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cygfrain
12-28-2005, 01:24 PM
Hi,

What sort of convergence do you chaps use for the P-38? I've set my m/c guns and cannons to 1000m to mimic the parrallel setting of the real a/cs as indicated by the books I have on the P-38.

I ask because my aim seems quite poor.

HayateAce
12-28-2005, 01:44 PM
Really, 150 or 200 for all planes seems to be fine. Set it, and forget it.

ytareh
12-28-2005, 01:51 PM
Obviously not as critical in P38 as in wing mounted weapon equipped planesIn fact the P38 is probably the least convergence sensitive plane in the whole game having that cannon smack dab in the middle of the nose(In theory could have 'infinite convergence').Then again be careful as I may have read that convergence is a 3 dimensional quantity ie its not just about "Left/Right" spread but also "up/down".

berg417448
12-28-2005, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by cygfrain:
Hi,

What sort of convergence do you chaps use for the P-38? I've set my m/c guns and cannons to 1000m to mimic the parrallel setting of the real a/cs as indicated by the books I have on the P-38.

I ask because my aim seems quite poor.

I ususally use 250. Don't forget that there is a vertical component to convergence too.

VF-29_Sandman
12-28-2005, 03:06 PM
350 or even 500 meters seems to work rather well at ranges as far as 750 meters. once u get used to the gunsite, the 38 is a deadly and accurate gun platform.

Capt_Pepper
12-28-2005, 03:30 PM
The P-38 is probably the plane I spend the most time in and IMHO, the convergence depends upon the target.

As others have mentioned above, as a fighter, I use the same convergences as denoted: mg's at usually around 250, with the cannon at 500 to 1000. However, I constantly use different convergences with ground attack that change with the different targets. This becomes very subjective and you'll need to determine at what distances you become the most efficient with.

If you're doing a lot of ground pounding, I'd suggest starting with all convergences high (say 1000 or so) and slowly work your way down with each one till you find the distances that work best for you. You can determine this relatively quickly in QMB: set up different targets (tanks and aaa work well) and attack them. See where your rounds (rockets especially) hit and at what distance. You can adjust from there.

Hope this helps.

Kuna15
12-28-2005, 03:31 PM
I like to set very low convergence for most planes. I set somewhat "longer" con.distance if it is late war in question (quicker action). But cannot generalize as for bomber hunting con. is almost always very low for max. damage in close range.

Now in P-38 actually it isn't a bad idea to set con. on 1000m (from my PoV) because you will have steady stream for 'sniping' from distance. 20mm seems to be quite uncompatible with .50cal so in hard deflection and some other hit chances I avoid using both weapons as I will miss with some for sure due to different ballistics.
If you however set your con. on 100-150m or alike you will have a shotgun platform which will work good for close up ranges covering more area. For medium/high distances damage from .50cal wont be as high as with high con. settings.

At the end it all depends on your flight/fight style. On P-38 my con. settings are around 300-400m most of the times.

cygfrain
12-28-2005, 05:03 PM
Thanks for the information eveyone, I'll try out some of the combinations you suggest Capt_pepper and Kuna15. Thanks again. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Aviar
12-28-2005, 05:09 PM
Over the years, I guess I've messed around with the convergence settings quite a bit. Right now, I mostly fly the P-38 and my settings are at 400 for everything. I'm sure personal flying style comes into play here.

I wanted to ask Capt_pepper about his settings. You have two different settings for your guns (mg's & cannon). Do you usually shoot them seperately?

I'll wait for your reply and we can discuss further. I can talk about the P-38 all day...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Aviar

Gibbage1
12-28-2005, 05:42 PM
The thing to remember is convergance is not only horizontal, but also vertical. Bullets have an arc to them, so if they need to hit the crosshairs at 200M, the guns aim up a little. If you have the convergance too far out, then it aims the guns up a LOT! So if its set to 400M, and your behind your enemy at 200M, it may shoot OVER the target. The P-39's 37MM is a great example of this. Your not shooting shells, but lobbing them.

I set it around 150, so if they are close, its dead on. If they are far away, I just lift my nose a little.

rnzoli
12-29-2005, 01:53 AM
Originally posted by Gibbage1:
I set it around 150, so if they are close, its dead on. If they are far away, I just lift my nose a little.
Wait a minute, isn't this the way around?
I your target is closer than your convergence setting (target in 200m, convergence set 400m, level flight, no deflection needed), that large shell from the nose cannon will meet the crosshairs at 200m and KEEP RISING a little bit more, because it comes from BELOW the crosshairs. Then gravity wins, but that's another story for muzzle velocity and arcing, not for the convergence setting).

So when target is closer than convergence, I though I should aim ABOVE slightly with nose guns and cannons, and when target is farther away than convergence, I should aim a lttle bit below.)

cygfrain
12-29-2005, 02:53 AM
Thanks Avair, Gibbage1 and rnzoil lots of food for thought and things to try.

I use the P-38 whenever possible Avair as I think it demonstrates great versatility and I enjoy the challenge of mixing it with the Axis fighters.

Aviar
12-29-2005, 03:07 AM
rnzoli,

You have it backwards. Gibbage is correct.

You were also incorrect when u stated "...that large shell from the nose cannon will meet the crosshairs at 200m...".

The shells will meet the crosshair at 400m, since that is where the convergence is set, as stated earlier in the same sentence.

Aviar

Kuna15
12-29-2005, 04:00 AM
I find that the .50cal is perhaps the most rewarding in straight from 6 shots when enemy is running away. Very little "lobbing" is needed, like Gibbage said it is in most cases dead on the target. Deflection shots are different however.
Up to 400m .50 cal is very deadly & accurate. In close ranges (200m and below) nothing can withstand accurate fifties burst.

Just to illustrate, few days ago I was on server flying P-51D. I spotted Stuka ~2k below; throttle back and dive - when I was in shooting ranges (~500m) I send him quick burst (just to correct my deflection). In spilt of a second I again opened fire at very close range (250-300m) and shoot all the way 'till I passed him (I have observed hits on port wing). I didn't saw what happened to Ju-87 but to my amazement when I pulled up I saw wingless Ju-87 spinning to ground. I have trimmed his wing off because I catched him straight in my convergence!
My gcon. was 180m.

Gibbage1
12-29-2005, 05:19 AM
Ya. If you can tag the target at convergance AND they dont slip through the "packets" then the the .50's are devistating. I remeber diving on a He-111 taking off from an airbase and let loose at 300M on top of his wings. The left wing came clear off and he crashed.

rnzoli
12-29-2005, 05:35 AM
Originally posted by Aviar:
rnzoli,
You have it backwards. Gibbage is correct.


Yes, I re-read it and it makes sense. Basically, he says that the convergence setting compensates also for the arcing (which I though was something you compensate with deflection shooting only).

But then the bullets at convergence distance will only be in front of the crosshairs during level flight, right? During a dive and climb, I have to aim BEHIND the target, since the arc will be more 'straight', and the projectiles will pass above the crosshair at convergence distance.

Same with shooting from a banking aircraft - 90 degrees banking means that I have to shoot slightly ABOVE and BEHIND the target. Above to compensate for the arc parallel with the wings ('sideways'), behind to compensate for a non-exiting arc perpendicular to the wings.

Is this logic correct then? (A good diagram would help... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif)

I guess the best is to have a short convergence setting and shoot from close distance. Any error introduced with arcing etc. is minimized that way. Then increase the convergence distance gradually, as experience is gained with bullet path arcs.

Aviar
12-29-2005, 12:54 PM
Sorry, but I still get the feeling you don't quite grasp how convergence works. How can you possibly "...shoot slightly ABOVE and BEHIND the target..." both at the same time?

Also, you seem to be focusing more on the attitude of YOUR plane. In deflection shooting, the speed and attitude of the target plane is much more important, in most cases. The exception would be if your plane was in some kind of violent maneuver, in which case you may only be able to get off a snap shot, at best.

Aviar

rnzoli
12-29-2005, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by Aviar:
Sorry, but I still get the feeling you don't quite grasp how convergence works.
You're right. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Let's leave it that way. Instead I will ram my poor target, at least I don't have to worry about any convergence there. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

rnzoli
12-29-2005, 04:33 PM
Some good resources about gunnery in general:

http://ww2airfronts.org/bob2/bagthehun.zip

http://home.austin.rr.com/jg13/fw190gunnery/Horrido.doc

Not mentioning the convergence settings however.

cygfrain
12-30-2005, 11:48 AM
Thanks for all your views in this discussion, they are very enlightening. Particular thanks for gunnery resources from rnzoli, they are most interesting. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Gibbage1
12-30-2005, 05:05 PM
I saw a FW-190 convergance chart, and the bullets arc up OVER the gunner line of sight, and come back down onto the convergance at the light of sight. If the aircraft was closer, and in the line of sight, they would arc over the target and not strike the target. Thats why setting the convergance at 400 is VERY bad if your shooting the target at 200M. YOur firing over the target.

For long distance shooting, ignore the 20MM's and use only the .50 cal's. They arc a lot less, have good dispersion, and keep there energy longer then the 20MM. Much better long range weapon.

BfHeFwMe
12-30-2005, 11:11 PM
Steep shot up, aim for prop. High and in trail, shoot near the tail.

Just basic gunnery rules, you throw in a little gravity compensation with severe pitch angles. Bullet loses velocity faster going straight up, and retains velocity better going pure down. Not much compensation needed, but it will make the difference in just crippling or killing with an accurate first burst in a difficult situation.

jds1978
12-31-2005, 07:27 AM
my gun con. for P38

.50 cal= 500m
cannon= 1000m

once you get used to nose guns things get interesting quick.