PDA

View Full Version : 1939 convoy action



mnordby
10-03-2006, 05:45 PM
I've just finished an attack on a convoy at night just north of Ireland, Oct, '39. It seemed as though the two Black Swan frigates were just there as scarecrows. They never seemed to detect me with hydrophones, and I was able to approach on the surface far closer than I would have thought. Were British escorts even equipped with 'phones/ASDIC in Oct '39?

I hit two C3 Lg. Merchants directly amidships with impact torpedos, and the broke right in half & sunk. That model seems to have a weakness amid, particularly with keel shots. C2's don't respond the same way; I haven't yet found their weak spot, but I think it's aft.

mnordby
10-03-2006, 05:45 PM
I've just finished an attack on a convoy at night just north of Ireland, Oct, '39. It seemed as though the two Black Swan frigates were just there as scarecrows. They never seemed to detect me with hydrophones, and I was able to approach on the surface far closer than I would have thought. Were British escorts even equipped with 'phones/ASDIC in Oct '39?

I hit two C3 Lg. Merchants directly amidships with impact torpedos, and the broke right in half & sunk. That model seems to have a weakness amid, particularly with keel shots. C2's don't respond the same way; I haven't yet found their weak spot, but I think it's aft.

hueywolf123
10-03-2006, 07:34 PM
Yes, but very basic. ASDIC, did not work very well in rough weather due to the oxeygenation caused by the water action around the hull.
They did not have any radar and had to rely on eye balls.
Night time and bad weather in 1939, made aiming hard, but easier to sneak up and sneak out again

Squalo1972
10-03-2006, 07:44 PM
Hi,

Not sure of the historical facts in this respect, however this is what I experienced in the game so far. I havent found any ASDIC activity during 39. Feeling safe with that fact and having read threads about going it harbours I decided to go into Dover Harbour myself. At this time I'm already in early 40 (must be jan or feb, not sure exactly as cannot check my computer at home)I got into harbour at night time and decided to wait submerged until early morning to be able to have a better view of what's around. Sudenlly I start hearing ASDIC and not long after a destroyer is over me. Managed to escapebut had a hard time. Now I know ASDIC is already used by some ships at least.

lecek
10-03-2006, 07:59 PM
ASDIC was invented between the wars. The Brits invented it to avoid any repeat of what happened in WWI with the U-boats.

During the war they would set up ships with ASDIC and then have their own submarines try to penetrate the defences in war games.

There was some wishful thinking going on here. The war games inevitably exagerated the success of ASDIC and before WWII started the general idea was that it had avaced enough to blunt the U-boat threat. The realitys of WWII put that idea to rest fairly quickly. Not that ASDIC was useless, several subs were tracked and killed with ASDIC right from 39. It is just that attacking a group of warships that know they are going to be attacked by a submerged sub in the next hour is a far cry from a convoy that doesn't know when it will be attacked, if at all, or even if the sub will be submerged.

The upshot of this post is that yes they did have ASDIC from the start of the war and yes some overestimated its power of detection.

Bootsmann0815
10-04-2006, 02:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mnordby:
I've just finished an attack on a convoy at night just north of Ireland, Oct, '39. It seemed as though the two Black Swan frigates were just there as scarecrows. They never seemed to detect me with hydrophones, and I was able to approach on the surface far closer than I would have thought. Were British escorts even equipped with 'phones/ASDIC in Oct '39?

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well spotted! That's why it was common practice in early war to attack a convoy from the surface, at night. It put the boat out of ASDIC reach ("Use the vertical!") and the increaded speed and manoeuverability made it possible to avoid premature visual detection of the boat.

In SH3, escorts are fairly "stupid" early on, but this changes considerably as the war progresses. Some mods/supermods also have more and better escorts and hunter-killer groups early on. Playing the War Ace 1.92 (UBWA) supermod, I just got sunk twice off Scapa in 1st/2nd war patrol, Sept/Oct 39, by elite DDs (CrewRating=4 in the Campaign_RND.mis file), and in UBWA there are quite a bunch more of them around at that early time in other places, even more than in TGW.

Michiel_88
10-04-2006, 02:55 PM
It gets fun later on when they have radar, radardetectors, ASDIC, hydrophone, hedgehogs, side launched DC's etc... And now I'm not even mentioning the aircrafts. Enjoy it now that you can hunt around without being hindered too much, it will change.

hueywolf123
10-04-2006, 03:03 PM
I'm not nit-picking, but if the game modders did more research on hedgehogs, they would realise that this weapon was not as deadly as it is being portrayed.
I have read several accounts now from DD commanders who would not use them because they just didn't work. It was intended, that when one exploded on contact, the others would all explode too. This only ever happened in testing. The weapon meant the DD had to slow to below 8kts, or it would cripple itself running over the things, this left it a sitting duck.
Read the book, 'The U-boat Peril' by Bob Whinney, and you'll see all about it

Michiel_88
10-04-2006, 03:29 PM
Yeah, the in-game hedgehogs are quite effective. Once they know your position, they can accurately launch a set of them, damaging your boat quite a lot.

Hueywolf, doest this mean the hedgehogs were thrown over the bow of the DD? I always thought they were launched off the side of the ship.

hueywolf123
10-04-2006, 03:35 PM
Yes M88, they were launched over the bow, ahead of the ship