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View Full Version : Allied aircraft engineering worth the Nobel Prize



jugent
12-08-2005, 04:33 PM
I looked at a track from a gamer. He wanted me to write about it because his english isnt so good.

He flew the Me262 at 7 K level flight and a P-47 matched him in speed. The distance didnt change significantly.

After some time he went head to head with the P-47 and although it seemed as if the 30mm shells must have hit the P-47 only one hit the wing of the P-47 at aprox 150 m, but the 262 got one engines in flame.

The P-47 should continue flying unless there where a collision.

The same thing happend a quarter of an hour later but this time they didnt collide so the Jumoengine torched the a/c.

No hits on the P-47 and from the 262-view the tracers looked as if they must have hit, but they didnt. The sight was perfectly aimed, he started to fire at more than 500m, and didnt stop until after the collision. If you looked at the P-47 from its view, the tracers seemed to go below it.

Some times later the 262 was on the 6 of a P-47 and it looked as if it was impossible to miss, but as usual the tracers and smoke-trails from the shells, seemed to avoid the P-47, at point blank range, on hit in the wing but no visual effect on the P-47. The damageprofile must be something special, it took a 30mm hit in the wing, in the aileron-area but no effect.

After some time this repeated itself, but this time no hits on the P-47.

What is this? Has the P-47 a deflector shield?
Has it a method that onle on hit out of five is counted?
It seems as the Me-262 got a huuuuge damagesector around its engines.

Did the P-47 was almoust as fast as the Me-262 at 6-8K?

The allies dont need a jet, they got the P-47, its better.
Its no great difference in speed, the mg:s are equal to the 30mm, it can take more damage, it curves better, it accelerates better.

I dont know if the difference in vertical topspeed.
The Me-262 must have been overestimated in the war, I have read books that many bombercrews refused to fly unless the 262 was grounded.
Many P-51 pilots wrote about their frustration when the 262 just flew away.
Jonnie Johnsson wrote, "to add injure to insult the 262 made a slow roll when he flew away from us"
or is the 262 undermodelled in this game.

Skycat_2
12-08-2005, 06:45 PM
Are you trying to start trouble? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I don't know about the top speeds, but I tested the Me 262-a2 vs. a flight of friendly P-47Ds (the newest one, the boosted kind) to see about the damage model. The 262's cannons ripped those Jugs to pieces with only half second bursts. I lined em' up, tapped the trigger, and the P-47s literally blew apart.

Wierd stuff happens in the game from time to time though. Once I had all the default skins on a flight of Bf 109s appear scrambled. The best way I can describe it is that the planes looked like the new U.S. Marines desert battle dress camoflage.

p1ngu666
12-08-2005, 07:04 PM
mk108s have dire ballistics.

neural_dream
12-08-2005, 07:09 PM
The Me262 in-game is significantly faster than the Jug at 7000m. Over 100km/h difference.

Also, the Me262 isn't a fighter, it's an interceptor. Going against P-47s isn't a good choice.

HayateAce
12-08-2005, 07:10 PM
Yes, the Jug won the war.

http://www.jkaerotech.com/P47/P47-08.jpg

Viper2005_
12-08-2005, 07:19 PM
System performance directly affects sim performance. One time when my PC was acting up I flew online and put over 30 rounds into a Spitfire (I was flying an Fw-190A9) without effect. He then turned around and killed me. I was not impressed.

I reinstalled the game, cleaned up my system and suddenly found my hit rate went through the roof.

As for the kinematics, the P-47 is very fast at 7 km - this is especially true of the new boosted D model.

In addition it seems almost immune to overheating if flown correctly on most maps, allowing cruise speeds of around 670 km/h TAS to be maintained as long as there's fuel in the tanks.

That's pretty fast.

The 262 must be flown with great care at high altitudes if its full performance is to be realised. Its thrust lapses with altitude faster than the P-47's power lapses with altitude for technical reasons which I won't go into.

Anyway, it's very difficult to beat a well flown P-47D at 7-9 km in almost any aircraft in game excluding the two rocket planes.

If your guns aren't working as advertised, it's impossible!

I would also note that we all have good and bad days. Take a break, calm down and set up a practice QMB mission. Put some hours in and then repeat the engagement from the winning side.

Revenge is a dish best served cold.

VW-IceFire
12-08-2005, 07:51 PM
Don't sneeze at the Jug's engine tho...it will seize.

Tracks unfortunately do not always show the whole story. Sometimes they show the wrong thing happening...an aircraft being hit that wasn't for instance.

As far as the Me-262 vs P-47 at altitude...hard to say...never taken a Me-262 up there but at 5k and less I can guarantee that if the Me-262 is flown right its way faster and the P-47 has to be diving onto the Me-262 to achieve the kill. Yes of course the P-47 turns better and also accelerates better...262's were slow to accelerate (thus the massive flak lanes setup to bring them in and take them off under the allies fighter sweeps). The Me-262 also has very poor turn characteristics...

You have to fly it in straight lines and use your speed to position and attack.

Sounds like the pilot was not well versed with the Me262, underestimated the P-47s performance at altitude, probably flew against a relatively good P-47 pilot, and then experienced lag when attempting to shoot at the P-47.

The Me-262 takes a really experienced pilot with alot of time behind the Me-262 to make it work very well. At high altitudes the game is more even between prop fighters and jets. However, any jet jock will just point his nose 10 degrees down and fly away....

The Luftwaffe didn't often stay to fight with these things. Sounds like this guy did...

Badsight.
12-08-2005, 10:45 PM
the P-47 is the best equal fighter for over-8K battles

over7K the Me-262 is a pig & to get it up to speed takes carefull engine temp control

Pirschjaeger
12-08-2005, 11:00 PM
Lag, that's all, common lag.

Fritz