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Airmail109
02-04-2008, 02:25 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20080201/sc_livesci...ncrediblescifiweapon (http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20080201/sc_livescience/navytestsincrediblescifiweapon)

Bewolf
02-04-2008, 06:55 AM
Already read about it. Not to be deployed before 2020, though. Still, it may very well render aircraft carriers obsolete and give artillery ships a renaissance.

JtD
02-04-2008, 09:20 AM
At these parameters, I am not impressed. Twice as fast as a conventional projectile, that's four times the kinetic energy. Hm. What about rapid fire? And will the solid slug do more than punch a small hole faster than a conventional gun?

p.s. Top 10 weapons of history: Number 1: Abrams tank. lol

Sillius_Sodus
02-04-2008, 10:35 AM
Top weapon in history? Gotta be raaaid's posts, they'll make your head explode! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Good hunting,
sillius_Sodus

huggy87
02-04-2008, 11:05 AM
We are also transitioning from traditional steam powered catapults to electro-magnetic.

I'm no nukular physicist, but aren't chemical propellants and fuels considered not very efficient?

BRASSTURTLE
02-04-2008, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by huggy87:
We are also transitioning from traditional steam powered catapults to electro-magnetic.

I'm no nukular physicist, but aren't chemical propellants and fuels considered not very efficient?

Electricity does not explode. Gunpowder does.

OldMan____
02-04-2008, 11:59 AM
Increased speed helps range. But kin energy is nto what matter to deal damage. THe impulse is.

Also simply makign a bullet go faster dont help after certain point. A projectile travelign faster than the speed of soudn on its own material ( in steel is about mach 7), when hittign a solid of same or similar amterial will face all impact strenght at infinitesimal thin layer that will propagate backwards after that, but slowe than the attempt to penetrate the target. Result is.. projectile completely fragmented.. and at MAXIUM a damage to the armor far smalle r than the size of projectile itself.

crucislancer
02-04-2008, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by JtD:
At these parameters, I am not impressed. Twice as fast as a conventional projectile, that's four times the kinetic energy. Hm. What about rapid fire? And will the solid slug do more than punch a small hole faster than a conventional gun?

I've been waiting for this for some time. Certainly, a sci fi weapon come to life.

I think rapid fire would be feasible, once they get the launcher ironed out. Remember, it's still got a ways to go before it's ready for deployment.

As far as solid slug doing more then just punching a small hole.......it really all depends on where that small hole is. Also, and this is purely a guess on my part, but there might be some after effect, like how certain bullets tumble when they enter a body. Something like that could do a lot of damage to a ship if it tumbles around inside a ship.

Capt.LoneRanger
02-04-2008, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by BRASSTURTLE:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by huggy87:
We are also transitioning from traditional steam powered catapults to electro-magnetic.

I'm no nukular physicist, but aren't chemical propellants and fuels considered not very efficient?

Electricity does not explode. Gunpowder does. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gunpower makes boom. Nuclear cores needed to power those guns on sea make a LOUD BOOOOOOM.

And they also make you glow in the dark and accellerates Darwins theories.

DuxCorvan
02-04-2008, 12:24 PM
Railgun works have been around for some decades. Many unresolved issues, though, need yet a solution.

Anyway, I don't think its future is in the naval warfare. Naval warfare -understanding as such surface vessels carrying weapons- has no future at all, IMHO. Extended unmanned aircraft range of action, satellite technology and global awareness systems will make war ships unpractical, and other methods for blockade and commerce raiding will be developed.

OldMan____
02-04-2008, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by crucislancer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JtD:
At these parameters, I am not impressed. Twice as fast as a conventional projectile, that's four times the kinetic energy. Hm. What about rapid fire? And will the solid slug do more than punch a small hole faster than a conventional gun?

I've been waiting for this for some time. Certainly, a sci fi weapon come to life.

I think rapid fire would be feasible, once they get the launcher ironed out. Remember, it's still got a ways to go before it's ready for deployment.

As far as solid slug doing more then just punching a small hole.......it really all depends on where that small hole is. Also, and this is purely a guess on my part, but there might be some after effect, like how certain bullets tumble when they enter a body. Something like that could do a lot of damage to a ship if it tumbles around inside a ship. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


The effect of a slug of metal hiting a wall of metal woudl be that a huge part of that energy woudl be converted in heat (specially since the shock wave cannto travel faster than soudn speed on the target solid material.

A 50 kg metal slug at mach 7 would produce such a huge overheating instantly that air expansion due to hit would be an explosion without explosives. When Battleships were hit by other BS guns we didnt had simple small holes, we had huge black scars of steel beein incinerated at thousands of dregrees.

K_Freddie
02-04-2008, 12:49 PM
As Oi said in the SH forums..
A highly improbable weapon, full of unpredictable problems like sun flares/magnetic disturbances enough to send the projectile through the rail itself.
Unguided accuracy at +200Km is a joke in earth atmosphere.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

crucislancer
02-04-2008, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by OldMan____:
The effect of a slug of metal hiting a wall of metal woudl be that a huge part of that energy woudl be converted in heat (specially since the shock wave cannto travel faster than soudn speed on the target solid material.

A 50 kg metal slug at mach 7 would produce such a huge overheating instantly that air expansion due to hit would be an explosion without explosives. When Battleships were hit by other BS guns we didnt had simple small holes, we had huge black scars of steel beein incinerated at thousands of dregrees.

That sounds better then I thought.

K_Freddie
02-04-2008, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by OldMan____:
A 50 kg metal slug at mach 7 would produce such a huge overheating instantly that air expansion due to hit would be an explosion without explosives. When Battleships were hit by other BS guns we didnt had simple small holes, we had huge black scars of steel beein incinerated at thousands of dregrees.
Is not this a HE or AP shell, compared to the 'Slug' we're using here

I wonder how much of the slug would be left after 200Km at mach7. To overcome the heat erosion problem they'd have to 'insulate' it, so it would probably be 'cool' when it hits the target.

Here's the problem.. Hard cool metal would most likely go though the target via a nice hole with little explosion.
Soft metal would go splat , but would soft metal be feasible in a rail gun.
Maybe a compromise.... Ah a thing for RAAAID http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Urufu_Shinjiro
02-04-2008, 02:47 PM
Google is your friend people, all these questions have answers for the taking.

Cajun76
02-04-2008, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by K_Freddie:
As Oi said in the SH forums..
A highly improbable weapon, full of unpredictable problems like sun flares/magnetic disturbances enough to send the projectile through the rail itself.
Unguided accuracy at +200Km is a joke in earth atmosphere.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

They're in work on GPS guided howitzer shells. Perhaps the same tech would apply...

Bewolf
02-05-2008, 06:07 AM
Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
Railgun works have been around for some decades. Many unresolved issues, though, need yet a solution.

Anyway, I don't think its future is in the naval warfare. Naval warfare -understanding as such surface vessels carrying weapons- has no future at all, IMHO. Extended unmanned aircraft range of action, satellite technology and global awareness systems will make war ships unpractical, and other methods for blockade and commerce raiding will be developed.

I do not think so. Naval power always was as much political as it was military. The system is called force prjection. It's a means of pressure in the politics game, so I doubt the big navy assets will vanish even in the more distant future. Besides there are only a handful of countries around that can actually invest into systems you described.

Pirschjaeger
02-05-2008, 07:10 AM
I'd invest in submarines. Who needs 100s of miles of range when you can swim right up to the enemy without them knowing.

Stealth is a powerful weapon.

Urufu_Shinjiro
02-05-2008, 11:00 AM
For those jonsing over this railgun stuff, check these out: http://youtube.com/results?search_query=railgun+test&se..._type=&search=Search (http://youtube.com/results?search_query=railgun+test&search_type=&search=Search) .

Pirschjaeger
02-05-2008, 02:04 PM
Is this railgun basically an uber solenoid?

Fritz

Urufu_Shinjiro
02-05-2008, 02:55 PM
Actually, there are a few rollercoasters that use railgun technologyto propel the train forward all at once instead of being pulled up a hill by a chain.

JuHa-
02-05-2008, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
Is this railgun basically an uber solenoid?


Basicly yes. Sounds promising, even if "only" used to double the range of conventional guns!

smokincrater
02-05-2008, 09:57 PM
It is all very well to have this gun. Targeting will be the problem point and shoot of the old days will not work for this gun. Also they is possiblity that this technology will spark an arms race. Remember what happend when the British introduced HMS Dreadnought to the world. All navys had to transfer to the new design of ship. The same could happen. Even though don`t like to be conservative keeping the status quo is probably best for the worlds navys. Also the old leap frog effect of, gun punches though armour, armour is developed to stop gun, gun developed to punch though armour etc.

Enforcer572005
02-06-2008, 02:57 AM
As was indicated already, the next generation of CVN will have rail guns as catapults.

As long as there are oceans, aircraft carriers in one form or another will always be needed for successful operations. Ships without air cover are targets.

WN_Barbarossa
02-06-2008, 03:06 AM
Railgun? It could be cheaper than the tomahawk missiles in 20-30 years, but I still doubt it's accuracy. I mean classic naval artillery never cared about civilian losses when shelling cities.

However, an article about another future of U.S. Navy:
http://www.exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=15976&IBLOCK_ID=35

gdfo
02-06-2008, 03:53 AM
When I was a kid I used to get catch colds alot, then the Doctor removed the uber solenoids
and after that I did not get sick very often.

Pirschjaeger
02-06-2008, 03:54 AM
Have you guys considered explosive armor? Sorry, I don't know the technical term but this is used on tanks to stop shells from punching holes in the tank.

Explosive armor could be used to stop the railgun projectile from penetrating the ship.

Fritz

flyingloon
02-06-2008, 03:58 AM
i think the reactive armour works more by disrupting the shaped charge effect, to prevent penetration or reduce it. not so much to destroy the round on impact. i think a purely kinetic round would still hit with sufficient energy to penetrate.

Pirschjaeger
02-06-2008, 04:02 AM
Makes sense.

Fritz

whiteladder
02-06-2008, 04:20 AM
i think the reactive armour works more by disrupting the shaped charge effect, to prevent penetration or reduce it. not so much to destroy the round on impact. i think a purely kinetic round would still hit with sufficient energy to penetrate.

First generation reactive armour worked on this priciple, the current generation use a slightly different principle that makes it effective against kintic rounds. This is known as "heavy reactive armour" it is basically 2 heavy metal plates with and an explosive core, when the armour is hit(by a shaped charge or kintetic penatrator) the explosion of the armour forces the plates apart. In the case of a shaped charge the this has the effect of forcing fresh plate into the path of the jet. On a kinetic penetrator the large sideway force can sheer the rod into two or more pieces.

The Kontakt-5 ERA was tested by the German Bundeswehr and the US Army and armour was found able to 'shattered' their 120mm DM-53 penetrators