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View Full Version : Simple Truth....We're all the same



LEBillfish
06-19-2005, 09:21 AM
Hi All;

They're so different, like this, like that, nothing like us.......etc......

Truth be known, when you get down to it, grind away the outer skin and get down to who people really are we're all about the same.

I was just sent a photo from someone who is helping me learn about Ki-61's that sadly I can't post here having given my word to not infringe on copyrights, however the most interesting thing about it is what is "Not" supposed to be there.

We have all heard about American automotive assembly lines, here in the Detroit area naturally the stories are many....Sadly as well few far from the truth. Beer cans in door panels, graffiti under carpeting, Bourbon bottles stashed up under the dash and naturally the classic bag of weed forgotten or someone's sandwich stuffed away all eventually found by owners or service people when the car is worked on.

Marbles in hubcaps, door panels or rolling on some lip of the interior dash all particularly annoying.....All true stories and simply the mild ones.

The photo sent to me is of a Ki-61 frame being stripped for restoration, a square recessed panel maybe a foot square underneath the skin with a gap of maybe 1 1/2". Through this panel behind the outer skin ran the fuselage fuel fill....Yet essentially this area would be much like a hidden room, no access, so what is there when the skin gets riveted on stays there.

Inside was found a "riveting bucking bar". A rather heavy and hard chunk of steel maybe
3" x 1 1/2" x 3/4".......Every climb, dive turn, bump on the runway or in turbulence this thing had to bang all over no doubt sounding like a 50cal. round slamming in to the fuselage 2' behind you head level.

My "guess" would be more then one time the pilot upon hitting turbulence, nerves on edge as it is no doubt jinked from the noise....Irritating at the least.

Deliberate?...Doubtful like the cars above simply carelessness my guess. Yet it seems the world over the little things will always prove out our claims of "we" do it better then "them" are simply wrong....Leaving the world with only "us".

Anyone else ran into such things from either WWII aircraft or even modern day military machines?

ElAurens
06-19-2005, 10:11 AM
Great words Billfish. On a similar level I am always struck by the photos of the young men who flew these machines, no matter what country they are from.

Some show false bravado, others the strangely thoughtful look of a very young man forced by circumstance to mature far too quickly. The wistful look of those missing their friends or lovers. The look of fear, or most often simple boredom.

"They", "them", the enemy, are us, and we are they...

It is sad that the thing we seem to do best as a species is periodically decide to wipe out large numbers of each other...

Salute!

BM357_Hbent
06-19-2005, 10:29 AM
Not anymore!

Now we have the NUCULAR BOMB!!!

ALERT THE INTERNETS!!!!!!

VF-3Thunderboy
06-19-2005, 10:51 AM
Well yes we are all the 'same' in certain ways. A study of Chinese art history would show you that they had a "Picaso"or 2 3000 years before spain. The Japanese also had a modern art movement,(impressionism) as opposed to realsim... but then again, you are talking about East Asia, not Africa.

While in the West, during the 15th- 16th centuries, Michelangelo (as well as others before him) allowed themselves to do classical nudes (in public) the muslim Countries BANNED all forms of realistic human representaion, and still do to this day....Modern Western European humanistic values are not the SAME as the repressive cultural VALUES in most if not all muslim countries, as well as the unorderly third world toilet aspects that most countries around the world find themselves in - Africa has recieved 6 times the amount of money as the rebuilding of Europe after WW2, and yet it has show absoulutely NO PROGRESS, it has only made some very rich third world despots....


Speaking of the west, the TURBINE ENGINE that is used by all modern 20th century naval vessels
was inspired by an ancient GREEK invention,(Western) 4000 years ago,

So in many ways we are very very different,and that FREEDOM, Lebillfish, is what is worth fighting and dying for...

Actually, it is only the liberal people in the WEST who continually trying to undermine and destroy what took centuries to build....

No, we are all very very different...Not all people have Western values.... no way baby...no way.....

Its also INCREDIBLY condencending for you to imply that the world is one big happy family. Where in gods name do you get these ideas??

Women do the breeding, males do the killing...

Yin-Yang- Got a problem with that?- Talk to god..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

VF-3Thunderboy
06-19-2005, 11:09 AM
Actually, maybe you should get some DIV-ersity training Lebillfish...

DIV-erstiy means DIV-ide, to separate

DIV-ey up - to split up
DI-sect To split part

DIV-ersty was an invention of mainly the "minority" communities in America (with mainly third world decendancy), saying that "we are NOT like you Western European folk, we be

DI-fferent

Again, its not MY OPINION, its a historical FACT...


Im gonna have to start charging for the education here pretty soon....I want to bring y'all up to at least Jr High standards...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Rebel_Yell_21
06-19-2005, 11:13 AM
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/upfiles/smiley/00000613.gif

SKULLS_Virga
06-19-2005, 11:58 AM
Speaking of the west, the TURBINE ENGINE that is used by all modern 20th century naval vessels
was inspired by an ancient GREEK invention,(Western) 4000 years ago,

What invention was this?

SeaFireLIV
06-19-2005, 12:23 PM
It`s just too hot to get this deep today...

LEBillfish
06-19-2005, 01:01 PM
LOL... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif...That has to be one of the worst trolls I have ever seen Thunder, very funny.

We all know you're much more clever and surely know that many of us come from backgrounds and are old enough to see through such posts. I mean gee whiz...we can read hehe. I myself coming from what had to be the most ignorant and backward of white trash upbringings one could have in the Mountains of Tennessee.

C'mon, you can do better, that's well beneath even what I would expect my hick family to of come up with to try and instigate...and they would have believed it hehe http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

But here's a minnow for the effort...
http://mbgnet.mobot.org/fresh/slide/pict/46.jpg

LEBillfish
06-19-2005, 01:08 PM
Anywho....apart from the trolls to educate us ignorant masses....Anyone else run into anything like I described above in your research?...Graffiti or goofs from manufacturing on the planes we fly?

jarink
06-19-2005, 02:05 PM
I once saw a well-done grafitti-stle "FTA" drawn with marker on the underside of a floorplate in an M-577 (command post version of the M-113 armored personell carrier). Sometimes our mechanics would also loose tools, spare bolts, etc. in the bilges as well.

For those that don't know, "FTA" is an acronym for "F**k the Army". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

SKULLS Virga
06-19-2005, 02:13 PM
I have found pocket knives, pens, wrenches, screws, nuts, bolts, rivets, large birds nests (one filling the entire vertical tail assembly of a Learjet), insects, insect nests, and some white powder residue that we feared was something illegal. All this stuff was below floorboards or otherwise within the inner workings of the aircraft. I have heard many times about the stuff they would find while looking at x-rays from DC-3's (and C-47's) - hammers, packs of cigaretts and various tools. All entombed there since the aircraft was manufactured.

cpirrmann
06-19-2005, 02:48 PM
I'm involved in restoring a B-17E that was rescued from Greenland and we found many things left inside. Including the infamous bucking bar and the stencil used to paint the bomb group insignia on the side. I guess that emphasizes the point you are trying to make. It's also probably evidenced that enemy fliers get together and even become friends after the war. We pilots share a special bond.

shinden1974
06-19-2005, 04:36 PM
Considering I'll still work in aircraft maintenance, I'll keep my opinions in that realm to myself. I've found some amazing things though. And maintenance people like myself are famous for leaving our 'imprint' in hard to find places. I don't do it, I'd hate to think somehow a crayon mark might cause a crash...that's how paranoid I get about the lives I'm somewhat responsible for.

On 'us' and 'them' and all that, I'm afraid I'm somewhat in thunderboy's corner, I'm just not as seemingly angry about it. I'm a third world immigrant myself, and the joke is, those of us who adapted to our new home have flourished and those who refuse do not and spit on those that do. But honestly, this isn't the place to be even arguing such things anyway.

My thing on us and them and why don't we all get along is simple...our sameness is part of the problem.

However we love to apply Anne Frank's philosophy to the world "all people are basically good at heart". This isn't even close to true, and her fate proves it. all people are basically people...capable of great good but usually great evil.

Waldo.Pepper
06-19-2005, 04:38 PM
This info on the Seiran was posted before but it fits with this post.

"Who could have stuffed those papers into the fuel tank--for a possibly disastrous result of clogged fuel flow--of this aircraft, probably the highest priority project in the Japanese Navy?"

From this site.

So who says your iron bar find could not be some form of sabotage. If it was in the Seiran who knows.

http://www.nasm.si.edu/museum/garber/aichi/aichitems.htm

Lebillfish; I think you should know I'd be interested. Check PM please.

LEXX_Luthor
06-19-2005, 07:10 PM
Thunderboy::
Africa has recieved 6 times the amount of money as the rebuilding of Europe after WW2, and yet it has show absoulutely NO PROGRESS, it has only made some very rich third world despots....
Funding from World Bank and International Monetary Fund, and closely associated "non governmental organizations" are not designed to ensure progress. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif A comedian said it best...



"Every 30 seconds a woman gives birth," said an American comedian a few years ago, mimicking the stuffy Washington
bureaucrats who administer U.S. foreign aid. "Our job is to find that woman and stop her."


sadly, offline now ~> http://www.africa2000.com/BNDX%5Cbao303.htm
I wish I saw that comedy act, or show if it was on TV. You don't see that often.

knightflyte
06-19-2005, 08:12 PM
I don't think sdome of you are peeling down far enough. Sure there ARE differences from culture, education. environment, but on a whole if you look deep enough you'd see a LOT of commonalities.

Having our children happy and healthy with the advantage of a good future because you worked to provide it IS A COMMONALITY.
Love for family, responsability to the community is a commonality. Wanting to be remembered whether through your progeny or through acts in life is a commonality.

Those are basic and are VERY RARELY influenced by culture, education or environment.

Aside from the possible sabotage as mentioned in a post, quite possobly the riviet bucking bar was left to be discovered as reminder of the person who left it there: a placard that said 'I was here'. (innocently or foolishly thinking no harm would come)

Every car I've owned and sold I place my initials on the underside of the trunk wall.
If there's no trunk I'll do it under ashtray.

It says I was here.

But the differences listed by Thunderboy are culture, education and environmental...... not the deep inner things that ARE the same in MOST people

I think that's what LEBillfish meant.

(And DANG LEBillfish........ what are you thinking? Didn't you learn from last time. Never cast pearls before swine. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif)

LEXX_Luthor
06-19-2005, 08:42 PM
Good post knight. And LEBfish I'm sorry for my DI~version above.

knight::
...quite possobly the riviet bucking bar was left to be discovered as reminder of the person who left it there: a placard that said 'I was here'. (innocently or foolishly thinking no harm would come)

Every car I've owned and sold I place my initials on the underside of the trunk wall.
If there's no trunk I'll do it under ashtray.
Well, initials you may not want to leave inside an airplane or you could get caught. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I read an article in which the author wrote about seeing Japanese written deep inside a fighter plane, by one of the many young people put to work making airplanes late in the war. That's all I recall about it. When you think about it, Japanese writing is a visual Art itself.

fordfan25
06-19-2005, 08:50 PM
i once found a tunafish sandwich in the dash of a 56 chevy.


ps, it tasted like chicken

knightflyte
06-19-2005, 08:57 PM
Ewwwwwwwwwwwww I hate chicken..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Oh I forgot........ about ten years ago my brother in law worked as a mechanic for a Pontiac dealership. The dealer he worked for had a customer come in for faulty air conditioning and heater ventilation.

The mechanic who worked on the car found a 6 foot python in the heater vent....STILL ALIVE.

LimaZulu
06-19-2005, 09:30 PM
On several occasions I've lost hacky sacks in the back of MC-130s. (don't ask) I guess at some point during retrofits somebody uncovered them in the depths of the fuselage and wondered WTF?

LZ

WWBrian
06-20-2005, 03:00 AM
Well, initials you may not want to leave inside an airplane or you could get caught. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I read an article in which the author wrote about seeing Japanese written deep inside a fighter plane, by one of the many young people put to work making airplanes late in the war. That's all I recall about it. When you think about it, Japanese writing is a visual Art itself.

Well, about 15 years ago I was involved in the restoration of a B-29.

The rudder came in very deteriorated. The old fabric was stripped off, repairs were made to the framing, and new fabric applied. But before the anti-oxidant "dope" was applied, I grabbed a sharpie and signed my name and drew a little sumtin'-sumtin' to leave my mark. Then sent it off.

Heh, wouldn't you have done the same?

And no, I aint tellin' on which B-29 it's on. Just know that it is one of them you may see

knightflyte
06-20-2005, 05:52 AM
I officially change your name from WWBrian to Terrell Owens.

Or, maybe not.

Good move tho Brian. Now you're a part of history. I'd have done it too.

Skycat_2
06-20-2005, 04:35 PM
I remember that the Komet on display at the Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio might have been sabatoged by the workers who built it. I found more on that at this site (http://www.enquirer.com/editions/1999/12/08/loc_air_museum_shows.html):

"The aircraft, carrying serial number 191095, might have been sabotaged during construction. Restorers found a small stone wedged between the fuselage tank and a support strap, possibly intended to cause a fuel leak. Somebody had scrawled inside the 191095's skin the French words for €œplant closed€ and €œmy heart is not occupied,€ apparently a reference to German-occupied France."

Feathered_IV
06-20-2005, 05:33 PM
Hi LEBillfish,

The Australian War Museum was recently doing some conservation work on their Bf109 (G6 model I think). When removing sections of the skin from the tail section they found anti-German graffiti written by Russian slave labourers.

EiZ0N
06-20-2005, 05:44 PM
Thunderboy sounds like a racist xenophobe, which is quite funny in a thread about how we are all the same.

I totally agree with LEBillfish. It's completely ridiculous how we have fought and squabbled over pathetic petty differences, for all time, and more so that we show no sign of stopping.

actionhank1786
06-20-2005, 05:46 PM
Hey when it comes down to it, we are all the same.
In countries the response to pain it to flinch, sadness brings tears, and happiness Bring's a smile. It's the same no matter what kind of person you are

FoolTrottel
06-20-2005, 06:04 PM
Hey when it comes down to it, we are all the same.

Totally agreed... we ARE!

I think the problem is the fact that there are borders... countries ...

Why should the simple fact that I was born at GPS location <x>,<y> (z) at <moment-in-time> provide me with a nationality?
Oh, you could say, 'but yer Parents, they are from <feel free whatever nation you want to put here> so ..' and I say, why should the simple fact that my parents were born at GPS location <x>,<y> (z) provide them with a nationality? And, we can go on like that ...

Oh, the humidity ...
(Sorry, I live in a country not used to tropical conditions, but... it's still over 25C outside .... and it's two hours past midnight!)

Stackhouse25th
06-20-2005, 06:13 PM
i like billfish's lez cut

LEBillfish
06-20-2005, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by Stackhouse25th:
i like billfish's lez cut

Why thank you very much Stackhouse http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif....

Most dress wearing nancy boys do http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

ElAurens
06-20-2005, 10:01 PM
http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/ROFLMAO.gif

Nimits
06-21-2005, 12:54 AM
Another "unique" post by Billfish. . . You gotta credit her with persistance . . .

While humans indivually are all equal(ly wicked)in the sight of God, their works and actions are not. Some cultures and political and economic systems, specifically those that promote liberty, property rights, and free enterprise, are superior to others, which eschew those very same things.

SeaFireLIV
06-21-2005, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stackhouse25th:
i like billfish's lez cut

Why thank you very much Stackhouse http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif....

Most dress wearing nancy boys do http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think I officially like LEBillfish now. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

LEBillfish
06-21-2005, 01:33 AM
Originally posted by Nimits:
Another "unique" post by Billfish. . . You gotta credit her with persistance . . .

While humans indivually are all equal(ly wicked)in the sight of God, their works and actions are not. Some cultures and political and economic systems, specifically those that promote liberty, property rights, and free enterprise, are superior to others, which eschew those very same things.

You miss the point of the post?.......re-read it and you might discover that "the simple truth, we're all the same" = "We all make mistakes.....and what goes on on a assembly line anywhere is the same"......Has nothing to do with governments and politics...Has to do with peeeeople....

However, being those that "promote liberty, property rights, and free enterprise, are --==superior to others==--"..........Tell me why we found a wrench in the Porsche "from the factory" and a bag of weed in the Jeep "from the factory"?....

Oh wait, I know.....The wrench was a starter tool kit and the weed a rebate.....ahh I get it now, thanks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Also, I'd reconsider your justification as to what makes a "better people"...That is unless you like the wealthy being naturally better...

VF-3Thunderboy
06-21-2005, 09:01 PM
Ok, so Im the only non-gay poster, so Im called a racist zenophobe??? No fair, I cant think like a fairy!!
Just not that good at bending over, like all you clever "guys"...!

IF you favor "Western Democracy", over say, Islamic Sharia Law, that would make you a "RACIST ZENOPHOBE" - el idioto, especially as islamisists are very unfriendly toward gays.....Call 911- have them pull it out....

god,PLEASE PLEASE help me!!




We all know you're much more clever and surely know that many of us come from backgrounds and are old enough to see through such posts. I mean gee whiz...we can read hehe. I myself coming from what had to be the most ignorant and backward of white trash upbringings one could have in the Mountains of Tennessee.

Ahhhh- that expalains your inability to think above the third grade level-at least on this political issue-Thanks for clairifing that..,

BTW: I didnt see any actual arguments to my post. (Because there really ARENT any,are there??)-Lmao

Good lord, help me god....This isnt real....


Greek invention, the aerodyne? Look up the inventor of the Turbine engine, it should have what inspired him...

It was a round metal object, that had 4 flame holes comming out of it....I guess it rotated when they were lit...

Ok, now for more education:

Russia is considering a law to ban beautiful Russian women from marrying foreigners.They will be stripped of citizenship, because Russia needs to protect its precious resources....Russian Babes...

Finally - a country with a brain!


Help me god....

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

LEBillfish
06-21-2005, 09:18 PM
<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">***yawns***</span>

blakduk
06-21-2005, 09:30 PM
LEBillfish- i take it your point is really that no-one is superior to anyone else simply because of where they come from? As Lincoln said 'It doesnt matter how tall your Grandfather was, you have to do your own growing'.

On the other hand, if we're all the same, why doesn't everyone fly as badly as me????

VF-3Thunderboy
06-21-2005, 09:38 PM
Bast*rd Russkis!
Let the BABES go..

Ok, this girl is NOT the SAME as a guy, I know alot of you "guys" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif dont understand that,but I guarantee you...NOT a GUY!!-and yes, that makes me a SEXIST ZENOPHOBE....

Im writing a letter of PROTEST to Moscow....


LET THESE WOMEN GO!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

http://www.oksanalove.com/public/gallery/pics/2449/2.jpg

initjust
06-21-2005, 09:41 PM
Well, at least tb is not ranting on and on about combat altitude as he is so inclined to do.

VF-3Thunderboy
06-21-2005, 11:16 PM
aeolipile- thats the greek thing...


Well, at least tb is not ranting on and on about combat altitude as he is so inclined to do.

This is a combat flight simulator Init- STILL havent figured it out yet - eh???

LMAO

I guess god is out for the evening...

"Well, at least tb is not ranting on and on about combat altitude as he is so inclined to do."-init

Night of the living brain dead......Aughhhhh


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

ploughman
06-22-2005, 06:00 AM
Who let the renaissance male in?