I wont know for sure on some things, like AoC sounds awsome but little info has been provided. The only thing I am unhappy about is some(very few) of the design choices of the creature, but one cant expect to like eveything. So far it looks to me to be the best in the series.

Infiltrator-SF
03-20-2011, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by dchalfont:
Regarding what you don't like about the game; No One Cares(TM). For every game I like, I could list 50 things I don't like in both graphics and gameplay, but unlike others I choose not to fixate on the negative. Don't like it; then don't buy it.

No one cares? Since when? For every game I like, there may be 50 things I don't like, but since I like the game that means those 50 things didn't really affect my opinion.

There are other games that I hate just because of one, two or three things.

Beta tests exist to collect CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, not praise. You know what a developer can do with "OMG THIS GAEM ROXX GJ!1" or "FU THIS BLOWS NO MONEY FROM ME!@#"? That's right.

And when it comes to heroes fans, there's PLENTY of constructive criticism to be found just about anywhere. And that's a great way for BH to fix something they might have missed, instead of flocking here and posting what we like when we've seen very little let alone played the game.

WaterPoloLaw
03-20-2011, 05:15 PM
I am going to go with the original poster on this one. I do think there tends to be a lot of negative, non-constructive critisism with respect to this game.

Personally, I have not been this excited about a game for over half a decade. I am VERY excited about the art and apparent storyline. I am excited that the devs have decided to think aoutside the box on this one. I am excited that they have made some drastic changes to teh gameplay mechanics, while still staying true to the genre.

My only concern thus far would be town portals. Yes, I like the idea of a town portal that you can build, but the use has to be severely limited in some way so it is not a free and instant fix to a poorly implemented strategy. If you leave one of your towns wide open, and your hero is at the other side of the map, then you deserve to lose that town when it is attacked.

I am thinking if they are going to implement the town portal, then they (a) need to make it VEY expensive to build and (b) perhaps cost a certain amount of gold and gems per use. That way, it is not just a free ticket to correct egregious errors.

wodahsa
03-20-2011, 06:29 PM
As some said before, I am also happy about the changes mentioned. I think everything done so far was well thought out and should influence gameplay in a very good way.

I like those little tweaks that improve on dynamic of gameplay like:
- no caravans - you buy units in town - great change in my opinion
- less randomness (development of the hero, morale and luck change) - the best change so far in my opinion
- area of control - hopefully there will be no option to capture the opponent mine for a longer time than one turn (in theory it is still possible to move your one unit hero to opponent mine and live him in the mine - hopefully it will not be possible)

@WaterPoloLaw
I like that we are back to Heroes 3 with Town Portal spell - it makes gameplay much more enjoyable. I know it makes game simpler BUT if well balanced it will improve on gameplay greatly. I agree that the cost of that Town Portal building should be very high to balance things out - then it add even more strategic choices to the game, i.e. you are far from your town, enemy is close - you can sacrifice town or you can risk buying expensive town portal building and try to defend with less army because of that - I think it would really add some exciting strategic options to the gamehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Regards to all

GamerGeek87
03-20-2011, 06:42 PM
- area of control - hopefully there will be no option to capture the opponent mine for a longer time than one turn (in theory it is still possible to move your one unit hero to opponent mine and live him in the mine - hopefully it will not be possible) As I understand it if an enemy captures my mine he/she will be in possession of it until he leaves the immidiate area. Making it so that you dont have to send out a unit to get it back but the enemy can still cripple your economy.

GoranXII
03-20-2011, 09:16 PM
* The way you no longer need pick-up heroes for external dwellings.
* The fact that you no longer miss out on the skill you want for any of the dozen you don't want.
* The new creature tier system, you're no longer stuck with a certain army make up even if you can afford every creature.
* The fact that your hero can get bonuses if he's within a certain distance of his town.

My real issue is that IMO they're changing too much too suddenly, they should be leaving some of these changes until H7

thepyro_13
03-21-2011, 01:24 AM
Originally posted by GoranXII:
--Snip--

My real issue is that IMO they're changing too much too suddenly, they should be leaving some of these changes until H7

Why? If these things need changing, and the devs can think of a better mechanic than the current one, then why should they not change them?

You want them to release a game that is inferior, just to make the transition easier for people who got stuck in the past?

You can easily ruin a game by keeping a bad feature just because the games predecessors had it too.

Its better to be Team Fortress 2 than Team Fortress Classic +1.

GoranXII
03-21-2011, 05:40 AM
Originally posted by thepyro_13:
Why? If these things need changing, and the devs can think of a better mechanic than the current one, then why should they not change them? 'Better' is generally a point-of view rather than a hard fact.


You want them to release a game that is inferior, just to make the transition easier for people who got stuck in the past? 'Inferior', like 'better' is generally an opinion, not a fact.


You can easily ruin a game by keeping a bad feature just because the games predecessors had it too. Look, if this were a new game rather than a sequel I'd have very few issues to complain about, but since this is a sequel, then it should maintain at least some similarities to its predecessor.


Its better to be Team Fortress 2 than Team Fortress Classic +1. And it's better to be TFC +1 than Medal of Honor with a Team Fortress skin.

mcgslo
03-21-2011, 05:45 AM
All games in development are getting pounded with constructive "negative" opinions an i think that is good ... its really a question if we want the game to be made to our likeings (mostly sequels) or if devs build new game with new idea. And if Devs dont want any input they should annonce the game right before release and dont make forums 1 year prior to release http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

But ok well fine, in H6 i like:
-Territory/keeps/castles/control of structures
-graphics
-hotseat option
-all factions
-RPG element and building your own hero no randomness in that
-schools of magic
-convert castles
-reputation choice/ might/magic/good/evil options
-that diferent factions are tied for different schools of magic

...

Dreamwright
03-21-2011, 06:19 AM
While I agree that the community negativity can get overwhelming and annoying at times, I can't say I wasn't a part of it during H5's development (specifically, regarding the storyline), and rightly so I think.

I think Thunion is correct. You can praise all you want after the game is released, but until then it's entirely worthwhile to constructively criticise.

I'm not saying you shouldn't praise things too, on the contrary. But people have very high standards for Might and Magic after all. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Asterisk
03-21-2011, 06:21 AM
I like fixed camera, graphics and new RPG elements.

dchalfont
03-21-2011, 06:44 AM
I came here to write a change they made that I thought of and kind of re-realised how awesome it means in terms of changes to the gameplay, and between that thought and getting to my PC, it slipped from my mind.... >(

So in place of my lost revelation I will say BOSS FIGHTS!!!

Heroes needed something like that. It was kind of pathetic in the campaign when you would finally get to the end of a campaign and the uber battle would simply be of the same units you'd been fighting all map. That's not to say that the battles weren't epic, just that something surprising and different would have been nice.

8 bosses so far and only 2 potential ones known. I'm sure the remaining 6 will blow us away.

Just look at the footage of the mother namtura battle....damn. Epic mf win.

Thunion
03-21-2011, 10:11 AM
I will say BOSS FIGHTS!!!
Yeah forgot about them to.. they look really promising

Metamagician
03-21-2011, 01:30 PM
What I didn't like in King's Bounty/Armored Princess is when you set animation speed to normal you would often get very close zooms.

This should be eliminated completely or added as an extra option.

Thunion
03-22-2011, 08:58 AM
What I didn't like in King's Bounty/Armored Princess is when you set animation speed to normal you would often get very close zooms.
DIDINT like? IN kings Bounty/Armored Princess? or it just me or its kinda far away from topic?

GoranXII
03-22-2011, 01:01 PM
You sound surprise Thunion, you should know by now that KB/AP is the best game in the world according to Metamagician, and must be advertised as such at every possible occasion.

xelse
03-22-2011, 02:42 PM
Likes:

1. Darker story? It sounds more compelling at least. I'd like to be emotionally invested in the events that happen to truly enjoy the game. The story for H5 was okay, but It just didn't feel epic enough. What I mean by epic is a moment when you feel for the characters; Like when Tassadar is about to crash his carrier into the Overmind, or when Sephiroth kills Aeris, or when Luke finds out Vader is really his father.

2. 3D. Face it guys, this is necessary. The graphics of old games I loved always look amazing thinking back. But when I actually go back and play them? They look like crap, and I'm disgusted at how I ever enjoyed playing something so ugly. Think SC1 vs SC2. So far I gotta say H6 looks beautiful.

3. New skill advancement system. I don't know the details, but I didn't like the H5 one so anything new I'd like! But the only reason I didn't like the H5 one was that they implemented a Super Ability that was only accessible through a specific advancement path. That kinda took away the fun of building your own hero.


I think the OP had a good idea with this topic. The designers are being paid to design, and we should let them do their jobs. If they made a game while listening to every single suggestion the users made, I'm sure it would turn out to be garbage: A) It would cater to too many people and end up pleasing none. B) We wouldn't feel surprised by the new things that the designers came up with, because they would be using our own ideas. Where's the fun in discovery if we're like "cool they added in this exact plot element I detailed in a forum post couple weeks ago".

Of course if there are blatant problems with the game, we should point them out. Ultimately it is still up to the designers to design their own game.

GoranXII
03-22-2011, 09:27 PM
Think SC1 vs SC2. SC2 looks like a bunch of Tonka-toys IMO, I could easily stay with 2D.

A) It would cater to too many people and end up pleasing none. And if they listened to no-one it could easily turn out just as crappy.

B) We wouldn't feel surprised by the new things that the designers came up with, because they would be using our own ideas. Surprise is neither here nor there, to like an idea you have to agree with it.

thepyro_13
03-22-2011, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by xelse:
Likes:

2. 3D. Face it guys, this is necessary. The graphics of old games I loved always look amazing thinking back. But when I actually go back and play them? They look like crap, and I'm disgusted at how I ever enjoyed playing something so ugly. Think SC1 vs SC2. So far I gotta say H6 looks beautiful.


H6 does look very visually impressive. But I disagree that they had to move to 3D. 2D can look just as good, if not better, with high resolution textures and the large range of colour supported by modern video hardware.

Modern 2D games don't need to look pixel-y or use only 8/16/32 colours. That's just an artefact of the time they were created in.

A game like Heroes, and most Strategy games where the gameplay takes place on a 2D plane can work just as well with 2D or 3D, it's just a matter of art direction.

mcgslo
03-23-2011, 01:58 AM
I must correct my self... i cant judge what i like in this game since i did not play it yet... and so i only like what they promise and not what actually will be in the game.

Nalafein
03-23-2011, 07:29 AM
From what we know so far about the game..

I like the town conversion! This would be a fun element in the game indeed, can't wait for the times i will snatch my friends towns and convert them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

The new faction seems fun, i always welcome new factions to the games, though i miss all of the old factions, its 2011.. M&M 25. annerversity.
And for Vanilla (so far as we know) there will only be 5 factions. The singel thing i loved about H5 was that "dark"elfs was included to the game, im and old D&D Drow/darkelf fanatic and my favorit faction was Dungeon, since H2. enough rant back to topic.

As i was saying, its 2011. 5 factions is way less from what i actually expected from the game(even though we got a new faction) What about the new faction from h5? will them dwarf be included later on? what about Dungeon, Acedemy/Tower, Rampart/sylvan, Fortress from h3 even Conflux? (i do understand that including more would cause more time to balance everything, but still we live in 2011.. in current games we get alot, so we always expect more from new games... hopefully there would be more features to the game. i dont mind microtransactions.. but i fear for this new cashmilking system that is included to newer games.) i probably ranted again...

Cheers.

H5forem
03-23-2011, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by dchalfont:
I like that the Pit Lord is the top tier unit for Inferno. I feel that it is a much cooler unit than any iteration of the Devil and after it's physical appearance in H5...there was really no way to top it.
From what I know, it will be a Devil, but it will be a BOSS... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

xelse
03-23-2011, 01:58 PM
I love the concept art too. It's looking really good so far.

And the fact they came up with a brand new faction. A lot of people criticize it for being Japanese-y, but then what about Haven? No one seems to point out it's too English or French, or that genies are too Arabian, or that mummies are too Egyptian. Asian mythology has a lot to offer and I'm glad they're finally tapping into that.



SC2 looks like a bunch of Tonka-toys IMO, I could easily stay with 2D.

Despite what you think of the art style, I'm sure we can both agree that the new graphics engine (in H6 & SC2) can produce a much better representation of the game world. The important thing however is to make an aesthetically pleasing game world without having it become too obtrusive to the gaming experience.


And if they listened to no-one it could easily turn out just as crappy.

This is true, but I never said listen to nothing. It is a designer's job to filter what they perceive is good/bad.


Surprise is neither here nor there, to like an idea you have to agree with it.

We call that a pleasant surprise. Something you didn't expect but agree with upon seeing. It's part of being innovative.

Let's try stay relevant to the original topic with our replies k?

Phoenixzs84
03-23-2011, 04:50 PM
-I like the new level of creatures system with basic advanced and expert I think(I cant recall the exact names).But creatures not that apart in level and having distinct roles will help the game balance I guess.

If Heroes kingdoms is used I like that the defeated player gets exp http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Nalafein
03-24-2011, 06:23 PM
think it would be more balanced with the new creature levelish system. Its good, and it will give the feel of your own playstyle to your favorit factions. Hopefully there will be some cool heroes with some sweet specials, and hopefully not filled with garbage heroes which is less usefull. Hope that they dont remove the Uniqe feel of a hero in that way, even though the randomness is gone, i still hope that Heroes still have that certain speciality.

wdcryer
03-25-2011, 08:07 AM
My take on the constructive criticism vs. praise debate is that praise is a necessary counterbalance to criticism. People who dislike changes are often very vocal, and if other people like those features, it's important that their praise for the changes is also heard. Otherwise, you get a very one-sided picture of how the fan base feels about the game.

I really like that they are willing to make so many changes. I enjoyed Heroes V, but I think they played it very safe.

I'm very excited about the new factions because they seem to be making them more unique than they were in previous iterations. They may have more strategic differences in Heroes VI.

I also really like the steps they are taking to reduce the need for errand boy heroes. I still have a feeling they may be used to sit on mines, but unit delivery and defending far away towns will be less of an issue.

Nalafein
03-25-2011, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by wdcryer:
My take on the constructive criticism vs. praise debate is that praise is a necessary counterbalance to criticism. People who dislike changes are often very vocal, and if other people like those features, it's important that their praise for the changes is also heard. Otherwise, you get a very one-sided picture of how the fan base feels about the game.

I really like that they are willing to make so many changes. I enjoyed Heroes V, but I think they played it very safe.

I'm very excited about the new factions because they seem to be making them more unique than they were in previous iterations. They may have more strategic differences in Heroes VI.

I also really like the steps they are taking to reduce the need for errand boy heroes. I still have a feeling they may be used to sit on mines, but unit delivery and defending far away towns will be less of an issue.

I to like the change that less heroes is needed. i used to have around 3-5 heroes atleast in Heroes 3. and atleast 2-3 in Heroes 5.