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Waldo.Pepper
08-21-2007, 04:37 PM
http://en.sevenload.com/videos/ZgEywUz/20070702F14vsMonster

scaredycat1
08-21-2007, 04:44 PM
Thats sad.. a belitteling end to a graceful bird

Choctaw111
08-21-2007, 04:53 PM
That was interesting. They must have edited the sound on that I would think...but why?

berg417448
08-21-2007, 04:57 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-07-02-shredding-tomcats_N.htm

-HH- Beebop
08-21-2007, 10:37 PM
20 odd year down the line someone will be saying "too bad we didn't keep more of those planes around."
Cool vid Waldo. I can see a kid looking at that (much like the kid inside me) and saying "I want to run one of those when I grow up."

...'Cause that IS what I want to do when I grow up. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif
What a neat machine.

Friendly_flyer
08-22-2007, 01:13 AM
That's a sad way to go...

skarden
08-22-2007, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by Friendly_flyer:
That's a sad way to go...

+1 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Capt.LoneRanger
08-22-2007, 08:05 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

huggy87
08-22-2007, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by Friendly_flyer:
That's a sad way to go...

Yes. We should have given the to Iran so we have some future targets.

hi_stik
08-22-2007, 09:08 AM
I'm all for keeping F-14's away from terrorists. Shred away!

GIAP.Shura
08-22-2007, 09:25 AM
Yeah...they might...uhhh...smuggle one onto a plane? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

BSS_Goat
08-22-2007, 09:39 AM
I tell ya what...those dudes could run the **** out of that equipment.

Capt.LoneRanger
08-22-2007, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by hi_stik:
I'm all for keeping F-14's away from terrorists. Shred away!

Why? Didn't you hear about those F14s that were turned against the US? They simply didn't fire because of some miracle-software-problem. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BirdieNum-nums
08-22-2007, 10:08 AM
I saw an F-14 at an airshow in London, Ontario, Canada, back in 1983. I was 13 years old, and my Mom drove 200 kilometers so that I could see it. It was probably the most impressive aircraft I've ever seen fly. The film Top Gun came out 1 year later, turning the F-14 into the best known US Navy jet, around the world.

It feels good knowing I've seen fly at least once. I still remember how loud the damn thing was!! Unbelievable!!! But for the record, an older McDonnell Douglas F-101 Voodoo, at the same airshow, seemed just as loud!

Cheers,
Birdie Num-nums

BrotherVoodoo
08-22-2007, 10:17 AM
That clip was sad man. No plane should have to go down like that.

AVG_WarHawk
08-22-2007, 12:38 PM
The F-14 is extremely obsolete. look how poorly it did against the monster, wasn't even a challenge.

Billy_BigBoy
08-22-2007, 01:31 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Couldn't watch the whole video http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

R_Target
08-22-2007, 01:35 PM
The last vestiges of the old Grumman company disappear into the dust. Hopefully they won't shred the LEM.

T_O_A_D
08-22-2007, 01:49 PM
I rather see them turned into playground equipment than ever watch that again.

Dang it looked like a couple of mechanical vultures picking at a Bald Eagles Carcass http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Although looking at it from an Equipment Operators pespective, Those guys are quite good with their equipment.

Daiichidoku
08-22-2007, 02:09 PM
the best way for a TC to go.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qMtnFtB38I

Billy_BigBoy
08-22-2007, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by T_O_A_D:
Although looking at it from an Equipment Operators pespective, Those guys are quite good with their equipment.

I still don't like them http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

flaming_onion
08-22-2007, 02:37 PM
I am reminded of the last couple of photos in a book I own about the BAe Lightning. A handful of Lightnings flipped upside down, looking like so many dead insects.http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

WarWolfe_1
08-22-2007, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
http://en.sevenload.com/videos/ZgEywUz/20070702F14vsMonster

OMG that was horrible!


20 odd year down the line someone will be saying "too bad we didn't keep more of those planes around."
This is the same thing said about so many WW2 planes today too.


I rather see them turned into playground equipment than ever watch that again.
At least then we could take our kids to them, point and say "That plane was an Icon for 30 years."

Korolov1986
08-22-2007, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by -HH- Beebop:
20 odd year down the line someone will be saying "too bad we didn't keep more of those planes around."


And you'll have 50 other guys saying "I'm glad we didn't keep those around anymore." http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Keep in mind people, an F-14 isn't the same as a F4U, F6F, P-51, etc. I doubt those were rated for sustained 7G+ turns and capable of going Mach 2.

I'd just as soon not have technology of ours - even old - fall into hostile hands.

Daiichidoku
08-22-2007, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by Korolov1986:
I'd just as soon not have technology of ours - even old - fall into hostile hands.

why not? either they wont be able to keep em going, or utilise most of what they learn, or it will bankupt them trying

Iran has had TCs for years...they even managed to fly them a few times!

Korolov1986
08-22-2007, 08:10 PM
Iran is hardly the issue. They already have a support system in place for their F-14s AFAIK. Iran isn't the only place on the planet that would like to get their hands on some tech - especially taken in context to relative available technology in a lot of places.

MrMojok
08-22-2007, 08:42 PM
When I was a kid in the 1970s, schools had a program where you could buy kids books very cheap. The teacher would hand out a catalog, and you would select what you wanted and in a couple of weeks they would be delivered and handed out at school.

Anyway, in about 1975 or 1976, I bought a book about modern (at the time) military aircraft. Each page had a couple of pics of an aircraft and some statistics such as top speed, armament, etc. I remember flipping through this thing and coming to the page about the (at the time) new F-14. There were two pics, one with the wings swept back, another with the wings fully forward. The swept wings, the double vertical stabs on the tail... I thought it was quite simply the coolest thing I had ever seen in my life. That one page of the book was the beginning of my lifelong passion for military aviation.

I cannot even begin to describe how sickened that video made me feel.

Enforcer572005
08-22-2007, 09:47 PM
Beebop was right...one way or another, we could wish we hadn't done that. As for the idiotic excuse that it keeps them out of Iranian hands, that's about the silliest thing I've heard in at least a yr. You just don't give em any. Rest assured that nobody is gonna sneak into the boneyard at Davis Monthan and steal any.

We've got hundreds of F-16s, F-15s, and F-18s there, and not one has fallen into hostile hands. Scrapping them is stupid. I could see retiring them due to the excessive man hrs it kept to keep them flying , but they were still quite competive with any modern fighter.

Plus they could blow you out of the air reliably at over 100 miles. I think they are only gonna keep 157 of them, but there are hysterical voices who have no concept of reality wanting to scrap them to.

BTW, the Iranians still have about 20 or so in service, making parts themselves, not using many american ones. A flight of 16 were encountered by F-18 pilots a couple of yrs ago supposedly.

Waldo.Pepper
08-22-2007, 10:01 PM
More sadness. This Blenheim was sacrificed in 1966. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/sad%20blenheim/SadendforaBlenheim.jpg

-HH- Beebop
08-22-2007, 10:58 PM
Waldo, Hows that Handly Page Hampden
http://www.canadianflight.org/collect/col_11b.jpg
doing at the Canadian Flight Museum?
any progress on the restoration?

Waldo.Pepper
08-23-2007, 03:58 PM
any progress on the restoration?

Oh my I think that they are done you know! I think all that they intended/were able to do ($$$ perhaps) was what they called a "cosmetic restoration."

When I first visited the museum in 1991 the plane had been pulled from the ocean a few years earlier. The guy who did most of the work of the restoration worked in the factory building the thing in the first place. (you can imagine his age in 1991.) Anyway for the amount of cash they had and the resources I think they did well. I wish it was perfect but perfection costs big bucks.

I posted a little video from 1991 on youtube showing what they had to work with. I was sure I made a link in these forums when I posted it but in case I did not here she is as she was in 1991.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMVV34nIsGc

SNACKY-353rd
08-23-2007, 04:04 PM
I remember the first time I stood next to an F14D+ on CAT2 ready for the shot. The barrier came up, burners lit up, teeth chattering, flight deck rumbling, Hand salute- BOOM! Launch the Big Cat!
There will never be another aircraft like it. Aircraft will be more advanced and computers have taken over, but no other aircraft exibits that kind of power.
She will be missed.

At some point someone has to do a good Tomcat sim. She was too good at what she did and was too popular not to.

Shakthamac
08-23-2007, 04:21 PM
that might have been one of the saddest videos i have ever seen. Its interesting to note that one of the primary reasons for the F14's retirement was the lack of a long range, blue water threat (the soviets), and yet, in the very recent news, I think I have read that Russia is trying to rebuild their navy. Couple that with China's growing military size and we are gonna wish we had an air superiority fighter with the Tomcat's capabilities. Sure the F/A 18E has a better maintenance record than the F14, but (to quote a line from Air and Space) its like comparing a brand new Honda Accord to a classic Corvette.

It just isn't as good, period.

Korolov1986
08-23-2007, 05:47 PM
Let's clear up a few things, people.

- Not *all* (to my knowledge) F-14s are being scrapped. Some will, some won't.

- Scrapping those aircraft generates a fair chunk of revenue. There's a lot of valuable metals in those airframes.

- Iran doesn't *need* F-14 parts; rather, they want F-14 improvements. Keep in mind Iran received a special export version of the F-14 that cannot be compared with later revisions such as the F-14D. They came very close to getting access to these revisions and that's why there is so much stink being raised about the issue right now.

- The missile that gave the F-14 it's extreme "reach out and touch someone" capability was retired 2 years before the jet itself was retired. Say what you want, but the AIM-54 was not a very good (or reliable) long range weapon. Now on that note, you can say that the AIM-120 could/would/should have been adapted to the airframe, but there again, you're updating a (at the time) 20 year old airframe due for retirement in the next 10 years at a huge price tag that may not be able to counter tomorrow's threats. It's like using a P-51 to fight a MiG-15: you can do it, but it's not really cost effective and there's a lot of risk involved.

- The aircraft itself was designed in the late 60s. That means it never took advantage of knowledge acquired in the 70s and 80s in the field of aerospace. Remember it was designed at a time when designs were still coming off the drawing boards at a fairly rapid pace.

- Cost of maintenance and time of maintenance was soaring for the F-14 in recent years. What good is the aircraft if it's sitting in the hangar all the time?

- Complex aircraft. Like the Space Shuttle, the F-14 was a advanced, capable, and highly complex aircraft. This means: you're left with a aircraft that requires precise maintenance, skilled operation, and greater overall headaches when dealing with the aircraft. Also, that complexity costs you big bucks - the F-14D cost $74 million per aircraft. Granted, that figure would have been cheaper if more were acquired.

- Mixed fleet of aircraft. You have F-14As, F-14Bs, F-14Ds all over the fleet, each one with different systems. To upgrade all to the D standard would have cost $$$ and cut into the Navy's budget for other projects (at the time, the A-6's perceived replacement.)

- Limited capability. The F-14 was - bar none - designed to go out and shoot bombers down (don't tell me fighters - that was secondary of importance.) It's arsenal essentially consisted of AIM-9, AIM-7, and AIM-54 for the majority of it's career. Dropping iron came at a point when they realized that's all they'd be able to use it for in the coming future. Sadly, in this regard it in no way can compete with aircraft such as the A-6 - which, as we all know, was retired for pretty much the same reasons as the F-14. There really was no replacement for the A-6, and I think that has been a serious mistake.

Don't get me wrong, I like the F-14 just as much as the next guy; it was an icon of aviation - and America in general - for the past 30 years. But 30 years is an eternity in aerospace development.

Now, keep in mind that budget is everything. You can do nothing unless you have the dough. We simply do not have access to the huge gobs of defense funding that we did in the mid-80s anymore. The Navy was caught between a rock and a hard place - either get a new airframe that can at least fill some capacity left behind by the F-14 and A-6, or be stuck with old, limited, ancient airframes unable to complete the Navy's objectives. You may or may not agree with the F-18E/F airframes, but the fact is that's pretty much all they had to choose from at the time. The F-14, for example, never got the capability to use AGM-62, AGM-65, AGM-84, AIM-120, AGM-154, etc. There again - it wasn't designed to do that.

You will NEVER be able to compare the F-14 to ANY other aircraft from here on out; it is simply out of this world. Just like the P-51, Bf-109, F4U, F6F, F-86, MiG-15, SR-71, etc. But ragging on a MiG-21 just because it doesn't turn as well as a MiG-15 is, well, stupid.

MrMojok
08-23-2007, 07:47 PM
If there was a real hope of sales gamewise, I wish someone would do an update of the old Microprose F-14 "Fleet Defender" game. That was a beaut.

huggy87
08-23-2007, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by Shakthamac:
that might have been one of the saddest videos i have ever seen. Its interesting to note that one of the primary reasons for the F14's retirement was the lack of a long range, blue water threat (the soviets), and yet, in the very recent news, I think I have read that Russia is trying to rebuild their navy. Couple that with China's growing military size and we are gonna wish we had an air superiority fighter with the Tomcat's capabilities. Sure the F/A 18E has a better maintenance record than the F14, but (to quote a line from Air and Space) its like comparing a brand new Honda Accord to a classic Corvette.

It just isn't as good, period.

Actually, the FA-18 is much better than the tomcat in everything except acceleration and top speed.

How much time do you have in either jet to make such a claim?

WarWolfe_1
08-23-2007, 08:23 PM
My 5 year old son has a poster of a F-14 on his wall http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

polak5
08-24-2007, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by T_O_A_D:

Dang it looked like a couple of mechanical vultures picking at a Bald Eagles Carcass http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif


couldn't bare to watch it

WarWolfe_1
08-24-2007, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by polak5:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by T_O_A_D:

Dang it looked like a couple of mechanical vultures picking at a Bald Eagles Carcass http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif


couldn't bare to watch it </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your really not missing anything.

flox
08-24-2007, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by T_O_A_D:
Dang it looked like a couple of mechanical vultures picking at a Bald Eagles Carcass http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif


+1, just what I was thinking.

Krt_Bong
08-24-2007, 03:58 PM
Aircraft Technology is only good for so long then something better comes along and it's all relative, the P-51 became available in '43 and was retired by the US Air Force in '56, technology made it obsolete. The A-6 30+ years of service, kids flying the same A/C their fathers flew. The B-52 is Soo old that it will be possible for Grandsons to be flying it well into the next decade. Yes it's sad to see them go, somewhere in the future there may be a restored F-14 at some Airshow just like the occasional Saber, Mig or Starfighter that shows up. Hell there's 2 Migs at my Airport here in Sarasota. Don't grieve that some are being scrapped they're making way for the next generation.

han freak solo
08-24-2007, 07:20 PM
That video is a demonstration of the ultimate anti-aircraft weapon. Imagine the outcome if the Germans had that in WWII? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Bo_Nidle
08-25-2007, 07:43 AM
What a waste!!

If they had rang me I would have popped over and collected it for my back garden.