PDA

View Full Version : Shattered Sword



lkemling
01-26-2006, 05:33 PM
Has anyone purchased this Book' The untold story of the battle of Midway from Japanese point of view.
Absolutly outstanding book,worth every penny.
Was lucky my wife bought this ...with a really strong hint or two from me for Xmas. lol.

lkemling
01-26-2006, 05:33 PM
Has anyone purchased this Book' The untold story of the battle of Midway from Japanese point of view.
Absolutly outstanding book,worth every penny.
Was lucky my wife bought this ...with a really strong hint or two from me for Xmas. lol.

Tater-SW-
01-26-2006, 05:47 PM
Same here, got it for Christmas from the wife (she heard me bitterly complaining that it wasn't shelved properly (I couldn't find it) in Borders and hunted it down).

Excellent book, very well researched. It clobbers many ideas about the battle, particularly those coming from Fuchida's book.

tater

ucanfly
01-26-2006, 08:32 PM
I couldn't put that book down! Very well done.

Nimits
01-26-2006, 11:59 PM
I got it for a Christmas present as well, and have found it absolutely fantastic so far (I had to finish reading William Bartsch's December 8, 1941: MacArthur's Pearl Harbor before I started this one, though, so I'm not very far along.

One thing I am finding fascinating so far is the critiqe of Yamamato. I have long though, based the outcomes of Yamamoto's carrier battles, that he was not quite the super-admiral many have histories implied he was. This book has given considerable professional substance to that opinion.

zoinks_
01-27-2006, 01:38 AM
hola Nimits,
out of all of the eye-openers in this book, that is the one that stands out most for me.

Tater-SW-
01-27-2006, 07:47 AM
LOL, me too, nimits. I have gotten into many knock down drag outs in forums in the past suggesting Yamamoto was a capable, but pretty ordinary Admiral. I also argue that he lost the Japanese any hope of winnign the war (a negotiated peace early in the conflict) at Pearl Harbor. How anyone who had been to the US, and had the (not uncommon in Japan) insights into the stupidity of going to war with us would then design an attack to enrage us to the point were negotiation was not even going to be an option is amazing to me.

tater

No601_prangster
01-27-2006, 09:35 AM
I've read MIDWAY The Japanese Story by Mitsuo Fuchida the senior air wing commander in the Carrier Task Force and Masatake Okimiya who served in the light carrier Ryujo and later served in the Naval General Staff. It has a forward by Admiral Spruance.

Available at Amazon (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0304361542/qid=1138379636/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_0_2/203-3171846-6034300)

Tater-SW-
01-27-2006, 02:52 PM
It turns out that Fuchida's book was debunked by other japanese YEARS ago. Nothign was published widely in english so outside historians took it as gospel. Many things in that book are flat out wrong. He has the IJN CVs with strikes on deck ready to TO when the SBDs hit. The planes were below in the hangers, for example. The SS authors approached a japanese historian very gingerly after their research made it look like Fuchida's book had some errors---not wanting to insult the historian who might have a lot of respect for Fuchida, a war hero. The response was on the order of "Fuchida? That book is trash! No japanese has belived that book since it was printed in the 50s"

Fuchida used to be my "best" source on Midway from the IJN perspective. No longer.. Get Shattered Sword, really.

tater

lkemling
01-27-2006, 06:22 PM
When PF first came out one of the things I noticed and thought wtf with the japanese carrier superstructures their way to small ,was it a screw up in the scale of the model?...nope they were just tiny compared to the american island structure's. from the looks of PF and the information in Shattered Sword some light cuisers must have had better Flag accomodations

GerritJ9
01-29-2006, 03:49 AM
Several of the IJN pilots involved in the attack on PH wanted to attack a second time, but Nagumo decided to return- missing a golden opportunity to wreck the naval base itself. One can hardly fault Yamamoto for this- Nagumo was the man on the spot, Yamamoto was on the other side of the Pacific.

Tater-SW-
01-29-2006, 08:14 AM
Actually, that story also comes from Fuchida and is aparently suspect.

Also, it IS the CIC's fault. He authored the plan. If it didn't contain contingency plans that was HIS fault (Midway didn't, and when the wargames showed problems they were ignored).

My issue with pearl was not the specifics. Yamamoto knew the US. He knew the Japanese war plan for a quick land grab, deally foloowed by a negotiated settlement with the US where they woulld give some grabbed land away and keep the "southern resource area."

Knowing that, he designed a war plan guaranteed to ENRAGE the American public---up until that point pretty isolationist. No possible outcome at PH would have changed the end result of the war. More destruction/loss of life would have only driven us to further rage with the Empire of Japan. The USN ships already being built but not yet launched exceeded the bulk of the IJN capital ships.

The reality for japan was if they didn't WIN within a year or two, they were facing national destruction.

tater

ElAurens
01-29-2006, 09:54 AM
I think Yamamoto knew exactly the outcome.
He gave the Imperial Japanese Army, who were really in control of the government, exactly what they wanted, as war with the US.

He was ordered to draw up plans for a war in the Pacific agianst the US and he delivered.

The army and navy in Imperial Japan absolutely hated each other, moreso than in any other country. Yamamoto cleverly gave the Army more than they could chew.

Tater-SW-
01-29-2006, 12:32 PM
You think he hated the Army so much he'd throw his entire nation into a war that was likely suicidal for the whole NATION?

I thought he was not so great, but certainly not that evil...

tater

Tater-SW-
01-29-2006, 12:35 PM
Actually, one of the best observations made in SS was this (that no one in the IJN ever figured out):

The IJN has exactly two different catagories of targets for the IJN. Those that deserved to be attacked by the entire Kido Butai (6-7 fleet CVs operating as one unit like the PH attack), and targets that deserved to be attacked by NONE of the Kido Butai.

The IJN massed use of CVs was a sea change, and a huge force multiplier. Spending them 2 at a time prematurely destroyed the IJN.

tater