PDA

View Full Version : Disrespect at its utmost



Mercwolf2
07-04-2006, 07:17 AM
Please read this article. I was totally upset at the disrespect of this individual and his lack of respect to the war dead. This is the Canadian war memorial and the tomb of the unkown soldier. What do you think should happen to this individual?

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/200...60704?hub=TopStories (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060703/war_deface_060703/20060704?hub=TopStories)

MEGILE
07-04-2006, 07:19 AM
He needs to be potty trained.

Capt.LoneRanger
07-04-2006, 07:24 AM
It's a pitty how some individuals show a lack of understanding.

If I had to say something, I'd bind him and let all those, who lost a loved one in the war p*ss on him.

Monty_Thrud
07-04-2006, 07:33 AM
Bring back the Stocks

Zeus-cat
07-04-2006, 08:21 AM
Round up these idiots and send them to a veteran's hospital and make them do 100 hours of community service there. Let them see what its like to be a wounded veteran. If that doesn't get them to show respect for veterans, than nothing will.

OD_79
07-04-2006, 08:29 AM
I was at Uni for rembrance day in 2002 and I had this **** stand in front of me at 11am when everyone had the two minutes silence and he was gobbing off about how he hated Remembrance day because it was about people who went away wanting to be heroes and come back and brag about how many Germans thay had killed. I nearly smacked him there and then, but thought better of it. Pissed me of beyond belief, everytime I saw him I just gave him a nasty look and left it at that.
Some people have no respect and no idea.

OD.

PBNA-Boosher
07-04-2006, 08:30 AM
Better yet, sentence them to a full tour of combat duty. Then they'll get a better idea of who they dishonored.

heywooood
07-04-2006, 08:33 AM
freedom of speech and freedom of expression come at a price...vandalism however, is a crime.

Every time the issue of flag burning being made a crime is raised, I am reminded of our fundamental freedom in this country to voice dissent, and the price paid by our militia over the years to protect that freedom.

Community service at veterans hospitals should be a requirement for every high school student in America, to connect our youth with their heritage and the people who have given something tangeable to protect it.

I have been a driver for the VA - transporting our wounded or otherwise infirm veterans to and from the hospital and anywhere else they want to go in San Diego -and I have met many of our finest citizens....people who served and carry on with quiet dignity and courage.

Capt.LoneRanger
07-04-2006, 09:06 AM
freedom of speech and freedom of expression come at a price

Indeed.

Like Dieter Nuhr, a German comedian put it:

"Many people have misunderstood the basic concept of democracy. In democracy you CAN have your very own opinion, but you don't HAVE TO. If you don't know sh*t: Just shut up."

Cossack13
07-04-2006, 09:12 AM
If this had happened in the US, the "whizzers" would be hailed as anti-war heroes by the mass media ala Cindy Sheehan.

T_O_A_D
07-04-2006, 09:15 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Now that deserves a caining!

Bearcat99
07-04-2006, 09:39 AM
People who do things like that are usually selfish, cowardly little pr!cks who really dont care about anyone but themselves and usually wind up leading useless lived wasted on selfish pursuits that amount to very little.

Sergio_101
07-04-2006, 09:39 AM
Place em face up in the bottom of a urinal
and invite vetrans to relieve themselves.

Then send them for a stay at Guantanamo.

Sergio

usmc4282005
07-04-2006, 09:44 AM
He better get punished. This had better not turn into some political debate where all he gets is a slap on the wrist. I hope he gets the cell with a Vietnam vet who beat up a war protester.


It was seven years ago to the day that my instructor, Poyntz Roberts had said, "Off you go," and I had flown away alone from earth for the first time. My passion had been all for flying. Never did I dream it would lead me into this charnel house where most of my friends had now become burnt and mutilated corpses. Yet transending all the hideous slaughter was the eternal, immaculate purity of the blue heavens and the notion, which these few days on the ground had sharpened, that we were dying for a country we loved which had nourished us and breathed its formidable, unconquerable spirit into our souls. -Peter Townsend

Targ
07-04-2006, 10:02 AM
I like how the PM brushed the whole thing off and down played as if it were nothing.
He does not care at all it seems.

JG52Uther
07-04-2006, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by Targ:
I like how the PM brushed the whole thing off and down played as if it were nothing.
He does not care at all it seems.
He's a politician,and obviously out of touch.

Taylortony
07-04-2006, 10:45 AM
That is discraceful, would hang em up by it that'd make em think twice about whipping it out.

On a lighter note

When I was in Germany before Reunification they were forever arresting a down and out who used to use the Eternal flame (lit to burn till Germany was once again reunited) to cook his sausages over... he was often found pan in hand frying his meal over the flame and often appeared on the news........... good on him http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

madsarmy
07-04-2006, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by Sergio_101:
Place em face up in the bottom of a urinal
and invite vetrans to relieve themselves.
Sergio

Excellent idea. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

AKA_TAGERT
07-04-2006, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by pehi001:
Please read this article. I was totally upset at the disrespect of this individual and his lack of respect to the war dead. This is the Canadian war memorial and the tomb of the unkown soldier. What do you think should happen to this individual?

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/200...60704?hub=TopStories (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060703/war_deface_060703/20060704?hub=TopStories) Libs.. God love em because no body else does! If you think this is bad.. Just wait until someone stands up to defend his actions under some twisted interpetation of freedom of speach. I would like to freedom of speach down his neck!

AKA_TAGERT
07-04-2006, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by Cossack13:
If this had happened in the US, the "whizzers" would be hailed as anti-war heroes by the mass media ala Cindy Sheehan. Sad.. but true

huggy87
07-04-2006, 11:51 AM
No disrespect to canadians... In fact, this is more of a question than a statement. The last canadian generation to be heavily involved in any conflict is at least 80 years old. Compared to america which has been significantly involved in several conflicts since WW2. Has this bred an ambivalence towards veterans among many? It seems that in the US, although there is a very vocal outcry against our leadership, respect for the military and veterans is at an all time high regardless of political persuasion. I'm not trying to diminish canada's involvement in world affairs over the last 60 years, but the military is a very small percentage of the population. Again, I'm not spouting, but hypothesizing. I'm interested in Canadian's viewpoints.

Mercwolf2
07-04-2006, 11:58 AM
Canadians are very active in the action against the Taliban. We have lost 8 soldiers in the past 2 months and another group are leaving soon. We have committed to another 2 years.

Lucius_Esox
07-04-2006, 12:06 PM
The world is full of dumb shi*s like them. We got plenty of that sort over here in Britain.

I know what I would like to happen but that would make me worse than them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Interestingly in Britain at the moment there is talk of bringing back some form of national service. Not for military reasons either.

Good idea if handled correctly methinks

joeap
07-04-2006, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by pehi001:
Please read this article. I was totally upset at the disrespect of this individual and his lack of respect to the war dead. This is the Canadian war memorial and the tomb of the unkown soldier. What do you think should happen to this individual?

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/200...60704?hub=TopStories (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060703/war_deface_060703/20060704?hub=TopStories) Libs.. God love em because no body else does! If you think this is bad.. Just wait until someone stands up to defend his actions under some twisted interpetation of freedom of speach. I would like to freedom of speach down his neck! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Peeing is NOT freedom of speech. It's just peeing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Dew-Claw
07-04-2006, 12:14 PM
I think they should be "sentenced" to 3 yrs Military service to learn respect for the war dead.
A couple tours in the middle east should change thier attitude.

Viper2005_
07-04-2006, 12:23 PM
The best thing that can be done about this sort of thing is to ignore it.

Shock and outrage is what they want. That's why they're doing it.

So just ignore them. Once they see that they won't get the attention they want from these actions, the chances are that they'll give up.

shinden1974
07-04-2006, 12:59 PM
Who's surprised...

We are taught nowadays not to respect what they fight for...try to respect them, but not what they fight for...I wonder if most people make this leap in their hearts? IMO not many.

These people are...90% of the time, the same people, they chuckled when ted rall smeared Pat Tillman, KRS-1 and Ward Churchill cheered the deaths at 9/11, and when well known rock stars preyed for a victory for the terrorists. Cossack and AKA TAGERT pointed them out, but most of the time we can't be permitted to do so.

The 'world' only knows of our crimes, naked terrorists wearing underwear in their heads, the indignity of orange chicken and flushed Korans that didn't happen at gitmo and secret prisons in F'ing romania no one has proof of, *****ing about spying from folks who will never see the inside of an interrogation room or a jail cell for saying and doing whatever the hell they want while complaining of losing their freedom...They still ***** about WMD's as if that still matters after Terrorists bomb a group of children wanting to get candy from our soldiers.

Meanwhile, Largely, Nick Berg, Daniel Pearle, American Contracters, and by far American Soldiers are smeared and laughed at and the 'world' either doesn't give a ****, or will deliver a 'that's bad but look what you did! it's worse!' We'll see some of that in this thread...just hold your breath.

Warrington_Wolf
07-04-2006, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by Lucius_Esox:
The world is full of dumb shi*s like them. We got plenty of that sort over here in Britain.

I know what I would like to happen but that would make me worse than them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Interestingly in Britain at the moment there is talk of bringing back some form of national service. Not for military reasons either.

Good idea if handled correctly methinks

Great I have being saying bring back national service for criminals for years.
That should straighten the thugs, yobs and chavs out.
I bet those people who were urinating on that war memorial are the type who "think that they are hard". I would like to see if they would be hard enough to storm a beach with machine guns and mortars firing on them, or fighting in bitter cold for another piece of some god forsaken land whilst watching your mates die.

Sorry for the rant but this type of thing really makes my blood boil. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Eagle_361st
07-04-2006, 01:40 PM
Had I caught him doing this I would have pushed him face first into and make him lick up every last drop. People who desecrate any historical marker or place of rest are about the lowest life forms I can think of.

RCAF_Irish_403
07-04-2006, 01:44 PM
you people do realize you're falling into the "pee-pee dudes" trap, right?

Best thing to do is to ignore these pukes...they just want your attention

i highly doubt there is a coming wave of war memorial urinating on the horizon....the vast majority of people are decent....however, the vindictiveness of several posters here gives me pause

knightflyte
07-04-2006, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by Viper2005_:
The best thing that can be done about this sort of thing is to ignore it.

Shock and outrage is what they want. That's why they're doing it.

So just ignore them. Once they see that they won't get the attention they want from these actions, the chances are that they'll give up.



How will ignoring them make the situation better. It's not like they are children using a crayola crayon to colour in the monument. They urinated and defaced an emblem that has significant meaning to many many people. At the VERY least THEY didn't pay for the monument so they are destroying property.

Maybe they DID want to get a reaction. They SHOULD get a reaction, and I hope it's nothing like what they hoped they'd get.

If it was a family members gravestone you'd want them to be punished.....or at least clean up their mess and do some community service.

They didn't do this for attention.... they did it because they have no respect for their family, their country, nor themselves. That's fine if they want to break destroy or pi$$ on their own property.


As far as penalty or punishment......... I'd make them clean the monument every month for a year... AND do 100 hours community service with incontinant patients.

CornbreadPattie
07-04-2006, 02:15 PM
Just get over it... You don't need in Canada the sillyness we have here.......

Mercwolf2
07-04-2006, 02:31 PM
This is not only a national monument it is a tomb of a unknown fallen Canadian WW1 soldier whose remains were flown back over here from Europe. Sorry I disagree that it should go unpunished.

horseback
07-04-2006, 02:48 PM
That whole "ignore them, maybe they'll go away" arguement has been tried for about 40 years now, and the bastages haven't gone away--if anything, their numbers have increased and the lengths they'll go to in order to shock and outrage the rest of us have gotten ever closer to open violence.

I would not have kicked his ***; that's the sort of thing you do to another man. I propose doing what his parents obviously failed to do.

I would put him across my knee and paddle his bare butt until he cried (and believe me, it wouldn't take long) and promised to behave...it worked with my former brother in law.

cheers

horseback

Jester_159th
07-04-2006, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by Dew-Claw:
I think they should be "sentenced" to 3 yrs Military service to learn respect for the war dead.
A couple tours in the middle east should change thier attitude.

It's not just the war dead idiots like those morons in the article need to learn.

It's respect full stop. Something a larger and larger proportion of our societies seem to have forgotten the meaning of. It's one of the good things from society in our father's time that we've gradually lost over the years.

Sod the do-gooders and bunny huggers. Bring back the caine, bring back the birch and bring back hanging.

x6BL_Brando
07-04-2006, 02:56 PM
Libs.. God love em because no body else does


Are you talking about the guys wazzing on the memorial? Where do you get the idea that they have any political thoughts in their heads at all? They could be neo-fascists for all you know - just pepped on hatred and propaganda - just louts - no-brainers with no thoughts running through their heads except upsetting people. Sure some media hacks can print their own money using either side of the argument - don't confuse that with people having a political conscience, whichever side of the fence you or they're on.

Heads down in a urinal sounds good - but I don't think you'd find many of the latter-day veterans would agree. Lowering yourself to the status of these kinds of scum does not carry respect.

This (http://news.monstersandcritics.com/uk/article_1176472.php/Feltham_murder_report_to_be_published) is what happens when people stand back and allow 'natural justice' to prevail. Sure, maybe every outraged person might fairly go around and piss on these jerks' houses - I think that would be great! - but all I hear is ESCALATION.

The veterans that this memorial honours were also victims of escalation - that's my point.

Viper2005_
07-04-2006, 04:24 PM
Revenge is fun. It also isn't especially productive.

Outrage, and publicity are certainly counter-productive. When the BBC banned the Sex Pistols, they went to #1. Make a lot of noise about this sort of thing and the copy-cats will come out of the woodwork.

Punish the individuals by all means, but deny their actions the oxygen of publicity.

In this case, I'd say that cleaning up the mess, and learning a little history would fit the bill. Ideally, they should be invited to meet a veteran under controlled circumstances to see if they're man enough to face up to their actions.

Bearcat99
07-04-2006, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by huggy87:
No disrespect to canadians... In fact, this is more of a question than a statement. The last canadian generation to be heavily involved in any conflict is at least 80 years old. Compared to america which has been significantly involved in several conflicts since WW2. Has this bred an ambivalence towards veterans among many? It seems that in the US, although there is a very vocal outcry against our leadership, respect for the military and veterans is at an all time high regardless of political persuasion. I'm not trying to diminish canada's involvement in world affairs over the last 60 years, but the military is a very small percentage of the population. Again, I'm not spouting, but hypothesizing. I'm interested in Canadian's viewpoints.

Vietnam................................

Never again...... Keep in mind that the shameful way the men and women who fought in Vietnam were treated has a lot to do with why we are so vocal about our support of the troops. Military men of all ages and nations have been good and bad.... mixed in... some have behaved criminally on every side in every conflict... such is the way of war. We here in the U.S. though, realize that for the most part our fighting men and women are doing thier duty... if any scorn or contempt is to be placed at anyones feet it has of late been more so at the feet of the leadership, the politicians who make the decisions to send the soldiers to war.... and deal with them shamefully upon thier return (As in some veterans not getting the support thier families need even while figjhting)... and not on the fighting men themselves... That is one of the lessons the American people learned from Vietnam... and our veterans of that war paid a hard hard price for that lesson.

So today.... we make sure or most of us try to... that they know we are aware of and appreciate thier sacrifices.... Some of them wind up loosing everything but thier lives.... just because they did thier duty.... and of course many make that ultimate sacrifice.

SeaFireLIV
07-04-2006, 06:00 PM
Words fail me.

Freelancer-1
07-04-2006, 06:53 PM
I think this is really about a couple of incidents in which Canada day drunks, (who, if you know Canada and its lack of public facilities, are p1ssing everywhere) caught with there d1cks in thier hands, mugging for the camera of a well meaning , but naive patriot.

This is going to be quite the entertaining soap opera as all the various special interest groups try to get their footprints all over it. I look forward to reading the papers for the next week or so.

And for the record, drunk or not, I am digusted with the behavior of my fellow citizens, sometimes. Okay, actually more than sometimes, these days.

AKA_TAGERT
07-04-2006, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by joeap:
Peeing is NOT freedom of speech. It's just peeing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif You know that and I know that but that is not my point. My point is some libb mided lawer type will get these kids off by saying it was thier way of expressing themselfs thus falls under the protection of freedom of speah.

AKA_TAGERT
07-04-2006, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by x6BL_Brando:
Are you talking about the guys wazzing on the memorial? Where do you get the idea that they have any political thoughts in their heads at all? They could be neo-fascists for all you know - just pepped on hatred and propaganda - just louts - no-brainers with no thoughts running through their heads except upsetting people. Sure some media hacks can print their own money using either side of the argument - don't confuse that with people having a political conscience, whichever side of the fence you or they're on.

Heads down in a urinal sounds good - but I don't think you'd find many of the latter-day veterans would agree. Lowering yourself to the status of these kinds of scum does not carry respect. Nice try but no sale.. A neo type would at least have the balls to claim it in the name of neoisms.. These punks clearly come fomr a me me me mindset and if not active librals will be soon.


Originally posted by x6BL_Brando:
This is what happens when people stand back and allow 'natural justice' to prevail. Sure, maybe every outraged person might fairly go around and piss on these jerks' houses - I think that would be great! - but all I hear is ESCALATION. Good.. because IMHO what we need is a little LESS understanding and a lot more action.


Originally posted by x6BL_Brando:
The veterans that this memorial honours were also victims of escalation - that's my point. Pffffffffft! Victims.. Sounds like a very lib prespective to me.

Freelancer-1
07-04-2006, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
Peeing is NOT freedom of speech. It's just peeing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif You know that and I know that but that is not my point. My point is some libb mided lawer type will get these kids off by saying it was thier way of expressing themselfs thus falls under the protection of freedom of speah. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not exactly how it works up here Tagert, but close enough.

AKA_TAGERT
07-04-2006, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
Peeing is NOT freedom of speech. It's just peeing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif You know that and I know that but that is not my point. My point is some libb mided lawer type will get these kids off by saying it was thier way of expressing themselfs thus falls under the protection of freedom of speah. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not exactly how it works up here Tagert, but close enough. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Lucky you up there than! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif In that it was not too long ago that some art school down here put the cross in a jar of piss and called it art.. When it was found out that this art school recived goverment funding to do this **** alot of people called to have thier funding pulled. But some laywer type defened the cross in a jar of piss as some form of expression. I would like to find that artest and give him a little form of my expression!

danjama
07-04-2006, 07:26 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

VW-IceFire
07-04-2006, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by huggy87:
No disrespect to canadians... In fact, this is more of a question than a statement. The last canadian generation to be heavily involved in any conflict is at least 80 years old. Compared to america which has been significantly involved in several conflicts since WW2. Has this bred an ambivalence towards veterans among many? It seems that in the US, although there is a very vocal outcry against our leadership, respect for the military and veterans is at an all time high regardless of political persuasion. I'm not trying to diminish canada's involvement in world affairs over the last 60 years, but the military is a very small percentage of the population. Again, I'm not spouting, but hypothesizing. I'm interested in Canadian's viewpoints.
We definately have a disconnect between our military history and the youth of the nation. Myself being one of those youth and at the same time being far more aware than most of my generation its a fair thing to say. But its also what being Canadian is...sounds unusual but it is. We're not much for gloating, we're not much for telling everyone what we did, and while its great that the Americans cherish their troops and their veterans it is all a little over the top to us (I wouldn't call it arrogant but its just not what we do up here).

This is not always a good thing about being humble about the whole thing because nobody (ourselves included) seems to know what Canada did in the two major World Wars or knows what we're doing right now (which is leading the charge against the Taliban in southern Afganistan). The only people who know what Canada did in a major world war are the Belgians who receive significant history in their school system about Canada's contribution to liberating that country. Our veterans did it and we did it with excellence and the Belgians still seem to find us fit to thank.

We're just too humble and it sometimes leads us to situation where ignorance overshadows our humble approach to our military history which is rife with its share of casualties, heros, and hard won victories. I would like to say that you'd be hard done by to find a major conflict in the last 100 years where Canada wasn't somehow involved.

papotex
07-04-2006, 07:42 PM
as you can see, these are young 15-16 year old hoodlooms... i have seen them before.
bad up-bringing... THEY HAVE NOT HAVE A FREAKIN
CLUE OF WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

what gets me is that.. i grew up more or less in the out side world too, just like these kids.
but i never did infinitedly idiotic things like that. what sup with that

Gold_Monkey
07-04-2006, 08:31 PM
Beat the Sh**t out of the no good punks. Preferably with a Louisville Slugger. Then severly break the hand that they held their d**k with so every time they go take a wizz they'll remember that moment.

LStarosta
07-04-2006, 08:45 PM
I don't know about you guys, but I am ambidextrous when it comes to peeing.

wayno7777
07-04-2006, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by heywooood:
freedom of speech and freedom of expression come at a price...vandalism however, is a crime.

Every time the issue of flag burning being made a crime is raised, I am reminded of our fundamental freedom in this country to voice dissent, and the price paid by our militia over the years to protect that freedom.

Community service at veterans hospitals should be a requirement for every high school student in America, to connect our youth with their heritage and the people who have given something tangeable to protect it.

I have been a driver for the VA - transporting our wounded or otherwise infirm veterans to and from the hospital and anywhere else they want to go in San Diego -and I have met many of our finest citizens....people who served and carry on with quiet dignity and courage.

Well said. I agree 100%. Especially the third paragraph....

ps. Thanks, Heywooood, for your service....

Pirschjaeger
07-04-2006, 09:29 PM
I would imagine the kids doing this are simply drunk. Drunk at a rebellious age. I doubt this has anything to do with political ideals or free speech.

I think it's about too many beers and intoxicated judgement.

Fritz

jensenpark
07-04-2006, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by huggy87:
No disrespect to canadians... In fact, this is more of a question than a statement. The last canadian generation to be heavily involved in any conflict is at least 80 years old. Compared to america which has been significantly involved in several conflicts since WW2. Has this bred an ambivalence towards veterans among many? It seems that in the US, although there is a very vocal outcry against our leadership, respect for the military and veterans is at an all time high regardless of political persuasion. I'm not trying to diminish canada's involvement in world affairs over the last 60 years, but the military is a very small percentage of the population. Again, I'm not spouting, but hypothesizing. I'm interested in Canadian's viewpoints.
We definately have a disconnect between our military history and the youth of the nation. Myself being one of those youth and at the same time being far more aware than most of my generation its a fair thing to say. But its also what being Canadian is...sounds unusual but it is. We're not much for gloating, we're not much for telling everyone what we did, and while its great that the Americans cherish their troops and their veterans it is all a little over the top to us (I wouldn't call it arrogant but its just not what we do up here).

This is not always a good thing about being humble about the whole thing because nobody (ourselves included) seems to know what Canada did in the two major World Wars or knows what we're doing right now (which is leading the charge against the Taliban in southern Afganistan). The only people who know what Canada did in a major world war are the Belgians who receive significant history in their school system about Canada's contribution to liberating that country. Our veterans did it and we did it with excellence and the Belgians still seem to find us fit to thank.

We're just too humble and it sometimes leads us to situation where ignorance overshadows our humble approach to our military history which is rife with its share of casualties, heros, and hard won victories. I would like to say that you'd be hard done by to find a major conflict in the last 100 years where Canada wasn't somehow involved. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Very well said. We cherish our vets - just in a quieter, different way.

I_KG100_Prien
07-04-2006, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by huggy87:
No disrespect to canadians... In fact, this is more of a question than a statement. The last canadian generation to be heavily involved in any conflict is at least 80 years old. Compared to america which has been significantly involved in several conflicts since WW2. Has this bred an ambivalence towards veterans among many? It seems that in the US, although there is a very vocal outcry against our leadership, respect for the military and veterans is at an all time high regardless of political persuasion. I'm not trying to diminish canada's involvement in world affairs over the last 60 years, but the military is a very small percentage of the population. Again, I'm not spouting, but hypothesizing. I'm interested in Canadian's viewpoints.

Vietnam................................

Never again...... Keep in mind that the shameful way the men and women who fought in Vietnam were treated has a lot to do with why we are so vocal about our support of the troops. Military men of all ages and nations have been good and bad.... mixed in... some have behaved criminally on every side in every conflict... such is the way of war. We here in the U.S. though, realize that for the most part our fighting men and women are doing thier duty... if any scorn or contempt is to be placed at anyones feet it has of late been more so at the feet of the leadership, the politicians who make the decisions to send the soldiers to war.... and deal with them shamefully upon thier return (As in some veterans not getting the support thier families need even while figjhting)... and not on the fighting men themselves... That is one of the lessons the American people learned from Vietnam... and our veterans of that war paid a hard hard price for that lesson.

So today.... we make sure or most of us try to... that they know we are aware of and appreciate thier sacrifices.... Some of them wind up loosing everything but thier lives.... just because they did thier duty.... and of course many make that ultimate sacrifice. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said Bearcat.. One thing as a service member myself always try to get across to people, is they can be against the war all they want. It's their right.. But please don't mock the men and women who are willing to do something that all of these little disrespectful twerps aren't willing to do. Stand up and fight for their country.

We have come a long way since Vietnam, and thankfully. However I don't think the nation has fully recovered from it.

I think one of the most irritating things that I ever had to encounter was when I came back from Iraq.. A whole group of men and women in uniform coming in at the international terminal... When we transferred over to the National terminals and came up to security, we had to do rediculous things like take our boots off before stepping through the metal detectors... and having those sorry a-s-sed TSA jerk offs be rude to us when we questioned why. I don't think I've ever seen a sorrier group of people conducting security checks.

Now, keep in mind this was after we had gone through a very vigorous customs inspection before even getting on the busses to go to Kuwait International Airport.. I mean having to empty our backs out on a table and have everything picked through. So we were about as sterile as sterile gets when it comes to security. The odds of any of us picking up 40lbs of C4 to blow up Atlanta International on the flight over the pond were somewhere around zero..

But.. I digress...

partic_10
07-04-2006, 09:45 PM
Us VS them. Us vs them.
Bash, kill, brutalise!!
That'll fix it!
Kill the sand n*ggers!
Kill the librals (sic)
Our great nation has a manifest destiny given by God to rule the others!
You're either with us or against us!
The press have a patriotic duty not to publish if it could harm our great nation, so bring back hanging for the traitors!

Sorry, and this will probably be my last post, but on the evidence in this forum and elsewhere, I believe many in the West are rapidly sliding into fascism, and I actually know what that word means and I use it seriously. This fact is a far, far, far greater show of disrespect to all those who fought fascism than is any twit pissing on a statue.
"Liberalism" is precisely what made the Western Democracies great (well, relatively). The desperate, dismal, shocking ignorance displayed on this forum in regard to the required elements of a civil society depresses me.

LStarosta
07-04-2006, 10:04 PM
Don't worry, Partic.

Steve_V will lock this thread soon enough. Then he'll ban you. Then 4 hours later, Bearcat will come in, unlock the thread, and share his "words of wisdom" (http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif) before locking it again, satisfied that he had the last word. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Pirschjaeger
07-04-2006, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by jensenpark:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by huggy87:
No disrespect to canadians... In fact, this is more of a question than a statement. The last canadian generation to be heavily involved in any conflict is at least 80 years old. Compared to america which has been significantly involved in several conflicts since WW2. Has this bred an ambivalence towards veterans among many? It seems that in the US, although there is a very vocal outcry against our leadership, respect for the military and veterans is at an all time high regardless of political persuasion. I'm not trying to diminish canada's involvement in world affairs over the last 60 years, but the military is a very small percentage of the population. Again, I'm not spouting, but hypothesizing. I'm interested in Canadian's viewpoints.
We definately have a disconnect between our military history and the youth of the nation. Myself being one of those youth and at the same time being far more aware than most of my generation its a fair thing to say. But its also what being Canadian is...sounds unusual but it is. We're not much for gloating, we're not much for telling everyone what we did, and while its great that the Americans cherish their troops and their veterans it is all a little over the top to us (I wouldn't call it arrogant but its just not what we do up here).

This is not always a good thing about being humble about the whole thing because nobody (ourselves included) seems to know what Canada did in the two major World Wars or knows what we're doing right now (which is leading the charge against the Taliban in southern Afganistan). The only people who know what Canada did in a major world war are the Belgians who receive significant history in their school system about Canada's contribution to liberating that country. Our veterans did it and we did it with excellence and the Belgians still seem to find us fit to thank.

We're just too humble and it sometimes leads us to situation where ignorance overshadows our humble approach to our military history which is rife with its share of casualties, heros, and hard won victories. I would like to say that you'd be hard done by to find a major conflict in the last 100 years where Canada wasn't somehow involved. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Very well said. We cherish our vets - just in a quieter, different way. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with you guyz. It is not uncommon to walk into a Canadians home and find old photos of family in uniform, even going back to WW1.

I wasn't around at the time but it seems to me that when WW1 and WW2 were over, they were truly over for us. It was time to shake hands and make friends.

I always thought that it was the forms and intensity of propaganda that America used/uses that shaped/shapes the postwar thinking of the American populace. The same can be said for the Canadians. I think this is what makes the difference between the two types of postwar attitudes.

I often tell my employees that the best way to beat your enemy is to make friends with him. I think this is why a few Americans call us "elitists". It annoys the hell out of some. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Fritz


Fritz

Jester_159th
07-04-2006, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by partic_10:
Us VS them. Us vs them.
Bash, kill, brutalise!!
That'll fix it!
Kill the sand n*ggers!
Kill the librals (sic)
Our great nation has a manifest destiny given by God to rule the others!
You're either with us or against us!
The press have a patriotic duty not to publish if it could harm our great nation, so bring back hanging for the traitors!

Sorry, and this will probably be my last post, but on the evidence in this forum and elsewhere, I believe many in the West are rapidly sliding into fascism, and I actually know what that word means and I use it seriously. This fact is a far, far, far greater show of disrespect to all those who fought fascism than is any twit pissing on a statue.
"Liberalism" is precisely what made the Western Democracies great (well, relatively). The desperate, dismal, shocking ignorance displayed on this forum in regard to the required elements of a civil society depresses me.

While your views in theory are without doubt well intentioned and based on the highest principles, in practice, where these sentiments are being put into practice they're being taken of advantage of by what we in the UK refer to as "yob" culture.

The net result is while in theory everyone's human rights are being protected, in practice it's the minor criminals (such as the yobs in that article) who are getting a free ride both from the judicial system and society in general. And while the police and courts are wringing their hands over the petty criminals' human rights, the rights of the law abiding and tax paying majority are being ignored and as a result are seeing their quality of life reduced. Since these "enightened" politically correct views have taken hold we've seen an increase in all areas of crime. The reason is simple. Criminals are no longer afraid of the law. In fact most criminals and yobs see the law as a joke.

Let me remind you that the very generations you refer to as defending the Western democracies in the two world wars lived in societies where young offenders would receive corporal punishment (caining, birching etc) and the very idea of a copper on the beat being prosecuted for clipping an errant teenager round the ear would have been laughable. Does that make that generation unenlightened or "fascist?"

I don't think so. Especially not when it also bears pointing out that society in general in those days had far more respect for the law - and for each other - than we do now. As I said in my previous post in this thread, We have lost something our father's and grandfather's generations took for granted. And we won't get it back while the do-gooders are in control and forcing our respective governments to go easy on little thugs who could quite easilly be set right in other "less enlightened" times.

Pirschjaeger
07-04-2006, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by partic_10:
Us VS them. Us vs them.
Bash, kill, brutalise!!
That'll fix it!
Kill the sand n*ggers!
Kill the librals (sic)
Our great nation has a manifest destiny given by God to rule the others!
You're either with us or against us!
The press have a patriotic duty not to publish if it could harm our great nation, so bring back hanging for the traitors!

Sorry, and this will probably be my last post, but on the evidence in this forum and elsewhere, I believe many in the West are rapidly sliding into fascism, and I actually know what that word means and I use it seriously. This fact is a far, far, far greater show of disrespect to all those who fought fascism than is any twit pissing on a statue.
"Liberalism" is precisely what made the Western Democracies great (well, relatively). The desperate, dismal, shocking ignorance displayed on this forum in regard to the required elements of a civil society depresses me.

Keep in mind Partic that this forum doesn't represent all and nearly any. The numbers posting in here are extremely small and have somewht unique ways of thinking.

I know what you are saying and it is frustrating but we must keep things in perspective. It's really a minority that has the majority of publication, but they are not fooling the majority, only themselves.

Fritz

Viper2005_
07-04-2006, 10:46 PM
Good post Pirschjaeger; I hope you're right.

Sadly the other side of the coin is that only a minority bother to vote in many countries these days...

And of course, they generally have a very limited choice!

*edit* PS - whilst you're here, this thread needs chicks!

Von_Rat
07-04-2006, 10:59 PM
i say leave the polictics of the act, out of any punishment they get.

no matter how much what they did pisses you off, calling for ridicolousl punishment because what they did is wrong and silly.

they committed a crime, and they should be punished to the very fullest extent of the law.

i think desent is just fine, but if you commit a crime while dissenting, you gotta pay the price.

Old_Canuck
07-04-2006, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by LStarosta:
Don't worry, Partic.

Steve_V will lock this thread soon enough. Then he'll ban you. Then 4 hours later, Bearcat will come in, unlock the thread, and share his "words of wisdom" (http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif) before locking it again, satisfied that he had the last word. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

+1 .. oops .. banned again......

Enforcer572005
07-04-2006, 11:50 PM
I believe that desecration of a grave is illegal in any western country, I know it is in all the states.

We had some maggots here in my Ga. town vandalize historical and military graves in a large hillside cemetary where President Wilson's first wife is buried, as well as the last American KIA of WW1 (the "known soldiers grave").

They bragged to thier friends and got nabbed, and there was much demand for thier lynching of course. Most of them had no political thoughts, just vandalism, though one did try to make such statements as a defence. One of the graves they damaged was the Mrs. Wilson's.

Its just natural for low lifes to have no respect for the military or anyone else.

And it never fails that an indication of such outrage or news of a relatives service in the current war brings cries of "fascist" or comparisons to soldiers fighting terrorists as "waffen SS" blah blah etc. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I really get sick of that PC **** after a while.These punks should realistically be cellmate girlfriends to some guy named mongo for a few mos. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

Enforcer572005
07-04-2006, 11:52 PM
OH GOOD GOD!! the word c-r-a-p gets censored by the nanny? gimme a break man. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

partic_10
07-05-2006, 12:51 AM
I'm actually not as pink as some might think.
I agree about the importance of respect and the fact that western people have developed and entitlement complex, which is quickly assumed by immigrants who want to share the wealth of their new country without sharing the labour. I am a believer in market economics and believe the welfare state (especially the corporate welfare so disastrously practiced by the US Fed) is causing inflation that will destroy the world economy soon. But the careless patriotism of the brainwashed sheeple is the scariest thing there is. Why? Because the game we play is proof that it causes suffering on an unimaginable scale.

HotelBushranger
07-05-2006, 04:44 AM
The same thing happened here in Australia. In one of our states Victoria, some bloody bastard punks vandalised a cemetry of men involved in the Eureka Stockade, a very significant part of Australian history. Some tombstones where damaged to the point that they cannot be repaired. And these are old tombstones, considering the Stockade was in 1854. Some people have absolutely no respect for the dead or veterans, really gives me the ****s and I'd love to make them suffer.

Choctaw111
07-05-2006, 05:36 AM
The punishment should fit the crime. I am sure that after those photos were published in the news paper it would not have been hard to find some combat veterans who lost their buddies in war who would have been willing to p!ss on those young punks in the same way they p!ssed on that memorial.
After the dowsing session had been completed I think that an educational program of sorts would be in order to inform the young urinators in question of the sacrifices that have been made by the over 100,000 (in Canada) soldiers who gave their lives for their freedom. THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE THE FREEDOM TO DESCECRATE THE MEMORY OF THOSE SOLDIERS SACRIFICES WHO GAVE THEM THEIR FREEDOM IN THE FIREST PLACE!!! FREEDOM IS NOT FREE AND THOSE SOLDIERS HAVE PAID FOR IT DEARLY!!! Just my thoughts but perhaps something along those lines just may change the view of a person who would be willing to defile a sacred memorial in such a way.

RCAF_Irish_403
07-05-2006, 05:46 AM
Originally posted by partic_10:
I'm actually not as pink as some might think.
I agree about the importance of respect and the fact that western people have developed and entitlement complex, which is quickly assumed by immigrants who want to share the wealth of their new country without sharing the labour. I am a believer in market economics and believe the welfare state (especially the corporate welfare so disastrously practiced by the US Fed) is causing inflation that will destroy the world economy soon. But the careless patriotism of the brainwashed sheeple is the scariest thing there is. Why? Because the game we play is proof that it causes suffering on an unimaginable scale.

Relax Partic...coming from a "lighter shade of Pinko" myself i've learned to keep my mouth shut when other are having their Bill O'Reilly moments http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Put into perspective: Some drunk hoodlum peeing on a war memorial is gonna get fined by the law....nothing to see here, move along...personally i've seen far more outrageous things committed against the living by big business/the govt.

Friendly_flyer
07-05-2006, 05:58 AM
I still think a bit of community service with veterans would be the best way to handle this. The youngsters will hopefully learn bit become productive members of society. And it€s not like they did anything to the monument that the next shower won€t fix.

Giving them an public beating or reducing ourselves to the same level and urinating on their houses (where probably their innocent parents live too) is not only lowering our self to their standards, it's lowering ourselves to the very state of barbarism that the soldiers commemorated fought against in the first place.

Knee jerk reactions of€they should be whipped and then possibly executed for taking a leak at a memorial€ are the chimpanzee in us speaking.

danjama
07-05-2006, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by Jester_159th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by partic_10:
Us VS them. Us vs them.
Bash, kill, brutalise!!
That'll fix it!
Kill the sand n*ggers!
Kill the librals (sic)
Our great nation has a manifest destiny given by God to rule the others!
You're either with us or against us!
The press have a patriotic duty not to publish if it could harm our great nation, so bring back hanging for the traitors!

Sorry, and this will probably be my last post, but on the evidence in this forum and elsewhere, I believe many in the West are rapidly sliding into fascism, and I actually know what that word means and I use it seriously. This fact is a far, far, far greater show of disrespect to all those who fought fascism than is any twit pissing on a statue.
"Liberalism" is precisely what made the Western Democracies great (well, relatively). The desperate, dismal, shocking ignorance displayed on this forum in regard to the required elements of a civil society depresses me.

While your views in theory are without doubt well intentioned and based on the highest principles, in practice, where these sentiments are being put into practice they're being taken of advantage of by what we in the UK refer to as "yob" culture.

The net result is while in theory everyone's human rights are being protected, in practice it's the minor criminals (such as the yobs in that article) who are getting a free ride both from the judicial system and society in general. And while the police and courts are wringing their hands over the petty criminals' human rights, the rights of the law abiding and tax paying majority are being ignored and as a result are seeing their quality of life reduced. Since these "enightened" politically correct views have taken hold we've seen an increase in all areas of crime. The reason is simple. Criminals are no longer afraid of the law. In fact most criminals and yobs see the law as a joke.

Let me remind you that the very generations you refer to as defending the Western democracies in the two world wars lived in societies where young offenders would receive corporal punishment (caining, birching etc) and the very idea of a copper on the beat being prosecuted for clipping an errant teenager round the ear would have been laughable. Does that make that generation unenlightened or "fascist?"

I don't think so. Especially not when it also bears pointing out that society in general in those days had far more respect for the law - and for each other - than we do now. As I said in my previous post in this thread, We have lost something our father's and grandfather's generations took for granted. And we won't get it back while the do-gooders are in control and forcing our respective governments to go easy on little thugs who could quite easilly be set right in other "less enlightened" times. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The thing is, you are being too general. I am young. I live in England (london to be exact). I grew up in this so called "yob" culture, seeing it all first hand. Yet i turned out pretty good, if i may say so myself.

Am i the exception? Can't be. Most of my friends are just like me. And most of the people my age i come into contact with are like me. So i can't understand this generalisation of my generation that you are making. Maybe you, and others, are out of touch? Wake up and try to see the reality. Dont generalise my generation. Realise that these yob criminals are isolated situations mosltly. Yes, i do agree that the law is nothing to be afraid of these days, but is that a motivation to go out and do bull**** like these ******s?

No.

Bremspropeller
07-05-2006, 08:26 AM
Dan, listen to The Who's "My Generation".

The same stuff happens all over again.

Even those wheelchair-jocks here have been young....quite some time ago... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Pirschjaeger
07-05-2006, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by Viper2005_:
Good post Pirschjaeger; I hope you're right.

Sadly the other side of the coin is that only a minority bother to vote in many countries these days...

And of course, they generally have a very limited choice!

*edit* PS - whilst you're here, this thread needs chicks!

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a198/FritzFranzen/untitled3.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Jester_159th
07-05-2006, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by danjama:
The thing is, you are being too general. I am young. I live in England (london to be exact). I grew up in this so called "yob" culture, seeing it all first hand. Yet i turned out pretty good, if i may say so myself.

Am i the exception? Can't be. Most of my friends are just like me. And most of the people my age i come into contact with are like me. So i can't understand this generalisation of my generation that you are making. Maybe you, and others, are out of touch? Wake up and try to see the reality. Dont generalise my generation. Realise that these yob criminals are isolated situations mosltly. Yes, i do agree that the law is nothing to be afraid of these days, but is that a motivation to go out and do bull**** like these ******s?

No.

You're absolutely right. I was generalising, and if I caused you any offence I apologise. As you say, it is the minority that get the majority a bad name (always has been I'm afraid). The thing is an intelligent young person would not be effected if harsher punishments were brought back since they would understand the importance of respecting the law and other's rights and feelings. The only ones who would be effected would be those who for whatever reason refuse to respect others.

However this "yob" behaviour is not as isolated as you seem to think it is. And it's obviously not a British problem but a worldwide one. I don't think "my" generation (thanks for making me feel really old by using that phrase BTW!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ) is out of touch. If you watch your local news, and the national news, read the papers etc there's not a week goes by without incidents that can generally be described as "Yob" behaviour happening somewhere. I don't know about London, but here in West Yorkshire where I live our local Police forces are so busy with yob behaviour (especially on a Friday or Saturday night) that they have little time for anything else (serious crime excepted needless to say, but even here their response time is severely legnthened on these nights).

The other thing that you need to remember is that if you teach yobs that the law doesn't have to be respected (as is happening at the moment by our courts and Police's lax attitude to dealing with them and the laughable so called punishments they receive), you make them think that they can do whatever they want. The result of this is at least some of these little morons will turn to more serious crime (especially when combined with the growing drug problems some of our cities face). We've seen a perfect example of this in recent months in the town where I live. I can assure you that the one's calling for harsher punishments are not the ones walking around with their eyes shut. And although I'll grant some of the suggested punishments in this thread are extreme to say the least, but that's purely a symptom of how frustrated people are becoming at what seems to be our respective governments total inability to counter the rise of this behaviour purely because they're scared of upsetting the politically correct segment of our society.

danjama
07-05-2006, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by Jester_159th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
The thing is, you are being too general. I am young. I live in England (london to be exact). I grew up in this so called "yob" culture, seeing it all first hand. Yet i turned out pretty good, if i may say so myself.

Am i the exception? Can't be. Most of my friends are just like me. And most of the people my age i come into contact with are like me. So i can't understand this generalisation of my generation that you are making. Maybe you, and others, are out of touch? Wake up and try to see the reality. Dont generalise my generation. Realise that these yob criminals are isolated situations mosltly. Yes, i do agree that the law is nothing to be afraid of these days, but is that a motivation to go out and do bull**** like these ******s?

No.

You're absolutely right. I was generalising, and if I caused you any offence I apologise. As you say, it is the minority that get the majority a bad name (always has been I'm afraid). The thing is an intelligent young person would not be effected if harsher punishments were brought back since they would understand the importance of respecting the law and other's rights and feelings. The only ones who would be effected would be those who for whatever reason refuse to respect others.

However this "yob" behaviour is not as isolated as you seem to think it is. And it's obviously not a British problem but a worldwide one. I don't think "my" generation (thanks for making me feel really old by using that phrase BTW!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ) is out of touch. If you watch your local news, and the national news, read the papers etc there's not a week goes by without incidents that can generally be described as "Yob" behaviour happening somewhere. I don't know about London, but here in West Yorkshire where I live our local Police forces are so busy with yob behaviour (especially on a Friday or Saturday night) that they have little time for anything else (serious crime excepted needless to say, but even here their response time is severely legnthened on these nights).

The other thing that you need to remember is that if you teach yobs that the law doesn't have to be respected (as is happening at the moment by our courts and Police's lax attitude to dealing with them and the laughable so called punishments they receive), you make them think that they can do whatever they want. The result of this is at least some of these little morons will turn to more serious crime (especially when combined with the growing drug problems some of our cities face). We've seen a perfect example of this in recent months in the town where I live. I can assure you that the one's calling for harsher punishments are not the ones walking around with their eyes shut. And although I'll grant some of the suggested punishments in this thread are extreme to say the least, but that's purely a symptom of how frustrated people are becoming at what seems to be our respective governments total inability to counter the rise of this behaviour purely because they're scared of upsetting the politically correct segment of our society. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, i wasnt offended, i agree with you mostly, and sorry for making you feel old http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

However, we must remember that in this age, media has an effect on everything. We are able to read and watch news on this kind of behaviour, because it is publicised!! This affects our views a bit, as you can imagine. Twenty or thirty years ago, you would only hear stuff about yob behavious in your local towns by word of mouth or local newspapers. Now we are seeing and hearing it all the time. So although incidents may not be isolated as such, they are certainly exaggerated, if anything, subconciously.

I agree 100%, behaviour of some people my age on fridays and saturdays is way out of control. But IMHO, there are too many factors to list why it is the way it is now. We can't just say oh its because of this or this. People are people, and they are the way they are for numerous reasons. Thats why it is difficult to generalise. But of course, the law needs to be enforced on people like this, neglecting any outside factors. Nobody has an excuse to act the way these people have.

To be honest, i think two major factors are (you guessed it) the parents, and the education system. The law would be a by-product, as you learn it through these sources. If parents taught their kids respect, and controlled them, and schools taught kids properly (which i wholeheartedly believe is not happening, i never learned **** at school thats helped me) then we would have a much more plausible society. But thats not the way it is right now, and something drastic needs to be done to change the way society is moving.

knightflyte
07-05-2006, 09:35 AM
I agree that some of our responses to the offence was over the top....(and in some cases really really unnecessary - mine included)...we are expressing our outrage at the callous unthinking nature of the teens actions.

Thinking of the history of the American Vets I am diheartened about how they were treated by the folks back home upon their return from Vietnam.

I believe that's why we ARE so vocal. Vets remember.... so do those who believe that being a voulunteer soldier is one of the largest sacrifices a person can make for his country.

So desecrating a monument to soldiers means a lot in light of that context in history. That's why the over the top responses.

Mix that in to the comparable light sentences to the corporate raiders and people are frustrated tht on almost every level crime and justice is laughed at.

Now for the reality..... we're in a forum. It's easy to say that the best solution is to hold them upside down and have a vet urinate on them....or what ever other disgusting thing was suggested. I don't believe for a moment that if they were to REALLY have the ability to hand out punishments anything so draconian would be done. I'd think that most would hand out community service and a decent size fine.

AKA_TAGERT
07-05-2006, 09:45 AM
who knew that it was only a mater of time before people came along to make excuses for this bastards.. They were drunk.. They put too much sugar on their cereal.. They don€t understand politics.. They didn€t have a good father figure in their life.. Therefore they shouldn€t be judge so hard.. PLEASE! Those are all fine REASONS for what they did but NOT fine EXCUSES for what they did!

What we need is a little LESS understanding! I dont care what led up to the act, just the act. Make an example of them and get them out of the gene pool!

Pirschjaeger
07-05-2006, 09:47 AM
Dan, I must say you've impressed me with your posts. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Brems, our little Dan is growing up so fast. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

I have to point something out to everyone though. Once again, these guyz were probably drunk and I doubt they would have done the same thing sober. I also think this is nothing new. Only the publicizing of photos is new.

But it is easier to talk about something like this rather than rape, race crimes, or crimes against humanity. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

ddpairborne59
07-05-2006, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
It's a pitty how some individuals show a lack of understanding.

If I had to say something, I'd bind him and let all those, who lost a loved one in the war p*ss on him. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

SeaFireLIV
07-05-2006, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
who knew that it was only a mater of time before people came along to make excuses for this bastards.. They were drunk.. They put too much sugar on their cereal.. They don€t understand politics.. They didn€t have a good father figure in their life.. Therefore they shouldn€t be judge so hard.. PLEASE! Those are all fine REASONS for what they did but NOT fine EXCUSES for what they did!

What we need is a little LESS understanding! I dont care what led up to the act, just the act. Make an example of them and get them out of the gene pool!

Man, I must be becoming more right-wing , cos I agree with him http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif. Actually, I don`t believe it`s about political leanings as much as some say, although I do believe liberals (if that`s the right word) have caused bad things to happen out of trying to be too good. Sometimes a kid needs a slap not just nice words. It`s simply about common decent respect for the Men who died for us in their thousands and not JUST in WWII.

And just so me and TAGERT can argue in the future I`m still more lefty than righty. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

panther3485
07-05-2006, 11:12 AM
Vandalism of any sort should be regarded as an offence and treated accordingly by the law.

When the vandalism involves graves or memorials of any kind (be they war or otherwise), these are especially sensitive because of the extreme offence and hurt caused. Accordingly, stiffer penalties should apply here.

Account should also be taken of the costs involved in making good any physical property damages.

Having said all the above, perspective is also needed. While urinating on a memorial will be taken as an extremely offensive and disrespectful act, the actual damages are likely to be slight through to nil. Easily fixed with soapy water in most instances.

I have seen war memorials daubed with paint, slogans, graffiti; and physically damaged.

All these offences should be dealt with according to degree, provided the perpetrators are caught of course. As for the rest, society in general will rightly hold in contempt the individuals responsible. They will only be 'heroes' in the eyes of a twisted minority.

I think some of the reactions evident on this thread are extreme, however. Offensive as these acts may be, there are far worse crimes being committed daily.


Best regards to all,
panther3485
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Pirschjaeger
07-05-2006, 12:25 PM
Tarred and feathered I say!

Panther is right, soap and water would repair the damage. But let's punish the caught culprits accordingly. Let them do the cleaning in broad daylight with full media coverage.

Let's see if they can walk away heads held high.

Bremspropeller
07-05-2006, 12:36 PM
You know what the problem is ?

Those buggers simply don't know what the people that are to be remembered at those places have been through. They don't know, wwhat those peeople fought for: democracy, freedom and liberty.
Those idiots take these items for granted.
They can't even imagine a life without those items.

They'd be best served in a military bootcamp, where those items are partly gone for a while.

Only there they'd learn to appreciate what the vets fought and died for.

Jester_159th
07-05-2006, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
Dan, I must say you've impressed me with your posts. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


+1.

RCAF_Irish_403
07-05-2006, 01:30 PM
Honestly, i couldn't ascribe political motives for this...i don't think the dude has enough brain cells to develope that line of thinking.

As far as insulting Vets, i think that slashing VA benefits and denying the effects of Agent Orange for decades pretty much equals p*ssing on them

AKA_TAGERT
07-06-2006, 12:07 AM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Man, I must be becoming more right-wing , cos I agree with him http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif. Actually, I don`t believe it`s about political leanings as much as some say, although I do believe liberals (if that`s the right word) have caused bad things to happen out of trying to be too good. Sometimes a kid needs a slap not just nice words. It`s simply about common decent respect for the Men who died for us in their thousands and not JUST in WWII. Don€t feel bad.. It is actually kind of natural.. to a point.

There is an old saying.. If NOT a Liberal in your teens and twentys.. you have NO HART.. If your still a Liberal in your 30 you have NO BRAIN!

It takes time.. hopefully somewhere in your 30s you turn it around and you realize that you can not make excuses for peoples actions.. Trying to understand what happened in their lives to bring them to the point of "THE ACT" only opens you up to an ENDLESS line of excuses! Dont get me wrong.. trying to understand the REASON is great.. Might help someone else so they dont make the same mistake with thier kids.. but understanding it does NOT excuse them from it!

So.. YES I am sorry if someone did something because their daddy beat them with a belt or their mom drank during their pregnancy.. Those are all fine REASONS for why they did what they did.. BUT NOT AN EXCUSE!

Plenty of OTHER people were beat with belts and mothers drank and they were able to learn right from wrong and lead normal lives! So.. if the few that are weaker.. for what ever reason.. be it genetic or environment..

TOO BAD! LIFE IS NOT FAIR!

We can not allow all to be excused for everything based on what a few bad apples had done to them! It is that line of psyco babble excuse making from the 60s and 70s that has brought us to where we are today!

MAKING EXCUSES FOR SOME KID THAT PISSED ON A VETRANS MAMORIAL!

Vetrans who gave thier life to protect thier way of life for thier family and future familys! The ONLY way someone can EXCUSE those actioins if they themselfs have a low regard for vetrans! Thus, those types are no better than the guy who peed on the monument IMHO! Maybe even worse because by simply patting them on the wrist invites more and worse of these kind of "acts" because they know they can get away with it by simply working the system and playing the POOR ME CARD!


Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
And just so me and TAGERT can argue in the future I`m still more lefty than righty. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif On that note how old are you? Less than 30? If so.. no problem.. give it time! You WILL come around! I use to make excuses for these types and bought into all the psycho babble coddling ideas of the 60s and 70s but not any more!

What we need now, to turn things around, is LESS understanding!

Oh and a lot less lawyers and psychiatrists! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

danjama
07-06-2006, 04:16 AM
Originally posted by Jester_159th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
Dan, I must say you've impressed me with your posts. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


+1. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

danjama
07-06-2006, 04:18 AM
Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
You know what the problem is ?

Those buggers simply don't know what the people that are to be remembered at those places have been through. They don't know, wwhat those peeople fought for: democracy, freedom and liberty.
Those idiots take these items for granted.
They can't even imagine a life without those items.

They'd be best served in a military bootcamp, where those items are partly gone for a while.

Only there they'd learn to appreciate what the vets fought and died for.

Ys, but whos responsibility do you think it is to teach them this stuff?

The schools? The parents? The media?

All 3 have some part in it i think, but they're not fulfilling their roles. In particular, i think the media really needs to step up (how many key dates a year do they miss on TV?).

Bremspropeller
07-06-2006, 04:24 AM
Well, does "military draft" ring a bell ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Some kids badly deserve a kick in the ***.

danjama
07-06-2006, 04:33 AM
Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
Well, does "military draft" ring a bell ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Some kids badly deserve a kick in the ***.

+1

I do like the idea of mandatory military service, but not when a country is at war. In wartime, service should be voluntary i believe.

But yea, military service would sort out alot of things wrong with the way young society is now, that is my honest opinion.

SeaFireLIV
07-06-2006, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
On that note how old are you? Less than 30? If so.. no problem.. give it time! You WILL come around! I use to make excuses for these types and bought into all the psycho babble coddling ideas of the 60s and 70s but not any more!



Liberal? Hmmm, I don`t know what you`re interpreatation of that word is indicating. I notice Americans have a slightly different view of the word `Liberal`. I might be left of centre, but I would not call myself a liberal... In fact a lot of my friends think I`m right-wing. This is because they misunderstand the meaning of RESPECT and HONOUR, DECENCY to your fellow man. Everything you say in your example I agree with. I don`t agree with the **** excuses you hear about this or that when a crimes is committed. If some kid attacks an old man (or anyone) for 10 then says its cos of drugs or he was beaten or whatever that won`t save him from punishment; if someone tells me somebody else told him to do it doesn`t matter. HE STILL HAD THE FREE WILL TO KNOW WHAT HE WAS DOING WAS RIGHT OR WRONG. HE STILL HAS THE FREE WILL TO STOP.

Being drunk, on drugs or plain mad is no excuse for disrespect or causing harm on others. If you`re drunk and you tell a lie, you still KNOW you tell a lie.

Anyway, I may have no brains cos I`m 39 and still a lefty, but that`s better than being a righty and making cut-off assumptions about age and politics.

RCAF_Irish_403
07-06-2006, 07:59 AM
SeaFire: SHHHH....you're going to royally f*ck up Tagerts assumptions with that kinda talk

*edit*...unless you're schooled in American political vernacular Targ's rants sound like he's railing against the political right http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

stef51
07-06-2006, 08:13 AM
Taken from National Post...

"A retired Canadian military major, Michel Pilon, saw the man and two of his friends urinate on the memorial at about 11 p.m. Saturday, according to Ottawa police Sgt. Jean Lamothe. Pilon took photos and asked one of the men why he would do such a thing to the landmark if he was from Ottawa, Lamothe said.

"He replied (in English): 'I'm not from Ottawa. I'm from Montreal,' " Lamothe said.

They could be charged with public urination or behaving in an offensive manner, and fined $125.

A Second World War veteran from Montreal yesterday offered $1,000 to anyone who provides information leading to the arrest and conviction of any of the men who urinated on the memorial.

The donor, who is in his early 80s and wishes to remain anonymous, pledged the reward when he called the Sun Youth Organization.

"Here's a Montrealer pledging this reward for something another Montrealer did," said Sid Stevens, executive vice-president of Sun Youth. "What those guys did is not a reflection on this city. We have a lot of Montrealers who are great role models," Stevens said.

Ottawa police made pictures available yesterday to the press that clearly identifying two men - including one who was already pictured in the Ottawa Citizen and The Gazette - urinating on the memorial on Canada Day, and requested the public's help to identify them. A third man was also reported to be involved in the incident.

Anyone with information about the men who urinated on the memorial is asked to call Ottawa police Det. Mike Walker at 613-236-1222, Local 5166."


Well, since I live in Quebec city, I certainly feel better that the police is taking care of things though the 125$ fine is kinda.... cheap to me.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

And sorry to add the police number phone if it's against the rules but it could be useful if someone here saw them and if they live in Montreal and read this thread .... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Stephen

Bo_Nidle
07-06-2006, 09:18 AM
Every democracy has an imbecilic minority that abuses the liberty they enjoy without regard to the brave individuals that won it for them.

These dregs of society should be dealt with by the law in the normal fashion and then disregarded by all as it is publicity these cretins desire. Deny them this publicity and they are just another idiot that does not deserve any more media attention than the average drunk slumped in a doorway of any city on a Saturday night.

One day these leftist idiots will grow up and look back in shame...or become politicians and form the UK government.

RCAF_Irish_403
07-06-2006, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by Bo_Nidle:
Every democracy has an imbecilic minority that abuses the liberty they enjoy without regard to the brave individuals that won it for them.

These dregs of society should be dealt with by the law in the normal fashion and then disregarded by all as it is publicity these cretins desire. Deny them this publicity and they are just another idiot that does not deserve any more media attention than the average drunk slumped in a doorway of any city on a Saturday night.

One day these leftist idiots will grow up and look back in shame...or become politicians and form the UK government.

See, that's the problem...why is evryone assuming the p*ss dude is on the political left?