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XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 06:52 AM
While on a mission; Dgen 41' Crimea campiage, as escort a Recon plane. I was shocked to see P.11c in Romanian marking as Recon plane. That "red" plane supposed can't be play as "blue". Hey everyone, is that not new news to you?

Regards
SnowLeopard

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 06:52 AM
While on a mission; Dgen 41' Crimea campiage, as escort a Recon plane. I was shocked to see P.11c in Romanian marking as Recon plane. That "red" plane supposed can't be play as "blue". Hey everyone, is that not new news to you?

Regards
SnowLeopard

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 07:00 AM
Um,so are you saying it's red or blue? Romania was allied with Germany,so it'd make sense that a P.11 with Romanian markings would be blue,as are all Axis planes....If your saying it's red,I have no idea why. What year are you in? It could be after Romania defected to the Allies,later in the war....

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg


Message Edited on 09/10/0301:03AM by necrobaron

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 07:29 AM
Ok guys, PZL 11 is a Polish plane. Romania imported it befor the war.

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 07:38 AM
Hence the part where I said,"P.11 with Romanian markings..."

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 08:48 AM
necrobaron wrote:
- Um,so are you saying it's red or blue? Romania was
- allied with Germany,so it'd make sense that a P.11
- with Romanian markings would be blue,as are all Axis
- planes....If your saying it's red,I have no idea
- why. What year are you in? It could be after Romania
- defected to the Allies,later in the war....

For example, If Finland capture I-153 and I-16, Can it flown as blue? I tried to edit dgen to accept them but not working. That is why I wonder which plane Allied and Axis can have them. Should FAF able to fly captured planes in FB's FAF campiage?

Regards
SnowLeopard

Message Edited on 09/10/0302:56AM by WereSnowleopard

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 09:02 AM
both germany and romania flew captured p.11

---------------------------------------
A to the K to 4 to the 7 little
devils dont go heaven Freedom got a AK
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XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 01:57 PM
fradd wrote:
- both germany and romania flew captured p.11

I think you don't understand my question.

Regards
SnowLeopard

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 04:09 PM
WereSnowleopard, I guess I understand your question:

Can BLUE side use planes from RED side?

Yes. Moreover: in the campaign I'm making with my friends there will be *many* surprises like that - so that you'll never be sure again who is RED and who's BLUE /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I'm not 100% sure how this was executed in this case, but there are few tricks for that. I have made missions where RED planes shoot to "RED" planes and troops (note the quotation marks).


An Romania, of course, used many Polish planes:
http://www.arr.go.ro/airplanes.htm



R. "Rola" Skibicki

-----------------------------------
Polish Aviation Museum supports us!
http://www.muz-lotnictwa.krakow.pl

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 07:55 PM
P.11c should be a blue plane. Dunno why it's red by default in FB. It fought against Germany - but that was 2 years before Barbarossa. At the time Germany fought against Russia, P.11s were axis planes (Romania).


<hr>

<p align=center style="width:100%; filter:glow[color=#33CCFF, strength=2)">

<img src=http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/willey110.jpg border=0 alt="Hier geht's zur I/JG78"> (http://www.jg78.de)

</p><font color=59626B>

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 12:34 AM
Yes, I know some minor axis even some allied have planes from other side like Romanian have P.11C. I knew Yugoslavia have some Bf-109E before war that Luftwaffe flew against them in same planes!

For example, can you try edit Dgen FAF campiage to accept play I-153 as along with B-239 and Hurricane MKI without use FMB. Can anyone do that? Let us know if can do it into Dgen. Thank you.


Regards
SnowLeopard

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 09:20 AM
OK, a little QUIZ for you, guys:

September 1939 - where should P.11c belong? To BLUE or to RED side???

Is it possible to score points by shooting T-34s while flying Russian(VVS) IL-2?



@SnowLeopard:

I'm making a dynamic campaign with Starshoy, so I had to look into the files (I'll make examples on Finnish campaign):

planesFiF.dat : planes for use in Finnish campaigns

Apart from plane types (internal game names! check MessageEn.dat to see the EXACT spelling!) you'll find entries like [Leningrad42] - which have corresponding .DB files with Ordre de Batalie for particular campaigns.

Happy hackin'! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif




R. "Rola" Skibicki

-----------------------------------
Polish Aviation Museum supports us!
http://www.muz-lotnictwa.krakow.pl

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 10:10 AM
Skibicki wrote:
- OK, a little QUIZ for you, guys:
-
- September 1939 - where should P.11c belong? To BLUE
- or to RED side???


Red side? In defense of Poland?

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 10:17 AM
necrobaron wrote:
- Red side? In defense of Poland?

defending Poland - CORRECT
RED side - then what about September 17th??? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



R. "Rola" Skibicki

-----------------------------------
Polish Aviation Museum supports us!
http://www.muz-lotnictwa.krakow.pl

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 06:33 AM
Skibicki wrote:
- necrobaron wrote:
-- Red side? In defense of Poland?
-
- defending Poland - CORRECT
- RED side - then what about September 17th???

Ah! This day of September 17th, when Russia (Soviet in this era) decide to invade East part of Poland. You almost catch me off guard for a min. Woo hoo.

Regards
SnowLeopard

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 11:46 AM
The P.11's flown by the Romanians were mainly the final production version of this aircraft. It was an export version of the P.11a and was designated P.11b by the Poles. The Romanians called them IAR P.11f. Was basically the same but the P.11c improved visibility by lowering the enginge and raising the pilot. Look at the fuselage and you might note some heritage handed down to IAR 80 & 81. Some P.11's were also flown to Romania after the German & Russian invasions in 1939. The Romanians also used P.24's, as did Greece and Bulgaria. The Poles only used one P.24 in combat and had the prototype of a completly new fighter still under testing. The Morane MS 406's were still on docks in France awaiting shipment when the war started.

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 06:06 PM
Tintin, I'm glad to see you're interested in Polish designs! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Basically what you wrote is OK, but I've got some first hand info, so I hope you won't mind if I correct you a bit /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

---------------------------------------------------------

* Romania ordered 50 PZL P.11b in Spring 1933 (this batch was made before "a" series and thus it was inferior to "a" & "c") - last plane delivered in 1934 was P.11/IV (a prototype of "c" variant) which served as a basis for Romanian licence-built IAR P.11f.

Romania illegaly seized Polish P.11's (a & c, along all other planes evacuated there) when Polish Air Force was regrouping in Romania awaiting British and French shipments heading to the port in Konstanca.

* 160 Morane MS 406C1 (120 of them equipped with cannons) ordered from France: first 20 were loaded on a ship in Havre at the end of August and headed for Romanian shores - it was returned home. As Romanian government changed his attitude towards Poles two British ships (s/s Lassel & s/s Clan Menzies) carrying 15 Hurricanes Mk.I (with Polish checkboards and cockpit equipment in Polish), 1 Spitfire Mk.I, 22 Fairey Battle Mk.I (hey - I even know their serial numbers! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ), tons of ammo & equipment were stopped in Turkish port.

* P.24 was used by Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey and Greece, but sadly it was never in Polish service. The only plane that looked almost exactly like P.24 and saw combat was a prototype of improved P.11 version - the P.11g "Kobuz"


The prototypes in the works or cancelled international orders are different story.... too much stuff for a single post /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

If you're interested I can tell you someday about these "what-ifs":
P.11s over Spain and Japan.... serial production of Lockheed L-10 in Poland exclusively for European market... F4F "Wildcats" on Polish sky...

---------------------------------------------------------

I only hope the bugs that plague P.11c in the game will someday be fixed: I've sent a bug report directly to Oleg, but as of FB1.11 this bird is still "made via guesswork":

PZL P.11c - speed in level flight:
==================================
-----------Youssa's
altitude - IL-2 Compare v2 ----------- original PZL manual
m ----------- km/h ------------------------ km/h

0 ----------- 316 -------------------------- 276
1000 -------- 327 -------------------------- 295
2000 -------- 339 -------------------------- 314,5
3000 -------- 352 -------------------------- 334
4000 -------- 365 -------------------------- 355
5000 -------- 375 -------------------------- 375
6000 -------- 370 -------------------------- 337
7000 -------- 365 -------------------------- 326,5
8000 -------- 358 -------------------------- 302

If this data truly comes from the game then we're really scre.... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif



R. "Rola" Skibicki

-----------------------------------
Polish Aviation Museum supports us!
http://www.muz-lotnictwa.krakow.pl

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 11:16 PM
Not to mention:
-loosing stearing
-braking wings
-mistery explosions
all in dive. Every this is not true, and not historicaly correct. P11c had not maximal allowed dive speed. It had mirrors, usualy only 2mgs (lighten version) and dropped main gas tank! All of these are reported to Oleg by Skibicki (Rola), (he has much more detailed description with oryginal data etc.), nothing were done since Il2 times (only braking off wheels). Sad but true. Rola, we are all with you, holding fingers that one day...



Fly fast, stay high, shoot to kill.

Message Edited on 09/13/0310:22PM by JG300_And

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 11:31 AM
No problems Skibicki, I appreciate the information. The stuff I get out of books, here in Australia is often too generalised. Am always interested in Polish and all military aircraft for that matter. I would love to see a Polish campaign with the PZL 23 Karas or even a "what if" scenario where WWII was delayed and PZL 38 Wilk and PZL 50 Jastrzab were available in numbers. It was a disaster for Poland and the world that the PZL designer, Zygmund Pulaski lost his life at such an early age. People tend to forget that in the mid 1930's, the Polish Air Force was probably the most modern in the world. Currently learning to use the FMB to design a Swiss Fliegertruppe campaign. Naturally information is scarce, but I'm using the P-11 skin for the Dewoitine D 27's operated by them till early 1940. Thats why this post caught my eye.

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 11:04 PM
Was Poland aligned with the URSS or with Germany? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Let's not forget that Poland was invaded by BOTH powers in Sept. 1939. Most of the Polish land the Russians conquered is still Russian territory. After the allied victory the Polish had to recover the previous extension of their country at expense of East Germany territory.

Many Polish aircraft were captured by the powers implicated. Germany used captured P.11c as training and artillery aiming aircraft, but the Romanian used them along with the P.11f and P.24 that had purchased some time before.

So they're not RED nor BLUE. They're in the middle, I'm afraid. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

- Dux Corvan -



http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612322300

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XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 11:52 PM
DuxCorvan wrote:So they're not RED nor BLUE. They're in the middle,
- I'm afraid.

So would that make them purple?/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif ..../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 09:17 AM
In cockpit view its missing the ends of the wings too


http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif

Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 11:44 AM
To DuxCorvan. Here is a rough outline of what happened to kick off the big one. At the start of WWII, the Poles were aligned with the western democracies of Great Britain and France. The Munich appeasement of 1938 wrecked the wests eastern front counter to nazi Germany. The occupation of the remainder of Czechoslavakia after this agreement (appeasement), convinced the British, French Governments and public of Hitlers aggresive, deceitful nature and that the menace had to be stopped. They then formed a new eastern front based on Poland. They tried and stupidly failed to secure an alliance with the USSR. Poles didn't want Soviet troops on their soil. Bad memories from 1919/20. Big mistake, because the Germans signed a treaty with the USSR in August 1939. However, the west still thought Hitler was sane like them and would not to risk war over the Danzig corridor. But Hitler wanted war and the whole of Poland, but not a war with the British. Hitler didn't think the British would go to war over Poland, he hoped to seperate them from their French allies. The Poles under Beck had a treaty with the west, their generals were confident they could hold the Germans. They wern't going to back down to Hitler. At the end of August, Hitler attacked, each others bluff was called and nobody backed down. Stalin got his extra 100 miles of eastern Poland and the Baltic states as part of the deal with Germans. Anyway, thats my reading of history, but if there are other interpretations, well that's fair enough too. Hope this helps shed some light on this for you.