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MajorPsycho
03-17-2011, 04:55 PM
Hello fans of Heroes series. I really love this game and I think it's very sad that multiplayer part of this game is in stone age http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif.

What do I mean? We must have simultaneous turns at all times not just for the first 5 minutes of the game. Game takes to long if we play a turn based game. I think that this is quite clear.

How was so far? We had simultaneous turns until we meet or get into the range of someone else. Nice but not good enough! I don't want to play one game for 5 hours! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Now how to make this game once and for all multiplayer friendly! It's actually quite simple.. listen up!

When 2 players meet..

Let's say player X decides to attack player Y. Player X has 5 movement points, same as player Y. So how to we solve this problem? When player X marks player Y ( as click on him, let's pwn! ), player Y is ALLOWED to make his move BEFORE he is attacked. And when player Y decides where he'd like to move ( when his 5 movement points are used he presses the READY button ). And both X and Y players MOVE AT THE SAME TIME. So the battle does not occur.

How we will ever fight then? I don't like to chase someone across the map forever? How will I be able to kill him!?

There are some items in the game that hasten your movement speed, gives you more movement points. So if you have more movement points you will catch him eventually! If you don't, then you won't catch him.

If you want to defeat him, you will have to attack his castle. Now that sounds so cheap doesn't it? But It's fair at the same time and only way we're able to implement simultaneous turns throughout the whole game! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif .

We can also add some Hero talents to help you catch up your enemy. Just like logistics / gives you more movement speed.

What I would add here are 2 things..
- Camouflage ( your hero is not seen if he's not closer then X fields to enemy player )
- Tracking ( you spot enemy heroes before, to counter camouflage )

Let's say that 2 player see each other when they come into movement range. If attacking player X had camouflage he'd wouldn't be seen unless he comes closer!

Example :

- basic camouflage ( you can move 2 fields closer without being spotted by enemy )
- advanced camouflage ( you can move 4 fields closer without being spotted by enemy )

So you'd come closer to your enemy without being spotted so the chicken wouldn't ran away!

If you move less movement points that you could, your movement points could be used in next turn. But not all of them. let's say 50% of points left from previous turn ( depending on camouflage level ). So if you'd really like to kill someone you can just follow them a bit and then strike.

Also! If player has a camouflage ability, he would receive a first strike bonus with one unit.

if the defending player has higher level of tracking, then the attacking player of camouflage, the deff. player would get first strike! Greater the difference between defending player's tracking level and attacking player's camouflage level, greater the first strike ability would be :

- 1 level difference : 50% of chosen unit preforms an attack.
- 2 level difference : 80% of chosen unit preforms an attack.

If player X has basic camouflage and player Y has basic tracking everything is evened up! And becomes normal.

If player X has Advanced camouflage and player Y has only basic tracking, player X can come 1 field closer without being seen.

how many field close you could came without being seen with each level of camouflage is yet to be decided! I'm just giving a example.

Here! I've build the roots on which you can build on. This is just an idea. But something need to be done.http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif.. I hope you understand my broken english. Forgive me, it's kinda late x).

That's how we would make multiplayer games more enjoyable and multi is a MUST these days.

Have a nice day!

mcgslo
03-18-2011, 02:00 AM
Its turn based game. If you play board game wich is also turn based game you also have to wait for your oponent.

Beside what slows down the game is battle. What is few seconds of advanture map play? When player enters battle mode than really time slows down...

like i said its turn based game and gameplay should be slow... dont want to turn homm into RTS or similar

Thunion
03-18-2011, 05:39 AM
Agree with mcgslo its a turn based game and watching how your opponent moves,alows you to carefully plan your next move in homm should never be anything like that "omg he is right here,ruun *click* *click* *click* awww i missclicked!"

rafiki69
04-20-2011, 06:42 PM
I disagree with mcgslo and Thunion if you want true turn based have an option to turn it off if two players meet the one who moves first makes the decision. It is a test of reflexes. This works in Civilization IV and V just fine.

RottaranOwain
04-20-2011, 08:49 PM
When I make a move in heroes 3 on the map, the turn usually takes something like a minute at most. A battle makes it more like 6 minutes. mcgslo is right, the battles slow the game down, not the overworld. And there's no good way around the battles.

cossacking
04-20-2011, 11:22 PM
I completely disagree with the thread author. MMH is a TBS and there is no reason to implement any feature he proposed.


Originally posted by RottaranOwain:
When I make a move in heroes 3 on the map, the turn usually takes something like a minute at most. A battle makes it more like 6 minutes. mcgslo is right, the battles slow the game down, not the overworld. And there's no good way around the battles.

Then, I must say that when you get a hold of things (like what's new & changed), exploring the adventure map is really fast. Also, noone spends minutes deciding what to build or hire in castles. And yes, it's the battles slow things down, that's why everyone turns the animations to fastest possible.

MajorPsycho
04-21-2011, 09:49 AM
My dear friends, reality is that multiplayer aspect of this game is not good. And there must be a reason for it. Ok maybe you play 1 vs 1, but for me that's boring.

Game should offer at least 2 vs 2 option without 5 hours game time.

In civilization there are simultaneous turns and noone is complaining, we can even change them a bit as I described and heroes 6 will become the new horse of the series. I'm sad because I'd like to test my knowledge/skill and the best I can do is to play against cheater ai or 1 of my friend. boring really.. check other games.. LoL, HoN, WoW = they offer massive player interactions and here we can interact with 1 player. Ok, it would be nonsense to speak about 10 player + interaction but 1? CMON!

I will defeat the campaign and then what? Wait for another expansion? So bloody boring!

All good games have GOOD multiplayer options! fact you cannot escape from! And when I look at heroes series, although I love them, It almost makes me cry because we're missing such huge fragment of the game.

PLUS!!!!!!! we can make it as an option. In this times noone is forcing you to do or play anything so we make it optional which would be really beyond cool. But I'm afraid im asking a little bit much..

I doubt that any big change will happen in next 10 years = op stupidity.

RottaranOwain
04-21-2011, 12:54 PM
A) Why are you comparing a Turn based stratagy game to an MMO?

B) Multiplayer is up to 8 people, and I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that it'll have online battles as well.

C) considering points A and B, MMOs require an internet connection to play, period. There is no "single player offline mode" in them, so that's something this game has that they don't.

D) again, your suggestions don't save nearly as much time as you think they do. As myself, and multiple people have stated before, a player's turn on the overworld takes a minute, max, even less during the actual game. Those 5 minute battles with map creatures is what slows it down.

A better alternative would be the ability to change the frequency of map creatures, to the point of turning it off completely. Boom, simple, and saves much more time than your suggestion ever will.

GamerGeek87
04-21-2011, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by MajorPsycho:

All good games have GOOD multiplayer options! fact you cannot escape from!

Final Fantasy/Dragon Age/Mass Effect/Elder Scrolls among others, now what good multiplayer options did these GREAT games offer?

And if there was simultaneous turn throughout the game it would no longer be a TBS it would be an RTS which is a very different experiance. I say leave it turn based and make it an awsome turn based game at that.

Dark-Whisperer
04-21-2011, 01:12 PM
I have no problem to invite 3 of my friends to fire up Heroes in hot seat, drink beer, have some junk food and play all night. Multiplayer is one of strong points of this game.

RottaranOwain
04-21-2011, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by GamerGeek87:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MajorPsycho:

All good games have GOOD multiplayer options! fact you cannot escape from!

Final Fantasy/Dragon Age/Mass Effect/Elder Scrolls among others, now what good multiplayer options did these GREAT games offer?

And if there was simultaneous turn throughout the game it would no longer be a TBS it would be an RTS which is a very different experiance. I say leave it turn based and make it an awsome turn based game at that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not to mention Mario Galaxy, Zelda, Half Life, and MIGHT AND MAGIC'S MAIN SERIES.

sharkitus
04-28-2011, 08:44 AM
I'm glad you guys put up the Q&A. Being a long time fan of the franchise I'm extremely disappointed in the lack of simultaneous turns. It was introduced in the last installment of HOMM and I was fooling myself into thinking that you guys were working on this with your "polish" magic. I'm not one to complain but with all the delays I was hoping for the best and was willing to wait.

On a bright note, I will be buying the game but not upon release. I will wait for this to get marked down 75% on steam. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

P.S. At the very least, you guys communicated otherwise I would've been tricked into the pre-order. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Goodluck!!

Phoenixzs84
04-29-2011, 08:23 AM
Its not the Human vs Human battles that slows down the game.Its those "cheesy" players who are exploiting all what the game is capable of to kill those creeps.

If you are taking 20 turns to kill a slow creature like a golem with a couple of elven archers and complain about the lenght of game please don't.Because you are boring your opponents to death.

Maybe apart from PvP battles there should be a time cap to the to the creep battles.Or far better only 20 turns per player turn could be taken.And if it exceeds 20 turns your turn ends and the combat continues in your following turn.

Some pre managment and give pre-orders while other players are taking their turns could also speed up the game.For example que someor building or recruit troops,sell some resources and give approval in the begining of your turn if everything is okay.

And hot seat aspect of multiplayer is rock-solid.But limiting creep-combat time could also improve that.Its quite boring to watch an obviously won battle while your friend is exploiting all possible measures to kill some creeps.

Arhaeus
04-29-2011, 09:15 AM
In order to have a fast MP, and eventually the possibility for H6 to be an e-sport there can be made some adjustments:

1. Limited turn time (based on the number of towns the players have).
2. Combat vs creatures on the map are automatically calculated.
3. Very fast animation.
4. Fog of war that regenerates.
5. Possibility for spectators and later stream commentators, to log on the game(like in SC2).

Karanshade
04-29-2011, 05:45 PM
FullSimTurn is done under Civ5. Yes it is surprising as a concept but so practical . Needed for H6 or the game will be a total outdated fail

Nxss
04-29-2011, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by Karanshade:
FullSimTurn is done under Civ5. Yes it is surprising as a concept but so practical . Needed for H6 or the game will be a total outdated fail

Noooo! Civ is a completely different dragon. And Civ 5 was crap! Heroes needs to stay the way it has been as there is not many TBS games left. Well, that are as good as Heroes. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Sunblazzer
04-29-2011, 06:50 PM
I'll repeat what Nxss said: "Nooooooooooooo!" :P
This is, believe it or not, a TURN based game; which means players have to wait while others play before they can start their turn. Period.

I will concede that having simultaneous turns while players are out of range of each other is a good idea. A suggestion could be that simultaneous turns end while heroes are within a range of 2 turns from each other or each other's towns/dwellings.

However this does leave open a vulnerability where players could tell that an enemy is near by noticing a change from simultaneous to turn based modes, and vice versa. The transition would have to be seamless.

Any thoughts?

[EDIT]: punctuation.

Nxss
04-29-2011, 07:28 PM
Umm, yes! I already said it was a TBS and I want it to stay that way. I'll get to the rest of your post tomorrow as I am going to play H4 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif