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View Full Version : Offline play has been sadly neglected by oleg



tom22tom
04-12-2007, 11:02 AM
Never thought I'd register here again now this place is a shadow of its former self, (not to mention a couple of bans) but I've been loyal to this sim from the start despite growing disappointment with the way this sim has developed, bought 1946 even though I've got all the others and sure enough another disappointment.
Perhaps I should explain my perspective.
I did have a spell playing online which was ok but there were the usual stick wigglers etc. back then my 56k connection probably didn't help, so, apart from BF2 my main interest is offline play which means AI opponents. It is interesting that the flight models and AI seem to have developed in parallel - first rubbish, then better, then rubbish again. Leaving FM's for another day, the Ai in the beginning obligingly flew straight and level, later, they wiggled about a bit but still moved in two dimensions, later still, they were actually good and fun to fight changing speed and altitude, now with 1946 we are back to the nonsense! Outrageous zoom climbs, or the LOD model gets smaller sooner, the obligatory tactic now is to push their nose down into a negative g dive (would be a very uncomfortable maneuver for a human pilot) but basically AI combat is a constant game of catch-up and very tedious. To cap it all when the AI decides the fight is over they slow down and cruise homeward line astern (just as they have always done).
Offline play has been sadly neglected by oleg, we've had the odd tidbit of a map thrown in occasionally, but basically it has never really improved. Why aren't all the maps available for offline play? an editable list of aircraft to chose from instead of the unintelligible chaos we have now, a pop-up picture of the aircraft as your mouse pointer hovers over the name a list that doesn't close itself just as you have finally found the aircraft your looking for, a "Swap" button so you can fly on the other side without going through the whole rigmarole again, the offline game could be made so much more accessible, why has it not? The final nail for me is the current AI, I groaned when I saw it and wished I hadn't installed 1946. Why do you keep doing this to us oleg?
In BoB don't ignore the offline game and make the AI - artificially intelligent.

Now, about those flight models....

flox
04-12-2007, 11:56 AM
AI combat is a constant game of catch-up and very tedious.

I agree with you there.



"Swap" button so you can fly on the other side

That's an interesting idea, sure to be loved or hated by most with little in between. Personally, I liked that feature when I used to play B-17 Flying Fortress II--jumping around from plane to plane was fun sometimes.

All in all, I'm no expert on the AI but I believe that part of the problem is that the game engine was originally created with the intent that the player could only fly the IL2 Sturmovik and as such has certain limitations that cannot easily be changed or overcome. Additionally, creating more "realistic" AI would require a lot more processing power on the player's part-- processing power that really did not exist for most people in 2001.

As to the AI not being as good as it used to be, I'm not sure about that. Can you remember a specific point (patch version) at which that was true? I've been playing this game for so long that I honestly don't remember.

papotex
04-12-2007, 12:25 PM
i know good AI is hard to come by....in any game
and especially in flight sims, YES AI here needs improvement.
but in 46 now i set up dog fight quik missions and i have a lot of fun with the AI as it is.

they dont run away for me anymore, maybe is because i have learned to play with this particular AI.

the AI in 46 is leaps more chalenging than most other sims. when those guys decide to give you a fight they give it good. like i said i guess i've just learned to play it. maybe what i mean is that i have learned to lure them in to me

also read upon how to squeeze as much speed from your aircraft if the AI does run away
by engine management and prop pitch.

FatBoyHK
04-12-2007, 12:48 PM
when the inevitable day finally comes, that it is possible to make AI as good as a real human, we will be very regretted to have developed AI....

lol, but it is another topic isn't it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

general_kalle
04-12-2007, 01:08 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif this is whats called whining. just to your info.

you might be right in some points. no daubt. the point is that what does it help to write about it here??

EctoGamma
04-12-2007, 01:15 PM
Well I have to say that being a bit **** at the game, I never felt the ai was *that* bad. I tend to be shot down every second flight or so on quick missions.

That said I remember chasing a 190f and all it did was costant loops, now I could not quite keep up with it....may be cause I was in a mig1 or may cause I'm **** at the game. Either way it was not very relistic......

PBNA-Boosher
04-12-2007, 01:28 PM
I agree there are some oddities in the FM of AI aircraft. Yesterday in a Bf-110 I dove 3000 meters vertically to escape an I-153 only to find out that the same I-153 kept up with me the whole way.
Still, I've never seen a game I liked more, and although I might try something else every once in a while, I always come back to what I enjoy.

crucislancer
04-12-2007, 01:28 PM
Why aren't all the maps available for offline play?

Uh, they are all available for offline play. Yes, only a few are in the QMB, and I still don't know why that is. Honestly, I don't really care. I tend to used QMB to test an idea or just to get my rocks off if I don't have the time to play a campaign mission.

But, ALL of the maps are available to use in the FMB to create offline missions or Campaigns, including all of the dogfight maps. You are aware of this, right?

The AI isn't the best, and sometimes it doesn't things that may be improbable or silly, but that goes with the territory. If you want AI that acts like a human pilot, upgrade to a faster connection and find some folks online that want to hunt you down.

And the FM? I'm not a real life pilot, so I can't comment. I've seen things that happen in the game that match up with anicdotes from WWII pilots in their memoirs and performance stuff in various books, and that's good enough for me.

It's a game, have fun with it or not.

p-11.cAce
04-12-2007, 01:29 PM
Why aren't all the maps available for offline play?

They are all in the FMB http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

flox
04-12-2007, 01:34 PM
Yesterday in a Bf-110 I dove 3000 meters vertically to escape an I-153 only to find out that the same I-153 kept up with me the whole way.

I find that especially annoying too. I remember being unable to dive away from a zero while flying the P-38J! How silly!

msalama
04-12-2007, 01:37 PM
Now, about those flight models.... (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/3881098535)

DKoor
04-12-2007, 01:40 PM
Offline play has been sadly neglected by oleg +1

Everything has already been said, I generally agree to this statement.


Originally posted by flox:
I find that especially annoying too. I remember being unable to dive away from a zero while flying the P-38J! How silly! Wha...? That's nothing... try to fight Ai Spit 25lbs in Me-262 (any variant). That is description of silliness.

shahram177
04-12-2007, 01:41 PM
Just my two cents.
The off line single player misions in new sim package are great...be it a bit short but great!
I wish there more well written well planned single player missions as such.

msalama
04-12-2007, 02:01 PM
The off line single player misions in new sim package are great...

+1

The best so far IMHO too. Not that offline play has OTOH ever been this sim's forte per se, you guys are right about that...

Old_Canuck
04-12-2007, 02:04 PM
Suggest a better sim and I might give it a try. It's unfortunate that IL2 has let you down but as general_kalle said already "what does it help to write about it here?" You should follow the example of Tagert who posted in another thread that he just pulled a hair out of his nose and it felt like his eyeball was coming out of its socket: now THAT'S a level of suffering most of us would whine about but he took it like a man and no doubt went right back to pulling out nose hairs. Give it a try M8. Instead of tormenting yourself with the latest disappointing purchase of IL2, try pulling out your nose hairs until the tears stream down your face. Then decide which you'd rather torment yourself with - IL2 or pulling out nose hairs. As long as you're having fun right? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

DKoor
04-12-2007, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by Old_Canuck:
Suggest a better sim and I might give it a try. It's unfortunate that IL2 has let you down but as general_kalle said already "what does it help to write about it here?" You should follow the example of Tagert who posted in another thread that he just pulled a hair out of his nose and it felt like his eyeball was coming out of its socket: now THAT'S a level of suffering most of us would whine about but he took it like a man and no doubt went right back to pulling out nose hairs. Give it a try M8. Instead of tormenting yourself with the latest disappointing purchase of IL2, try pulling out your nose hairs until the tears stream down your face. Then decide which you'd rather torment yourself with - IL2 or pulling out nose hairs. As long as you're having fun right? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif Hear hear... we have a fanboy here... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

What does it help to write here? What helped about zilo0roxrozored .50cal threads that were all around all oobi forums?
Oleg dispersed them, Oleg desynced them...
What about multipgz0red MG151 whine thread? "No more marshmellow 151's Oleg, please" etc.
Voila. We have fine minengeschlosses now.
Etc.
Need better proof?

Wait... it isn't about that is it?

Defend away... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif . Fanboy.

AKA_TAGERT
04-12-2007, 02:10 PM
Is this a good time to talk about what I found stuck to my back after swimming in the pool?

WWSpinDry
04-12-2007, 02:15 PM
Relax; it was just a Baby Ruth bar.

crucislancer
04-12-2007, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by Old_Canuck:
Suggest a better sim and I might give it a try. It's unfortunate that IL2 has let you down but as general_kalle said already "what does it help to write about it here?" You should follow the example of Tagert who posted in another thread that he just pulled a hair out of his nose and it felt like his eyeball was coming out of its socket: now THAT'S a level of suffering most of us would whine about but he took it like a man and no doubt went right back to pulling out nose hairs. Give it a try M8. Instead of tormenting yourself with the latest disappointing purchase of IL2, try pulling out your nose hairs until the tears stream down your face. Then decide which you'd rather torment yourself with - IL2 or pulling out nose hairs. As long as you're having fun right? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

I do both. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

XyZspineZyX
04-12-2007, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by FatBoyHK:
when the inevitable day finally comes, that it is possible to make AI as good as a real human, we will be very regretted to have developed AI....

lol, but it is another topic isn't it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Skynet FTW!!!111!!!!!11211!!

XyZspineZyX
04-12-2007, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by WWSpinDry:
Relax; it was just a Baby Ruth bar.

And it's no big deal. It's still good

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/carl.jpg

Bearcat99
04-12-2007, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by papotex:
i know good AI is hard to come by....in any game
and especially in flight sims, YES AI here needs improvement.
but in 46 now i set up dog fight quik missions and i have a lot of fun with the AI as it is.
they dont run away for me anymore, maybe is because i have learned to play with this particular AI.
the AI in 46 is leaps more chalenging than most other sims. when those guys decide to give you a fight they give it good. like i said i guess i've just learned to play it. maybe what i mean is that i have learned to lure them in to me
also read upon how to squeeze as much speed from your aircraft if the AI does run away
by engine management and prop pitch.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif


Originally posted by crucislancer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Why aren't all the maps available for offline play?

Uh, they are all available for offline play. Yes, only a few are in the QMB, and I still don't know why that is. Honestly, I don't really care. I tend to used QMB to test an idea or just to get my rocks off if I don't have the time to play a campaign mission.
But, ALL of the maps are available to use in the FMB to create offline missions or Campaigns, including all of the dogfight maps. You are aware of this, right?
The AI isn't the best, and sometimes it doesn't things that may be improbable or silly, but that goes with the territory. If you want AI that acts like a human pilot, upgrade to a faster connection and find some folks online that want to hunt you down.

And the FM? I'm not a real life pilot, so I can't comment. I've seen things that happen in the game that match up with anicdotes from WWII pilots in their memoirs and performance stuff in various books, and that's good enough for me.
It's a game, have fun with it or not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

crucislancer I have two wordsa for you as far as more mapos in the QMB.... Mission Mate (http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=8).
Try it..... It has a pretty straight forward help file and you wont go back to the QMB I almost gaurantee.

After that is all said and done then check this out: The UberQuickMisionGenerator (http://www.uberdemon.com/).

Between the two your offline play should improve.

WWSpinDry
04-12-2007, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by BBB462cid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WWSpinDry:
Relax; it was just a Baby Ruth bar.
And it's no big deal. It's still good </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

JHannibalSmith
04-12-2007, 04:47 PM
I agree that offline stuff has generally been neglected, but it's still a great game- more than a game really.

I do wish I could keep up with my AI comrades though!!! Infuriating, detracts from immersion, and just like the first IL2 again! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

(and it's not whining, it's discussing stuff. If it was all positive there'd be no point having a forum)

DKoor
04-12-2007, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by JHannibalSmith:
If it was all positive there'd be no point having a forum You think? Well... I guess I agree. That makes us a minority even in this thread.

We have a few bugs in offline mode that need to be solved for immersion & sanity sake.

Gotta love these "but it's still a great game" type of arguments.
While I generally agree, those posts don't really fit in a threads such is this and if we are unable to discuss like a grown ups then what is the point?

For instance, from now on, whenever someone says anything remotely bad about game I can point him in the right direction with "hey but it's a great game http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ". And a few well placed smileys. And if he persists I'll reply with "when you make a better sim, then I guess everyone will be playing that".

How nice does that sounds?

JHannibalSmith
04-12-2007, 06:43 PM
Gotta love these "but it's still a great game" type of arguments.


Hey it's a comfortable fence!

Happy smiley time: http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

crucislancer
04-12-2007, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
crucislancer I have two wordsa for you as far as more mapos in the QMB.... Mission Mate (http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=8).
Try it..... It has a pretty straight forward help file and you wont go back to the QMB I almost gaurantee.

After that is all said and done then check this out: The UberQuickMisionGenerator (http://www.uberdemon.com/).

Between the two your offline play should improve.

Thanks for the links. I think I'm gonna check them both out.

Bearcat99
04-12-2007, 08:21 PM
Between the two MM is more like the QMB... it is easier to use.. but the UQMG is very good and IMO a must have, they do a lot of things very similarly.. but there are differences. Tryy MM first though.. it will definitely do the trick.