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View Full Version : Stealth in Assassin's Creed-POLL [Your Opinions]



shobhit7777777
04-25-2011, 02:49 PM
Hi All

I have been with franchise since AC1 and absolutely loves the concept of Social Stealth. The only problem is that it is not as developed as one would expect. Assassin's Creed 2 nailed it with the simple, easy and fun Crowd blending mechanic and the ability to hire factions and distract guards....but IMO It sorely need more depth in the 'Stealth' department. The Game itself stresses on the social stealth and 'Hiding in plain sight' aspect of the Assassin order...yet the sometimes the mechanics feel really lacking. Here's hoping that Ubisoft adds more mechanics and fortifies the existing ones.

This was my opinion. What do you guys think? Is stealth fine the way it is or does it require more work? Should the devs focus on Stealth or Combat?

P.S.

Here's a link to a thread where you can post and discuss gameplay ideas to enhance the stealth in the AC franchise
Stealth in AC-Whats Needed (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/9801039129)

itsamea-mario
04-25-2011, 02:57 PM
The simplicity of your sig is utterly hilarious by the way.

shobhit7777777
04-25-2011, 03:07 PM
The simplicity of your sig is utterly hilarious by the way.



Just thanked you...stealthy, again http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
*vanishes

Black_Widow9
04-26-2011, 12:43 AM
Reopened and close switched at the request of the OP. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

shobhit7777777
04-26-2011, 05:04 AM
@Black_Widow9

Thanks!

@Rest

Overwhelming support to Stealth. Me Like!

I hope Ubi gets the results, although 11 is not a big number but it still shows that a majority of us would like to see improvements in sneaking and general Ninja-ness in the game.

Mr_Shade
04-26-2011, 05:47 AM
Just so you don't get upset - remember that suggestions posted on the forums - are just that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

But you never know.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

shobhit7777777
04-26-2011, 05:55 AM
Just so you don't get upset - remember that suggestions posted on the forums - are just that

But you never know..
True http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

One can hope though! Don't worry..you won't find me crying bloody murder if the stealth is not reworked or built upon in the next title. Development is a right *****....I can only hope that the poll makes the devs focus a bit on the stealth, but I understand the complexity of making a game. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif...a deeper stealth mechanic is something i'd love to have..but I can well enjoy the game without it.
No butthurt from me. So far the devs have done an amazing job. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Cheers!

joelsantos24
04-26-2011, 12:35 PM
Stealth is definitely worth some more development. I'm not saying it sucks - quite the contrary, actually - since I love the way we can blend in with several groups in Assassin's 2, the way we can hire thieves and other groups of people, etc. I just think the game could be approached in a more "Splinter Cell" sort of manner, enabling us to assassinate our targets in a more disguised and inconspicuous way, sort of a "stab-and-leave" approach, by the time the target falls dead in the ground we're already on our way elsewhere without anyone even noticing.

It would also be cool if we could have something like the "speed-kill" from Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones, because that would make it easier for us to kill a potential target or some inconvenient guard, without raising any "red flags". This reminds those situations/circumstances where you're getting ready to perform a kill or any other action, it's not important, but then you realize that there's a guard somewhere doing absolutely nothing and he'll just ruin the whole deal. You have to go and kill or knock-out that guard (I'm thinking on Splinter Cell's terms) before you perform that action. It's needless to say that sometimes things don't go exactly according to plan, and while you're on your way to remove the guard out of the equation, something goes wrong and he gives the alarm.
Of course there's always the very negative aspect of this "speed-kill" dynamic/concept not being an original Assassin's idea. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

Neelanna
04-26-2011, 02:16 PM
I love the stealth in it so far. There are areas it could be improved, however, I don't want it taken to the point of most games where you somehow become 'invisible' just by holding down some sneak button.
Being stealthy should always require some thought.
Bringing in lighting/shadows, noise etc would be a welcome addition though.

shobhit7777777
04-27-2011, 03:53 AM
@POP_WW_2008

I really liked the speed kill in the "Two Thrones"
But could you explain as to how this would be applied in AC? I didn't really understand your point in your last post.

@Neelanna
You're right..the stealth does need some work. A simple ability to crouch for starters and the ability to sneak around in crouch mode would be really welcome....the sneaking around in the castello in Brotherhood really made me feel the need for such an option.

Also a welcome addition would be AI. Smarter guards...better hearing (they are practically deaf as of now) and better Vision.

Razrback16
04-27-2011, 08:07 AM
I just wish there were more blend options (such as blending at a food stand where Ezio would look like he is interacting with the merchant, etc.)

For the most part I like the game the way it is though. I tend to assassinate the main target in a stealthy way, and then fight all the oncoming enemies and try not to get hit at all.

joelsantos24
04-27-2011, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by shobhit7777777:
@POP_WW_2008

I really liked the speed kill in the "Two Thrones"
But could you explain as to how this would be applied in AC? I didn't really understand your point in your last post.

(...)

Just imagine you're on your way to accomplish an objective or kill a target, etc. However, this guard gets in your way or in some circumstance where you're gonna have to face him and knock him out/kill him. For instance, I love to travel through the rooftops in Assassin's 2 - it's a lot faster and fundamentally easier to get to a desired point in the city - but these rooftops are often swarming with guards/archers, and facing them will often raise awareness of your presence, your status as an opponent/enemy and subsequently your notoriety. With a tool such as the "speed kill", you'd be able to approach the guard from behind, for instance, and start the action with the push of as certain button and then perform the combo through the pushing of several buttons in a synchronised manner, of course. That would enable you to kill a guard without anyone ever knowing or noticing it. You could even do as one often must in Splinter Cell, and carry the dead opponents to a hidden place or to a more obscured location.

On the other hand - and this is what I meant with this being an "unoriginal concept" - this notion has already been used in a previous Ubisoft game (Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones), which means that some people wouldn't be that thrilled about an already used idea being applied in a more recent game, so that might bring some resistance against the whole idea/concept. But of course, this is merely my personal perspective and opinion, I'm not a game developer nor do I wish to step on anybody's toes, so to speak, it's only a thought. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

M4ST3R0fPUPPi3S
04-27-2011, 02:57 PM
I like Neelanna's point about lighting and noise, we need to be able to use the atmosphere, dynamics and surroundings to our advantage more.
Also I read this on the AC Wiki on "the creed" article:

The Assassins aim is to get close to their target stealthily, usually in public, to perform awe-inspiring assassinations. The greatest illusion from an assassination is that an Assassin seemingly materializes from nowhere, kills a corrupt public figure, and vanishes into the depths of the crowd or environment. If an Assassin is spotted stalking their target, the supernatural effect is diluted, and it becomes more difficult for the Assassin to reach his target.

Ubisoft, we need this approach to feature more in AC III, with the Assassination memory style of AC I enhanced by abilities and interaction with both the crows and the environment, wouldn't it be great if with an assassination memory, there were so many ways it could be done that every players assasination was unique?

Sorry if I'm rambling on, I'm new to the forums...

shobhit7777777
04-27-2011, 03:54 PM
@Razrback16
True.
More blend spots where Ezio is actually interacting with the crowd (just like in multiplayer) would be really welcome. It seems so artificial that he just stands in the middle of 5 people and is suddenly rendered invisible. IRL he would be harder to spot if he was talking or conversing with someone...less conspicuous.

@POP_WW_2008
Cool http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. I get it now. Sort of like a system which reduces frustration due to last moment detections and insta-fails. And don't worry about 'originality'. being unique for uniqeness's sake is pointless and counterproductive. If it works...use it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

@Neelanna

I agree. I plan a LOT of Assassinations in the night solely because I believe that it would easier for stealth. The sad truth is the Guards sensitivity is the same as in broad daylight. Although I'm not too keen on a light/shadow gameplay mechanic but I would like to see more guards at night but not as sensitive as they are during other hours.
BTW does 'anna' stand for 'brother' in your name? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

@M4ST3R0fPUPPi3S

Although it does sound pretty cool....if every assassination was made into a public affair, it would only leave stealth as the only viable option...alienating those who like a more combat oriented approach.
What we COULD do is plan WHEN and WHERE to strike. Choose the time and location. First we investigate the target. We do this by:

1. Following leads and interrogating certain people close to the target

2. Assigning the Brotherhood members to follow the target and find out his plan. You can assign a maximum of 3 Assassins to each target (just like you do when sending the assassins on assassination contracts) The assassins will then be unavailable for 10 minutes. They will follow the target and keep an eye on him/her. After the duration they will report back to Ezio/player and give him a detailed plan of the targets movement

After the investigation is complete the player will have a choice to attack when and where he/she wishes. Suppose the target makes a public speech at noon, goes to his brother's castle in the evening and then retires in his own castle for the night. Now the player has 3 choices after learning this thanks to his Assassins and investigations.

The player can choose to to kill the target when he is making the public appearance, using social stealth and sending a message.
The player can choose to ambush the target on the way to the target's brother's house..this will require that the player battle the guards and is a more combat oriented approach..or the player could choose to infiltrate the target's castle by night and adopt a more traditional stealth approach using the cover of darkness and wall-climbing/free runing skills.

What say fellow members? Like it?

lilbacchant
04-27-2011, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by shobhit7777777:
The player can choose to to kill the target when he is making the public appearance, using social stealth and sending a message.
The player can choose to ambush the target on the way to the target's brother's house..this will require that the player battle the guards and is a more combat oriented approach..or the player could choose to infiltrate the target's castle by night and adopt a more traditional stealth approach using the cover of darkness and wall-climbing/free runing skills.

What say fellow members? Like it?

I wish. That'd be even more open and strategic than it was in AC1. Unfortunately, they've been moving in the opposite direction, and more so, with each subsequent game. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

shobhit7777777
04-27-2011, 04:45 PM
I wish. That'd be even more open and strategic than it was in AC1. Unfortunately, they've been moving in the opposite direction, and more so, with each subsequent game.

still some hope mate http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
That's why it is important to bring to light the issues regarding stealth and mission design through polls and discussions like these.
Most threads on the forum are not related to gameplay and future direction of the franchise. As fans and forum members it is in our best interests to let these issues become more visible so that there is a higher chance that the devs focus on them. The lacking stealth features is certainly a major concern with a large majority of the fans (as seen on this poll). We can only hope that the devs listen to our gripes and make suitable additions. IMO we need more threads like this to gather sufficient feedback and actually help the developers at Ubi make a better and deeper game.

joelsantos24
04-28-2011, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by M4ST3R0fPUPPi3S:
I like Neelanna's point about lighting and noise, we need to be able to use the atmosphere, dynamics and surroundings to our advantage more.
Also I read this on the AC Wiki on "the creed" article:

The Assassins aim is to get close to their target stealthily, usually in public, to perform awe-inspiring assassinations. The greatest illusion from an assassination is that an Assassin seemingly materializes from nowhere, kills a corrupt public figure, and vanishes into the depths of the crowd or environment. If an Assassin is spotted stalking their target, the supernatural effect is diluted, and it becomes more difficult for the Assassin to reach his target.

Ubisoft, we need this approach to feature more in AC III, with the Assassination memory style of AC I enhanced by abilities and interaction with both the crows and the environment, wouldn't it be great if with an assassination memory, there were so many ways it could be done that every players assasination was unique?

Sorry if I'm rambling on, I'm new to the forums...
I totally agree. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Unfortunately this dynamic is impossible to achieve in Assassin's 2, for instance, which is the one I'm currently playing. Just last night, for instance, I fulfilled my fist assassination contract from Lorenzo di Medici, by killing this foreign or corrupt merchant at the public market, and I had to kill him right there while he was in front of a store. I killed him and I didn't hear a single sound, not even a scream from the public or people near that location. I have to admit I wasn't exactly conspicuous though, and I ran out of there onto the rooftops as fast as I could, so that might have helped. But my point is, the public and/or open-field assassination action, must be a lot more inconspicuous and disguised, almost imperceptible, which is far from what currently happens with Assassin's.

shobhit7777777
04-28-2011, 08:31 AM
I'm pleased with the voting results..glad a lot of the player feel the same way. It seems that the most desired addition would be an appearance changing/Disguise mechanic.

Xanatos2007
04-28-2011, 11:04 AM
I'm just going to keep saying "Social Stealth" until it finally rings a bell for someone on the Ubidev team.

shobhit7777777
04-28-2011, 08:05 PM
I'm just going to keep saying "Social Stealth" until it finally rings a bell for someone on the Ubidev team.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Cool

On a more serious note...any specific ideas?

shobhit7777777
04-29-2011, 04:33 AM
Come on fellow members! 400 views and only 29 votes! Please be vocal of your opinions..whatever they may be.

Inorganic9_2
04-29-2011, 06:04 AM
Guards need the sense of hearing.


We really need a way of moving guards after taking them out before they hit the floor. Stab. Wait while they stab there without calling out. Hit the floor. Pick up. Walk away with them over your shoulder. throw to the ground.

We need it to be more like grab/stab, drag away and lay down quietly behind an obstacle.

shobhit7777777
04-29-2011, 06:13 AM
Guards need the sense of hearing.


We really need a way of moving guards after taking them out before they hit the floor. Stab. Wait while they stab there without calling out. Hit the floor. Pick up. Walk away with them over your shoulder. throw to the ground.

We need it to be more like grab/stab, drag away and lay down quietly behind an obstacle.

I like the idea. Something Like in Splinter Cell Chaos Theory. You keep the attack button pressed and the character immediately lifts the body up after stabbing

shobhit7777777
04-30-2011, 02:42 AM
Assassin's Creed Revelation's has been Revealed (Yes pun intended..screw you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) Here's hoping that the Poll is noticed and required additions are made to the stealth part of the gameplay

To ALL Stealth Fans and Lovers:

Kindly start posting your suggestions/ideas/opinions...Vote if you haven't and make sure this thread remains alive...keep posting!
Your Creed henceforth is "Make this thread Visible" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

shobhit7777777
05-01-2011, 11:08 AM
The assassinations (low profile) don't seem stealthy enough. It just seems so conspicuous as you 'Hug' a guard and immediately the guard holds on to his kidney and collapses...raising NO suspicion at all. I'd prefer a more covert method of stabbing a patrolling guard so that even a couple of sentries nearby won't suspect anything.

I was thinking of using the brotherhood assassin's in aiding you in this. You should be able to summon them to form a mobile 'crowd' around you and you should be able to blend with them as a normal crowd. As you blend and approach a guard...you can move the complete 'crowd' with you...and as the guard is in the centre with your Assassin's forming a screen around you..you quickly stab the guy and move on...the Assassins remain and make a chaotic scene to draw attention to the body rather than to you..you escape in the confusion. If you linger they detect you.
Maybe the same could be done with crowds as well.

Anyone with any ideas regarding this?

shobhit7777777
05-03-2011, 06:06 PM
Posting from other thread*

Social Stealth: The crowd blending mechanic is great and the ability to sift from cluster to cluster is intuitive and fun...like moving cover spots, but what it lacks is deeper Crowd Manipulation. The closest we have come is using money to draw a large crowd. This mechanics needs to be further developed. In a game where a large part of the Stealth is dependant on 'blending' in I'd assume that we would have a more interactive crowd. In terms of Blending I would like to see more ways of attracting a cluster of people and getting lost in them.
I was playing a mission in AC:B where you have to escort a wounded thief to a safe point without getting detected (Notoriety was 100%), the crowd mechanic seemed shallow and like a frogger game in this instance. I'd like to see more ways of manipulating crowds and in turn the guards. I tried to draw the guards away from a spot by making a disturbance in the crowd (threw money, poisoned a guy) in both AC2 and AC:B but none of the guards came to investigate. I'd assume if people were clamoring about at least one of them would come over. The mission felt a simple game of moving into a crowd and remaining there. The crowd movement felt repetitive and the whole experience destroyed immersion as the NPCs kept moving about in clusters like mindless automatons..no dialogue, no random paths...just the same crowd moving between two points.
Here are some ideas to increase the social stealth aspect

*Ability to initiate chaos and lure guards or vanish.
It could be like Picking someones's pocket and planting the purse on a nearby NPC or blaming it on him, to start a fight. This should create enough of a fuss to draw the nearby guards for you to Assassinate/Evade.
Using explosives to cause a rush and divert the guards. Plant a bomb ANYWHERE, the crowd panics and starts running and the guards come to the source of the explosion

*Disguise. This has oft been repeated on the forum but it seriously needs a mechanic which allows you to alter the character's appearance to hide the weaponry and armor. Less of a Hitman-esque disguise but enough variation to fool the city guards. It totally destroys the game when you are a wanted Assassin and simply walking with the crowd negates the fact that you're carrying a crossbow, a sword, a dagger and wearing pauldrons, greaves and heavy armor. The weapons, the color of your clothes on your last mission etc. should have an effect on 'stealthiness'. Clothing as a rich aristocrat, the guards will not bother you much unless your notoriety is high, you can ride a horse and generally go everywhere unmolested by the guards. Cloth as a common man you are better able to blend into the crowd and makes you disappear easier when your Notoriety is high, following people, losing guards, blending etc. becomes easier when you're just another peasant.

*Notoriety
It should be applicable both ways...on the crowd as well as the Guards. The crowd seems oblivious to your wanted status and does not react accordingly. The higher your notoriety the lesser the crowd clusters to hide in. If you remain in a crowd cluster too long they disband and move away from you, recognising you as a wanted criminal. The aforementioned disguise system should also increase/decrease notoriety. The crowd currently feels like a bunch of mindless random NPCs.

*AI
The sight lines and field of views of the guards is ridiculous, not to mention that they all are deaf. I am 30 yard away standing on a rooftop during a bright afternoon, dressed like a shiny Peacock and the guard is completely OBLIVIOUS! This really undermines the whole experience and is immersion breaking. Kindly increase the sensitivity of the guards, it is understandable in the streets with crowds and the noise but up there in the rooftops....

*Crouching and a corner cover system
The game desperately needs a crouch-walking mechanic. The stealth aspects are incomplete without it. Playing the castello mission where you have to rescue Caterina Sforza, two things really killed the otherwise super fun mission:

1.Extremely idiotic AI- I shot a guard 20 feet from another..only to be ignored...INCREASE VISUAL SENSITIVITY. It makes the game more fun and challenging. Please Ubi, increase the AI FOV and sight range. Also giving them a pair of ears won't be such a bad idea.
The moment you kill a guard in plain sight of another and expect that guy to come rushing and he doesn't is a massive buzzkill.

2.INABILITY TO CROUCH- forget the other gripes....crouch walking is desperately needed in ANY game with remotely stealthy gameplay. Several times I have felt the need to duck beneath a low wall and creep along it. Countless times I have been spotted when a simple duck would have hidden me from sight and allowed me to ambush my prey.

shobhit7777777
05-05-2011, 01:11 PM
Well, the teaser is out and I am really loving the new outfit design. Also really interested in the Altair/Ezio dynamic...waiting to hear more on that. The screens look amazing.

The results are out and there is an overwhelming support for Stealth. I can only hope that the devs focus a bit more on stealth...and TBH I am really not worried. Ubi has always delivered a fantastic gaming experience....I'm sure that the stealth gameplay will be enhanced and at least some of the wanted features will be there.
I can't wait to see the new mechanics http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Rea1SamF1sher
05-05-2011, 01:22 PM
AC needs difficulty modes and the ability to do the mission how an assassin would do it. While some didn't love the 100& Synchronisation, I did because at least there was a challenge. What I don't like is that AC begins to betray it's own very core element which is the "credo" or codex. I don't know how it's called in the english game. It definitely needs to be one of the core aspects too I mean noone should be forced to go that way but AC should prefer that way because it's the core of the franchise. Because the way it looks like now, next AC will be still focusing to much on combat. I hope they improved the Social Stealth system much more.

shobhit7777777
05-05-2011, 01:38 PM
AC needs difficulty modes and the ability to do the mission how an assassin would do it. While some didn't love the 100& Synchronisation, I did because at least there was a challenge. What I don't like is that AC begins to betray it's own very core element which is the "credo" or codex. I don't know how it's called in the english game. It definitely needs to be one of the core aspects too I mean noone should be forced to go that way but AC should prefer that way because it's the core of the franchise. Because the way it looks like now, next AC will be still focusing to much on combat. I hope they improved the Social Stealth system much more.

Exactly!
I dont want the devs to FORCE any playstyle...rather accomodate ALL. Social Stealth and Stealth in general needs improvement, because it the underlying allure of the whole "Assassin" theme. The game itself stresses on stealth and 'Hiding in plain sight' yet the system STILL feels a bit underdeveloped. Thats why I LOVED AC1. You could try to take the stealthy aspect and the combative players could fight their way through. Although the first game had BROKEN stealth...the concept of planning you attacks and playstyle was great and totally suited the whole idea of being an Assassin.

The second game..the devs GOT the stealth just right. Simple, fun and intuitive the crowd blending system was just right..coupled with the ability to use distractions like courtesans, money or Poison there were really huge and excellent additions to the stealth in the series. Although I missed the planning aspect of the first game..and there were still some areas that were lacking (guard AI, more ways to silently assassinate using the hidden blade, mor ways to use the crowds, crouching etc.) AC2 genuinely built upon the Social Stealth of the franchise....Brotherhood though was a disapointment since the stealth was left untouched and forced (100% synch) stealth missions just made it a chore.
What I can hope for in the next game:
*Ability to investigate target..and plan your attack
*A robust AI..with better and more realistic detection abilities
*More ways to covertly assassinate targets using the hidden blade
*Manipulate the crowd more
*Disguise/Appearence mechanic-this is pretty important....changing your appearance should affect your notoriety, maybe some rudimentary disguise abilities..like dyeing capes to the color of a rival faction, removing armor and weapons to avoid attention.

I hope Revelations offers a more enhanced stealth system.