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sledgehammer2
06-18-2006, 07:00 PM
I have been on bit of a Dauntless kick lately... anybody else around here like this bird?

Especially with the enemy AI being what it is right now, I just enjoy flying this plane and practicing dive bombing stuff in the UQMG. I also like doing carrier take offs and landings.

Just wondered if I was the only one.

Regards
Sledgehammer2

leitmotiv
06-18-2006, 07:22 PM
You bet. I like to play a QMB of Richard Best's section (three aircraft) attack on AKAGI which scored the one hit which doomed the great carrier. What a terrific fighting airplane---there are few stories in combat aviation to compare with the HORNET SBD's run on SHOKAKU in the Santa Cruz battle. Alone and without escort they fought their way through the defending Zeros by dint of their excellent formation discipline and gunnery, delivered a devastating attack on the big carrier (if they had had AP bombs they surely would have sunk her), and most returned! Few light bomber missions against odds had such a favorable outcome.

knightflyte
06-18-2006, 07:42 PM
I remember as a teen building plastic models.....other than the P40, I'd say the SBD was my most built airplane...(probably five of them in different scales)...then a Guillows balsa model too.

If I had stayed with R/C flying I had always wanted to make a flyable Dauntless.

I think tonight I might just fly that bucket. I stink at bombing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Everyone always goes like this: http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif when I try to bomb something.

Nimits
06-18-2006, 08:14 PM
Yeah, it is certainly a fun plane to fly (though when attacking carriers one has to remember that the pilot is not supposed to be one with the bomb . . .)

sledgehammer2
06-18-2006, 08:24 PM
I'm not good at DB either but I have been practicing. Like I said the AI right now has just kept me from doing any air to air stuff. Hoping that's about to be tweaked but who knows.

I did some practice last night where I just tried to get used to keeping the plane trimmed and tracking correctly- the needle and ball seem to indicate a skid so I had to use a good bit of rudder to counteract. I tried it both with and w/o dive brakes. I worked mostly with 250 pounders and then with 500 pounders with 3 sec delay.

I plan on doing more. I will record a quick track and then go back to watch my bomb run and critique.

I even like the cockpit even though it's not that pretty. Good feedback - keep it coming.

Sledgehammer2

Crash_Moses
06-18-2006, 08:25 PM
Oh, yeah!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

My favorite plane next to the B-25 (and it's a darn tough choice if both are available).

If you're into off-line campaigns I highly recommend Zeus-Cats' "Straight Down" campaign.

S!

leitmotiv
06-18-2006, 08:36 PM
Crash_Moses, isn't it true you should only use ailerons and elevators in dive attacks and avoid using the rudder at all costs? I haven't reviewed my dive bombing sources and can't get to them right now. At any rate, this is what I do, and, up until I just started using the Eric Brown settings for my stick and have to relearn stickmanship, I was efficient at planting 1000 pounders on or next to AKAGI in the redoubtable SBD.

sledgehammer2
06-18-2006, 08:46 PM
Leitmotiv, you may have meant your last post for me... you may be right but I know that as I roll over into the dive and set the trim and deploy the dive brakes that the needle and ball on my instrument panel go to the left and I have to get on the left rudder pedal to correct. I'll recheck this tomorrow since I am about to turn in but I am pretty sure that is what happens.

Crash_Moses
06-18-2006, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Crash_Moses, isn't it true you should only use ailerons and elevators in dive attacks and avoid using the rudder at all costs? I haven't reviewed my dive bombing sources and can't get to them right now. At any rate, this is what I do, and, up until I just started using the Eric Brown settings for my stick and have to relearn stickmanship, I was efficient at planting 1000 pounders on or next to AKAGI in the redoubtable SBD.

Yup. Rudder use can really throw off your aim. I highly recommend zeroing trim before the dive also. I had a heck of a time hitting the target before I started doing that.

Funny you should mention the Eric Brown settings. I just started using them myself...lol

S!

leitmotiv
06-18-2006, 08:57 PM
LOL to you, Crash_Moses, now I can't hit AKAGI for love or money! What I'll put myself through for authenticity!

I wanted to check with the SBD expert before I said anything, sledgehammer2!

Crash_Moses
06-18-2006, 09:11 PM
lol...well, we're both in the same boat...I mean plane...now!

leitmotiv
06-18-2006, 09:13 PM
If you are hitting like I am, Crash_Moses, Halsey would wring both our necks and chuck us overboard!

S!

Crash_Moses
06-18-2006, 09:32 PM
Actually, the old coot has me grounded. 'Says I can't fly the SBD until I finish the new fleet precision bombing tables. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Like, what'd I ever do to him? Sheesh...

Zeus-cat
06-18-2006, 09:39 PM
I made a 19 mission sequel to Straight Down, but never got around to releasing it. I started to beta test it myself a few months ago, but only did 2 or 3 missions before I lost interest in fixing it. If people are interested I can try and finish it.

Crash_Moses
06-18-2006, 09:45 PM
Heck, yeah!

If it's as good as the first count me in. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Heck, even if it's only half as good as the first. I'd even settle for mediocre.

S!

leitmotiv
06-18-2006, 10:01 PM
Downloading, Zeus-cat!

You may consider the brand new Trumpeter 1:32 scale SBD-3, knightflyte---it isn't RC but it is undoubtably the most detailed SBD model ever done in plastic. I built many Hawk 1:72 SBDs and Monogram !:48 SBDs in my brathood! Have an unbuilt Accurate Miniatures !:48 -3 in my closet right now!

Everybody, there is a brilliant book on the SBD by a Spanish airline pilot:

SBD-3 AND THE BATTLE OF MIDWAY. Daniel V. Hernandez. Aeronaval Publishing, Torrent (Spain), 2003. ISBN 84-932963-0-9

It is in English and it is full of great info on the SBD and Midway. Has tons of photographs and drawings, plans, diagrams, and maps. It is a really great production. Highly Recommend. I got it direct from Spain with a credit card (I'm in the USA).

leitmotiv
06-18-2006, 10:23 PM
Thanks for all the great level bombing posts, Crash_Moses. By some miracle maybe you'll make even me a passable bombardier!

S!

Siwarrior
06-18-2006, 11:48 PM
i used to be part of an SBD squad

was great fun flyin that lil' beast http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif
japanese had no chance round me and my twin 7.62s!
takes a pounding the sbd and brings you back and can also dish it out in capable hands http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

leitmotiv
06-19-2006, 02:14 AM
Overcame Eric Brown settings and planted 1000 pounder right in the middle of AKAGI's flight deck after wind blew me 90 degrees to starboard at nearly the last second. Made textbook landing on LEX. Really pleased with self but "there but for the grace of God...."

I450IVex
06-19-2006, 03:21 AM
That Trumpeter SBD is a SBD1/2 Leitmotiv...
Good looking kit though, can't wait for the new p-40's from them in 1/32.

Maybe some day soon we'll see some twin engine 1/32's besides the p-38

sledgehammer2
06-19-2006, 04:10 AM
Hold on a sec guys.... take me back to basics here. What is proper dive bombing procedure? Aren't you supposed to cut the throttle first?

Why am I showing needle and ball off-center as I dive? You said zero the trim, what do you mean? The only trim I use is elevator and I have that mapped to the button that is on the Sidewinder stick that was designed for throttle. I use a CH throttle and pedals.

sledgehammer2
06-19-2006, 04:12 AM
Also, you said don't use rudder which makes sense, but what if it's necessary to center the ball?

BSS_Goat
06-19-2006, 05:59 AM
I love the it.

JG53Frankyboy
06-19-2006, 06:09 AM
i fly it not often, but when its most times a lot of fun !

i can remember two missions i flew online:
-on a dogfightserver, after i sunk a destroyer i got 2 Zeros and one Tony out of the reargunner position before another Zero shot me down http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
- in a VOW3 COOP Pacific mission, hunting a japanese Carrier, i flew with 6 human SBDs , all on Teamspeak http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . we got the carrier, and 2-3 of the defending Zeros - lot of fun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

nice plane !

Speedfellow
06-19-2006, 06:56 AM
Yep I like like to fly the SBD when ever I can its a real Zeke killer http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif and a flying Humvee.

BirdieNum-nums
06-19-2006, 07:41 AM
A great plane, the SBD. Beautifully modelled, neutral and predictable handling and you gotta love the twin fifties in the back!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

I love luring Zekes and making mince meat out of them. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif Great fun!

But the most fun, is getting 4 or 5 of these puppies in formation and going to town on an enemy carrier, dive bombing one after the other, just like they did it historically. Brilliant!!

Cheers,
Birdie Num-nums

zoinks_
06-19-2006, 07:44 AM
a thread about my favorite plane...sniff...

Crash_Moses
06-19-2006, 08:02 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Thanks for all the great level bombing posts, Crash_Moses. By some miracle maybe you'll make even me a passable bombardier!

S!

Wait 'till you see the full guide. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Now that I'm fairly certain the tables are correct I can get back to finishing it...

Crash_Moses
06-19-2006, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by sledgehammer2:
Hold on a sec guys.... take me back to basics here. What is proper dive bombing procedure? Aren't you supposed to cut the throttle first?

Why am I showing needle and ball off-center as I dive? You said zero the trim, what do you mean? The only trim I use is elevator and I have that mapped to the button that is on the Sidewinder stick that was designed for throttle. I use a CH throttle and pedals.



Also, you said don't use rudder which makes sense, but what if it's necessary to center the ball?

Well, first off, one thing I've noticed while flying the SBD(and while working on the B-25 precision bombing tables) is that when you start the mission your control surfaces aren't neutral. This means that, even if you don't apply any rudder trim during flight, it's still going to be off a bit. I like to re-center everything before takeoff and again before my dive (I use trim a lot!). The default keys are:

Elevator Trim Neutral = Shift+Up Arrow
Aileron Trim Neutral = Shift+Left Arrow
Rudder Trim Neutral = Shift+Z or Shift+X

In fact, centering the control surfaces is part of the startup procedure IRL. Go figure!

As for the ball not being centered...and I'm not 100% sure about this so somebody correct me if I'm wrong...I seem to recall an explanation that described the turn/slip indicator as being somewhat gravity dependent e.g. It relied on the aircraft being (mostly) horizontal. In a dive there is such a sudden change in velocity and direction that it becomes totally confused. (Totally! Like, fer sure!) Kinda like the levels you buy at Home Depot with the little bubble inside the glass tube.

I will, however, admit to kicking the rudder early in the dive if I find myself way off target. I mean, it's not like you have forever to line yourself up! Well, you do in the Val but that's another bird. But once my speed is up it's feet off!

And yes, you should cut throttle before the dive. Some pilots like to cut the throttle just before rollover or just after.

But don't over complicate things. Dive bombing is just like everything else...it takes practice. For me...the hardest part about dive bombing is making sure I'm directly over the target so that I come down as close to vertical as possible (I really wish I could zoom in closer on that little window in the floor...hmmm...I think I'm gonna experiment with that...)

If you can find the target and rollover at the correct time then everything else is just practice, practice, practice. Speaking of practice there's a pretty good dive bombing guide at airwarfare.com.

http://www.airwarfare.com/guides/pf_divebombing.htm

It's for the Val (another beautiful bird) but the basic technique is the same. (Hmmm...just noticed there wasn't a guide for the SBD...well, I know what I'm doing after I finish the B-25 guide! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif)

S!

BSS_Goat
06-19-2006, 09:08 AM
IRL You should also open your canopy.....the sudden descent from high alt will fog you up.

leitmotiv
06-19-2006, 09:27 AM
All I'd add to the above is to do like the real SBD pilots and drop your wings periodically for a good look as you approach your target. The real SBD pilots in the USN dived against the wind to avoid over-shooting their targets. Since you can't do as they did: judge the wind direction by studying the whitecaps, you have to hope you are in a good position regarding the wind. In my successful dive I gloated about above, I was spun around 90 degrees just as I was about to drop my bomb. I had to make a quick change of plan and drop (1) from the side of the carrier, and (2) drop perilously low (I had set my delay outrageously long---10 seconds to compensate for my penchant for low drops!)---I pulled out right above the water so this was a "God is my co-pilot" run! Two things: (1) when attacking ships, avoid at all costs making your attack from the bow or the sides---unless you are part of an "anvil" attack intended to hit the ship simultaneously from all points of the compass (if we had maneuvering ships in PF, this would be a good tactic), and (2) never set your bombs for contact explosions or you will blow yourself up! I use 10 seconds just to be on the safe side. For 1942 your ideal load-out should be the 1000 pounder unless you are a scout---they carried 500 pounders. Oleg didn't say which flavor of 1000 pounder he gave the SBD---AP, SAP, or GP. Historically, the AP was not available until 1943, lucky for the Japanese. Oleg allows the SBD to carry the ultra-deadly 1600 pound AP bomb---I believe these were only carried by Avengers or Helldivers, but I am not sure. Ju 88 manual for dive attacks: close cowl flaps, chop throttle, and drop airbrakes. Yes, indeed, best to be in neutral trim. Immediately put your eye to that telescopic sight if you are flying the -3, and use elevators and ailerons to stay on target right in the center of the ship (and hope the wind doesn't throw you around). Don't despair if you near-miss the ship---historically the "mining-effect" of a near-miss could do nearly as much damage as a direct hit.

Correct you are about the brand new Trumpeter SBD, I450IVex---it is the -1/2, the -3 is coming next, it's not released yet.

zoinks_
06-19-2006, 09:37 AM
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/zoinks_/vic1.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/zoinks_/formation4.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/zoinks_/formation5.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/zoinks_/formation3.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/zoinks_/vic2.jpg

VF51_Flatspin
06-19-2006, 09:48 AM
Oh Yeah! I love this plane! I think...even more than my beloved IL-2 (but don't tell her!). http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Crash_Moses
06-19-2006, 11:33 AM
Leitmotiv - I love that telescopic sight. I prefer to fly the SBD-3 just for that reason.

Zoinks - now I have goose bumps... Those look like skins from Wings over Waves...am I right? (though I prefer USMC sloppy gray personally http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif)

zoinks_
06-19-2006, 11:43 AM
Vigilante at simmerspaintshop.

leitmotiv
06-19-2006, 12:21 PM
Definitely, Crash_Moses---that telescophic sight is a real challenge. I just tried the Val with the Brown settings and found her harder hit by the new regime than the Speedy D. Real sluggish in the lateral axis. To me the Val used to float down with default settings but now she has to be firmly directed. She still takes forever---as I understand from Peter Smith's Crowood Val book, the real Val pilots preferred steep dives to vertical dives---maybe this was to try to shorten the exposure to brutal USN AA? Cheers, Got the Chop This Time

Crash_Moses
06-19-2006, 05:24 PM
No kidding? To be honest I've only flown the B-25 since I changed settings and it handles pretty much like I would have expected (keeping in mind that my actual stick time has been limited to a few hours in a Cessna...and that was years ago).

Wow...maybe I better start practicing...ya know...I gots a reputation to protect (as a smart alec!). I could hit a tin can at 700 meters with the Val...curse you Capt. Brown!

J_Weaver
06-19-2006, 08:16 PM
Ah, the SBD. One of my favorite birds for sure!

Speaking of the SBD, has anyone seen "A Wing and a Prayer"? As I recall its about the SBD.

leitmotiv
06-19-2006, 08:55 PM
Good luck, Crash_Moses! I'm going to have to work on the Val to get back my "Valmanship." Destroyer slayer? Now that is really bombing! I prefer the 1941 overall gray, too. I have a TBD model I keep threatening to do that way. I've tried zooming on my SBD's belly window and the thing, to me, is less useful than just dipping my wings.

I've seen A WING AND A PRAYER many a time, J_Weaver---Don Ameche and Dana Andrews---alas, its a Turkey film---they fly TBF Avengers, not Dauntli. What this country needs is a great Midway film with the Dauntless pilots and Dauntlesses as the centerpiece. Boggles my brain its never been done except for the on-the-cheap '70's MIDWAY.

Siwarrior
06-19-2006, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by sledgehammer2:
Hold on a sec guys.... take me back to basics here. What is proper dive bombing procedure? Aren't you supposed to cut the throttle first?

Why am I showing needle and ball off-center as I dive? You said zero the trim, what do you mean? The only trim I use is elevator and I have that mapped to the button that is on the Sidewinder stick that was designed for throttle. I use a CH throttle and pedals.

i actually use about 6-7clicks of the trim to center the ball, increasing as you go faster..........
seems to work for me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

leitmotiv
06-20-2006, 02:16 AM
Er, I have a question about "Straight Down"---into which folder do I place it?

Crash_Moses
06-20-2006, 06:16 AM
missions/campaign/un

I'm pretty sure. Almost positive. The odds are in my favor. Cross yer fingers. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Crash_Moses
06-20-2006, 08:11 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Good luck, Crash_Moses! I'm going to have to work on the Val to get back my "Valmanship." Destroyer slayer? Now that is really bombing! I prefer the 1941 overall gray, too. I have a TBD model I keep threatening to do that way. I've tried zooming on my SBD's belly window and the thing, to me, is less useful than just dipping my wings.

I've seen A WING AND A PRAYER many a time, J_Weaver---Don Ameche and Dana Andrews---alas, its a Turkey film---they fly TBF Avengers, not Dauntli. What this country needs is a great Midway film with the Dauntless pilots and Dauntlesses as the centerpiece. Boggles my brain its never been done except for the on-the-cheap '70's MIDWAY.

Well, I managed to ditch the Admiral and snuck on down to the flight line. Mechanics had a plane they needed flight tested so I hopped on over to the bombing range with her. Holy Wah! Capt. Brown's settings make a huge difference. I made about 10 or 15 drops from 20,000ft (gives me a little more time to adjust) and hit every time but I found myself "chasing" the target quite a bit. (Tried zooming in on the little window too...couldn't see a dang thing...lol.)

Out of frustration I tried using a little rudder which helped keep me on target but my accuracy went out the window (still hit the target but off to the right...not dead on). Zeroing my trim helped significantly. Gonna hafta practice a bit more...I think from 10,000ft tonight. And I think I'll play with the rudder trim a little to see what happens...

I've been working on this for the last few months (a few hours here and there...when I get a chance). It's by Accurate Miniatures and is very detailed. One of the best kits out there IMHO. My only complaint is that I wish they had a larger version. When I finish I think I'm going to grab Guillow's balsa SBD and finish it for static display.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y125/Crash_Moses/AccurateMiniaturesSBD-2.jpg

Would love to see a historically accurate portrayal of the Midway battle (with a smidgeon of Hollywood artistic license to help boost sales of course). And you know that with today's computer animation there would be no excuse for innacurate aircraft depiction.

S!

Yellonet
06-20-2006, 08:15 AM
I like the SBD... It's the feeling of being slow, underpowered and outgunned that I really like... It just feels great when you get away in one peice http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

J_Weaver
06-20-2006, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
I've seen A WING AND A PRAYER many a time, J_Weaver---Don Ameche and Dana Andrews---alas, its a Turkey film---they fly TBF Avengers, not Dauntli. What this country needs is a great Midway film with the Dauntless pilots and Dauntlesses as the centerpiece. Boggles my brain its never been done except for the on-the-cheap '70's MIDWAY.

Ah, thanks, its been so long since I've seen that movie I could remember. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

leitmotiv
06-20-2006, 04:03 PM
That did the trick, Crash_Moses, thanks much! Nice choice re AM 1:48 SBD. I intend to do Best's AKAGI slayer from Midway or one of the SHOKAKU wreckers from Santa Cruz with my AM -3. Am very interested in forthcoming Trumpeter 1:32 TBD---my mind boggles at the prospect. Never thought I'd ever see a big one of those! Grieving we never got a TBD or Kate for PAC FIGHTERS, but, oh well. Tried Val again this morning and did better---much better---don't know if I hit VICTORIOUS because I suffered a rare crash just as I was doing the track save (##!!!!##!!!). Once again I had to chase the carrier in a shallow dive because I forgot what a slow dive you have in the Val. Took hits in recovery from dive, went straight to deck, ran like crazy, survived about three Wildcat interventions (and probably nicked one or two as they buzzed by), found AKAGI, was having a routine approach when I discovered my flaps had been damaged---I was climbing not slowing!, raised flaps, blew by the island, took me three tries to get lined up just right, threw on dive brakes just as I hit the flight deck, sheered off l.g., spun around 180 degrees, and ended up in the middle of the flight deck but alive. I would have enjoyed seeing that track, if anything just because that was the luckiest Val in creation!

Zeus-cat
06-20-2006, 04:08 PM
As Crash_Moses said, "Straight Down" goes into the Missions/Camapign/UN folder. Hope you like it.

leitmotiv
06-20-2006, 04:19 PM
Thanks, Zeus_cat---tried one mission this morning and was well pleased! Can't wait to have a shot at a carrier. Would you be interested in a Val campaign? Something like the Indian Ocean raid, Coral Sea, Midway, Eastern Solomons, and Santa Cruz? The brawl between the Vals and the Wildcats defending the YORKTOWN with the Vals pulling fighter maneuvers while toting their bombs is a naval epic! And they still managed to hammer the YORK---what a mission!

Zeus-cat
06-20-2006, 05:25 PM
Would you be interested in a Val campaign? Something like the Indian Ocean raid, Coral Sea, Midway, Eastern Solomons, and Santa Cruz?

I don't think so. I've done two Japanese campaigns now and a total of 4 campaigns for all nations. I will finish "Straight Down Some More" for my 5th camaign. Then I'll decide if I will do any more campaigns or not. If I do, "Straight Down for the Last Time" would be a 45-mission finale to the SBD or I might switch to a Bf-110 campaign, salvaging the He-111 campaign idea I came up with.

leitmotiv
06-20-2006, 06:31 PM
110 Would be great!

sledgehammer2
06-20-2006, 06:52 PM
I started Straight Down last night... looks good.

I450IVex
06-21-2006, 04:11 AM
my little Dauntless..

template is jesters.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/Nezbit/Pacific%20Fighters/Allied/Il2FB2006-06-2119-59-08-76.jpg
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

AVGWarhawk
06-21-2006, 02:39 PM
I make coops with the plane. When I test and tweek the campaign, I sit in the tail gunner seat. That is a fun ride, not to mention there is no AI cheat as you have AI flying the plane. The only thing that sucks is the AI pilot will land the plan if the engine starts to sputter.

Zeus-cat
06-21-2006, 06:03 PM
I make coops with the plane. When I test and tweek the campaign, I sit in the tail gunner seat. That is a fun ride, not to mention there is no AI cheat as you have AI flying the plane. The only thing that sucks is the AI pilot will land the plan if the engine starts to sputter.

Someone should make a rear gunner campaign. I think you could make it work. You wouldn't need the plane to land. A number of good planes to choose from: the IL-2, the SBDs, or Val qould be good choices.

AVGWarhawk
06-23-2006, 01:17 PM
Well, last night I was in the back seat and my pilot was killed by flak. I kind of noticed the plane was just cruising along and passed beyond the IP for bombing. What really sucked was I could not climb out on the wing and throw his body out of the pilot seat so I could go home. I just kept going with the plane until it sputtered out of fuel. Jumped into the big blue Pacific. But, yeah, the rear gunner club would be cool.

leitmotiv
06-24-2006, 12:18 AM
Unique feat: Japanese Val team, pilot: Furuta and airplane commander/backseater: Arima of the SHOKAKU, hit ENTERPRISE in both the Eastern Solomons battle in August 1942 and in the Santa Cruz battle of October 1942---each time through brutal USN AA and through ENTERPRISE's new 40mm Bofors quad mount fire in the latter battle. Found this while grazing in Lundstrom's excellent THE FIRST TEAM AND THE GUADALCANAL CAMPAIGN, pages 136 and 415.

dlg26
06-24-2006, 06:56 AM
I like the SBD, I like the "Straight Down Campaign" the first mission is a dive bomb practice run then land on carrier (take off from land base), another good reason for setting bomb delay at 10 sec is hit ctrl+F2 and the static camera will show you how close to target you got. Question, do you hit the air brake on dive? Also what or where is the bomb sight mentioned in thread ~S~
Rick http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

leitmotiv
06-24-2006, 07:15 AM
Neutral trim, close cowl flaps, throttle all the way back, deploy dive brakes, either roll over on your back and plunge on your target, or put your nose down and dive. I have reassigned the command for telescopic sight view---maybe somebody else can give it to you. Try to get right over your target before you dive or, if it is a ship, you will be chasing it, and your dive will be shallow, and you will be a splendid target. As Crash_Moses noted above, try to avoid using rudder pedals to adjust your aim---just use your stick. Some think trim can be used to refine your targeting. Good Luck!

Crash_Moses
06-24-2006, 07:44 AM
The command is Toggle Gunsight. Default is Shift+F1. Only works on the SBD-3 though. On the SBD-5 you'll have to just zoom in on the target reticle.

I like to keep my delay at 0 for dive bombing. Teaches you to release at a higher altitude. If you set up a practice mission over land you can still check your accuracy as the bomb crater graphic will stick around a while. I'd be worried that a 10 sec. delay would result in little or no damage to the ship. Sunk anything? Hmmm...something else to experiment with... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S!

Zeus-cat
06-24-2006, 09:08 AM
I would only use a bomb delay against a target that isn't moving. If I do use a delay in an SBD, I would never go more than 2 seconds. You simply don't need anything higher than that as your bombs just don't warrant it.

Crash_Moses
06-24-2006, 09:54 AM
Well, just spent a bit experimenting and sunk a fishing boat and a destroyer with a ten second delay (several times). However, with a 0 second delay I sunk the destroyer almost every time. Maybe half the time with the ten second delay.

Also, I may have to rescind my advice against using the rudder. I was having a hard time hitting the destroyer at first but I noticed the bombs landed ahead and not to either side. Changed my approach 180 degrees and started hitting dead on. Switched the destroyer back to a fishing boat and still hit, no problems, using rudder to keep me centered. (Still had to neutral trim.) I have a pretty spiffy track with a release at 1700 ft. if anyone wants to see it.

I have to admit that since the last few patches I've spent most of my time in the PBJ (except on-line where I prefer to skip bomb with the SBD) so maybe something has changed with the flight model. Or perhaps...equally possible...I've just been talking out my butt this whole time. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S!

dlg26
06-24-2006, 11:03 AM
Roger, thanks for input guys! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

leitmotiv
06-24-2006, 06:05 PM
To be absolutey frank, I believe the standard delay used on USN SAP and GP bombs when attacking ships was only like 1/100 of a second, but I was blown up too many times by my own bomb so, out of laziness, I've been cheating. I believe the calculation was to try to achieve an airburst inside the hangar, which was believed would cause the most damage. In the real world ten seconds delay would mean a near-miss in the water would go off too deep to mine the ship's hull or the bomb may pass right through a destroyer or merchant ship without bursting. I am going to go to no delay and starting earning my hits.

Crash_Moses
06-24-2006, 08:11 PM
Yup. Only time I set a delay now is while skip bombing (and as soon as I perfect that it will be bye bye delay).http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I try to release the bombs as high as possible (and still be accurate of course). Makes it easier to get away and...if applicable...get to cloud cover for my getaway.

leitmotiv
06-24-2006, 09:06 PM
You are doing the good and brave thing---I'm a yellow running dog. Woof woof.

Crash_Moses
06-24-2006, 09:47 PM
lol...well, I wouldn't call flying around in a slow, less than agile bomber cowardice.

Now fighter jocks on the other hand...

What a bunch of chickens. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

idonno
06-25-2006, 06:14 AM
Originally posted by Crash_Moses:
lol...well, I wouldn't call flying around in a slow, less than agile bomber cowardice.

Now fighter jocks on the other hand...

What a bunch of chickens. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Oviously you've never faced the prospect of going up against the over-modled lethality of the SBD's tail gun in a Zeke! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Given the choice, I'd sooner attack a whole squadron of enemy fighters rather than a lone SBD!

Speedfellow
06-25-2006, 07:53 AM
" over-modled lethality of the SBD's tail gun "

LOL !!! 95% of the time Im shot down before my rear gunner's killed a Zeke. However If I jump in the rear gunner position I have alot better chance hardly seems over modelled to me

idonno
06-25-2006, 08:19 AM
Originally posted by Speedfellow:
" over-modled lethality of the SBD's tail gun "

LOL !!! 95% of the time Im shot down before my rear gunner's killed a Zeke. However If I jump in the rear gunner position I have alot better chance hardly seems over modelled to me

That just means that the AI gunners suck, but I have often said; if attacking SBD's was as dangerous in real life as it is in PF, they would have used them to escort the fighters instead of the other way around.

Crash_Moses
06-25-2006, 09:46 AM
lol...which brings us to tactics. It's easy to hit a plane that just sits on yer six. Then it's just a matter of who disintigrates first.

Attack from below and it's very hard for the rear gunner to get ya. B&Z tactics can work well too (as idonno demonstrated last night. Almost got me too!)

But don't despair SBD pilots. If I suspect an attack from below I'll go into a slight (very slight) dive to build up speed and at the last second pull up just enough to reveal the lurker below.

There are always counter measure. And counter measures for the counter measures. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

sledgehammer2
06-25-2006, 08:47 PM
OK, here is a question... why is it that sometimes my bombs just disappear istead of dropping from the plane and hitting the target? Has anyone ever seen that happen? I'll be in the dive, get to release altitude and hit the button. I will not be aware of any explosion and when I go back to watch the quick track I see that the bomb simply disappeared and never dropped.

Crash_Moses
06-25-2006, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by sledgehammer2:
OK, here is a question... why is it that sometimes my bombs just disappear istead of dropping from the plane and hitting the target? Has anyone ever seen that happen? I'll be in the dive, get to release altitude and hit the button. I will not be aware of any explosion and when I go back to watch the quick track I see that the bomb simply disappeared and never dropped.

Holy wah! That just happened to me yesterday for the first time (first time I noticed it anyway). However, despite the lack of explosion I did see the circular blast wave and I sunk the ship. If you can, go back and look at your target from above and see if you can see the blast wave.

Regardless, it's obviously one of those minor hard to exterminate bugs. Only thing to do is post in Oleg's Ready Room and see if gets fixed in one of the add-ons.

WTE_Googly
06-25-2006, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by idonno:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Speedfellow:
" over-modled lethality of the SBD's tail gun "

LOL !!! 95% of the time Im shot down before my rear gunner's killed a Zeke. However If I jump in the rear gunner position I have alot better chance hardly seems over modelled to me

That just means that the AI gunners suck, but I have often said; if attacking SBD's was as dangerous in real life as it is in PF, they would have used them to escort the fighters instead of the other way around. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Part of it has to do with the fruitcakes who just sit in a prime position to be shot at http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif I fly many other bombers such as the Ju-87 and He-111 and it is the same with those aircraft too, so it is not the overmodelled guns, it is the undermodelled person in the fighter http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

In fact I taught myself gunnery by going onto a icons on server on UBI.com, announcing my presence as a bomber, and waiting for the conga line to appear behind me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

It's not so bad on hyperlobby, but some people still just attack bombers by flying up next to a gun saying "shoot me"

The SBD is by far my favourite aircraft, accurate bomber, and isn't too bad when enemy aircraft have a crack at you.

leitmotiv
06-26-2006, 04:45 AM
My proudest moment flying the A6M2 was in undermining the justifiably lethal twin .30 kit on the Dauntli. How did I do it? Just the way real Zero pilots and Wildcat pilots dealt with rear gunners---a scorching high side attack which denies any gunner retaliation because the rate of range change is impossible to calculate. I did a bastardized version but it worked all the same. I dived down on the SBD from its starboard side out of range, swooped under it at a fast clip, suddenly appeared between his port wing and tail in a right bank---boom boom at point-blank range, and, like a ghost, disappeared under his tail sliding down still in a right bank. The SBD was rendered hors by the point-blank cannon fire. This, or like variations, is how you deal with rear gunners. By the way, if I ever tried to repeat that wild maneuver, I'd probably screw up completely.

JG53Frankyboy
06-26-2006, 05:51 AM
Originally posted by Zeus-cat:
I would only use a bomb delay against a target that isn't moving. If I do use a delay in an SBD, I would never go more than 2 seconds. You simply don't need anything higher than that as your bombs just don't warrant it.

skipbomb with only 2sec delay can be dangerous for yourself doing it in a Ju88 with SC2000 bombs http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Crash_Moses
06-26-2006, 06:49 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
My proudest moment flying the A6M2 was in undermining the justifiably letal twin .30 kit on the Dauntli. How did I do it? Just the way real Zero pilots and Wildcat pilots dealt with rear gunners---a scorching high side attack which denies any gunner retaliation because the rate of range change is impossible to calculate. I did a bastardized version but it worked all the same. I dived down on the SBD from its starboard side out of range, swooped under it at a fast clip, suddenly appeared between his port wing and tail in a right bank---boom boom at point-blank range, and, like a ghost, disappeared under his tail sliding down still in a right bank. The SBD was rendered hors by the point-blank cannon fire. This, or like variations, is how you deal with rear gunners. By the way, if I ever tried to repeat that wild maneuver, I'd probably screw up completely.

Dang! Why you gotta tell everybody?

Poop! Now we gotta start flying in formation again... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Crash_Moses
06-26-2006, 06:51 AM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Zeus-cat:
I would only use a bomb delay against a target that isn't moving. If I do use a delay in an SBD, I would never go more than 2 seconds. You simply don't need anything higher than that as your bombs just don't warrant it.

skipbomb with only 2sec delay can be dangerous for yourself doing it in a Ju88 with SC2000 bombs http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hellooooo....SBD thread. The Ju88 thread is over yonder in the "other" forum. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

S! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

idonno
06-26-2006, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by WTE_Googly:

Part of it has to do with the fruitcakes who just sit in a prime position to be shot at http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif I fly many other bombers such as the Ju-87 and He-111 and it is the same with those aircraft too, so it is not the overmodelled guns, it is the undermodelled person in the fighter http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



I wasn't aware that you were following me around, observing my tactics every time I fly.

It never fails. Anytime you charge that something is not right, somebody comes along who has never flown with or against you and tells you how you€re doing it all wrong. Well you, like all the rest of your kind have no idea what you€re talking about. I do not "just sit in a prime position to be shot at." I've been doing this for some eight years, and I've shot down my share of bombers. I'm not the clueless idiot you suppose.



Originally posted by leitmotiv:

My proudest moment flying the A6M2 was in undermining the justifiably letal twin .30 kit on the Dauntli.


Yes, twin .30€s are so very lethal. Which explains the great success of the Boulton Paul Defiant. Oh wait. That airplane was a flop wasn€t it? But come to think of it, the Defiant didn€t have 2 .30€s firing to the rear, it had 4 of them, and it was still a death trap!

There is a reason why bombers flew in tight formations and needed escorts in order to have a reasonable chance of surviving. As long as lone bombers can have the kind of success they currently enjoy, we will never have historically accurate air combat. And trust me, if that day ever comes, you will still see me in a bomber from time to time. I just won't be alone. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

leitmotiv
06-26-2006, 08:49 AM
Well, Crash_Moses, high side attacks are hard and a lot of people like to go mano a mano with those bad-tempered Aviation Machinists in the back seats, so I think the SBD community will continue to prosper! Came across a classic anecdote in THE FIRST TEAM the other day---F4Fs went after Bettys. Bettys got the chop bigtime from high side attacks. One F4F pilot got impatient and went right up a Betty's six and got his engine blown out instantly!

Er, the Deffies got creamed when they were ganged, Idonno. Anyway, a Dauntless had two .50 nose guns which rendered it a little porcupine. Put a team of canny Zeroes on one and they would have simultaneously hit it from each side and blown it to bits.

Duff4r
06-26-2006, 09:24 AM
idonno,

You're right about one thing and that's your handle. Get outta that Zeke and into the SBD and fly it for a month. You won't be saying what you're saying. Make sure you spend some time in the servers with "Wonder Woman" view. LOL!

The life of a PF SBD pilot can be very rewarding BUT IS ALWAYS....short!

I trim my SBD for attack. If you are going to attack me you won't be dealing with the AI. You'll be taking me on. To win, you'd better damn well know what you're doing. Wanna try http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JG53Frankyboy
06-26-2006, 01:22 PM
the lethal point of the SBD rearguns are thier wide angle of use , at least human manned !

no D3A or Ju87 can move thier guns such wide.


btw, in COOPs with SBDs manned at both positions its the most fun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Crash_Moses
06-26-2006, 01:22 PM
lol...now, now, lads. Let's keep this civil. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I don't think Googly was picking on you in particular, idonno...just making an observation in general.

And if not, well...I like to ride in the back too and I can attest that idonno definitely knows how to tackle a bomber...

And despite Duff4rs' tongue-in-cheek remarks he's right about the life expectency of an SBD pilot. I wish I enjoyed some of the SBDs' lethality...lol. As it is, if I can make it to the target and deliver my package before crashing I consider the mission a success. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

S!

leitmotiv
06-26-2006, 06:50 PM
The USN gun ring was a smart design. Nearly everybody had given up the WWI Scarff ring by the end of the '30's---a 360 degree play gun ring (and its German equivalent). The Ju 87 had an unclever gun in a beetle's eye, and the Japanese Navy light stike aircraft used a U-shape contraption with nearly no play to the sides. My experience of Dauntli rear gunners has been off-line and I have been forced to high side them or get fried in my A6M.

Siwarrior
06-26-2006, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by sledgehammer2:
Hold on a sec guys.... take me back to basics here. What is proper dive bombing procedure? Aren't you supposed to cut the throttle first?

Why am I showing needle and ball off-center as I dive? You said zero the trim, what do you mean? The only trim I use is elevator and I have that mapped to the button that is on the Sidewinder stick that was designed for throttle. I use a CH throttle and pedals.
im not sure about entering a dive but sbds didn't actually dive vertically it was more like 70degrees.........that may help in some way

Siwarrior
06-26-2006, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by BirdieNum-nums:
A great plane, the SBD. Beautifully modelled, neutral and predictable handling and you gotta love the twin fifties in the back!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

I love luring Zekes and making mince meat out of them. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif Great fun!

But the most fun, is getting 4 or 5 of these puppies in formation and going to town on an enemy carrier, dive bombing one after the other, just like they did it historically. Brilliant!!

Cheers,
Birdie Num-nums

twin 7.62mms actually.........

Prairie_Falcon
06-26-2006, 07:46 PM
Here is an evening SBD Mission if you like.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/50910533/m/2231096514

leitmotiv
06-26-2006, 11:12 PM
I like picturesque missions---this one is pure Ruskin! Congratulations---very imaginative!

WTE_Googly
06-27-2006, 12:34 AM
Originally posted by idonno:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Googly:

Part of it has to do with the fruitcakes who just sit in a prime position to be shot at http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif I fly many other bombers such as the Ju-87 and He-111 and it is the same with those aircraft too, so it is not the overmodelled guns, it is the undermodelled person in the fighter http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



I wasn't aware that you were following me around, observing my tactics every time I fly.

It never fails. Anytime you charge that something is not right, somebody comes along who has never flown with or against you and tells you how you€re doing it all wrong. Well you, like all the rest of your kind have no idea what you€re talking about. I do not "just sit in a prime position to be shot at." I've been doing this for some eight years, and I've shot down my share of bombers. I'm not the clueless idiot you suppose.



Originally posted by leitmotiv:

My proudest moment flying the A6M2 was in undermining the justifiably letal twin .30 kit on the Dauntli.


Yes, twin .30€s are so very lethal. Which explains the great success of the Boulton Paul Defiant. Oh wait. That airplane was a flop wasn€t it? But come to think of it, the Defiant didn€t have 2 .30€s firing to the rear, it had 4 of them, and it was still a death trap!

There is a reason why bombers flew in tight formations and needed escorts in order to have a reasonable chance of surviving. As long as lone bombers can have the kind of success they currently enjoy, we will never have historically accurate air combat. And trust me, if that day ever comes, you will still see me in a bomber from time to time. I just won't be alone. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wasn't having a go at you mate, I probably should have worded it better, just I had a few drinks before, and this don't quite tend to come out right http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif it's just that people who try to give the hardest shots for the gunners tend to get away scot free with a kill, and those you just give you a sitter tend to go down very fast.

I never called you a clueless idiot, I would never do that especially as I have never seen you fly, I was making the point that many people will start shooting at you from a position where they just sit still in your crosshairs.

I think the only problem with the guns would be the extra long bursts one is allowed to fire, would modelling gun jams fix this area?

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Crash_Moses
06-28-2006, 10:53 AM
I'm sure many of you have seen these sites but for those who haven't here are some interesting websites with information on the Dauntless:

Interview with Walter Krupinski - Dive Bomber at Midway (http://www.tarrif.net/wwii/interviews/milford_merrill.htm)

Flying the Dauntless by Dave Hirschman (http://www.dixiewing.org/aircraft/sbd/Hirschman_SBD_article.htm) (a unique perspective from a modern pilot on flying one of the last remaining flyable SBDs)

SBD Checkout by J.B. Stokley (http://www.dixiewing.org/aircraft/sbd/SBD%20Checkout.htm) (another perspective from a different pilot on the same aircraft).

Both of the articles above contain manifold pressure and rpm settings for different aspects of flight (take-off, climb, cruise, and landing). I'm gonna try 'em out as soon as I get home! (shhh...I'm at work... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif)

S!

Crash_Moses
06-28-2006, 11:26 AM
Leitmotiv,

I recall you mentioning that you did your graduate work in history and spent several years in London. I've run across the titles of several books by a gentleman named Peter C. Smith. He's an English author and seems to have written excessively about dive bombers.

However, most of his titles are out of print and rare and/or expensive here in the States (you can find a list here...of the books, not the States. I have a list of those too, though...) http://www.dive-bombers.co.uk/DiveBomber.htm

I've managed to track down a copy of Impact! The Dive Bomber Pilot Speaks and Douglas SBD Dauntless from a used bookstore on this side of the pond and a dealer in the UK.

There are a couple of other volumes on the Val and Captain Takashige Egusa that I'm also interested in. Are you familiar with the author, and if so, is it worth going through the trouble of tracking down these titles?

Thanks! S!

leitmotiv
06-29-2006, 03:11 AM
Crash_Moses---Re Peter Smith:

I have his book on the Val and my local library bought his books for years. Unfortunately, most have been stolen so I can't go back to look at them. He had a lot of help from Japanese sources on the Val book. As far as I know, it is the best book on Japanese dive bombing tactics in English there is. There are good eye-witness accounts by Val pilots and very revealing combat reports by Allied naval officers who came under attack by Vals. All in all, it is a must for dive bombing nuts such as we! On the other hand, I don't think it is quite worth its price. If you can find a slightly bent copy using abebooks.com, alibris.com, or an Amazon vendor, buy it that way. If they are asking 100 bucks for it, forget it. As far as I have found, the best two books on American and Japanese dive bombing tactics in the four great carrier battles of 1942 are Lundstom's THE FIRST TEAM and THE FIRST TEAM AND THE GUADALCANAL CAMPAIGN. They are not dedicated books on dive bombing and torpedo bombing, they are about USN fighter tactics, but in the process of describing the battles Lundstrom goes into bomber tactics and weaponry in greater detail than anybody else. His information on the Val and Kate missions is superb. He plots individual aircraft runs on the USN ships, bomb types used, etc. The brand new SHATTERED SWORD on Midway is mind-boggling. The level of detail is incredible, and the authors did their homework. That book is a must have for the Dauntless attacks on the Japanese CVs and for the detail on the Japanese attacks on YORKTOWN. It explains in more detail how the Japanese disaster occured than any other book in English. Did you know that when the ENTERPRISE and YORKTOWN SBDs struck the Japanese carriers still had their strike aircraft in the hangars? Right, the old story about the attack happening just as the launches were starting was inaccurate. The hangared aircraft doomed the carriers because the U.S. 1000 pounders burst right below the flight decks wreaking havoc on the fueled and bombed-up aircraft. The carriers likely would have survived if the aircraft had been on the flight decks.

As for his new books on the SB2C and the Pe-2 for Crowood, I have not seen them. The Crowood series is a mixed bag. Their volume on the British turret fighters (recommended by a poster on this forum and I bought it) is absolutely excellent with much new information and well researched. Some, like the Ju 88 volume, are pure hackwork---no sources worth a hang, just a repeat of the usual ancient secondary sources. From my experience of Smith, I believe he started with books on the Ju 87 in the '70's. He wrote a general book on dive bombers which the local library had which was not terribly helpful. What I would suggest would be to go to a big city bookstore and take a look at the Smith books. If he did some homework, they may be fine. The Crowoods are a bit expensive to get stuck with them if they are duds. Of course you can always order them from Amazon. They don't freak if you return books, and you'll likely get the best rate. As for the very oldest Smith books on dive bombing, I would not bother because the brush he used was too broad and he didn't do a lot of research.

Good luck!

P.S. Search Amazon for FIST FROM THE SKY by Peter C. Smith. To be published in October. I suspect this is a biography of Eugusa who led the second-wave Vals at Pearl Harbor. There is a goodly amount on Egusa in his Val book. Sometime this year Osprey is slated to publish a slim volume on the Val units by the same Japanese author who did their brilliant volume on the Betty units (well worth getting---one of the most fascinating and depressing stories I've ever read---Mitsubishi warned the IJN the Betty would be a death-trap early in the design stage---it was apparent the airplane was doomed after O'Hara massacred so many while protecting LEX---from then onwards it was a nightmare). If you can read French (or even if you can't, like I) the following is a must (it is already a classic, I suspect it is going to be translated into English---the captions, at least, are in English):

SAMOURAI SUR PORTE-AVIONS. Michel Ledet. Editions Lela Presse, 2006. ISBN: 2-914017-32-4

It appears to be a French translation of many of those hideously expensive Japanese publications found in better hobby shops. I wonder if it is authorized? It uses diagrams and general arrangement drawings of aircraft and ships found in the Japanese publications. It is a comprehensive history of Japanese carrier operations from the China Incident until the end of WWII. Hundreds of photos and a good selection of aircraft illustrations in color. If you have a 1:48 Hasegawa Val or Kate, it's the ticket for you.

I have to admit that I will buy Smith's book on the Skua to come out this Oct sight unseen because I am crazy about the airplane and the odds of anyone else writing a Skua history are miniscule. As for his books about the SBD and SB2C---? Dunno. I'd want to see them before I buy. Who knows?, maybe they are superb!

Crash_Moses
06-29-2006, 09:26 AM
Outstanding! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Somehow I knew you'd be the guy to ask.

I'm currently burrowing through Churchill's History of World War II and am in desperate need of some "light" reading.

I'll be checking out all of the above for sure. Thanks!

S!

leitmotiv
06-29-2006, 10:24 AM
I should have mentioned THE FIRST TEAM books were well-leavened with Japanese sources. Lundstrum wrote an excellent article in TAILHOOK magazine in, I think, 1989 about the use of SBDs in the Coral Sea battle as torpedo CAP planes to support the few F4Fs carried on CVs at the time. He follows the fortunes of all the Kates, and Zeros, and Dauntli which got fearsomely entangled in the melee. Suffice to say, the experience terminated the Dauntless' brief as a fighter stand-in! BROKEN SWORD was entirely written with the latest Japanese sources on Midway---this baby ain't light reading---unless you've been reading Hegel! I read about 2/3rds of it around last Christmas and it exhausted me so I have still to finish it. But, let me tell you, it's worth it because your view of Midway will likely change from reading it. The authors led me to some excellent VT Squadron books which clarified so much of the VT disaster at Midway. The truth is now out about the insufferable HORNET CAG who caused the whole CV-8 SBD strike to go awry while Waldron drove on the carriers alone. In sum, we were saved by a small group of determined Dauntless pilots from ENTERPRISE and YORTOWN who arrived just at exactly the right time to deliver hits which would fatally damage all the Japanese CVs. A little later and maybe they wouldn't have rolled snake eyes. The authors blame the defeat on Japanese folly, but, more directly on their lack of early-warning radar and any kind of fighter direction system.

Crash_Moses
06-29-2006, 02:13 PM
Well, after checking out the links you sent (again...thanks!) I decided to see what kind of prices the U.S. Amazon site had for Aichi D3A. They had it for $31.47 AND, in one of their "goes together with" promos, included Shattered Sword for $22.05. Sooo, I purchased both for a measly $53.52 which also qualified me for Super Saver Shipping (wahoo!).

So, I'm looking forward to digging into both. Can't be any worse than Churchill (at least I hope not!). Besides, I find as I get older it's easier to digest this stuff. Got some time off coming up so I'm going to grab my yellow highlighter and my favorite green pen, curl up somewhere quiet, and (as long as there is plenty of room in the margins) just relaaaaxxxx.

I went ahead and purchased Impact! and Douglas SBD Dauntless. Found a nice copy of the former for $14 from a used bookstore down South and the latter (which I believe is a Crowood) I found new on e-Bay from a UK bookseller for a mighty reasonable $30 USD(which included shipping). If either turns out to be a stinker I won't be out much. (Return a book? Never! I'd sooner eat them...for the fiber. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

Boy...I wish there was this much material on the PBJ Squadrons...

S!

leitmotiv
06-29-2006, 07:47 PM
Let me know about IMPACT and the SBD book---heh heh---now that you are doing the reviewing job for me! If they are any good I'll buy, too! I seem to recall there was some book about the PBJ somewhere. I'll let you know if I find anything. By the way, there is a real gem of a SBD publication written in English by a Spanish pilot and published in Spain!

SBD-3 DAUNTLESS AND THE BATTLE OF MIDWAY. Daniel V. Hernandez. Aeronaval Publishing, Torrent (Spain), 2003. ISBN: 84-932963-0-9

http://tinyurl.com/p898n

I accidentally Googled into to it while pulling my fishing net through hyperspace for SBD info last winter. Bought it and am completely satisfied.

Crash_Moses
06-29-2006, 09:51 PM
lol...you are a font of reading wealth!

I've only been able to find two books specifically about the PBJ squadrons and the second just expands on the information in the first. So really, there's only one...

It's called Leatherneck Bombers by Alan C. Carey (the cover of which I used to craft my sig). It's not bad and it has some good photos and primary sources in the appendices but the writing is disjointed and poorly proofread. The chronology jumps around and is hard to follow. But not a bad reference over all especially as it's the only game in town AFAIK.

leitmotiv
06-29-2006, 10:21 PM
Will buy. Want to do an overall Sea Blue Hasegawa PBJ. Am cruising the Pacific in my virtual blue PBJ looking for trouble. Grrr Grrr. Merchant ships and destroyers beware!

Crash_Moses
06-30-2006, 07:44 AM
Woot! Need to get you onto the PacificConflict server in Hyperlobby. Need more bomber pilots! (I get lonely).

leitmotiv
06-30-2006, 08:09 AM
Always willing to do my bit. Never tried online. Receiving and giving fire is my trade. A chance to have at Sons of Heaven or drive a Val on a fire-spitting carrier? Make my day.

Crash_Moses
06-30-2006, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Always willing to do my bit. Never tried online. Receiving and giving fire is my trade. A chance to have at Sons of Heaven or drive a Val on a fire-spitting carrier? Make my day.

Heck, yeah! Spent a little time at Midway on Tuesday (in the Val). Pretty much on my own as my cover had to head back to the carriers to take care of some incoming badguys. Last night it was some island hopping (again in the Val and later, the Betty) to try and retake an airfield. idonno was there and some other fellers you might have seen around the forums. He practiced his high side attacks and I practiced crashing... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Ya know, I resisted going on-line for quite awhile...I mean, why muck up a perfectly good experience with real people? And I still enjoy off-line campaigns immensely but when my wife gave me the go ahead for a broadband connection a few years ago I decided to give it a whirl and I'll tell ya what...it's a whole different experience. I could actually use cloud cover to my advantage! Knowing your opponent is another living breathing person made the experience more...personal, I guess. Hard to explain.

In fact, it's so different that when we finally moved into our new home in the country (sans broadband) I stopped flying altogether. Well...I'll never make that mistake again, but at the time I figured, "Why bother? If I can't fly on-line, what's the point?"

Since then I figured out how to set my dial-up connection correctly to play on-line (the pull was just too strong) and I'm again having a blast. Key is finding a good bunch of guys (and/or gals) to fly with. Plenty of good servers in Hyperlobby but only a few good PTO servers. Others offer a mixed bag usually. Obviously I prefer the full real PTO variety.

Currently, most (okay...all) of my on-line time is spent on the PacificConflict server hosted by Airgroup 51. Great bunch of guys, older (and I know where to get pictures to prove it!), and just as interested in the history as the flyin'. In fact, I'm bettin' a few of 'em are probably up in yer age group (but I would never surmise which ones. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif). Missions are varied and use historical scenarios and plane sets. And all are objective based (except for the Okinawa DF map...deliberately I believe) which means plenty of ground targets for us bomber types.

Anyway, I highly recommend giving it a try. Would love to fly on yer wingtip and show some of these fighter jocks what it's all about. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

(Dang! Now they're gonna gang up on me...I just know it... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif)

The server is usually busiest on Tuesdays and Thursdays and the weekend but it varies. Best time is probably around 1800 PST and later. I'm on EST and they're usually still going by the time I go to bed. Got next week off so hopefully I'll be in more often. Gonna try fer sure...

I_KG100_Prien
06-30-2006, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by idonno:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Googly:

Part of it has to do with the fruitcakes who just sit in a prime position to be shot at http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif I fly many other bombers such as the Ju-87 and He-111 and it is the same with those aircraft too, so it is not the overmodelled guns, it is the undermodelled person in the fighter http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



I wasn't aware that you were following me around, observing my tactics every time I fly.

It never fails. Anytime you charge that something is not right, somebody comes along who has never flown with or against you and tells you how you€re doing it all wrong. Well you, like all the rest of your kind have no idea what you€re talking about. I do not "just sit in a prime position to be shot at." I've been doing this for some eight years, and I've shot down my share of bombers. I'm not the clueless idiot you suppose.



Originally posted by leitmotiv:

My proudest moment flying the A6M2 was in undermining the justifiably letal twin .30 kit on the Dauntli.


Yes, twin .30€s are so very lethal. Which explains the great success of the Boulton Paul Defiant. Oh wait. That airplane was a flop wasn€t it? But come to think of it, the Defiant didn€t have 2 .30€s firing to the rear, it had 4 of them, and it was still a death trap!

There is a reason why bombers flew in tight formations and needed escorts in order to have a reasonable chance of surviving. As long as lone bombers can have the kind of success they currently enjoy, we will never have historically accurate air combat. And trust me, if that day ever comes, you will still see me in a bomber from time to time. I just won't be alone. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We bomber jocks assume that you are one of those "idiots" you proclaim not to be, based on the fact that you started off with an apparent gripe at the "over done" gunners.


Who gets shot down with any frequency by a bombers defensive gunners? The yahoos that just park on our 6. Nighty nighty. Who doesn't get shot down regularly? The yahoo's that actually avoid getting into a position to be targeted with any kind of accuracy.

So don't start whining about being talked to like a short-bus passenger when you start off sounding like one.

But yes, you are correct that due to physics modelling limitations that air-to-air gunnery from flexible mounts is not as difficult as it should be. We all know that, carry on, nothing to see here.

leitmotiv
07-01-2006, 06:42 AM
I'll fly on your very competent wing, Crash_Moses. I'd rather be shot at than be shot at dawn after a court-martial! My level bombing ability is zip so I'll salvo bombs on the eagle-eyed leader! Will be interesting to see the results of 53 yr old reflexes opposed by younger. Bring 'em on! The more there are the easier to cut 'em down! I think I'll have to change my moniker to "cannon fodder"!

Crash_Moses
07-01-2006, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
I'll fly on your very competent wing, Crash_Moses. I'd rather be shot at than be shot at dawn after a court-martial! My level bombing ability is zip so I'll salvo bombs on the eagle-eyed leader! Will be interesting to see the results of 53 yr old reflexes opposed by younger. Bring 'em on! The more there are the easier to cut 'em down! I think I'll have to change my moniker to "cannon fodder"!

Funny you should mention that...been thinking of changing mine to "Baron von Wreckoften". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

idonno
07-01-2006, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by I_KG100_Prien:
But yes, you are correct that due to physics modelling limitations that air-to-air gunnery from flexible mounts is not as difficult as it should be. We all know that...

If you all know that, then why is everybody but you disputing it?


------------------------------------------------

leitmotiv
07-01-2006, 09:07 AM
"Dead Meat" for me! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I can't wait for the B OF BRIT Blenheim IV so I'll have the opportunity to crash in France instead of in the ocean! The Ju 88A-1 opens up a whole world of high velocity crashes into fields in Kent!

Crash_Moses
07-01-2006, 08:50 PM
lol...roger that!

I'll keep my eyes peeled for "cannon fodder" and/or "dead meat"...

"Impact!" just arrived today...time to curl up somewhere and start reading...hmm...I feel a bubble bath coming on...(a manly bubble bath of course...I make my own bubbles)...

Crash_Moses
07-31-2006, 10:09 AM
I apologize for dredging up an old thread (NOT!) but I'm in the middle of reading Impact! The Dive Bomber Pilots Speak by Peter C. Smith and I just finished reading a passage I found particularly relevant. It's a quote from Lieutenant Paul A. Holmberg, wingman of Lieutenant Commander Maxwell F. Leslie (VB-3), and member of a flight of 17 SBD's flown from the carrier Yorktown during the Battle of Midway. His target is the Kaga.


Fortunately for our dive bomber squadron, enemy fighters were remaining at low altitudes, as we approached, to cope with our torpedo planes attack taking place at the same time. Therefore, we had no air opposition while proceeding to a point over our selected target at about 24,000 feet altitude. In the initial part of our dive (down to 12,000 feet) our flight path (dive) was at about 70 degrees (20 degrees less than vertical). This tactic enabled us to expedite the attack as no enemy opposition appeared. In the vertical phase, from 12,000 feet down to bomb release, I was concentrating on adjusting the aircraft's heading to keep the cross hairs of my telescope bomb sight on a red ball painted on the forward part of the flight deck on the target ship. I concentrated on two things at this juncture; one was to watch the altimeter for 1,500 feet coming up, the other was to push the electric bomb release button, and, at the same time, pull the manual bomb release lanyard at 1,500 feet altitude. I did this to make doubly sure my bomb was released!

Next, I concentrated on pulling out of my dive so that I would be just skimming the water when I regained the horizontal flight. Several seconds had passed after I had regained horizontal flight when my gunner (my rear seat man) shouted joyously over the intercom that my bomb had struck the target and that I should look back to see. I did so with satisfaction -- but just for a moment, for then I concerned myself with evading ship's gunfire that manifested itself by shell splashes in the water in my vicinity.

This tactic jibes with a method mentioned in Aichi D3A1/2 (also by Peter C. Smith) that describes the Val coming in from a high altitude and, once the target is spotted, begins a shallow dive of 30 degrees to build up speed, and once over the target changes to a 70 degree or greater dive.

It seems this would be a much better way to minimize the time over target and make it harder for AA to hit you than just putt-putting along (c'mon the Val and SBD are sloooooow) and then doing a roll over once over the target.

I'm gonna go practice!

Crash_Moses
08-01-2006, 05:12 PM
Oh yeah! Douglas SBD Dauntless by Peter C. Smith was waiting for me on the porch today (took a month to get here from the UK...only $10 shipping though) and OMG! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Get ready for a bunch of useless information that only two or three of us actually care about!

Ever wonder how many hours of training pilots had to endure for Communications (1) Code, Blinker, Semaphore?

12!

Or Gunnery (2) Guns?

2!

How about the serial number of the A-24 flown by Lieutenant Harry L. Galusha during the fracas at Darwin?

0303125!

But best of all (and maybe I should have mentioned this first) ten pages of very detailed descriptions of typical flight operations and bombing methods in small type on large pages including pictures and graphs of:

Actual Combat Loading Details SBD/A-24

and

US Navy Dive Bomber Formation Details (i.e. 75 feet horizontal between groups of three and 75 feet vertical between section leaders and standard cruising formation change over in turn with two flights of three)

and

Typical Path of a Dive Bomber in Dives of 50 and 70 Degrees with 'Pull-out' Acceleration of 4G. Air Speed 200 knots for both Attacks (This graph is incredible...)

and

Dive bomber approach dive and getaway

and section headings titled; Scouting Missions, Initial Rendezvous, Climb to Cruising Altitude, Approach to Target, Approach Dive and Final Attack Dive. (If that doesn't whet your appetite then what are you still doing here?!)

The rest of the book is, obviously, a history of the SBD with many fairly detailed descriptions of noteworthy missions (big and small), unit configurations, and a very detailed section on remaining SBDs, their restoration status, and the location of the museum where the plane is stationed (at the time of publication...1997).

Only down side is the lack of color photos (understandbly so) but the B/W pics are very nice.

I'll post more when I come up for air...

Stand by!

Haigotron
08-02-2006, 08:51 AM
I prefer the ju87 over the SBD any day of the week, its way it flies so nicely... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

oh and the sirens is a must for me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

hi_stik
08-02-2006, 10:05 AM
I got my SBDin' on last night, and I actually struck a vessel w/ my bomb. It's a fun plane to fly, but it's tedious climbing to a decent attack altitude...

BOMBS!

Crash_Moses
08-02-2006, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by Haigotron:
I prefer the ju87 over the SBD any day of the week, its way it flies so nicely... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

oh and the sirens is a must for me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Ju-87? Back into General Discussion with you! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

(Merge the forums, please!)

But yes, I love flying the Ju-87. BTW, the same author above wrote a book on the Stuka for the same series. I believe it was his first and I haven't seen a copy but it's up there on my wish list (maybe after my wife forgives me for the last four books I snuck past her...hehehe). I have three of his books and haven't been disappointed yet...

S!

Crash_Moses
08-02-2006, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by hi_stik:
I got my SBDin' on last night, and I actually struck a vessel w/ my bomb. It's a fun plane to fly, but it's tedious climbing to a decent attack altitude...

BOMBS!

SBD=Slow But Deadly! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I've been practicing though and I can get to 10,000 feet in about seven minutes. After take-off, as soon as my flaps are up, I level out until I'm going about 160 kts and then I trim nose up until I'm climbing at about 1,500 feet a minute. Ol' Bessy usually keeps a good forward speed of between 130 and 140 kts.

Hmmm...lemme see (thumbs through book)...ah here it is. Best climb speed for the SBD-3 was 1,190 FPM and 1,700 FPM for the SBD-5.

sigh...

Crash_Moses
08-02-2006, 03:00 PM
double sigh...
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y125/Crash_Moses/TypicalPathofaDiveBomber.jpg

leitmotiv
08-03-2006, 08:56 PM
Insufferable Dauntli fanatic! I'm taking a breather with FS2004 so I can fly the Fairey Battle, the Skua, the Whitley, Wellington, Halifax, and all flavors of Lancasters. I got tired of fooling around with 1,000-lb. load-outs! Also using STRIKE FIGHTERS so I can go after the Bridges at Toko-Ri! I have fallen so far from the true creed I'm even dating an Iranian F-14 on the sly. Cheers, Former Naval Person

joeap
08-04-2006, 01:50 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Insufferable Dauntli fanatic! I'm taking a breather with FS2004 so I can fly the Fairey Battle, the Skua, the Whitley, Wellington, Halifax, and all flavors of Lancasters. I got tired of fooling around with 1,000-lb. load-outs! Also using STRIKE FIGHTERS so I can go after the Bridges at Toko-Ri! I have fallen so far from the true creed I'm even dating an Iranian F-14 on the sly. Cheers, Former Naval Person

Wooot sounds fun. Anyway I know a famous guy who siigned off like you did. Anyone else know of whom I speak? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Crash_Moses
08-04-2006, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Insufferable Dauntli fanatic! I'm taking a breather with FS2004 so I can fly the Fairey Battle, the Skua, the Whitley, Wellington, Halifax, and all flavors of Lancasters. I got tired of fooling around with 1,000-lb. load-outs! Also using STRIKE FIGHTERS so I can go after the Bridges at Toko-Ri! I have fallen so far from the true creed I'm even dating an Iranian F-14 on the sly. Cheers, Former Naval Person

Wish I could fly the Skua. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

It was given quite a few pages in Impact!. I was really surprised at the UKs resistance to using dive bombers and I think the RN was the only service that really gave it serious thought. Interesting that the Skua helped usher in the war as well as saw it through to the end.

Dang...don't have my copy in front of me...otherwise I would quote a bunch of useless information for ya...

S!

joeap: No idea. Was it you?

Crash_Moses
08-04-2006, 02:03 PM
ooh...ooh...ooh, Mr. Kotta!

Just found this in the notes in the back of Dauntless.


Interestingly the US Navy SBD aircrew were relearning an old lesson already proven by their counterparts in the Royal Navy. Among the very first attacks made by Fleet Air Arm Blackburn Skua dive bombers from the carrier Ark Royal were against German submarines. Off the Orkney Islands, Scotland, in the very first days of the war, the Skuas had attacked U-boats at low level in the same way that the Dauntlesses attacked the Japanese submarines, and with the same lack of results. Even more humiliating was the fact that in a low-level attack one Skua was blown into the sea by the explosion of its own bomb, and the crew taken prisoner by the very U-boat they had been trying to sink! One Skua pilot told the author that bombing submarines with such a weapon was about as useful as throwing a tin of marmalade at them!

Ha! That's 'cause they weren't flyin' with 'ol CM...

leitmotiv
08-05-2006, 03:11 AM
KRUNK!!!!

http://freespace.virgin.net/john.dell/sinking_of_the_konigsberg.htm

Excellent scratchbuilt model of Skua showing what it looked like (MPM releasing a !:48 model this year):

http://www.hedgehoghollow.com/ipms/img/ac138.html

Flying the Bergen attack in FS2004 with my faithful Skua---dawn---right out of the sun.

Download a FS2004 Skua, Battle, or Roc here:

http://www.pavaservices.com/cfs/

Crash_Moses
08-05-2006, 10:26 AM
Excellent read! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Makes the RAF, RA, and MAPs resistance to dive bombers even more befuddling especially considering the success of the Stuka. Oh well, 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Amazing what you can find out there on the 'Net. Interesting to note that the authors of Shattered Sword felt the advent of the Internet and the "spontaneous creation of globe-spanning communities of interest" revolutionized their approach to writing the book.

Speaking of research, I misspoke earlier about the role of the Skua throughout the war. Again, from Impact!:


The last Blackburn Skuas were finally phased out of service in 1941; 801 Squadron flew the last combat missions.

"By mid-1941 we had become maids-of-all-work for attack missions both shore and carrier-based. Just before some of the old hands of 801 were hived and embarked with Fulmar II's in the brand-new Victorious, we had reached the art of hitting ships pretty well, indeed for sure. We had all sorts of esoteric tricks in store for the wily Hun, even to the extent of hitting ships tucked into the shelter of cliffs in the deep fijords of Norway. This entailed a splendid curved approach, where the bomb was implanted with a nice 'in-swinger' type of movement."

But 801's days were numbered and all this vital dive bombing expertise was thrown away. Before then they had a last flurry of activity.

"The squadron embarked from time to time either for strikes off Northern Norway or to provide strike/fighter or search roles for special convoys taking RAF fighter aircraft to West Africa for onward reinforcement for Wavell's war efforts. It was during this period we were sent to RAF St Eval for the 'Salmon and Gluck' effort, which in turn was ended when the German Air Force counter-attacked St Eval and severely mauled our poor old Skuas whilst parked near the control tower"

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

leitmotiv
08-05-2006, 02:30 PM
With the healthy qualifier than 90% of what you find on the internet is unmitigated trash! I was fooled the other day. Found on Google video a very interesting series of gun camera images from the N. African campaign. 109 Chopping up Hurricanes. Found it fascinating until I noticed something oddly familiar about it---the chunks flying off the hapless Hurricanes appeared to look like standard Maddox bits. I put the video on slow motion and noticed the squadron codes on the Hur were the default Maddox ones for all RAF aircraft. Some twerp took a Maddox track, black and whited it, fuzzied it up a bit, and viola! produced a bogus gun cam snippet onto which he added a black Luftwaffe gun cam film placard stating the date of the engagement and the types of aircraft in the action. I do not find this cute. Soon this kind of junk and and the Photo Shop kind of junk is going to creep into the historical record. I know hackers love to deceive, and many people admire their ingenuity, but I absolutely deplore it. The internet will never be a substitute for an excellent personal library of books or university or local libraries or document collections. As the authors of SHATTERED SWORD wrote, the internet vastly speeds up the process of communication between scholars and scholars and scholars and eye-witnesses---this is good.

I guess I can let the cat out of the bag: "Former Naval Person" was the pseudonym adopted by Winston Churchill while communicating with FDR during WWII.

Crash_Moses
08-05-2006, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
I guess I can let the cat out of the bag: "Former Naval Person" was the pseudonym adopted by Winston Churchill while communicating with FDR during WWII.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gifI like it!

A recent headline from The Onion:

Wikipedia Celebrates 750 Years Of American Independence
Founding Fathers, Patriots, Mr. T. Honored

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y125/Crash_Moses/Wikipedia-Celebrates-Jump-R.jpg

leitmotiv
08-05-2006, 03:35 PM
That's good!

leitmotiv
08-10-2006, 08:47 PM
The Trumpeter 1:32 scale SBD

http://modelingmadness.com/scotts/features/2006nats/IMG_5779.jpg

Crash_Moses
08-10-2006, 11:06 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Two thumbs up.

sigh...I gotta get me an airbrush...

leitmotiv
08-11-2006, 05:38 AM
Argh. I gotta get me some time to build. The Testors Aztec is supposed to be a great system. I use an Iwata I bought nearly twenty yrs ago before they were fashionable. Now they cost an arm 'n' a leg. The 1:32 Trump TBD will blow my mind to Outer Mongolia---never, never did I ever expect anybody would max out a TBD! Hopefully they'll do a Kate, too, and an early TBF for a Guadalcanal '42 USMC bird.

Crash_Moses
08-11-2006, 12:33 PM
Time! If I stopped postin' and started building I'd be done by now! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Promised myself after I finish my Accurate Miniatures SBD that I'd hunt down one of the old Guillow's balsa wood versions and try and do something totally accurate (you know...fashioning pieces and parts out of household items).

Then I'll have to get an airbrush.

leitmotiv
08-12-2006, 01:07 AM
Man, that Guillow project will be hard core! Good luck!

Zeus-cat
08-12-2006, 06:29 AM
sigh...I gotta get me an airbrush...

A good compressor is just as important. You need one with a water trap ad a pressure gauge. My current compressor has neither and I have to get a new one ths year. My new one will cost more than the airbrush and will be worth every penny.

Crash_Moses
08-12-2006, 08:42 AM
Good info. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Got any recommendations?

leitmotiv
08-12-2006, 02:16 PM
I used to use a huge silent compressor made in Italy but lifting the thing was killing my back so I went back to using cans of propellant because they take up no space at all. The downside to using a regular compressor is that it makes a racket like a pneumatic drill which I couldn't stand---that's why I bought the silent compressor! Frankly, I am able to get by quite well with my cans of propellant.

Zeus-cat
08-12-2006, 02:32 PM
Crash_Moses,

I haven't researched a compressor yet, so I can't make any recommendations. Cans of propellant as leitmotiv suggests are a reasonable alternative, but if you plan on using the aibrush a lot, the cans get expensive. Also, the cans get cold as they discharge and this can cause problems if you want to use the brush a lot at one sitting.

leitmotiv
08-12-2006, 10:29 PM
I make sure I have at least two big cans of propellant as "ready use ammunition" so I can switch from one to the other if I have a long session. I have been using airbrushes since 1967 and I have found the airbrush is the thing, not the compressor. If you want to get into action, buy an excellent airbrush which suits your hand (best to shop for airbrushes at your local hobby shop or an art supplies store than to buy online---you need to test its sit on your hand), get a good airbrush manual, and buy two tall cans of propellant. Once you are sure you want to go hard core, buy a really good compressor with a pressure gauge, water trap, etc. For my money, Iwata makes the world's best airbrushes (mine is 17 yrs old and still going). I returned to hand painting for years (mainly because I was doing a lot of ships), but for airplanes and tanks airbrushes are absolutely necessary for the best effects, especially weathering.

leitmotiv
08-13-2006, 01:58 AM
This may float yer boat---look around and you'll be likely to find it cheaper---I can lend a hand finding a discount place if you're interested:

http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/item.php?product-id=74520

Cheers, Nagumo

Crash_Moses
08-13-2006, 08:53 AM
Thanks, guys. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

That's definitely in my price range. When I get ready to take the plunge I'll shop around on e-bay and such. Almost all my toys are "used" to some degree or other. My wife may complain about my purchases occasionally but she can never say I paid too much. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

S!

Zeus-cat
08-13-2006, 08:32 PM
leitmotiv,

I wasn't trying to say a good airbrush isn't worth the money, my point was supposed to be that a great airbrush is worthless without a good air supply (I'm all out of love, I can't live without you... Oops, wrong Air Supply - never mind).

Anyway, there are a number of options for an air supply:

1) A compressor with a moisture trap and a pressure gauge/regulator is probably the best overall choice if you can afford it. Pros: relaible air source. Cons: expensive initial investment

2) Cans of propellant are another option. Pros: no moisture problem. Reliable. Cons: Can't be used on big projects as the gas freezes the air line if used a lot. If you are painting a single 1/35 scale armor project this shouldn't be a problem. Try spraying a base coat on 2 or 3 at once and you will probably notice this. The cans get expensive if you use your airbrush a lot.

3) A spare tire with a moisture trap and pressure gauge: I've seen this recommended in hobby magazines. You air supply is free if you can run down to your local service station and fill up your spare tire whenever you need it. Pros: cheaper than a compressor and cans of propellant. Cons: You need to haul a spare tire around. The air from the tire may smell bad. You still need a moisture trap and some way to regulate pressure. You have to have a way to connect your air hose to your spare tire. I believe Iwata sells a valve just for this purpose on their website.

4) Bottled nitrogen: I have seen this recommended in hobby magazines: Pros: the gas is dry, so no moisture problems. Nitrogen is non-toxic - we are breathing about 80% nitrogen already. Cons: You need a bottle to put the nitrogen in. You need a gas supplier who will fill up your tank/bottle. This may be hard to find. You still need a pressure regulator and a valve that allows you to connect the tank to your airbrush. You have to haul around a tank of compressed nitrogen.

Crash_Moses
08-13-2006, 10:11 PM
lol...omg...a spare tire. Never even crossed my mind. Heck, I could just pump it up with my bicycle tire pump!

But ya know, a lot of automotive service centers are starting to offer nitrogen for car tires so it probably wouldn't be too hard to get ahold of some. Better yet, I'll take my spare tire in and have 'em fill it with nitrogen! Problem solved!

hehehe--I kill myself...

leitmotiv
08-15-2006, 07:03 AM
On the other hand, filling a balloon with 4 oz of your favorite hobby paint, constricting its outlet, and applying pressure to the bulb has been recommended by a Hyper Scale article as an excellent substitute for taking the same amount of paint in your mouth and vigorously blowing on the model. Pablo Picasso

Crash_Moses
08-15-2006, 09:08 AM
Wait! I'll fill the tire with helium and then use that to blow up the balloon and then...aw heck...I'm just gonna throw some decals on it and call it good...

leitmotiv
08-15-2006, 04:18 PM
Tamiya makes some useful paints in spray cans---never despair!

erco415
08-17-2006, 03:48 PM
Hi All!
Instead of a compressor, I've used the CO2 bottle from a soft drink dispenser. I rent mine for $5/month, all the CO2 you can use included. I'm using it with my Testors Aztec, but hope to upgrade to an Iwata at some point in the future. I'm not using mine intensively, but just the same I've never needed to refill the bottle. You can also buy a cylinder (which I might do when ahead on the bills) which might be cheaper in the long run. You should be able to find a cylinder at a welding supply place or at a specialty shop. I'm sold on the bottled gas for airbrushing (the folks doing airbrushed t-shirts at the fair always have them), It's quiet, dependable and simple. The only possible complaint I have is that after a long session with the brush, the regulator gets cold and I'm not sure if it causes water to get into the line, as I get some spitting. I've thought to add a length of tubing run through a coffee can filled with hot water after the regulator and before the brush. This is only an issue with long sessions with the brush in humid conditions. Now the thing I really need to get now is a spray booth...!
erco

Crash_Moses
08-18-2006, 07:38 AM
Even more good advice. Looks like I'm running out of excuses NOT to get an airbrush...still have one left though. But if I can take out her RADAR and stick to the clouds I might be able to pull it off...

And now a word from our sponser...


From Dauntless by Peter C. Smith

Although SBD strikes were usually launched from their carriers as part of comprehensive air groups, along with torpedo bombers and escorting fighters, actual combat practice and the hazards of this type of long-range operation, more often than not meant that the Dauntless was left to fend for itself against clouds of Japanese Zero fighters. In theory this should have led to a very high loss rate, as with the A-24 over Buna, but in actual combat, at the Battle of the Coral Sea, the slow but highly manoeuvrable Dauntless more than held its own, and in fact destroyed more enemy aircraft than the Grumman Wildcat fighters during the course of the battle. It was one occasion when the dive bombers were deliberately employed as aerial defenders of the fleet instead of in their true role.

Take that all you fighter jocks! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

leitmotiv
08-18-2006, 11:50 AM
Er, I suggest you look at Lundstrom's THE FIRST TEAM---the VT CAP Dauntli were pretty well routed by the Zeros at Coral Sea---I do not know what bananas Smith is peddling but the VT CAP incident was considered a debacle at the time and ever after in naval circles. In 1989, TAILHOOK carried an article by Lundstrom which went into the matter in even greater detail with diagrams and tallies. Frank Jack Fletcher

P.S. The brand new Tamiya 1:32 A6M2 is incredible. Genda

Crash_Moses
08-18-2006, 12:56 PM
hehe...I thought that might bring you out of hiding...missed ya.

leitmotiv
08-18-2006, 02:11 PM
Sneaky sod. I was scouring FS2004 add-on sites for a Devastator---found three and they were all terrible. Found two passable Whitleys and a Stirling. My craving to drive a torpedo plane against a carrier through a torrent of flak remains unrequited. Discovered that the redoubtable Microsoft Sidewinder 2 force feedback stick is everything people have claimed over the years. Snagged a pretty good one and am stunned. It gives you more stick resistance than the Brown settings plus King Kong pushing against you. I can't believe they took this gem off the market. It makes FS2004 equal to the Maddox line in aerodynamic effects. Dive bombing is brutally hard with it. You have more accuracy but you lose 10 pounds fighting the stick (not that I can't afford to lose ten pounds, herf herf). Have been using the Cloud9 F-104 for FS2004---holy cow! Delay lift off and your tires blow out and you get flamboed! Pull up too sharp on take off and your engine bangs three times and dies! Do anything but go Mach 2 straight out and you buy the farm. I love it! There is an ultra-detailed SORYU for FS2004 I'm trying to install. Found a promising B5N2 this morning. Cheers, Basher St. Blaise

Crash_Moses
08-18-2006, 02:55 PM
lol...I'm still trying to master BOBII. Impressed enough to finally break down and upgrade my TIR3 to 6DOF. Should arrive Monday. Almost have the joystick programmed just right. The strategy part of the game is awesome! I love a good 4X game. Reading the manual is a must.

My stick has 19# springs so it requires quite a bit of pressure to hold it steady, especially at slow speeds which, in the SBD, is pretty much all the time (lord I love trim...). But you're saying the MSSFF is a slick stick? Hmmm...I may have to go find me one. The Cyborg Evo I'm forced to use when I play with my daughter just ain't cutting it.

Yeah, that bit on the Battle of the Coral Sea kinda jumped out at me. I did the whole "Huh?" and head scratching bit. Immediately thought of you.

"I wonder what that silly screenwriter would think of this?"

I just couldn't resist posting it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Which, by the way, reminds me. Did you notice how "maneuverable" was spelled? I double checked to make sure and it's listed as an acceptable spelling. Is that the English spelling, oh Wise One?

leitmotiv
08-18-2006, 04:00 PM
I'm so brain damaged I had to resort to the PRINCETON DICTIONARY for that one---yep, authentic English English. The Microsoft Sidewinder 2 is the mother of all joysticks. Even if you don't care for force feedback it will give you so d----d much resistance you'll feel like you are Fred MacMurray in DIVE BOMBER fighting with a F3F's stick in a death dive. I consider it to be as indispensible as the game computer. I've seen posts about its virtues, but, frankly, they were too conservative.

leitmotiv
08-18-2006, 05:06 PM
"Silly"? ---pistols at daybreak!!!!

Crash_Moses
08-18-2006, 08:07 PM
hehehe...how 'bout SBDs instead? My tailgunner against yours (that way we don't get hurt). Of course, you'd have to get on-line then... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I've never tried force feedback. About the closest I've come are my kids' PS2 controllers. My curiosity is piqued...hmmm. My current stick has 22 different functions assigned to it and I'd hate to give up that functionality. I know...I'll just buy one for "the kids." http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

leitmotiv
08-18-2006, 08:28 PM
I bought a yoke for bomber immersion, but it is't FF. "Flying" is so easy with it it is embarrassing (the only problem is that I am unable to lock it to the desk---which made using it nearly impossible). I have a Logitech Pro FF stick which is a wonderful stick for perfect simulated flying, but it is so smooth it is ridiculous. The Logitech Wingman 3D was the best FF stick I found before the Sidewinder 2, but its effects are approximately 1/4 those of the SW, and there is no hammering your hand. The SW tugs and pulls like it is really straining on control lines. The Wings of Power A6M5 is smooth as glass with it, much to my surprise. The Cloud9 F-104 causes the SW to beat may hand like I'm catching balls thrown by a 70mph pitcher. Forget perfect maneuvers---but the real F-104 was only good for fast and straight.

erco415
08-19-2006, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by Crash_Moses:
Even more good advice. Looks like I'm running out of excuses NOT to get an airbrush...still have one left though. But if I can take out her RADAR and stick to the clouds I might be able to pull it off...

Got HARM, will travel! (You'll be spraying in no time.) The problem is getting this emminently worthy purchase past Her Majesty's Accounting, no? $130 was all it took to get me up and running with the double action Aztek brush (the boxed set), regulator and CO2 tank (leased). I've been happy with the Aztek, but while I don't think it'll be my last brush, it's a good starter and quite capable. (Those are Oklahoma prices btw.)
erco

leitmotiv
08-19-2006, 01:48 PM
Nice one, erco415. I use Shrikes, too!